Re: Manually doing what Yast does when installing/updating programs
John
John wrote:
> OS: SuSE Linux Professional 2.0
>
> The biggest problem I've had with SuSE and other Linux distributions is
> "breaking" the distribution when I install or update a program manually
> using RPM.
>
> For example, YOU in SLP9.2 does not offer the latest update of JRE (Java
> Runtime Environment), Gaim, OpenOffice, Mozilla Suite, etc.
>
> In the past, when I tried to update programs manually, I "broke" the
> distribution and ended up wiping the drive and starting over.
>
> By "broke," I mean one or all of the following:
>
> 1. The program's RPM didn't install the app where SuSE expected it to be,
> thereby breaking the app from working properly. Where SuSE puts apps is
> not always according to the Linux standard, so where is this documented?
> Red Hat 9 included clear documentation of where everything was installed.
>
> 2. YOU didn't know the new or updated program was installed, so using YOU
> to keep it updated was out of the question. By installing manually, I
> assumed the ongoing maintenance of the app. SO, I have to choose between
> being up-to-date by maintaining manually, or living with the latest
> versions YOU offers.
>
> If I knew what YOU was doing, perhaps I could install the app or its
> update in such a way, that YOU would know the app/update exists and YOU
> would maintain future updates for me.
>
> RPM certainly doesn't run the SuSEconfig that I see executed as the last
> step of every install and update.
>
> Can anyone tell me exactly what YOU is doing? What script or scripts it
> uses and programs it runs? If all this is already documented, I haven't
> found it, so please tell me where that documentation can be found.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
--
John
penguin_powered2004<AT>yahoo<DOT>com
John
Kevin Nathan
John <penguin_p...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For example, YOU in SLP9.2 does not offer the latest update of JRE
> (Java Runtime Environment), Gaim, OpenOffice, Mozilla Suite, etc.
>
Look in the 'projects' directory on the FTP site (use a mirror rather
than SUSE's FTP site itself):
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.com/projects/
and usr-local-bin (for GNOME stuff built for SUSE):
http://www.usr-local-bin.org/linux.php
and packman:
http://packman.links2linux.org/
among many others.
Things like OpenOffice.org have SUSE compatible RPMs right on their
site.
> In the past, when I tried to update programs manually, I "broke" the
> distribution and ended up wiping the drive and starting over.
>
That is *far* too drastic! Simply remove it with:
rpm -e nameOfPackage
and re-install the SUSE version.
> By "broke," I mean one or all of the following:
>
> 1. The program's RPM didn't install the app where SuSE expected it to
> be, thereby breaking the app from working properly. Where SuSE puts
> apps is not always according to the Linux standard, so where is this
> documented? Red Hat 9 included clear documentation of where
> everything was installed.
>
*Every* RPM includes this information. Take the SUSE-specific RPM (even
if it's an older version) and do:
rpm -qpil packageName-x.y-z.i386.rpm
which will show you all the files and where they go. If you want to
modify a non-SUSE RPM get the .src.rpm file, edit the .spec file and
rebuild the RPM. See:
man rpm
man rpmbuild
> 2. YOU didn't know the new or updated program was installed, so using
> YOU to keep it updated was out of the question.
I've not seen this problem and I install RPMs without YaST quite
frequently. The ones I install show up in YOU, but won't be updated
until the YOU version is higher than the one I installed. This is
correct behavior. If a newer version is installed, YOU should *not*
mess with it . . .
> By installing manually, I assumed the ongoing maintenance of the app.
> SO, I have to choose between being up-to-date by maintaining
> manually, or living with the latest versions YOU offers.
>
True, in any distro. Once YOU has a newer version, it will update it.
> If I knew what YOU was doing, perhaps I could install the app or its
> update in such a way, that YOU would know the app/update exists and
> YOU would maintain future updates for me.
>
The only real difference, effectively, is running SuSEconfig after the
RPM install, which is easily done by hand. However, YOU *cannot* update
it if it's newer than YOU's version.
For example, if YOU has 'package-1.0.1' and you manually install
'package-1.2.0', YOU had *better not* update it to 'package-1.1.0'! I
just don't understand your problem here, I guess. If you manually
update an RPM in Red Hat (Fedora), how can they maintain that for you
if they do *not* have a newer version released yet?
> RPM certainly doesn't run the SuSEconfig that I see executed as the
> last step of every install and update.
>
Run it yourself (as root, of course).
> Can anyone tell me exactly what YOU is doing? What script or scripts
> it uses and programs it runs? If all this is already documented, I
> haven't found it, so please tell me where that documentation can be
> found.
>
I've never really looked into it. If you can't find the answers under:
/usr/share/doc/packages/yast2*
and the Admin Guide and such, you could always install the source and
go through it. :-)
--
Kevin Nathan (Arizona, USA)
Linux Potpourri and a.o.l.s. FAQ -- http://www.project54.com/linux/
Open standards. Open source. Open minds.
The command line is the front line.
Linux 2.6.8-24.16-default
11:01pm up 3 days 1:23, 12 users, load average: 0.09, 0.16, 0.11
baskitcaise
post:
> OS: SuSE Linux Professional 2.0
>
> The biggest problem I've had with SuSE and other Linux distributions
> is "breaking" the distribution when I install or update a program
> manually using RPM.
>
> For example, YOU in SLP9.2 does not offer the latest update of JRE
> (Java Runtime Environment), Gaim, OpenOffice, Mozilla Suite, etc.
You will only offer security updates and bug fixes, now sometimes these
do have backported updates but keep the version numbers so as to keep
the distro in sync.
>
> In the past, when I tried to update programs manually, I "broke" the
> distribution and ended up wiping the drive and starting over.
>
> By "broke," I mean one or all of the following:
>
> 1. The program's RPM didn't install the app where SuSE expected it to
> be, thereby breaking the app from working properly. Where SuSE puts
> apps is not always according to the Linux standard, so where is this
> documented? Red Hat 9 included clear documentation of where everything
> was installed.
If you install an RPM that is not compiled specifically for the Suse
version you are using then you are stepping outside of the distro and
you take it on your own head to maintain it then.
>
> 2. YOU didn't know the new or updated program was installed, so using
> YOU to keep it updated was out of the question. By installing
> manually, I assumed the ongoing maintenance of the app. SO, I have to
> choose between being up-to-date by maintaining manually, or living
> with the latest versions YOU offers.
exactly, if you want the latest then you have to upgrade the distro
version or maintain yourself.
>
> If I knew what YOU was doing, perhaps I could install the app or its
> update in such a way, that YOU would know the app/update exists and
> YOU would maintain future updates for me.
>
> RPM certainly doesn't run the SuSEconfig that I see executed as the
> last step of every install and update.
if you use rpm to install then you always have to sun SuSEconfig
afterwards manually to ensure the info is updated in the db, this is
the way it has always been.
>
> Can anyone tell me exactly what YOU is doing? What script or scripts
> it uses and programs it runs? If all this is already documented, I
> haven't found it, so please tell me where that documentation can be
> found.
If you install the devel packages for Yast you get documentation and
more, you could even install the source code and read that as well to
get the general gist of what it does.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
HTH
--
Mark
Novell Support Forums SysOp
Twixt hill and high water
N. Wales, UK.
Skype <my nick> text only please
John
baskitcaise wrote:
--
John
John
Kevin Nathan wrote:
--
Chuck Davis
One of the frustrating "features" of the distributions is that they don't
put things where the project thinks they should go. SUSE is by no means
the only one that "breaks" continuity with a project.
To install your updates outside of YOU you'll have to plan on doing manual
work to get icons on your desktop, write scripts to run them, etc.
Otherwise, why buy a new version of the distro?
Chuck Davis