Issue 71 in nullpomino: Garbage in 6P with fractional garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too clean

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Status: Accepted
Owner: ----
Labels: Type-Defect Priority-Medium

New issue 71 by w.kowa...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with fractional garbage
and hole change rate divided by number of players is too clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

why it is too clean?

i just realized there is some flaw here. for example in 6 players room if
there is one garbage line added which is result or 5 people doing double
(sending 1 line) it will change hole with probability:
change-hole-rate / 5
but as this is result of 5 attacks it should have 5 chances to break, so
actually correct probability should be in this case:
1 - (1-change-hole-rate) ^ 5

anyway calcScore function is bit messy, so somebody should review it and
refactor if possible.

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Comment #1 on issue 71 by w.kowa...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with

fractional garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too
clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

thre is mistake in formula, it should say:
1 - (1-change-hole-rate/5) ^ 5

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Comment #2 on issue 71 by w.kowa...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with

fractional garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too
clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

ok, sorry some people don't understand me.

we are talking about change hole per attack fractional grabage. we want it
to be like 1on1 garbage, so total number of hole changes should be divided
by number of players -1.

but currently number of hole changes is based on number of fractional
garbage adds not number of attack and its not always same.

consider example

6 players all do 5 doubles, each player will get 5*5 1/5th of garbage
lines, but it will result in 5 lines of garbage added with 1 hole change
but we want to have actually have 5 hole changes here.

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Comment #3 on issue 71 by w.kowa...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with

fractional garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too
clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

another thing is of course maybe instead of changing hole change
probability we should just apply hole change every nth garbage entry. i
think it was suggested already.

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Comment #4 on issue 71 by Zirc...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with fractional

garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

In your formula:

1 - (1 - (changerate/5))^5

the two 5s are separate, right? One represents the garbage entries in that
one line, and one represents the number of other players? Or do I have it
wrong...

Hole change rate every few entries sounds like a good way to do it, we'll
have to try that and see.

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Comment #5 on issue 71 by w.kowa...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with

fractional garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too
clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

yes, you got it right.

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Comment #6 on issue 71 by ncann...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with fractional

garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

Wojtek and I chatted about this today. I definitely agree that his method
is more accurate than the current system. I'll go ahead and post the idea
we were talking about.

Imagine we have a 5 player game. All of my opponents send me a triple (two
garbage lines) each. Under fractional rules, I'll receive a total of two
garbage rows. Let's repeat this three more times. I receive eight lines in
total.

Now, the goal is to make this garbage look like the garbage I would've
received in a 1v1 game. The analogous 1v1 game in this case would be one
opponent sending four triples. 2-2-2-2 type garbage messiness.

The conclusion we came to is that under the current circumstances, the game
will produce 4-4 type garbage. But with his revision, it's much more like
2-2-2-2.

That's my two cents.

[nullp...@googlecode.com]

Updates:
Status: Invalid

Comment #7 on issue 71 by w.kowa...@gmail.com: Garbage in 6P with

fractional garbage and hole change rate divided by number of players is too
clean
http://code.google.com/p/nullpomino/issues/detail?id=71

I really don't know how fractional garbage with change hole per attack
should work. Current divide hole rate by number of players is not what we
want. It's really hard to make it right, so i close this issue for now.