There Will Be Blood
John Marchioro
Has anyone seen this film from 2007? If so, what did you think of it?
If you have not, I do not want to spoil it by going into the plot in
too much detail. (Maybe those who have not seen it but want to, and do
not want it spoiled by knowing too muich about the plot, should not
read this thread any further...) I watched the DVD yesterday and
enjoyed it greatly, but thought the narrative's thread got lost in the
second half, and also felt some of the film's later scenes just did
not mesh well with the buildup, and dissipated rather than brought to
a peak all the preceding narrative tension. But then it closes with a
stunning ending (I won't give it away, but it is unforgettable, well
worth the 2 1/2 hours that you have to sit through to see it). And a
great soundtrack, a masterful performance by Daniel Day-Lewis,
wonderful cinematography, just many fine aspects overall.
The interesting thing is while that critics generally lauded the film,
with some even calling it a masterpiece (surely one of the most
overused words in the English language), there were some significant
holdouts, as you can see by looking it up on - where else? -
Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Will_Be_Blood
I thought the tart comment about how just because writer/director
Thomas set out to make a masterpiece did not mean that he had done so
was a bit unfair, and applies much better to many other recent films I
can think of (for example, the laboriously artsy Polish brothers' film
"Northfork"). And I wonder to what extent the carping was due to that
incredible ending.
Anyway, just curious to hear what others thought. It is a film that
stays with you, and that is saying something in and of itself.
And now for "The Wrestler"......
John Marchioro
Marc Adler
Has anyone seen this film from 2007? If so, what did you think of it?
--
Marc Adler
Jerome Conway
> Has anyone seen this film from 2007? If so, what did you think of it?
>
yours as to dissipation of thematic material in the second half, tending
to isolate rather than build up to that jawdropper end (the director's intent
perhaps?). Daniel Day-Lewis's performance is, ultimately as scary as his
Gangs of New York turn. I watched an interesting movie last night about
Maori urban gang/bar life called Once Were Warriors (my son's Netflick
selection). It has some horrendous domestic violence, and shows the
long-term effects of an authoritarian family structure combined with
poverty. Very compelling characters, all the way through. By the way: I
hope everyone gets out to see Avatar at a well-equipped cinematic
establishment. You owe it to yourself.
Jerome
Karen Sandness
and while it was hard to watch, it was about as emotionally involving
as any movie I've ever seen.
At one point, the entire audience gasped in unanimous dismay and
sorrow when they realized what one of the characters was about to do.
Film buffly yours,
Karen Sandness
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Minoru Mochizuki
degree but was not impressed too much. Reading the plot on the Wikipedia
confirmed the fact that I saw it, however. That's all I can and wish to
comment about it. I would like to know why John is so much interested to
mention it. I once established an office in Houston, courted a few
oil-related companies which included Hughes Tool Company in late 1970s and
sold a few machines. That's a fond memory. Oh, yes, I recall sawing a movie
about Howard Hughes himself, which was interesting to me, in particular, an
episode that he trusted the cleanliness of Kleenex Tissues as something that
can protect him from germs.
Minoru Mochizuki
John Marchioro
> I thought I saw it on my TV this year (2009), meaning I enjoyed it to a
> degree but was not impressed too much. Reading the plot on the Wikipedia
> confirmed the fact that I saw it, however. That's all I can and wish to
> comment about it. I would like to know why John is so much interested to
> mention it.
[snip]
The short answer is that a lot of 10 Best Films of the Decade Lists
are being compiled rihgt now, and "There Will Be Blood" is on many of
them.
I watched "Once Were Warriors" on cable years ago, and found it very
depressing and unpleasant. It is based on a semi-autobiographical
novel by Alan Duff, which sounds even more depressing in that the
mother in the novel (apparently based on Duff's own mother, who was
Maori) is also a serious alcoholic and lacks the virtues of the mother
character in the film:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_Were_Warriors
I have the novel lying around here somewhere, but have never looked at
it. I have always wondered what New Zealanders think of the book and
the film, given the highly negative portrayal of the Maori (or at
least that segment of urbanized poor Maori who are lost somewhere
between traditional Maori culture and the mainstream Western culture
of urban New Zealand, if that is the right way to frame it).
And on that note, back to the last 30 minutes of "The Wrestler", which
has become a bit maudlin at this point.
John M.
Minoru Mochizuki
In more general terms, I am seeing various characteristics/trends in movies from various countries.
Movies imported from South Korea into Japan are often romantic love stories featuring good looking guys and dolls, many of whom are rumored to have face lift-ups by surgery.
Movies imported from China into Japan are primarily based on legendary figures who involved in various wars among lords some of who became emperors. (Many Japanese are fond of those stories and quite familiar with those muscle heroes.) I noted during my trip to China in October many war movies on CCCV TV involving resistances against invading Japanese army and the civil war between Communist and Kuomintang armies.
Movies imported from U.S. into Japan are most notably crime movies, science fictions of depicting the end of the world. I am wondering why there are so many American movies the catastrophic events. I understand that there will be a road show of a movie depicting the 2012 end of the world prediction. Also, I wonder what is the significance of a movie like Silence of the Lambs. I see a combination of some intelligence and brutality.
Movie industry in Japan is no longer a major industry, I believe. It hay day is over a few decades ago. It is mostly silly/syrupy animation movies. It depresses me that many Japanese consider that those animation products are most representative of the present day Japanese culture.
Minoru
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com [mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
John Marchioro
> In more general terms, I am seeing various characteristics/trends in movies
> from various countries.
[snip]
I noted during my trip to China in October many war
> movies on CCCV TV involving resistances against invading Japanese army and
> the civil war between Communist and Kuomintang armies.
It is not a new trend. Go to the DVD section of any big Xinhua
Bookstore like the ones in Guangzhou, Chongqing, Shanghai or Beijing,
and you will find a lot of shelf space devoted to movies called 爱国片 or
红色经典. If they are not about the anti-Japanese war (the Chinese term
frequently used for WWII in Asia), they are about the Chinese
intervention in the Korean War. I have a huge stack of these films,
including a bunch that were made in North Korea and North Vietnam
(dubbed into Chinese) and screened widely in China back in the 1950s
and 1960s (the North Korean film "The Little Flower Girl" was shown
all over China during the Cultural Revolution, and is mentioned in
novels like Ha Jin's "Waiting" and Dai Sijie's "Balzac and the Little
Chinese Seamstress"), though I have yet to watch any of them. They
look like they are all fairly stilted cookie cutter films turned out
in huge numbers as state propaganda, based on earlier Soviet models
though with "unique Chinese (or NK or NV) socialist characteristics".
The stuff on CCTV is just the updated version of these, though the
acting is much better and the production values are much higher.
> Movies imported from U.S. into Japan are most notably crime movies, science
> fictions of depicting the end of the world. I am wondering why there are so
> many American movies the catastrophic events.
The answer is obvious. It gives Hollywood a chance to use all its cool
special effects, like those computer generation gizmos and software
and the rest. The basic fact of Hollywood in the last 30 years is that
it sells in a global market. Action films (crime, war, disaster,
fantasy) by their nature involve lots of explosions, car chases, space
ship battles, sharks, etc.). So people in Thailand and France and
Chile do not have to read lots of tedious subtitles or listen to
stilted overdubbing, and they can sit back and enjoy all the carnage,
which is a universal language. The plot in these films is an
after-thought half the time; most of the budget is consumed by the
cost of signing Leonardo D. and Kate W. or some other photogenic
couple and then all the special effects stuff. Good guy, bad guy, cute
babe. ACTION!!!!
> Also, I wonder what is the significance of a movie like Silence of the
> Lambs. I see a combination of some intelligence and brutality.
I think a crude voyeurism about serial killing was a bigger part of
the thought process behind that particular film, though there is an
interesting psychological dynamic between the characters played by
Jody Foster and Anthony Hopkins.
> Movie industry in Japan is no longer a major industry, I believe. It hay day
> is over a few decades ago. It is mostly silly/syrupy animation movies. It
> depresses me that many Japanese consider that those animation products are
> most representative of the present day Japanese culture.
That's a bit sweeping, don't you think, Minoru? There are still some
decent films being made in Japan, but the problem is that it is hard
to compete with the Hollywood machine. The movie industries in Europe
have the same problem, but if you look you will find that lots of fine
movies are still being made there. It just takes more effort to find
them.
John M.
Karen Sandness
Netflix has a catalogue of thousands of films, and it's interesting to
look at its foreign film section. There are a lot of oldies but
goodies like the films of Truffaut and Kurosawa, but there are also
worthwhile newer films from outside the 英語圏.
Passing one's mouse over a title gives you a pop-up that describes the
plot, and clicking on it brings you to a page with a more detailed
synopsis, cast list, and critics' and viewers' reviews.
I currently have a queue of over 400 films and television episodes,
about half of them in foreign languages.
Cinematically yours,
Karen Sandness
On Dec 31, 2009, at 8:35 AM, John Marchioro wrote:
> That's a bit sweeping, don't you think, Minoru? There are still some
> decent films being made in Japan, but the problem is that it is hard
> to compete with the Hollywood machine. The movie industries in Europe
> have the same problem, but if you look you will find that lots of fine
> movies are still being made there. It just takes more effort to find
> them.
>
>
> John M.
>
Jerome Conway
> Netflix has a catalogue of thousands of films, and it's interesting to
> look at its foreign film section. There are a lot of oldies but
> goodies like the films of Truffaut and Kurosawa, but there are also
> worthwhile newer films from outside the 英語圏.
>
> I currently have a queue of over 400 films and television episodes,
> about half of them in foreign languages.
Netflix seems also to be releasing more and more of its DVD stock for
streaming, so that you can take some things out of your queue and watch
them right away. I was very pleased earlier this year when they made nearly
the complete run of the Granada TV/Jeremy Brett version of Sherlock
Holmes available online.
Jerome Conway
Marc Adler
Netflix has a catalogue of thousands of films, and it's interesting to
look at its foreign film section. There are a lot of oldies but
goodies like the films of Truffaut and Kurosawa, but there are also
worthwhile newer films from outside the 英語圏.
The true Netflix revolution will come when all their movies are available for viewing online.
Marc
John Marchioro
>> Netflix has a catalogue of thousands of films, and it's interesting to
>> look at its foreign film section. There are a lot of oldies but
>> goodies like the films of Truffaut and Kurosawa, but there are also
>> worthwhile newer films from outside the 英語圏.
And Marc responded:
> The true Netflix revolution will come when all their movies are available
> for viewing online.
And the Internet will have achieved its true telos the day I can go on
line and select any one among several tens of thousands of live
performances by McCoy Tyner, Charles Mingus, Art Blakey, Jackie
McLean, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, et al, and listen to it FOR FREE.
John M.
@I know the tapes are out there, in a vault somewhere
Minoru Mochizuki
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:36 PM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood
John says:
> It is not a new trend.
I say:
I did not say it is a new trend.
I said it is a trend (seen in Chinese movie seen on CCCTV in October 2009).
John says:
"The answer is obvious" to my question:
> Movies imported from U.S. into Japan are most notably crime movies,
science
> fictions of depicting the end of the world. I am wondering why there are
so
> many American movies the catastrophic events.
John is not answering my question.
He only refers to movie-making technology (special effects) and seems to be
saying Hollywood is providing what people want to see on the screen.
Hollywood
used to feed sex and violence themes. Those themes are very understandable
as
those are inherent human nature (for reproduction). My question is why
people are
attracted to the destruction of civilization at this point in time? Are they
seeing that civilization is a sin to be punished by the supernatural being
one day?
> Also, I wonder what is the significance of a movie like Silence of the
> Lambs. I see a combination of some intelligence and brutality.
I think a crude voyeurism about serial killing was a bigger part of
the thought process behind that particular film, though there is an
interesting psychological dynamic between the characters played by
Jody Foster and Anthony Hopkins.
John is not answering my question. He is simply describing the film.
My question was why American movies are so much interested in gory scenes as
peeling off face skins and using it as a mask, for example. Are those
interests
are ingrained in their nature while religion is more intensely sought and
publicized in US than in other nations? What U.S. is faced with and
struggling
seems to be the battle between the Islamic and Christian fundamentalists.
We keep hearing daily so many Americans are being killed.
That's a bit sweeping, don't you think, Minoru?
Yes, John, it is of course a bit sweeping comment which was made
intentionally to amplify my point. I am not making a scientific/statistical
comment here.
Minoru
John Marchioro
> John says:
>> It is not a new trend.
>
> I say:
> I did not say it is a new trend.
> I said it is a trend (seen in Chinese movie seen on CCCTV in October 2009).
It isn't a trend. It is a staple of PRC culture. There are over 60
years of such films now. Hundreds have been made. I have about 50 of
my own, more if you count the NV and NK ones, which were screened
widely in the PRC for many years.
You also seem to think that those period dramas about Chinese heroes
running around using kung-fu on Manchu officials in a valiant effort
to restore the Ming Dynasty, or whatever, also represent a "trend". It
isn't a trend. It is another staple, this time of Chinese culture
worldwide. They were showing this stuff on TV in Taiwan when I lived
there in the 1980s, and when I lived in Seoul in the 1990s for a time
the Koreans were watching this crap all the time too (mostly produced
in Hong Kong). I once took a bus from Seoul to Kyeongju; the TV on the
bus played one dumb HK wu3xia2 drama after another for 6 long hours,
just unbearable, but the Koreans all lapped it up.
The only reason this genre was not shown in the PRC for about 30 years
was that everything was politicized and had to have some contemporary
political relevance, but the minute Maoism was back-burnered this
stuff came back with a vengeance. You do not even need to go to China
to read and see this stuff; go to any Chinatown in any city anywhere
on Planet Earth and find the bookstore there, it is invariably full of
Jin Yong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Yong) novels and rental
videos based on his and lesser such works. 鹿鼎记. 天龙八部. Shaolin monks.
Yawn. It makes the American obsession with Westerns seem almost
tolerable by comparison.
Anyway, these are not "trends", Minoru.
John M.
Minoru Mochizuki
>It isn't a trend. It is a staple of PRC culture. There are over 60
>years of such films now. Hundreds have been made. I have about 50 of
>my own, more if you count the NV and NK ones, which were screened
>widely in the PRC for many years.
I say that it is still a trend after so many years as they seem to
be still creative in the direction. According to a Webster (III
International),
the noun "trend" means "a prevailing tendency or inclination."
That's what I meant. I think you need to learn the language.
John says:
>You also seem to think that those period dramas about Chinese heroes
>running around using kung-fu on Manchu officials ...
I never mentioned any kung-fu artists, so whatever you say there is
your imagination and useless allegation. Save your breath.
You say:
>Anyway, these are not "trends", Minoru.
And I say you should learn about the word, "trend," John.
Minoru
John Marchioro
> John says:
>>It isn't a trend. It is a staple of PRC culture. There are over 60
>>years of such films now. Hundreds have been made. I have about 50 of
>>my own, more if you count the NV and NK ones, which were screened
>>widely in the PRC for many years.
>
> I say that it is still a trend after so many years as they seem to
> be still creative in the direction. According to a Webster (III
> International),
> the noun "trend" means "a prevailing tendency or inclination."
> That's what I meant. I think you need to learn the language.
Hmmmm..... Perhaps this should be called a "megatrend" or even a
"gigatrend" or "teratrend", since the Chinese have displayed this
"prevailing tendency" since at least the Song Dynasty, when the
stories that make up the 水浒专 first started to circulate.
Honestly, Minoru, I think you are hardly the one to be giving anyone
English lessons in light of your past performance here. But since you
have kindly taken this opportunity to instruct me on the nuances of my
native tongue, I will teach you a Chinese saying, which applies quite
well to your observations about China:
少见多怪
Now, I'd of course love to spend the evening playing "Through The
Looking Glass" with you, Minoru, but I think instead I will watch a
movie and then see if Kathy Griffin can manage an hour with Anderson
Cooper without dropping the "F bomb" for once.
Happy New Year, Minoru.
John M.
Minoru Mochizuki
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com [mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 11:48 AM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood
John says:
>Honestly, Minoru, I think you are hardly the one to be giving anyone
>English lessons in light of your past performance here.
I am not giving you any English lesson. I am simply suggesting you to
learn English if you have a trouble understanding an English word and
that has no relevance to my past performance here, whatever it is.
You are still not answering any of my questions, but I have no problem
with that, as I didn't have much expectations of any innovative, unique
comments from you, John, because your performances on this forum have
always be been quotations from some other person's writings.
Minoru
John Marchioro
>>Honestly, Minoru, I think you are hardly the one to be giving anyone
>>English lessons in light of your past performance here.
And Minoru responded:
> I am not giving you any English lesson. I am simply suggesting you to
> learn English if you have a trouble understanding an English word and
> that has no relevance to my past performance here, whatever it is.
Minoru, you are wrong about the meaning of the word "trend", OK? It
does not include the idea of "genre". The films you talked about - the
patriotic Chinese war movie, the traditional Chinese hero movie, the
US disaster film, etc. - are all "genres". These have been made for
years, as I have tried to point out.
In the last case, there are films like "Krakatoa East of Java", "The
Towering Inferno", "The Poseidon Adventure" and on and on and on, that
were made decades ago. The reason more such films are being made today
is that the special effects are far better, and audiences love to see
such special effects. And that includes audiences in Argentina and
Egypt and China, and so all this special effects wizardry enables
Hollywood to win big in the global market. Frontline actually did a
segment on all this a few years back, explaining why Hollywood had
opted for these big special effects blockbusters and describing the
adverse consequences it has had on the quality of the dialogue and
plot of the average film. There are lots of books discussing this
shift in Hollywood as well. So that is indeed an answer to your
question about why there are so many more disaster movies (and big
budget sci-fi and other such films) being made in the US these days.
As for "trend", I will throw this out for general discussion, but my
own gut feeling is that the average trend is not longer than a decade
or two at most. You can talk about the postwar trend towards
suburbanization, or the trend towards more sexual content in TV shows
since the 1990s. But in each case one is not talking about long sweeps
of time. That is why the adjective "trendy" means something akin to
"faddish"; the amount of time involved is very short. And so it is
wrong to say that the sorts of films of Chinese films you mentioned
are part of a "trend"; they are staples of Chinese film-making and TV
series, in the same way that the Western has been in the US since
"Stagecoach".
And Minoru concluded:
> You are still not answering any of my questions, but I have no problem
> with that, as I didn't have much expectations of any innovative, unique
> comments from you, John, because your performances on this forum have
> always be been quotations from some other person's writings.
I did not quote anyone else's writings in my previous posts, I just
illustrated one point by referring to Jin Yong to show how
long-standing the Chinese obsession with these wu3xia2 stories has
been. But what if I had cited someone's book to make the same point?
So what?
You seem to think that reading about a subject before popping off
about it is some kind of character flaw. Actually it is the better
part of modesty to admit that one does not know everything, and to
look for written material about it as part of developing one's opinion
or ideas about it. That does not mean that every written source is
accurate or congenial, of course. For instance, one of the first books
I read about Japanese cinema was "The Waves At Genji's Door" by Joan
Mellen, and I thought her readings of most of films that she covered
were totally off-base. But there are a lot of other books about
Japanese cinema that have sharper and more informative analysis, and
reading them raised my ability to appreciate the distinctive features
of Japanese cinema.
The important thing is to absorb what has been written about a topic
and develop your own opinion based on it. Reading a book and even
citing it as evidence does not entail slavish adherence to everything
in it. It also does not preclude developing one's own ideas; it is
usually a necessary though not sufficient condition for doing so. And
objecting to the citation of books or articles or whatever is just
anti-intellectualism. It is not a respectable position.
I really should not have to say this to someone with a college
education, Minoru. It is the sort of thing I say to my daughter
routinely to get her to read more. Just pathetic.
John Marchioro
John Garside
>Minoru, you are wrong about the meaning of the word "trend", OK?
Maybe he'll produce his personal English dictionary one day ...
Has anyone seen the Brits'-voted movie of the year:
Let the Right One In:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2009/apr/10/reel-review-let-the-right-one-in
john g
John Marchioro
> Has anyone seen the Brits'-voted movie of the year:
>
> Let the Right One In:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2009/apr/10/reel-review-let-the-right-one-in
No. This must be part of a trend towards Swedish vampire movies, right?
Has the Danish national cinema responded yet?
John M.
Marc Adler
Has the Danish national cinema responded yet?
Marc
Minoru Mochizuki
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:05 AM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood
And Minoru responded:
> I am not giving you any English lesson. I am simply suggesting you to
> learn English if you have a trouble understanding an English word and
> that has no relevance to my past performance here, whatever it is.
John says:
Minoru, you are wrong about the meaning of the word "trend", OK? It
does not include the idea of "genre". The films you talked about - the
patriotic Chinese war movie, the traditional Chinese hero movie, the
US disaster film, etc. - are all "genres". These have been made for
years, as I have tried to point out.
I say:
John, I didn't use the word "genre" and my argument is not based on the use
of such a word. Instead, I referred to the meaning provided by one of the
most authoritative dictionary on English, Webster's Third New International
Dictionary to show you how I used the word "trend."
I say:
The above two paragraphs are useless in the argument of the trend as you
seem to be saying that the trend started some time ago and it is still
going. You should note that the word trend does not have any specific period
that delimits the time frame. The trend here is the specific characteristics
of movies made in China (John, you should note it is not "genre") found in
comparison with the characteristics of movies made in other countries.
John says:
I did not quote anyone else's writings in my previous posts, I just
illustrated one point by referring to Jin Yong to show how
long-standing the Chinese obsession with these wu3xia2 stories has
been. But what if I had cited someone's book to make the same point?
So what?
I didn't say nothing about "Jin Yong."
Instead, when at the beginning of this thread John introduced an American
movie, I said " I ... enjoyed it to a degree but was not impressed too much.
Reading the plot on the Wikipedia confirmed the fact that I saw it, however.
That's all I can and wish to comment about it. I would like to know why
John is so much interested to mention it."
John never answered to that question. John simply responded " The short
answer is that a lot of 10 Best Films of the Decade Lists are being compiled
rihgt now, and "There Will Be Blood" is on many of them." In other words,
without telling us why he decided to talk about the movie, he simply quoted
an evaluation of the movie by others. Thus I conclude that it is either that
John lacks intelligence of thinking on his own or is hiding his opinion in
the fear that he may be considered a fool while he has been educated but
learned nothing. That is an idiosyncratic response one gets in discussing
with John. John always prefer to the comments, opinions, theories of people
he believes are authorities in the particular field. He seem to be trying to
accomplish two things: he tries to give an impression how much time and
money he spent on reading books, seeing movies, travelling, etc., and also
tries to avoid exposing his own minds (as if to hide the fact that there is
no unique theories and thoughts of his own).
John says as if it is his conclusion:
I really should not have to say this to someone with a college
education, Minoru. It is the sort of thing I say to my daughter
routinely to get her to read more. Just pathetic.
I say:
Reading many books without thinking is like asking Google to find a word or
paragraph among millions of books. Google program does a much better job
than you can, John.
Minoru
Minoru Mochizuki
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Garside
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:19 AM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood
Maybe he'll produce his personal English dictionary one day ...
Thank you John G. for your thought about me.
Unfortunately, I have to say that I have little patience for that kind of
work.
Minoru
John Marchioro
I say:
[long snip]
I think this may be of some help to you, Minoru:
http://symptoms.wrongdiagnosis.com/cosymptoms/dementia/drooling.htm
Perhaps the Chinese have an herb, or some other Daoist remedy for this malady.
Yawn,
John M.
Minoru Mochizuki
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 7:18 AM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood
John wonders:
I think this may be of some help to you, Minoru:
http://symptoms.wrongdiagnosis.com/cosymptoms/dementia/drooling.htm
Perhaps the Chinese have an herb, or some other Daoist remedy for this
malady.
I say:
John now seems to have given up debating logically and have retreated into a
dark hole.
I don't see anything that is contributing to the debate in this last comment
by him. He is simply "quoting" as usual (pointing to a website) instead of
showing his idea or thought or rebuttal.
I now wonder if he has any credentials other than the fact that he graduated
a university. Any professional careers or accomplishments he can talk of?
Are you simply a dilettante, John?
Minoru
John Marchioro
> I think this may be of some help to you, Minoru:
>
> http://symptoms.wrongdiagnosis.com/cosymptoms/dementia/drooling.htm
>
> Perhaps the Chinese have an herb, or some other Daoist remedy for this
> malady.
And Minoru responds:
> I say:
> John now seems to have given up debating logically and have retreated into a
> dark hole.
> I don't see anything that is contributing to the debate in this last comment
> by him. He is simply "quoting" as usual (pointing to a website) instead of
> showing his idea or thought or rebuttal.
>
> I now wonder if he has any credentials other than the fact that he graduated
> a university. Any professional careers or accomplishments he can talk of?
> Are you simply a dilettante, John?
You know, Minoru, based on this sort of exchange (with which Honyaku
list members will be familiar, since it is fairly typical of your
style over the years) I sometimes wonder what your purpose in posting
to these lists is. It seems as though you want to post some random,
offbeat comments, and then expect that not only no one will counter
them with contrary evidence or mere logic, but instead all and sundry
will prostrate themselves and tug their forelocks in awe at your
august wisdom. Or am I missing something?
If I decline to debate further at this point, it is because I see (as
others have seen, most recently Marc A.) that there IS no point in
continuing further. This is like that Monty Python skit about the guy
who pays to have argument. Any attempt to reason logically towards a
conclusion is met with contradiction, ad nauseam, and preposterous
quibbling about the meanings of words that would have made Lewis
Carroll howl. And then to top it all off, a lecture about the proper
usage of the English language!
Well, I'll grant you one virtue, namely consistency.
Have a nice day, Minoru.
John M.
Minoru Mochizuki
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 9:21 AM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood
John says:
You know, Minoru, based on this sort of exchange (with which Honyaku
list members will be familiar, since it is fairly typical of your
style over the years) I sometimes wonder what your purpose in posting
to these lists is.
I say:
So, John, you wish to discuss my purpose of posting to these lists (I
suppose you mean Honyaku and Not-Honyaku) rather than the movie you
introduced and movies in general. Does that mean you do not wish to discuss
about the movies?
OK. That's fine with me.
Then tell me what you think is the purpose of my posting.
My purpose of the most recent posting on Not-Honyaku was to satiate my
curiosity of why you were interested in the particular movie.
My purpose of the most recent posting on Honyaku was to express my opinion
that the understanding of a simple and mundane word,徹底, by a poster was
completely inaccurate and ridiculously wrong. In fact the person is simply
churning up the meaning of Japanese words into unrecognizable mud. In the
meanwhile, the zealous moderator, whom I ridiculed once about the literature
forum he invented as an offshoot of JAT-list which failed miserably, still
resents me and enjoys the opportunity to exercise zealously the policing
authority given to him. It's a personal vendetta and unimportant to
everybody else.
John says:
If I decline to debate further at this point, it is because I see (as
others have seen, most recently Marc A.) that there IS no point in
continuing further.
That's fine with me, as I was simply curious why you were interested in the
particular movie and you chose not to answer or could not tell me. That's
all. It is quite unimportant to me just as the fact that you cannot mention
any credentials of yourself. John, you are just another person I met in this
world.
Minoru
John Marchioro
> You know, Minoru, based on this sort of exchange (with which Honyaku
> list members will be familiar, since it is fairly typical of your
> style over the years) I sometimes wonder what your purpose in posting
> to these lists is.
And Minoru responded:
> I say:
> So, John, you wish to discuss my purpose of posting to these lists (I
> suppose you mean Honyaku and Not-Honyaku) rather than the movie you
> introduced and movies in general. Does that mean you do not wish to discuss
> about the movies?
>
> OK. That's fine with me.
> Then tell me what you think is the purpose of my posting.
> My purpose of the most recent posting on Not-Honyaku was to satiate my
> curiosity of why you were interested in the particular movie.
> My purpose of the most recent posting on Honyaku was to express my opinion
> that the understanding of a simple and mundane word,徹底, by a poster was
> completely inaccurate and ridiculously wrong. In fact the person is simply
> churning up the meaning of Japanese words into unrecognizable mud. In the
> meanwhile, the zealous moderator, whom I ridiculed once about the literature
> forum he invented as an offshoot of JAT-list which failed miserably, still
> resents me and enjoys the opportunity to exercise zealously the policing
> authority given to him. It's a personal vendetta and unimportant to
> everybody else.
Hmmmmm..... Well, to reference another film, I find something Captain
Queeg-like about this whole approach.
You are incorrect about one thing, though. I did in fact tell you why
I was curious about "There Will Be Blood": It is on a lot of Best 10
Films of the Decade lists, and having just watched it myself I was
genuinely curious to hear what others thought about it, especially the
ending. But perhaps this is because I occasionally like to make such
use of social media.
You, Minoru, seem however to prefer the antisocial form of
interaction. Perhaps venting like this is therapeutic for you, but it
saps the willingness of others to respond, and undermines the purpose
of the list, which is to have some pleasant interaction and even
occasionally learn something from one another.
Well, so be it. As I always tell my daughter, if everyone were exactly
like, it would be a boring world.
And with that happy thought, back to my movie.
John M.
Minoru Mochizuki
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com [mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:21 PM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood
John says:
You are incorrect about one thing, though. I did in fact tell you why
I was curious about "There Will Be Blood": It is on a lot of Best 10
Films of the Decade lists, and having just watched it myself I was
genuinely curious to hear what others thought about it, especially the
ending. But perhaps this is because I occasionally like to make such
use of social media.
I say:
John, to say "genuinely curious to hear what others thought about it, especially the ending" is not telling anything specific. You are still not saying whether you thought the ending is wonderful or boring (and why). You are asking others what they thought of the ending of the movie before you tell them what you thought. Are you afraid of saying out you thought it was wonderful or shitty?
John says:
You, Minoru, seem however to prefer the antisocial form of
interaction. Perhaps venting like this is therapeutic for you, but it
saps the willingness of others to respond, and undermines the purpose
of the list, which is to have some pleasant interaction and even
occasionally learn something from one another.
I say:
John, you are wrong. I am often very cordial and friendly as you experienced when you and your daughter visited us.
At this very moment, however, I am not too friendly to you as you felt. I am simply responding to your comments, an eye for an eye.
John says:
Well, so be it. As I always tell my daughter, if everyone were exactly
like, it would be a boring world.
I say:
John, it is interesting to note that you refer to your daughter so often. Hmm. Your mind seems to be too attached to her. A riddle.
Minoru
John Marchioro
> You are incorrect about one thing, though. I did in fact tell you why
> I was curious about "There Will Be Blood": It is on a lot of Best 10
> Films of the Decade lists, and having just watched it myself I was
> genuinely curious to hear what others thought about it, especially the
> ending. But perhaps this is because I occasionally like to make such
> use of social media.
And Minoru responded:
> John, to say "genuinely curious to hear what others thought about it,
> especially the ending" is not telling anything specific. You are still not
> saying whether you thought the ending is wonderful or boring (and why). You
> are asking others what they thought of the ending of the movie before you
> tell them what you thought. Are you afraid of saying out you thought it was
> wonderful or shitty?
Well, I did say that the ending of the film was quite stunning, didn't
I? And that I was still trying to figure out what to think about it?
And I am still trying to think it through. I do not feel the need to
reach a definitive judgment just yet. I did the same thing when I
asked about "Sicko" (which I still have sitting on top of my TV,
awaiting viewing, hopefully this week). What's the problem with that?
And I also did not and do not want to go into too much detail about
it, so as not to ruin it for those who have not seen the film.
As for your peevish responses on this list, if you are angry at me
about some other matter, please discuss it with me off-list.
Otherwise, please do not disrupt pleasant and engaging discussions
with bilious comments.
John M.
Minoru Mochizuki
I am not so much interested in you to discuss with you off-list.
As I said, I am simply responding on your response to my comment on the list
Minoru
-----Original Message-----
From: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:not-hony...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Marchioro
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:14 AM
To: not-hony...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Redux Rules!] There Will Be Blood