Bolts

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "nuwazish nariman patel"
<Nuwazish_Patel@r...> wrote:

Hi all,

Just some update... sorry,,, it again about bolts and drills..

I talked to Tim... the owner of the 'climbing store' and explained him
about the problem , that in India we get Rawl punches and the SDS will
not fit in them , He said that he will ask people about this.

Also I told him that i wanted good , cheap SS fixe bolts... and I
showed him the deal on net and asked him whether he could order them
and get some more discount.... I met him at the rock gym yesterday and
he told me that he would get a discount from the fixe guys and so the
bolt would cost me around 2.85 $ per piece with hanger. That makes it
120 Rs per bolt... thats a good price.
This is the INOX Stainless steel , 3/8 inch * 2 1/4 inch one , with ss
hanger. (on net it is for 3.75 $ )

Also he showed me a real good Blue water rope :
70 Meters , 10.5 mm , Double dry. The name is Blue water
accelerator... and he offered it for 160 $ . What say ? Does this seem
to be a good deal ?

Last week I did contact the fixe guys asking them if the drill bit
holder would accept Rawl bits... They said mostly they will not work well.
Also I asked if i were to buy the SDS bits how long do they normally
last while hand drilling. He said that under normal situations the SDS
bits last for 10 holes or so... then the drill bit dulls out.

So thats it , Let me know what you feel about the rope and the bolts.
The only concern I have with the bolts is that they are 3/8 inch thick
, that is almost 9.5 mm. Now I am not sure if we will get a 9.5 mm
drill bit in Mumbai easily.... Though i feel that if I go to Lohar
chawl I should be able to get them.. but not sure.. What say guys,,
should I buy these bolts , any ideas??

So thats it for now.

Regards,
Nuwazish.
--- End forwarded message ---

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "BENJAMIN DESOUZA"
<benji_india@h...> wrote:
THE fixi bolt @ $2.85 is a good price. However who will bear the cost
of the
same. Bolts are not like personal carabiners, rope etc which you keep
with
you. bolts u leave at the site, so ownership becomes an issue and u
cannot
say that no one else should use your bolts at a specific site.
The rope @ $160 is VERY EXPENSIVE, our edelyse 60mtr, 10.5 dia cost
$100/-.
I think it is the dry treatment that inflates the cost which is not
needed
for climbing in the sahayadris.
Benji

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "nuwazish nariman patel"
<Nuwazish_Patel@r...> wrote:

Hi Fulton,

The dry ropes have better handling , less kinks etc , but I dont
remember having read anywhere that dry ropes have more elongation or
shock absorbing capacities , actually its just a coating on the
sheath. This particular coating is also available to apply to dry
ropes that have been used too much and the original dry treatment is
lost. I will put in some thought before buying anything ..... Rather I
would like a standard rope of 70 mts , 10.5 mm and should cost around
120 $ or so(if 60 mtr s cost 100$ as benji says) . Will keep on a
lookout for such a rope.

And Let me clear this, I will be getting the rope , drill punch ,
drills , bolts as personal equipment for me. Ofcourse the stuff can be
used by all when required.

Thanks and Regards,
Nuwazish.

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "nuwazish nariman patel"
<Nuwazish_Patel@r...> wrote:

Oh Sorry,
you are right Fulton. I misunderstood...

Anyways , normally i have observed that the thicker dynamic ropes have
greater UIAA falls... but higher impact force too , and less dynamic
elongation , but are long lasting
11 mm Enduro = 16 uiaa falls , 8.8 kn impact force
10.5 mm accelerator = 11 uiaa falls , 8.5 kn impact force
9.7 mm lightning pro = 10 uiaa falls , 8.4 kn impact force
9.4 mm dominator = 7 uiaa falls , 8.29 kn impact force

What this means is that the 11 mm enduro will hold atleast 16 fall
factor 2 ,and whatever fall you take on the rope the force on the
rope(ie climber) will never exceed 8.8 kn ... 880 kgs. Of cource the
force on the anchor will be much more ...theoritically double.

The thinner ropes have good stretch and hence absorb more shock , thus
lower impact force , but since they have less fibers they can handle
less uiaa falls and also will wear sooner than the beefier ropes...
Also since the thinner ropes stretch more hence absorbing the impact ,
means that the lenght of the fall is going to be more.. potential of
hitting some ledge etc..

So I guess I should aim for a thick rope... atleast 10.5 mm.

Anyways ,that was all just some useless gyaan,,,, for our purpose any
good UIAA certified rope should do since its very rare that we take a
lead fall.

About the drills , I will not buy any as of now.

Also while going thru some rock climbing info found 2 interesting things:
1. SCC - stress corrosion cracking - which happens in metals , also
Stainless steel , near sea cliffs. The salt water spray which has some
chemical reactions with the bolt and is accelerated when the metal is
under high stress(Which is there is case of bolts ).
I read of cases that some bolt hangers and bolts simply broke under
body weight after just 18 months...and some accidents did happen at
some sea cliff(people did die) and when investigated it was found that
the metal had microscopic cracks due to SCC. the people climbing at
these sea clifs are now looking at titanuim bolts with help from the
bolt manufacturers.
We should be very careful while using the bolts at the top of Central
piller at Manori, since these are some homemade hangers and I even
doubt if they are Stainless steel.
Anyways at manori we always use the huge boulders as backup so it
should be fine,,, but the bolts alone should not be trusted.

2. HHS - Harness HAng Syndrome- It is a fact that a climber after
taking a fall if is unconcious then he must be quickly taken off the
face since the Harness hang syndrome sets in... ie the blood supply to
the legs stop due to the harness strap pressure and after 10 mins or
so the tissues die... and when the stuff is introduced into the blood
stream ,. it is too toxic and people die...
This normally happens to cavers who rappel down and due to some reason
are stuck for too long, and then if they hang around in the harness
for too long without keeping the feet in constant motion, they are at
risk of HHS , and many cavers had mysteriously died this way.

Thats it for now.

Bye
Nuwazish.










On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 Fulton Nazareth wrote :
>Nova,
>What I meant was that different ropes have different degrees of
elongation, breaking strength, etc, you have to know the finer details
before taking a decision. Ropes of similar diameter will have
different properties, I remember reading this sometime back when we
were planning on buying a rope. Well I'm sure you'll take the right
decision.
>I'll try and get more info on the drills, etc, so keep that on hold
as of now.
>Fulton.

> >On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 Fulton Nazareth wrote :
> > > Yes Benji is right we don't need a wet rope. There may be other
considerations of the rope though like elasticity, etc.
> > >About the bolts I think that members of the group who are willing
to chip in should say just that, I for one am willing to contribute Rs
500 - 800 towards the rope, drills, holder and bolts. The place where
they will be used can be mutually decided.
> > >Fulton.
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 nuwazish nariman patel wrote :
> > > >
> > > >Hi Benji,
> > > >
> > > >You are right about the rope.It is costly , but I was impressed
by the double dry and 70 mtr thing... anyways I will do lot of
thinking before buying.MAybe as u say we do not need the double dry...
> > > >
> > > >About any equipment I get(including bolts , drills , rope) I do
not expect you all to chip in.
> > > >
> > > >Fulton , I do not have the address of the shop at Lohar chawl ,
I had been there for the whole day searching for the shop that sells
drill bits... and after a lot of asking around someone guided me to a
shop that sells good drill bits. The golden plated drill bits that i
have (10 mm ones) were from there and they last long, The normal black
coloured ones dull out within a few holes ... I have done lots of
drilling with the golden coloured one and its definately better , a
bit costly though ,, 50 rs per drill bit .. for 10 mm one.Also the
golden ones are not very sharp , but they are consistent for a long
time... the black ones are sharp and the first hole u drill will be
real nice after 2 more and you just need to throw them.. simply unusable.
> > > >If you don't know where lohar chawl is , ask Zenosh... he also
does not know it but he can ask my dad and tell you the details... but
as far as I know there are very few places other than Lohar chawl
where you will get rawl drill bits greater than 6 mm dia.. (smaller
ones are easily available). One place I go to buy drill bits is a
small hardware store near the railway tracks (between Andheri and
Jogeshwari)... I dont know the exact name , but that person also sells
drill bits , but does not keep the golden ones (he can order them
though... )
> > > >But in any case if at all you go searching for 3/8 inch drill
bits take a vernier calliper along and see that it is 9.5 mm approx.
> > > >(3/8 in = 9.525 mm.) 9.4 mm would also do , but more than 9.6
mm would not be nice. Since while placing the bolt it should not slide
in the hole by hand pressure , it should need to be hammered in
lightly , otherwise it is not a good placement. If the drill bit is
9.6 mm , then the hole could be 9.65 or something and then it would be
a loose placement.
> > > >
> > > >Also I was wondering if we could find SDS bits at Lohar chawl,
you could take a printout along(of the drill bit as on net ) and see
if they are available.
> > > >
> > > >Else i thinkg I could buy the Fixe had driller and a few fixe
drill bits for now, and before the drill bits wear out search for a
source of SDS bits in Mumbai. Also I know that there is a Bosch outlet
at Marine lines.They might be keeping the SDS bits since all their
drill machines use SDS.
> > > >
> > > >So thats it,
> > > >Bye

> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 BENJAMIN DESOUZA wrote :
> > > > >
> > > > >THE fixi bolt @ $2.85 is a good price. However who will bear
the cost of the
> > > > >same. Bolts are not like personal carabiners, rope etc which
you keep with
> > > > >you. bolts u leave at the site, so ownership becomes an issue
and u cannot
> > > > >say that no one else should use your bolts at a specific site.
> > > > >The rope @ $160 is VERY EXPENSIVE, our edelyse 60mtr, 10.5
dia cost $100/-.
> > > > >I think it is the dry treatment that inflates the cost which
is not needed
> > > > >for climbing in the sahayadris.
> > > > >Benji
> > > > >

> > > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > >Send money to India
> > > >
>http://ads.mediaturf.net/event.ng/Type=click&FlightID=17307&AdID=44925&TargetID=9763&Targets=9763&Values=414,868,1093,2385&Redirect=http:%2F%2Fwww.icicibanknripromotions.com%2Fm2i_feb%2Fnri_M2I_feb.jsp%3Fadid%3D44925%26siteid%3D1093%26flightid%3D17307
> > > > >Get a FREE 30 minute India Calling Card.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >To Post a message, send it to: nangaparbat@e...
> > > > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
nangaparbat-unsubscribe@e...
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links