NCL 2.0sp1 vs NCL2.0sp2
Ron Neilly
Confused again by apparent contradictory releases....
On Novell's BETA downloads page we have "NCL 2.0 sp1 - Public Beta" which
has three sub-catagories:
1. OpenSUSE 10.3, released June 2008
2. OpenSUSE 11, released Oct 2008
3. SLED 11/OpenSUSE 11.1, released Jan 2009
Now for the confusing bit....
Just posted today is the NCL 2.0 sp2 for SLED 11.
What? First of all the sp1 is still listed as being in beta, second SLED 11
is not available - though it must be close, third there was no public beta
for this so called NCL 2.0 sp2.
This looks rather backwards and unprofessional.
So does this mean that this sp2 is going to be released for the prior
versions of SLED and the various versions of OpenSUSE? Or is the public
beta of sp1 going to be released instead? Will there be a public beta of
sp2 for the SLED 10/OpenSUSE products?
And what are the differences between sp1 and sp2? I tried to get to the
readme for this client but the link results in an http error 404. Of course
since this is Novell I am not surprised - they often suffer from premature
releaseification :-). I'm sure that the missing readme will show up in a
few hours.
Cheers,
Ron
Joseph Marton
> What? First of all the sp1 is still listed as being in beta, second SLED
> 11 is not available - though it must be close, third there was no public
> beta for this so called NCL 2.0 sp2.
First, the sp1/sp2 is just some bad versioning... forgot about sp1 now
that sp2 is out. Second, SLED 11 *is* available. It was released today
and is available at download.novell.com. Third, yes there was no public
beta called SP2 but AFAIK the public beta of SP1 is what you're now
finally seeing released as SP2. It should have been called SP2 all
along, really, since there already was an SP1 that had been released.
The public beta was an "updated" SP1.
> So does this mean that this sp2 is going to be released for the prior
> versions of SLED and the various versions of OpenSUSE?
Probably not for prior versions, but I would imagine it will be released
for openSUSE 11.1. I'll verify.
--
Joe Marton
Novell Knowledge Partner
Your Linux is ready.
Ron Neilly
> First, the sp1/sp2 is just some bad versioning...
You are so right ;-)
> Second, SLED 11 *is* available. It was released today
> and is available at download.novell.com.
Ah. Of course I found this out after my post. BTW it is not actually on the
front page of download.novell.com - I had to use the search for updates in
last 10 days to find it. I'm sure that will be changed shortly - like right
after I hit submit on this reply ;-)
> Third, yes there was no public
> beta called SP2 but AFAIK the public beta of SP1 is what you're now
> finally seeing released as SP2. It should have been called SP2 all
> along, really, since there already was an SP1 that had been released.
> The public beta was an "updated" SP1.
>
>> So does this mean that this sp2 is going to be released for the prior
>> versions of SLED and the various versions of OpenSUSE?
>
> Probably not for prior versions, but I would imagine it will be released
> for openSUSE 11.1. I'll verify.
I hope you are wrong since the sp1 that you say is really sp2 is in beta
for OpenSUSE 10.3, OpenSUSE 11, OpenSUSE 11.1. Normally one expects a beta
to turn into an actual released product - well unless it is a Google
product.
What this really looks like to me is that Novell releases an official,
non-beta, client for the SLED platform. Such as NCL 2.0 sp1 for SLED 10 sp2
or NCL 2.0 sp2 for SLED 11. Then they release this client as a
so-called 'beta' for the OpenSUSE platform. This beta client seems to
remain in perpetual beta. So I expect that we will eventually see NCL 2.0
sp2 beta for some versions of OpenSUSE. Considering that the NCL 2.0 sp1
beta for OpenSUSE 10.3 has been in beta since June 2008 - 9 months - I
don't expect to ever see anything but beta clients for the OpenSUSE
distributions.
Cheers,
Ron
PS. IMHO :-)
Joseph Marton
> Ah. Of course I found this out after my post. BTW it is not actually on
> the front page of download.novell.com - I had to use the search for
> updates in last 10 days to find it. I'm sure that will be changed
> shortly - like right after I hit submit on this reply ;-)
If you just select "SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop" for the product,
SLED11 will be the first link. Or you can go to novell.com/linux and
read all about SLED11.
> What this really looks like to me is that Novell releases an official,
> non-beta, client for the SLED platform.
If you look, though, you can find older non-beta released of NCL that are
for specific versions of openSUSE.
> So I expect that we will eventually see NCL
> 2.0 sp2 beta for some versions of OpenSUSE. Considering that the NCL 2.0
> sp1 beta for OpenSUSE 10.3 has been in beta since June 2008 - 9 months -
> I don't expect to ever see anything but beta clients for the OpenSUSE
> distributions.
NCL seems to have a rather slow dev cycle for whatever reason. At any
rate, I've asked Novell for some clarification, but at best I would say
NCL 2.0 SP2 might be released for openSUSE 10.3 & 11, but I wouldn't
guarantee it. As frustrating as it may be, the official stance for all
of these clients (NCL, GW, iPrint, iFolder) is that they are supported on
SLED and that's it. They may work on openSUSE but really aren't
supported on openSUSE.
Ron Neilly
> On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:35:53 +0000, Ron Neilly wrote:
>
>> What this really looks like to me is that Novell releases an official,
>> non-beta, client for the SLED platform.
>
> If you look, though, you can find older non-beta released of NCL that are
> for specific versions of openSUSE.
Okay I accept your challenge. I looked. This is what I searched
on : "opensuse client". I set no limits on the Product or Dates fields. The
result returned for actual Production, NON-BETA, releases....ONE : Novell
Client for openSUSE 10.2, Oct 12 2007.
So you are technically correct. But IMHO this paucity of results supports my
viewpoint not yours. Viz the openSUSE platform is a weakly supported,
second-class citizen in the Novell world. This grates this customers nerves
all the more for the presence of beta clients which give the appearance of
support without the full substance. I get more than enough of this kind of
positioning from Microsoft and my elected representatives.
>
> NCL seems to have a rather slow dev cycle for whatever reason. At any
Yup. Probably has to do with it being tied to the SLED cycle.
> rate, I've asked Novell for some clarification,
Thank you for taking the time to dig into this.
> As frustrating as it may be, the official stance for all
> of these clients (NCL, GW, iPrint, iFolder) is that they are supported on
> SLED and that's it. They may work on openSUSE but really aren't
> supported on openSUSE.
>
Yes it is frustrating because SLED is not always the right tool for the job.
And I know that Novell is aware of the many cries for more widespread
distribution of the NCL. Many folks have asked that the L part of NCL
actually apply to more than just Novell's enterprise distribution.
At the very LEAST Novell needs to support their clients (iPrint, NCL, GW,
iFolder) fully on the openSUSE distribution. I can understand not having
the resources to support it on the competing distro's like Ubuntu. On the
other hand it is a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Supporting the client on competitors distros is only going to help Novell
get more OES into the server room, from which Novell can spread
SLED/openSUSE to the desktop. Leverage. Enter Embrace Extend. Etc.
Basically Novell needs to SH_T or get off the pot wrt to supporting openSUSE
as a legitimate first-class citizen in the Novell network world. You know,
the ONE heterogenous net philosophy applied, not just espoused.
Cheers,
Ron
Joseph Marton
> Okay I accept your challenge. I looked. This is what I searched on :
> "opensuse client". I set no limits on the Product or Dates fields. The
> result returned for actual Production, NON-BETA, releases....ONE :
> Novell Client for openSUSE 10.2, Oct 12 2007.
I think that's the only officially supported one that was released for
any version of openSUSE.
> Viz the openSUSE platform is a weakly
> supported, second-class citizen in the Novell world.
Let's be honest: unsupported. Right, wrong, we could argue it for days.
But that's how it is.
> Yes it is frustrating because SLED is not always the right tool for the
> job. And I know that Novell is aware of the many cries for more
> widespread distribution of the NCL. Many folks have asked that the L
> part of NCL actually apply to more than just Novell's enterprise
> distribution.
Hey, it's not just NCL where people want this. People want all of
Novell's clients to be supported on openSUSE. It's probably not going to
happen anytime soon, though. I can definitely understand the customer's
side of the argument, but to be fair I can also understand Novell's side
of it. It costs money to develop these clients. Novell only sees
revenue from SLED, not openSUSE. But then again twisting it around, if
it weren't for openSUSE, there wouldn't be SLED/SLES.
It's a double-edged sword. All we can do is hope that Novell does what's
best for the customer without shooting themselves in the foot.