Equipment

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "nuwazish nariman patel"
<Nuwazish_Patel@r...> wrote:

Hi all,
Too much discussion happening around Monks... :-)

Anyways, here is a very long and a uninteresting mail about bolts
drills etc that i am plnning to buy...

I am writing this mail because, while coming back to India (I m not
sure when), I am planning to get along some good climbing equipment
which will be useful to us in our future climbs.

I did a lot of thinking of the stuff we need and is not easily
available in India(especially good bolts and hangers), and thus
arrived upon the following.
But before that a few things,
First, about a battery operated Drill Machine… like the Bosch
Annihilator (Which is the best one available) costs above 550 $ . Now
what I feel is that if it was a one time investment it was fine… but I
am worried about the battery life. As far as my knowledge goes the
batteries would not last more than 2 years… (and the battery costs 250
$ ) --- Also If there is some mechanical problem I am not sure whether
it can be repaired at nominal cost. So I feel it is not the right
thing to buy it. That day while in a store I saw a battery operated
drill machine for 100 $ … was same as the annihilator , but 6 volts.
Now I did some reading and seems these wont even be able to drill in
rock since the battry will drain out. Hey Benji , I remember you
mentioned once that someone told you that a battery operated drill
costs around 2000 rs … It will be such low powered ones… good for wood
, maybe bricks , walls etc… not hard rock…
I also tried to find out the gas powered drillers.. these are a bit
heavy and are powered by a small 2 stroke petrol engine… but now the
company has stopped its production… This would be a good one for us..
no battery , low maintenance … just very noisy though.. but guess it
will not be easy to get one.

OK so this means we have to do with hand drilling. Also the routes we
do are kind of traditional routes.. not fit for carrying a huge drill
machine on lead… (I got a book `big walls by john long' and according
to the author , here too the traditional first ascents are done by
hand drill.. but the practice followed is that during first ascents ,
drill in small bolts , like the ones we use , and finish the route..
then come back and replace the anchor bolts with good ones..)

Anyways , a few interesting things about bolting I read in the book are…
- John Long too suggests using the Rawl drill system (the one we use
in India) , because it is cheap…. The SDS system is costly and I am
not sure if we get SDS drills in India. ( I was surprised to see the
same punch and drill shown in the book.. the one I buy for rs 50 from
the hardware store)
- Also he suggests that normal Masonry high speed steel bits can also
be used by grinding the straight shanks and make them tapered so that
they fit in the Rawl drill punch . These bits are costly but available
at any hardware shop…)
- The bolts that we use 8mm ones , are for aid , but are definitely
superior to the 6mm button head compression bolts used for aid here…
these button head bolts are only for aid and first ascents…. Which
might hold a short fall , when new.

Why I am looking at all this in detail is that I want to buy a good
hand drill but all the Pika , Petzl ones are for SDS drill bits . So
they will not accept the normal tapered shank drill bits we get for
30-40 rs in India. Ok … I can get along 3 or 4 SDS drill bits of 10mm
or 8 mm etc… but the are not going to last forever and we will need to
get SDS bits from somewhere once they are blunted.(the SDS drill bits
cost 10 $ for cheapest ones and good Hilti ones cost 40 $ a piece)

So I need to know whether SDS bits will be easily available in Mumbai
or not?
Hey Fulton , you have a drill . I guess it is also for Rawl bits
right? I remember using it at NA and the drill bits we used was the
rawl one (with tapered shanks) … so it seems you have bought this one
long back when the rawl system was widely used.
By the way when I say tapered shank I mean the end which goes into the
drill holder is tapered… like the ones we get at Lohar chawl… and I
have been using. The SDS ones mean the slotted drive shaft… the drive
shaft . ie the end that goes into the drill machine or the hand drill
punch , has slots in it which match up with the drill machine for a
proper fit.

However here the rawl system is long gone , I found a company called
as FISH which had some tapered CARBIDE TIPPED rawl drill bits(which
can fit in our rawl punch) , but they say all are over and now are not
manufactured.
So that's It about drilling , please try to find about the SDS bits
availability in Mumbai.

So here goes the list of things I am planning to get back:
1. Pika drill or petzl drill (if I am sure SDS bits are available in
Mumbai… . else we will have to continue with the old Rawl drill system
(we could improvise it by making a rubber holder… I did find some web
site selling rubber grips for the Rawl drill punch… so maybe I can get
one)
2. Petzl long life bolts with hanger (4 nos)
3. Petzl Coeur Goujon with hanger (10 mm * 55 mm …. 4 nos) see Petzl
site for details… www.petzl.com …. The petzl coeur goujon has long
threads so that we can drill a shorter hole if need be and still
install it… and the petzl bolts are the BEST…. The long life is said
the be the strongest bolt on market.. in the tests hangers broke
before the bolt… Real strong bolts in case of top rope routes , where
we want reliable stuff., and people are gonna take many falls.
4. Fixe Power stud wedge bolts with hanger (3/8 inch..ie 9mm * 2. 1/4
inch … 10 nos in Stainless steel)… These are exactly the same ones as
we installed at the top of Ladies route at GT…
http://www.fixeusa.com/powerstud.htm .... has the details for this
bolts… It is nothing but cheaper version of Petzl coeur goujon.. but
the INOX ones are stainless steel and 3.75 $ each .. hanger included.
The plated ones are available for 2.5 $ (with hanger…)
5. daisy chain (for aiding, is a webbing with loops all over so that
you can adjust the clip point… remember we use 2 different length
slings so that we can adjust the reach while aiding… this can make
aiding a bit easy)
6. etreas
7. cordalette loops (Spectra loops for creating anchors… 10 ft , 15 ft
etc)
8. belay chair… similar to a portaledge , but you cannot sleep in it
but sit comfortably.
9. haul bag – (not sure if we might need this but sometimes we do haul
equipment etc in small shoulder bags … )
10. Sky hooks , to aid when nothing but thin ledges are available.
11. SDS carbide tipped drill bits from Fixe (8mm , 10mm , 12 mm and
3/8 inch )
12. RURP's for thin vertical cracks

We have enough stoppers , hexes and pitons… so I don't see any need to
buy such things. Also the climbing store sells good blue water ropes
and I am tempted to buy them, lets see if i save enough so that i can
buy it too.

The above list I am going to give to the climbing store and I will see
what price he offers for each item….

Please tell me if you ll feel anything else could be useful.
Balram you were asking about a crash pad… I see many of them lying
around in the gym, but the problem I see is in getting them back… may
be charged as excess baggage.

I liked the powerstud bolts especially they cost 4 $ each (3.75 to be
exact… with hanger and are Stainless steel … 4 * 43 = 172 rs per bolt
with hangar)Also these re 3/8 inch .. round 9.5 mm so thinner and
since have long threads cn be installed in shallow hole too…. The
petzl long life and Coeur goujon will cost around 400 rs each with
hanger…

So if you feel that more numbers are required or I have missed
something let me know.

So that's it.
Bye all,
Enjoy climbing.




On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 warrierbalram wrote :
>
>
>
>Hi Guys....
>
>This is getting hillarious....I have heard of a crappy book called..
>" The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari.." ( he would have been one big nut,
>to do that; with the F1 season in full swing...)
>
>But talking of Monks Carrying Lasses.... Aiyoo..Can't quite make
>sense; inspite of the Communist Bastards taking over Tibet & Dalai
>Lama giving up on his dream of free Tibet.
>Unless, this happens to be some new technique to overcome all those
>yrs of celebacy!! Phew...
>
>With Monks..these days....u never know.... Balbir Pasha..and Baba
>Bengali..too were monks!! weren't they ???
>
>Any ways... Benji,Ritz..looks like u monks will have u'r shoulders
>fully loaded ..ferrying lasses up & down the caves.... especialy
>during the monsoons; when the Park gets flooded. Hey Ritz...now that
>would be one extreme training program before u'r BASIC sojourn...for u
>will miss them for one whole month, during the course. Whata boy..time
>to put those muscles to good use!!
>
>All the best.... Start pumping iron & may those shoulders
Bloom....with ??
>
>Adios.
>
>ps... U mighty monks might drive SGNP bus service fellows out of
>business.... But need some clarification
>1)would it be a free service...
>2)any subsidies for E&A ..ites..else u might have to face the might of
>the President.
>
>In case u guys need help... I don't mind being the Ticket Checker!!!
>After all, it is for a worthy cause...Ain't it guys...
>Tan Ki shakti..Man Ki Shakti... Bournvita Lage Rahooooooooo......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to: nangaparbat@e...
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: nangaparbat-unsubscribe@e...
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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>
--- End forwarded message ---

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "nuwazish nariman patel"
<Nuwazish_Patel@r...> wrote:

Hi Benji,
I agree to what u say,,, i.e not to go for brand name in case of
bolts... That is why i liked the fixe powerstud bolts .. are not too
expensive...
But man, I can't resist getting back some PETZL bolts... will get just
a few of them though.

And about SDS... ok .. just go to this page:
http://www.fixeusa.com/bits.htm
The image here is a SDS drill bit.. Notice that the end that will fit
into the punch or drill machine is straight, not just straight , it
also has a slot at the end , This is called SDS - slotted drive
shaft... Now if you have any one of the bits that I buy from Lohar
chawl... you will notice that the end is tapered , a bit conical..
(the end that fits into the punch)... So the bits we used are called
tapered shank drill bits... or RAWL...
The other ones are the normal drill bits we get in the market for the
standard drill machines... the ends of these drills are not tapered
(are straight) and do not have any slots too... I have many such at
home and they are easily available at hardware stores in 8 , 9 ,10 ,12
mm etc... Now what I read in the book 'Big wall climbing' is that the
author suggests the use of the straight shank bolts.. the last one i
described.. and since they will not fit into the Rawl punch.. grind
them a little at the end to create a taper so that it fits into the
Rawl punch...
This idea I liked very much . And i will definately try this ,, whren
i m back.

Hope this made things a bit clear.

I will talk to the person at the climbing store and try find out more.

HEy Piran, so finally u did the 120 ... cool. Anyways that was
expected from u .. keep it up.

So thats it,
bye

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "BENJAMIN DESOUZA"
<benji_india@h...> wrote:
Ok Nova, I see the image at the website, however this seems to be a
bit that
needs a drill machine to make the hole.
I dont think this can be used in a punch and wacked with a hammer.
Also the Fixi Carbide Drill bit price ranges from $7.35 to $19.00, so
even
if I take the lowest price it will mean Rs320/-. Now I dont see any
justification here, since our indian drill bits cost what Rs30/- (max)
and I
know that carbide drill bits can also break.So I am not in favour of
going
for a SDS carbide drill bit.
I guess if this is going to be used in your house under steady
environment,
it may last till you are old, however given the environment and
conditions
under which we handle equipment and drill holes in rocks, the Rs320/-
drill
bit coule just break during the second punching session.
Benji

[warrierbalram]

--- In nanga...@yahoogroups.com, "nuwazish nariman patel"
<Nuwazish_Patel@r...> wrote:

Hey Benji,
Also see the technical spec document for the petzl rocpec drilleer..
It uses the same SDS bits,,,

http://www.petzl.com/ProduitsServices/PS_371_1.pdf

Regards,
Nuwazish