GWTSA & Arcserve 9 Backup Size
Doug Percival
I just upgraded our GroupWise server to GroupWise 6.5.1 and Arcserve 9.0
and have encountered a problem with backups made using the GWTSA.NLM
with Arcserve. The backups are much larger (i.e. take more tape) than
before the upgrade.
First, details of the upgrade:
OS: NetWare 5.1 SP6 (unchanged)
GROUPWISE: Upgraded from GW 6.0.3 (SP3) to GroupWise 6.5.1 (SP1).
Using the GWTSA.NLM from GroupWise 6.0 original release, as recommended
elsewhere in this forum.
BACKUP: Upgraded from ArcserveIT 6.6 (which was using Arcserve's backup
agent for GroupWise) to BrightStor Arcserve v9.0 (using Novell's GWTSA.NLM)
PROBLEM: The backups are now too large for the media. The server has
two DDS4 DAT Drives, each with a capacity of 20 gigabytes native up to
40 Gb with maximum compression. Previously we could back up the entire
server (4Gb SYS volume and 46Gb VOL1 containing the GroupWise domain and
PO, etc) on two DDS4 tapes with no problem.
Now, using Arcserve 9 and GWTSA, I am attempting to backup ONLY the
GroupWise domain and PO. The total disk space used by the domain and
post office directories combined is about 35 gigabytes (5GB domain, 30Gb
post office). However, Arcserve is complaining "media full" after going
through the second tape. Oddly enough, Arcserve shows 17Gb used on the
first tape, but 34Gb used on the second tape. (I've tried multiple sets
of tapes and cleaned the tape drives, and there are no significant
errors shown in the tape server log.)
Unfortunately, the Arcserve log file shows NO detail as to what has been
backed up. It just indicates that it connected with the TSA, and the
only subsequent entries show when it formatted the tapes, and when it
encountered "media full" at the end. The GWTSA.NLM log files only show
a list of files with the entry "File Scanned" for each; that's all. So
the log files are not helpful in figuring out what is going wrong.
(GWTSA is logging in "normal" rather than "verbose" mode; I'll change
that for tonight's backup).
I have seen two posts in this forum that may be related.
In November, Bryce Hustad described an identical problem with AS9 /
GWTSA backups using more space on backup media than used by a file
system backup:
> I have a server running nw6 sp2, arcserve 9
> and has a quantum DLT 7000.
> The only thing this drive is going to
> backup is our groupwise system
> (v.6.5) via GWTSA. Everything works fine
> except it goes to two tapes.
> The entire groupwise system is about 32GB.
> Native tape size on this drive is 35GB.
> If I just backup the directory structure,
> it fits on one tape no problems, as
> soon as I use GWTSA it goes to 2 tapes.
In December, Albert Pavlov wrote about a problem with GWTSA backing up
GroupWise files twice (which would certainly use more backup media):
> I have GW 6.5 sp1 system.
> GroupWise files backed up twice by GWTSA & sbcon.
> In TID10083896 I read: "Addressed in a FTF
> fgw64n3.exe or later. This fix may be added
> to the next GroupWise service patch (SP4)." fgw652n4.exe from 11
> November did't resolve this problem.
> What I need to do to fix this?
Maybe the GWTSA verbose logging will show me if files are being backed
up twice in my case. Meanwhile, does anyone have any suggestions, or
... a solution??
--
Doug Percival, CNE
LAN Administrator
World Resources Institute
Voice: 202-729-7614
Fax: 202-729-7610
Email: do...@wri.org
william...@ords.com.au
I had exactly the same problem, and I've just tried the GWTSA.NLM version
6.00d, dated 04NOV2003. This is a beta release and is contained in the
downloadable file fgw64n7.exe.
After applying this patch my Groupwise backups are back to normal size,
and the backups are actually completing about 20% faster than they used to
when the Groupwise system was still version 6.0. What I haven't been able
to do yet is perform a restore to confirm that the data is recoverable.
Regards,
Bill
> .... a solution??
Doug Percival
> I had exactly the same problem, and I've just tried the GWTSA.NLM version
> 6.00d, dated 04NOV2003. This is a beta release and is contained in the
> downloadable file fgw64n7.exe.
> After applying this patch my Groupwise backups are back to normal size,
> and the backups are actually completing about 20% faster than they used to
> when the Groupwise system was still version 6.0. What I haven't been able
> to do yet is perform a restore to confirm that the data is recoverable.
>
> Regards,
> Bill
Hello Bill,
I tried that version as you suggested but it will not load on our server
where GroupWise 6.5 SP1 is running - it complains that gwtsaUS.fil is
"out of date". GWTSA.NLM v6.00d is a beta release for GroupWise 6.0 SP4
and not intended for GW 6.5 ...
I also tried the latest beta release of GWTSA.NLM for GroupWise 6.5 SP2,
(the download is fgw652n5.exe). However, that has the same problem with
Arcserve 9 as the GW 6.5 SP1 version: the Arcserve Manager cannot see
the GroupWise domain or post office using that version. So far, the
only version of GWTSA.NLM that seems to allow AS9 to see and back up the
GroupWise domain & PO is the original shipping version from GW 6.5.0.
With the original GW 6.5 SP1 version of GWTSA.NLM logging in verbose
mode, I see files listed in the log file as being backed up, and no
indication that they are being backed up twice. A sample entry (from
OFFILES) looks like this:
05:44:42 MSG: DataSet Name = 3F4CB917.000
05:44:42 MSG: Scanned file = 3FCF6C21.000
05:44:42 MSG: Open For Backup = 3FCF6C21.000
However, the backups are still much larger than they should be, and I
cannot get a complete backup of our GroupWise system.
Any more suggestions, anyone? Not being able to back up GroupWise is a
serious problem.
Doug Percival
Novell support says that there is no reason that the GWTSA.NLM would
cause excessively large backup sizes and that the problem is most likely
with Arcserve 9 itself. We agreed that I will try a "cold" backup -
unload all the GroupWise software including the TSA, and do a straight
file system backup of the server, rather than a GroupWise domain/PO
backup. If the same problem occurs, that suggests the problem is not
the GWTSA but Arcserve. If the file system backup is OK, then we go
back to the GWTSA. The support tech said that Novell is working on some
new GWTSA code, and is talking to Computer Associates (Arcserve) about
some issues, but that this code is not ready to use yet even as an
emergency field test.
I'll post results of the file system backup here for anyone who is
interested.
(By the way, the charge for a telephone support incident has TRIPLED
since the last time I needed to do this. The charge for an online chat
support incident is now the same as what a telephone support incident
used to cost, so I went with that. Unfortunately the online chat
support leaves a lot to be desired. It is very clunky and there were
delays of several minutes waiting for the support technician's responses.)
Tim Heywood (NSC Sysop)
If a fault is found in the code then Novell waves the cost of the call,
naturally.
Having used GW6.0 and the TSA with AS9 to great success I have had problems with
GW6.51 and AS9.01 The biggest improvements that I found were by updating the
SMDR to the latest (then TSA5up13) before I tried to resolve the GW/AS problems.
This seemed to work.
Tim
No Direct e-Mail Please!
--
****************
Tim Heywood
Independent Consultant
Scotland
(God's Country)
Novell Support Connection SYSOP
****************
In theory, practice and theory are the same,
In practice they are different!
Doug Percival
> Having used GW6.0 and the TSA with AS9 to great success I have had problems with
> GW6.51 and AS9.01 The biggest improvements that I found were by updating the
> SMDR to the latest (then TSA5up13) before I tried to resolve the GW/AS problems.
> This seemed to work.
Thanks, Tim. I have been running the original Arcserve 9.0 and will
install the 9.01 patch today.
The tsa5up13.exe patch from October 2003 is still available for download
from Novell. However, I notice that the beta NetWare 5.1 SP7 is also
available as of January 15 2004, and has newer (December 2003) versions
of the same files. Would it be best to use the versions from the beta
SP7 instead of from tsa5up13.exe ?
Tim Heywood (NSC Sysop)
resolve an obscure but problematical bug) so do please try them out, need I
mention taking safe copies first...
Tim
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 20:01:54 GMT, Doug Percival <do...@wri.org> wrote:
>Tim Heywood (NSC Sysop) wrote:
>> Having used GW6.0 and the TSA with AS9 to great success I have had problems with
>> GW6.51 and AS9.01 The biggest improvements that I found were by updating the
>> SMDR to the latest (then TSA5up13) before I tried to resolve the GW/AS problems.
>> This seemed to work.
>
>Thanks, Tim. I have been running the original Arcserve 9.0 and will
>install the 9.01 patch today.
>
>The tsa5up13.exe patch from October 2003 is still available for download
>from Novell. However, I notice that the beta NetWare 5.1 SP7 is also
>available as of January 15 2004, and has newer (December 2003) versions
>of the same files. Would it be best to use the versions from the beta
>SP7 instead of from tsa5up13.exe ?
Doug Percival
TSA500.NLM, TSANDS.NLM etc. from the tsa5up13.exe patch. I then ran
another GroupWise system backup with Arcserve 9.01 and GWTSA.NLM v6.05
(the version from the original GroupWise 6.5.0 release). The result was
that now both of the DDS4 DAT tapes held about 34 Gigabytes each
(previously the first tape only held 17Gb, whereas it should hold at
least 20Gb without compression). However, after writing a total of 70
Gb of data to tape, Arcserve was asking for more blank media. There is
only about half that amount (35Gb) of actual data on the entire server,
including both SYS and VOL1, and in this case the backup would only have
included the GroupWise domain and PO so it should have been even less
than that.
So, it appears that the problem with the first tape being underutilized
may have been fixed by these patches, but the problem with Arcserve
writing excessive amounts of data to tape continues. The next test, I
suppose, would be to try another cold file system backup of the server
(with all GroupWise agents unloaded) to see if the problem continues
with these patches; the result should either confirm or eliminate GWTSA
as the problem.
Any further suggestions greatly appreciated.
Tim Heywood (NSC Sysop)
Ok, we need to do a little working on how much data we have in a PO. In you Po
you have allot of internal mail. Fred sends a copy of a 1MB Word Document to 10
people. How much does the POA Directory structure increase by? Well, as we
know GW encrypts the data, what most people do not realise is that it is also
compressed. There is only one attachment (fred's) but there are 11 links to it
(Fred plus the other 10) so the total data increase is about 700KB.
But when we back this up, we need to follow all of the links, se we actually end
up backing up 11 * 700KB or 7700KB
So, you could be looking at the correct amount of data....
There is one way, and right now only one way to prove or disprove that your
backup is broken. Keep feeding backup tapes until the backup has finished.
Restore this onto a test network server and see if it works. I wish there was a
better way. :-) I'm hoping that the new snapshot technology that NW6.5 uses
will allow GW to be snapshotted, and that snapshot backed up to tape and
therefore be small and the integrity guaranteed. (I wish)
Tim
Doug Percival
> [...] The next test, I
> (with all GroupWise agents unloaded) to see if the problem continues
> with these patches; the result should either confirm or eliminate GWTSA
> as the problem.
On Friday 1/30, I installed the just-released NetWare 5.1 Support Pack 7
on the server, restarted the server without loading any GroupWise
agents, loaded Arcserve 9.01 and ran a full, "cold" file system backup
of the entire server. The result was the same as it has been since I
started using Arcserve 9: Arcserve wrote about 35 Gigabytes of data to
each of the DDS4 20/40 Gb tapes, for a total of over 70 Gb, and was
asking for additional media, even though the server has less than 38
Gigabytes total data on it (and NetWare compression is turned OFF on the
server).
Since this occurred without any GroupWise agents loaded, including the
GWTSA.NLM, it appears that it is not a GroupWise problem but must be an
Arcserve and/or NetWare problem. So I won't pursue it further in this
forum, but if I find a fix I will post it here for the benefit of other
GroupWise admins who have encountered this issue. (I have opened
support incidents with both Novell and Computer Associates.)
Having said that ... there IS still a problem with the GroupWise 6.5
GWTSA.NLMs and Arcserve 9. The only GW 6.5 TSA that works AT ALL with
Arcserve 9.01 is the GWTSA.NLM from the original shipping version of
GroupWise 6.5.0. When a GWTSA.NLM from GW 6.5 SP1 or later (including
the latest SP2 beta release) is loaded at the server, the Arcserve
Manager cannot even see the GroupWise domain or post office. Computer
Associates has documented this issue and says they are working on a fix
with Novell.
Tim Heywood (NSC Sysop)
>On Friday 1/30, I installed the just-released NetWare 5.1 Support Pack 7
>on the server, restarted the server without loading any GroupWise
>agents, loaded Arcserve 9.01 and ran a full, "cold" file system backup
>of the entire server. The result was the same as it has been since I
>started using Arcserve 9: Arcserve wrote about 35 Gigabytes of data to
>each of the DDS4 20/40 Gb tapes, for a total of over 70 Gb, and was
>asking for additional media, even though the server has less than 38
>Gigabytes total data on it (and NetWare compression is turned OFF on the
>server).
Oh oh,
>
>Since this occurred without any GroupWise agents loaded, including the
>GWTSA.NLM, it appears that it is not a GroupWise problem but must be an
>Arcserve and/or NetWare problem. So I won't pursue it further in this
>forum, but if I find a fix I will post it here for the benefit of other
>GroupWise admins who have encountered this issue. (I have opened
>support incidents with both Novell and Computer Associates.)
>
Do please let us know the outcome of both these,
>Having said that ... there IS still a problem with the GroupWise 6.5
>GWTSA.NLMs and Arcserve 9. The only GW 6.5 TSA that works AT ALL with
>Arcserve 9.01 is the GWTSA.NLM from the original shipping version of
>GroupWise 6.5.0. When a GWTSA.NLM from GW 6.5 SP1 or later (including
>the latest SP2 beta release) is loaded at the server, the Arcserve
>Manager cannot even see the GroupWise domain or post office. Computer
>Associates has documented this issue and says they are working on a fix
>with Novell.
:-/ I know (and have agreed with you on this) I wasted a whole week on this, before I backreved the GWTSA and "Bing" it starts to work.
Good luck and do please let us know.