help finding a word!!
Gedding
useless, dont be so lazy and move these boxes".
I replied "look, you can ask me to do things but please dont abuse me
at the same time. Keep the request but cut out the "lazy" and
"useless" shit please."
Not exaclty OFNR, but i understand speech and how people make requests
and how people do not like Jackal judgements to the extent that i was
able to articulate what i wanted and what i did not want precisely.
My boss said ok, and my co-worker, who was watching, was so pissed
off.
She got the same sort of abuse all day, but because she did not
understand why to the extent that i do she was not able to articulate
it in a way that would get her needs met.
She was so angry about this.
Of course i know many (almost all) people who this applys to. And
they struggle with words and thinking like "its about respect", and
"its inappropriate" and other ways of trying to understand their
feelings and needs by universalising them. Using words that say its
ok to feel this way because its a universal rule, to "justify" what
they are feeling and what they are needing.
Here is my question.
What is it called when one understands an idea precisely? So one can
articlate the idea in few words while clearly portraying its meaning?
I ask because there are some NVC related concepts that i am trying to
"get to that point".
I find myself explaining the idea in a very wordy way and using
examples to get the message across.
I would like to know if there is a word that is used to mean
understanding to that point where one does not need examples to
illustrated the meaning.
Does this request make sence?
Niklas Wilkens
in my awareness there is no word in English that would describe exactly what you mean. Also not in German, Dutch or French. I would say that whether you can put exactly your finger on what you mean is dependent on whom you are talking to. I see language as a map for reality. And as there can be many different maps, physical, political, road- or trail-maps, there are also different ways of describing immediate experience. Whether you can use one way of describing it depends on whether the other person can read your map accurately, that is, knows the territory, the immediate experience that you're pointing out. If the territory is not immediately clear, well, you have to use examples to make it real for the other person. I don't see any way around this. It's the problem of telling a blind person what colors are.
At the same time I imagine, that there are experiences which you would at least like to have clear for yourself, in order to navigate your own territory in a better way. And when you have that, it's easier for you to translate your own meaning into different ways of phrasing it, depending on what the other person can understand and has clear for him- or herself. That is of course an art-form since there are as many different maps as there are people - and at the same time there seem to be general patterns of language and representation organized in personality types, levels and lines of development, and perspectives (first, second and third person). I'm investigating this and it's a fascinating endeavour.
Does this put your meaning in words that help you?
Cheers
Niklas
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Doug Johnson
> .
>
Lea
On Sep 29, 11:07 pm, Gedding <three30li...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to know if there is a word that is used to mean
> understanding to that point where one does not need examples to
> illustrated the meaning.
"to grok"
http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/G/grok.html
grok: /grok/, /grohk/, vt.
[common; from the novel Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A.
Heinlein, where it is a Martian word meaning literally ‘to drink’ and
metaphorically ‘to be one with’] The emphatic form is grok in
fullness.
1. To understand. Connotes intimate and exhaustive knowledge. When
you claim to ‘grok’ some knowledge or technique, you are asserting
that you have not merely learned it in a detached instrumental way but
that it has become part of you, part of your identity. For example, to
say that you “know” LISP is simply to assert that you can code in it
if necessary — but to say you “grok” LISP is to claim that you have
deeply entered the world-view and spirit of the language, with the
implication that it has transformed your view of programming. Contrast
zen, which is similar supernal understanding experienced as a single
brief flash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=339
Craig Sones Cornell
grok is a really resonant and cool word for me. The only problem with
it is that it is not very well known. For most people it leads to a
big HUH? But then it is fun to explain to them. Most people do not
experience the thrill of getting it with their whole mind, body,
heart, and soul. A huge aha so to speak. It opens horrizons and heart
space.
I am also delighted to have you back because I treasure our moments of
what was for me deep written connection.
Groking groking, Craig
Gedding
" To understand. Connotes intimate and exhaustive knowledge. When
you claim to ‘grok’ some knowledge or technique, you are asserting
that you have not merely learned it in a detached instrumental way
but
that it has become part of you, part of your identity."
Like i might understand communism to the point of being able to
explain it concicely and precicely with few words, but not be a
communist.
It looks like Grok is a word with slightly different meaning to what i
am looking for.
Another difference is that one can Grok christanity, have it as a
world view and as part of one's identity, yet not understand it to the
level that one can explain it precicely and accurately.
Help?
Susan L
a concept "chair" that allows me to recognize new instances of chairs
without reviewing their characteristics. In fact, if we look at the
diverse styles of chairs, it would be difficult to list
characteristics that all chairs share. However, the concept "chair"
is not a part of my identity.
It would provide focus and meaning for this discussion as well as meet
my needs for transparency and authenticity if you would provide the
context for which you are seeking this as-yet-unknown word.
Gedding
well the context is that i can "insert word" the ideas of requests and
needs, so i can articulate and use the idea easily and consicely.
But i do not yet "insert word" the ideas around mixing games and being
a different person in each moment, so i use examples and long
explations to explain the idea to others.
I like your chair example, i think we are getting close, conceptualise
does not quite seem right.