Cruise in Sept.

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mark canterbury

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Apr 11, 2025, 1:01:03 PMApr 11
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I have a 28 Corsair cc
I am reaching out to organize a cruise to the San Juan’s and into Canada in September 2025. For 3-4 weeks

I plan to depart from Anacortes and  would welcome any buddy boats for all or part of the cruise.

I was told that I should contact you through this forum.  Anyone interested can contact me through this email address. 

Thank you,
MC

Eric Lindahl

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Apr 12, 2025, 12:45:30 AMApr 12
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Mark,  You might try and work into your schedule the (BCMS) British Columbia Multihull Society's rendezvous on Labor Day weekend at Port Browning.  They are a fun, welcoming bunch.  We did so one year and had a great time.  We've tried to get back there again but our schedule hasn't let that happen.   We cruise our F31 but being retired don't plan trips very far ahead of time.  Let this group know your dates when you have them firmed up.  Have fun out there.
 
Eric and Marilyn.
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Darren Greenhalgh

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Apr 14, 2025, 12:13:09 PMApr 14
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if you are planning any weekend sails or overnighters in the san juans before you leave for your extended trip there are a few of us who would love to get out and have a small rendezvous .
d

Ginnie Jo Blue

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Apr 14, 2025, 12:49:02 PMApr 14
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Agree! I'd love to meet up with you in September (boat lives in Anacortes, similar to Darren). I know Omar's does, as well, along with a few others. Let us know your plans as they firm up.  

Neil Twilla

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Apr 14, 2025, 2:55:34 PMApr 14
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My wife and I are new to multihulls (and NWMA) and going into our second year with our “new to us” F24mk1. We were actually planning a trip to the San Juans for late August into September. If timing is right we’d definitely like to tag along.

Neil

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On Apr 14, 2025, at 11:49 AM, Ginnie Jo Blue <ginnie...@gmail.com> wrote:



Agree! I'd love to meet up with you in September (boat lives in Anacortes, similar to Darren). I know Omar's does, as well, along with a few others. Let us know your plans as they firm up.  

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mark canterbury

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Apr 14, 2025, 7:42:37 PMApr 14
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Neil, how can get a hold of you. 

My Sched is flexible, however it is my understanding the wind is superior and weather not inclement in September. 



Thank you,
MC
From: northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com <northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Neil Twilla <neil....@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2025 11:55:21 AM
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Subject: Re: [NWMA] Cruise in Sept.
 

Eric Lindahl

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Apr 15, 2025, 10:43:59 PMApr 15
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Sounds good Neil the more the merrier.
Eric 

Eric Lindahl

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Apr 15, 2025, 10:45:33 PMApr 15
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Sept is a good weather month Mark but could get a bit colder overnight.
Eric 

mark canterbury

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Jul 10, 2025, 9:09:59 PMJul 10
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Reaching out again to the members as they had requested to meet up or accompany as a buddy boat (s).  We are nearing departure for this extended cruise.  Members had requested a little bit of the itinerary as we got closer to departure.  Currently we will be departing Anacortes on 9/3/25. First night will be a short run up to Eagle Harbor, second day a bit longer and hopefully current will give us a push to Sucia, third night at Stuart island in Reid Harbor.  Fourth Night at East Sound, then the Fifth Spencer Spit,  Ending first week in Friday Harbor..

Starting the Second Week I will be headed North with stops in the  lower Gulf Islands, crossing the Strait then up to Malibu Rapids and chatterbox falls

As I initially indicated,  I would welcome any buddy boats for all or any part of the cruise. At this point we have one confirmed buddy boat for the first week   I would also welcome any  input you may have.. 
. 
You can contact me at this email address.

Thank you,
MC
From: mark canterbury <mark.d.c...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2025 10:00:57 AM
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Subject: Cruise in Sept.
 

mark canterbury

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Aug 19, 2025, 7:27:15 PMAug 19
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Nearing the final countdown for the Sept cruise ,  will be departing  Anacortes on Sept 3.  Scott has graciously agreed to help with the stepping , i've never done a water based raising of the mast before, so any additional bodies  will be appreciated.

also still looking for any buddy boats for any parts of the cruise..

Finally I'm looking for anchor recommendations:  The boat is a 28 corsair cc,  I've got a 7.5 kg Bruce on 20 ft of chain and 150 ft of rode..  My question to the group is,  Will that be sufficient in desolation sound and the gulf islands, or should i consider something else?

You can reach me at 509 994-4740.  if you would like to discuss any aspect of my email.

Many Thanks 
MC

Ginnie Jo Blue

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Aug 20, 2025, 1:10:17 PMAug 20
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What do y’all take north for your cruising anchors? I have a 27lb Vulcan and love, love it. I don’t remember what I had on Rehab (I’m sure Todd does). It also held well. Does anyone use a Bruce in the Salish sea? Mark sails out of Spokane. 

Ginnie Jo

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Darren Greenhalgh

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Aug 20, 2025, 1:25:54 PMAug 20
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mark, would love to meet up with you in sept.  - probably toward the weekend.  need to get out on the boat.  its been too long.  you cant go wrong with a vulcan ginnie.  those are great anchors.  i prefer any type of spade.  i have even held my stern on my dragonfly with a dingy spade from mantus marine.  it might weigh 5 pounds - did not move even in strong currents.  something magical about spade anchors.
d

Colin Lindsay

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Aug 20, 2025, 1:32:25 PMAug 20
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We love our Rocna. I think it is only 13lbs but so far we haven't ever dragged (24 ft TrailerTri 720 weighing about 2700 lbs when loaded for cruising.)

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Jeff Oaklief

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Aug 20, 2025, 1:35:38 PMAug 20
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I bought a Rocna… largest that would fit in the well.  I like it and it works well in most bottom conditions.
A guy in PT does testing… search YouTube for SV Panope.  Pretty comprehensive.  

Jeff
Ruf Duck
F9R

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On Aug 20, 2025, at 10:25 AM, Darren Greenhalgh <4green...@gmail.com> wrote:

mark, would love to meet up with you in sept.  - probably toward the weekend.  need to get out on the boat.  its been too long.  you cant go wrong with a vulcan ginnie.  those are great anchors.  i prefer any type of spade.  i have even held my stern on my dragonfly with a dingy spade from mantus marine.  it might weigh 5 pounds - did not move even in strong currents.  something magical about spade anchors.

Bill Gibson

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Aug 20, 2025, 7:39:40 PMAug 20
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The SV Panope videos are amazing, but a massive time sink!  Good for falling asleep to (I know!) Look for the recent summary videos.  He has been finding that. Modern spade anchors without a roll bar can fail to hold after a direction change in soft mud (Sucia, I think).

I bought a 21lb Mantus M1 (with roll bar) for my 4,500 lb Dragonfly 28P based on his findings.  I bought a 21lb anchor in part because I don't think I could lift anything heavier, also because I believe there has to be some benefit (in term of scaling down) from using one these efficient modern anchors. 

The DF has no bow roller, but I have come up with a system to use a snatch block attached either to the bow or bowsprit to lead the rode back to the cockpit, to a winch that I can put an eWincher on to haul it in.  The anchor is stowed in a bracket inside a float with rode in a bag (20'  of 1/4" chain and 200' 1/2" nylon) .  Deploying it is going to take a few minutes. 

It's all a little theoretical at this point as I've been too busy racing to try it!

SV Panope has a nice video showing him anchoring his 15,000lb sailboat (30' ??) in 15 kts using the 2.5 lb Mantus M1 dinghy anchor mentioned above.  21 lb seems overkill by comparison.   A concern is whether I'll actually be able to break it out! 

Regarding anchoring in Desolation, depths there are often 30'+, sometimes 40/50' close to shore.  Consider getting a 200+ foot floating line for rigging a shore-tie. 

Bill

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Subject: Re: [NWMA] Re: Cruise in Sept.
 

mark canterbury

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Aug 20, 2025, 10:10:39 PMAug 20
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Bill, thanks for your input.  I have watched a number of the SV Panope videos  on Ruf Ducks reccomendation,  the Bruce doesn’t fair well in his evaluations,  I’m about to pull the trigger on a Vulcan 9, which did very well in his test for the approx 20# group. 

I have not had any issue pulling up the Bruce but in anticipation I have a line to attach to the rode running it back to a cabin top winch to assist getting off the seabed. 

Thanks again for your input,  I’m loving this group and how helpful you all have been!




Thank you,
MC
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Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2025 4:39:36 PM

Shaun Heublein

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Aug 21, 2025, 2:23:52 PMAug 21
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Not sure if it was mentioned but I didn't see a long line to stern tie with on your list. I would definently bring one of those. There are many places up there where a ~200' stern tie line is very nice. We use an old spin sheet (~180') and wish it was a little longer. 
It will open up alot of small anchorages and places where you have to anchor very close to shore where it gets deep fast. We anchored in a place where we stern tied 30' from shore and the anchor off the bow was in ~150' of water.

Shaun
F31
Tri to be Nice 

Benjamin Carver

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Aug 21, 2025, 2:46:15 PMAug 21
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I'll second Shaun. A stern tie is pretty much required in desolation sound, especially in the good anchorages. I used 100' of dynema I had left over, and that worked fine. 

Jeff Oaklief

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Aug 21, 2025, 2:58:56 PMAug 21
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If your lazy… take twice the length so you can double back to the boat… saving a trip to shore in the morning…

Jeff

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On Aug 21, 2025, at 11:46 AM, Benjamin Carver <rhea...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll second Shaun. A stern tie is pretty much required in desolation sound, especially in the good anchorages. I used 100' of dynema I had left over, and that worked fine. 

Ginnie Jo Blue

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Aug 21, 2025, 3:18:34 PMAug 21
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Yep. We initially had 200 feet and are now happy with 300ft since it sometimes allows us to double back to the boat. I stow my stern line on a black plastic spool you can snag for free from a marine supply shop (what they stow their lines on for sale). Fits 300ft perfectly. I then tie a PVC pipe between my stern pushpits with the spool running free on the PVC. Makes for nice spooling action and storage. Thanks to Darren for this tip!

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Andy Inglis

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Aug 21, 2025, 4:04:40 PMAug 21
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One more tweak for you lazy shore-tie people. I just saw this hack, haven’t tried it, but it looks awesome. Go to 17:10 on this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsjY2b41jBg&t=1125s  It shows how to use an arborist friction saver, and looks like an ideal way to retrieve the line. 
Cheers 
Andy

On Aug 21, 2025, at 12:18 PM, Ginnie Jo Blue <ginnie...@gmail.com> wrote:



Mark Canterbury

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Aug 21, 2025, 4:11:09 PMAug 21
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Thanks all , I pulled the trigger on the Vulcan 9,  I have 400 ft of 3/8 poly for stern tie! 


MC

Jeff Oaklief

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Aug 21, 2025, 4:11:43 PMAug 21
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Love it!

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On Aug 21, 2025, at 1:04 PM, Andy Inglis <andyin...@gmail.com> wrote:



Colin Lindsay

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Aug 21, 2025, 4:21:54 PMAug 21
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nice, that works better and is probably better for the tree also. And demonstrated behind a sweet plywood Farrier/TrailerTri 720... The video segment starts around 17:00. The guy on the TT720 "Try Flying" who shows off his stern tie with friction saver is Mark Hastings, he runs the TrailerTri list on groups.io. He has made many modifications to his trimaran, like adding the sugar scoop stern extension. Let's fly him in from Australia for a presentation!

Jonathan Kallay

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Aug 21, 2025, 5:58:53 PMAug 21
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The friction saver is neat. But anchorages in Desolation Sound tend to have stern-tie points bolted into the rocks above the high tide line. They're marked with bright yellow tags and each feature a chain from the rock anchor to a ring down near the low tide mark. Run your line through the ring back to the boat for low-friction releasing.

From: northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com <northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Colin Lindsay <colinm....@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2025 1:21:37 PM

Northwest Multihull Association Membership Officer

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Sep 10, 2025, 11:36:16 AM (7 days ago) Sep 10
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On Wed, Aug 20, 2025, at 16:39, Bill Gibson wrote:
The SV Panope videos are amazing, but a massive time sink! 

New to me, I love it - the Project Farm of boat anchors.


Good for falling asleep to (I know!) Look for the recent summary videos.  He has been finding that. Modern spade anchors without a roll bar can fail to hold after a direction change in soft mud (Sucia, I think)

Good to know - if I wanted an anchor that I was just hoping would reset after a direction change I'd use the Fortress. There are SO many anchorages around here that aren't very sheltered from wind, and thanks to  _Convergence Zone_ we're basically guaranteed a perfect 180 degree shift if it happens.


I bought a 21lb Mantus M1 (with roll bar) for my 4,500 lb Dragonfly 28P based on his findings.  I bought a 21lb anchor in part because I don't think I could lift anything heavier, also because I believe there has to be some benefit (in term of scaling down) from using one these efficient modern anchors. 

I bought that Mantus based on a friend's research and recommendations, and the fact that Shaun & Jess have one on Tri To Be Nice. I think I could handle more, but I really don't want to, and more often than not Joanna deploys it. 

I'm typically the one to retrieve it and as I mentioned in the meeting last night - retrieving it after a ~25kn gust night in very muddy Elger bay took 100% of my strength, deadlifting it straight (with the legs, not the back!) off the bow net. I'm lucky I didn't break something!

We did have it drag in sand at Hornby Island Tribune Bay this year - not very far, but I was hoping/expecting it would dig in faster than it did. I think we didn't throttle up very much in reverse when trying to set it initially -  that probably would have set it just fine and we wouldn't have noticed the initial drag before it set.

Anchoring under sail during WA360 was a new challenge - I definitely lost some sleep knowing that the anchor wasn't really set well if we glide into the anchorage without much wind, drop it and hope.

The DF has no bow roller,

The Corsairs have a vestigial roller that I think is only intended for raising/lowering the mast using the trailer winch - but I think it would probably work for rope rode in a pinch.


but I have come up with a system to use a snatch block attached either to the bow or bowsprit to lead the rode back to the cockpit, to a winch that I can put an eWincher on to haul it in.  The anchor is stowed in a bracket inside a float with rode in a bag (20'  of 1/4" chain and 200' 1/2" nylon) .  Deploying it is going to take a few minutes. 

After seeing this thread and talking to some folks, I may have overshot with 50' of chain on the mantus. My Fortress has 15.
 
Either way - I think this sounds like a good idea after that Elger Bay experience.. but I'm typically not lifting the anchor until I'm at chain. So now I need a chain hook attached to rope, reattaching it repeatedly.. I'm going to have to give this some thought. 


It's all a little theoretical at this point as I've been too busy racing to try it!

SV Panope has a nice video showing him anchoring his 15,000lb sailboat (30' ??) in 15 kts using the 2.5 lb Mantus M1 dinghy anchor mentioned above.  21 lb seems overkill by comparison.   A concern is whether I'll actually be able to break it out! 

Valid concern, I promise.


Regarding anchoring in Desolation, depths there are often 30'+, sometimes 40/50' close to shore.  Consider getting a 200+ foot floating line for rigging a shore-tie. 

We got 250 feet of rope in addition to the 50 feet of chain after last year's experiences up there - but we never ended up anchoring in more than ~30 feet. We were lucky I think, and went in tiny pockets of shallow shown/mentioned on the charts - though worth noting the charts in Pendrell Cove and Teakerne Arm were.. a lot less accurate than I'm used to! The shallow spot was there.. but 100 feet away from where the chart said. Or surprisingly shallowER. Or less shallow. Who can say?

We were told that the "standard" in Alaska is 100 ft of chain + depth rather than a ratio.. yikes. 

This much rope gets annoying to handle, particularly the cheaper/standard twisted braid stuff. It self-tangles really really easily. So we got Samson Harbormaster double-braid - spendy, but it is SO much nicer to work with.

So much so that I'm thinking about using double-braid for the stern tie line.. but first thing would be to get a working spool setup like Ginnie Jo described and see how that goes.


Paul English

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Sep 10, 2025, 12:01:04 PM (7 days ago) Sep 10
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On the anchor thread I want to mention bridles - as we'd never bothered rigging one and suffered through a lot of tacking at anchor. (Actually Joanna enjoys it and thinks it helps her sleep!)

Ginnie Jo showed us hers and that finally convinced us to give it a try and wow - it REALLY helps. 

Like Ginnie Jo, I used "some rope I had around" but it turned out to be dyneema, and that turns out to probably be better with a mostly-nylon rode setup as the nylon provides plenty of stretch, and for the side-to-side motion you don't want stretch: https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2018/07/dyneema-anchor-bridle.html

Drew Frye does a lot of testing for Practical Sailor magazine, owns a trimaran, so considers multihull needs and literally wrote the book: https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-Anchors-Drew-Frye/dp/1948494078

As well as a many useful articles eg: https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/anchoring-mooring/patience-pays-for-anchoring-in-mud TL;DR - back down slowly in mud, don't go all the way to full throttle and it will dig in deep.

Eric Lindahl

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Sep 10, 2025, 4:26:44 PM (7 days ago) Sep 10
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Paul it wasn't clear from your comments whether you use a technique I learned about to break an anchor loose from the bottom.  It is to pull up the rode til its straight up and down then pull tight and cleat it off for a couple minutes or maybe a lot more.  It should begin to break loose, especially in wavy or rising tide conditions.  After a few minutes see if you can pull it up tighter a bit more.  Continue til it breaks free.  If this doesn't work sometimes it helps to motor around it in a circle.  This always works for me, except that one time ........in Tenedos Bay..... where I snagged someones abandoned 5/16" anchor chain that was wrapped about a large tree's rootball. 
 
I used the charter boat's windless and two halyards to haul that mess to the surface where I tied it off to the bow cleat.  I repositioned the two halyards and a line around the windless drum to the offending anchor chain to lift it above and clear of my anchor's flukes.  I so wanted to salvage that bright new 5/16"galvanized chain but the load was so heavy I was concerned about pulling the mast down with the halyards I was using or ripping the windless out of the deck, and I was so beat from the process, that I forlornly let it drift back down into the deep like some tentacled, gangely sea monster, ready to foul someone else's anchor.  There must be miles of abandoned anchor rodes hooked to old logging debris all over our cruising grounds.
Eric 
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Ginnie Jo Blue

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Sep 10, 2025, 6:59:04 PM (7 days ago) Sep 10
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Eric— I can imagine you being so sad about this! Esp. after all that hard work. 

Paul— Drew Frye taught me everything I know about anchoring. His was one of the first sailing books I bought. And I guess I lucked out, since dyneema is generally what I have laying around ;). I love my simple bridle setup. Yes, the spool is GREAT and paired with the fancy line that doesn’t kink. When my anchor gives me any guff, I just tie it off and then drive over it. I hadn’t thought to go the retired-I-have-time-on-my-hands-and-no-kids-harassing-me route that Eric describes above. Sounds…leisurely, 😂. 



Duncan Thomson

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Sep 10, 2025, 8:28:33 PM (7 days ago) Sep 10
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Curious - how does your bridle attach to the rode?  

In my case I tie off the rode to a cleat on one bow, then I pull up about 10 ft of rode, tie an alpine butterfly loop in it, and clip that with a big old steel biner to a line running to the other bow cleat.  I’ve tried other methods that don’t require the biner, but this approach seems to work well and it’s easy to adjust.  

Duncan

Ps alpine butterfly is a climbing knot, sailors probably have a different name for it.  


Ginnie Jo Blue

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Sep 10, 2025, 8:39:09 PM (7 days ago) Sep 10
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Former climber here ;)

Loop of line with a double fisherman’s (because I don’t splice lines yet) attaches to the rode with a prussik knot. End of the prussik gets heavy metal biner. A separate length of line gets a figure 8 at midpoint. Figure 8 clipped to biner. Dead ends of figure 8 to my float cleats. Extra length in that line in case I want to ease the bridle in heavy conditions. Rode is slack above the prussik and tied to bow cleat. This is from Frye’s book, who was also a climber. I LOVE the prussik!

Paul English

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Sep 11, 2025, 1:26:24 AM (7 days ago) Sep 11
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On Wed, Sep 10, 2025, at 13:26, Eric Lindahl wrote:
Paul it wasn't clear from your comments whether you use a technique I learned about to break an anchor loose from the bottom.  It is to pull up the rode til its straight up and down then pull tight and cleat it off for a couple minutes or maybe a lot more.  It should begin to break loose, especially in wavy or rising tide conditions. 

Nope - definitely wasn't using that tip and it is a good one! 


After a few minutes see if you can pull it up tighter a bit more.  Continue til it breaks free. 

I think during WA360 we didn't have patience for this - though I should have done something that didn't risk injury like using a winch.


If this doesn't work sometimes it helps to motor around it in a circle.  This always works for me, except that one time ........in Tenedos Bay..... where I snagged someones abandoned 5/16" anchor chain that was wrapped about a large tree's rootball. 

Oof - I've heard of motoring in a circle used to corkscrew an anchor further down, though in a powerboat context. The 9.9 probably can't generate enough power to do that!

 
I used the charter boat's windless and two halyards to haul that mess to the surface where I tied it off to the bow cleat.  I repositioned the two halyards and a line around the windless drum to the offending anchor chain to lift it above and clear of my anchor's flukes.  I so wanted to salvage that bright new 5/16"galvanized chain but the load was so heavy I was concerned about pulling the mast down with the halyards I was using or ripping the windless out of the deck, and I was so beat from the process, that I forlornly let it drift back down into the deep like some tentacled, gangely sea monster, ready to foul someone else's anchor.  There must be miles of abandoned anchor rodes hooked to old logging debris all over our cruising grounds.

For sure - and not many with the fancy side scanning sonar!

Paul English

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Sep 11, 2025, 1:35:38 AM (7 days ago) Sep 11
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On Wed, Sep 10, 2025, at 17:38, Ginnie Jo Blue wrote:
Former climber here ;)

Loop of line with a double fisherman’s (because I don’t splice lines yet) attaches to the rode with a prussik knot. End of the prussik gets heavy metal biner. A separate length of line gets a figure 8 at midpoint. Figure 8 clipped to biner. Dead ends of figure 8 to my float cleats. Extra length in that line in case I want to ease the bridle in heavy conditions. Rode is slack above the prussik and tied to bow cleat. This is from Frye’s book, who was also a climber. I LOVE the prussik!

I misunderstood Ginnie Jo's instructions and we did it the Extra Effort way. We took a single long line (probably 40 feet) and did an _end line_ prusik.. by feeding 1/2 the rope through repeatedly. It worked. The set point could easily be adjusted by loosening the prusik (easy with no load) and sliding it along the line - but also we didn't need to adjust it often during our cruise. So we just left it in place, and gathered up the bridle so it wouldn't drag out under the boat underway. 

We will *definitely* be doing a "normal prusik" with a spliced loop next time around, and then carabiners to that. 

Joanna and I have done some splicing now, and knitting/crochet/sewing/fabric arts oriented Clara took to it very quickly and does requests for me. I've got a fantastic set of continuous spinnaker sheets with a soft shackle end poked out of the jacket at the halfway point. That involved running the splice all the way back along 1/2 the length and some careful thought. Very very nice.


Eric Lindahl

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Sep 11, 2025, 1:05:01 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Ginnie Jo,  I  love your long hyphenated description of my current life status.  Yep, seeing such a nice bit of kit drift away into the murky depths is difficult.
Eric 

Eric Lindahl

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Sep 11, 2025, 1:09:15 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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If you are on one of the park buoys I tie a short bridle leg to one ama, the other short leg to the hull to keep the buoy from banging the boat in no wind or funky wind against tide situations. 
Eric 

Eric Lindahl

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Sep 11, 2025, 1:13:23 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Paul, maybe you are aware but continuous spinnaker sheets have been a problem in some instances of high wind, gotta-release-now situations.  I forget the details but some folks won't have them.  Better Google fu than mine may find those discussions.
Eric 
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Paul English

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Sep 11, 2025, 2:01:54 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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I'll look it up but I've raced with continuous spin sheets for years on monohulls in "broachy" conditions I wouldn't even fly on my boat - even in a race, particularly double-handed as I've been racing recently.

I've had SO many assholes (or hockles, as they are politely called). Most commonly on the now-lazy sheet during a gybe - I suspect well all have. That can be a big problem, but IMHO there should be 2 people working on it - the helm should be watching for this to happen, and should definitely ALWAYS make sure everything is ready to head up before they do. And the crew - even if there is only one person and they're actively pulling in on the new active sheet, should immediately notice resistance and as long as they've got any experience.. immediately know what the problem is, notify the helm and work on it. All that risk is much less if you've got 2 crew - one to release and make sure it flows freely, and one to pull in on the new active, or with one crew if the helm does the release and monitoring.

I can see how just one singular sheet might help - you have to walk it around and re-rig it on every gybe I know some sail that way and you'd be effectively actively managing the release and not pulling in on the new active sheet until the entire release is free.

But I can't really see how a continuous spin sheet would be any different from 2 separate equal sheets, independently secured to the clew - if something goes bad and you need to release the active sheet - an asshole can be a huge problem and I've had that happen. And for the lazy side to fly free it needs to flow out of the hardware AND all the way around the boat without trouble.. but that is going to be the case for 2 separate sheets just as much as for a continuous.

The cockpit (and in my case - pfd knife) are there for good reason! But neither a knife nor a crew undoing an asshole are likely to be fast enough to prevent capsize on a multihull in a spinnaker situation like that - either the helm heads down fast enough or you're upside down. Which is why I'm too conservative about when I fly spin on my boat to win races.. so far. Both of us are relatively inexperienced at the helm - despite years of racing, I'd barely helmed ANY sailboat, and I think never in a race(!) because the owner typically wants to do that. 

I'm okay with that and Joanna and I are slowly, safely building up skill and confidence under spinnaker.

Still - I'll look it up, safety is very important and I can always cut my continuous sheet in half if it seems worthwhile.

Jeff Oaklief

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Sep 11, 2025, 2:18:58 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Monohulls - different - no upside down component in a broach.

Jeff Oaklief

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2025, at 11:01 AM, Paul English <tall...@engmooski.net> wrote:



Paul English

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Sep 11, 2025, 4:23:38 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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On Thu, Sep 11, 2025, at 11:18, Jeff Oaklief wrote:
Monohulls - different - no upside down component in a broach.

100% - that is why I'm pretty happy/comfortable really pushing it on a monohull in conditions I'd never consider flying on a tri. In big races on monos "we" (the skipper usually) decided to douse after it was "too much" typically after a _more than one_ broach, particularly if the wind wasn't expected to die. After all - the first broach or two might just have been error! The douse tends to be pretty messy, and slower than normal in those conditions, but sailing without a spin can still be faster than broaching over and over. 

One design racing incentivizes some of that decision making - if all the others are flying, you basically have to or you will lose - but in big wind if everyone else is dousing, you'd better do it too or you'll lose then too.

But we don't have any of those considerations on PHRF multihulls, unless we switch to ORC.

I recall Shaun & Jess saying they put their spin up for the start of RTC one year in a big blow and found they couldn't head down enough to feel safe - so they doused in a bit of shelter from Doe Island. I'd rather never put the spin up in the first place than find out afterwards that it was too much, but I expect it will happen sooner or later, unless I stop trying to race!

Vincent DePillis

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Sep 11, 2025, 6:37:17 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Hi ginnie-  would you mind putting up a diagram of your set up?   With links to animated illustrations of the knots?  And drone footage of a IRL deployment?


Vincent DePillis

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Sep 11, 2025, 6:42:52 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Wayne ericksen on almond joy blamed the continuous spin sheet for his capsize.

I think we may have an account of that event on the website.  Ill look


Ginnie Jo Blue

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Sep 11, 2025, 7:13:12 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Well, Vince, since you're kicking down a vacuum sealer (don't get too excited, anyone, it's for food, not for foam), I did make this nice drawing for Mark, but no drone, as of yet (that trade would be more like...a carbon fiber winch handle holder of a deal): 

image.png
 

 

Eric Lindahl

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Sep 11, 2025, 7:33:43 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Sounds like you are doing/considering  the right things.  I'd be interested if you find an example of why there is reason for concern.  
Eric 

Jim Miller

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Sep 11, 2025, 7:40:43 PM (6 days ago) Sep 11
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Yes . Vince and Eric. I remember that event. Continuous spinn sheets are something to stay away from.....I never used them.

Peter Lucas

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Sep 12, 2025, 8:21:26 AM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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Wayne Erickson flipped "Almond Joy" (many years ago) overpowered under spinnaker. He attributed the capsize to the continuous spinnaker sheet. It prevented them from emergently dumping the sheet as the capsize began. A knife is just not fast enough.
IIRC the rudder kicked up after hitting debris. The boat rounded up, apparent wind speed increased, and apparent wind angle went to the beam.

Eric Lindahl

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Sep 12, 2025, 11:36:15 AM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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Thanks Peter,  I remember that story, thanks for reminding me and filling in the details.  I think Wayne said the causation of that incident, like you mentioned, was hitting a 4x6 beam with the rudder, probably dagger board too.  I feel fortunate to know and known some of our club's early and charter members.  Hopefully we can maintain our institutional knowledge.
Eric 
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Martyn Adams

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Sep 12, 2025, 12:49:59 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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Agreed with Peter and Eric.   I understand that continuous sheets are faster and simpler (?) most of the time.  The operative word is “most".
I wouldn’t have them on my boat and did a careful check on the weather when on someone else’s boat with them.   Benign weather no issues…fun weather = more cautious 
Cheers,  
Martyn Adams 

On Sep 12, 2025, at 11:36 AM, 'Eric Lindahl' via Northwest Multihull Association <northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Northwest Multihull Association Membership Officer

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Sep 12, 2025, 1:44:29 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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Ah thank you all!

Does anyone know the details of how it acted differently than two separate sheets (both, presumably tied on to the clew) would have done?

Jeff Oaklief

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Sep 12, 2025, 2:24:49 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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It acts differently because you can not dump the power if the line is continuous or separate sheets with knotted ends.  

I suppose that you could base your loop length on the spin totally flagging... but that would be more line than you want to manage.  Even a flagging spin has an overturning moment (albeit quite a bit less).

Even if you are not worried about flipping because you can not depower... it is nice to be able to let the lines run when you shrimp a jibe at speed.  Saves you wear and tear and $ on spin repair.

Jeff Oaklief

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/northwest-multihull-association/157e858a-efe4-4644-bc27-ebc30859309e%40app.fastmail.com.

Colin Lindsay

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Sep 12, 2025, 2:26:18 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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Is the point of the prussik and carabiner that you can leave the prussik part tied onto the rode all the time? I guess there is a typical anchoring depth that we aim for every time, so it usually wouldn't need to be adjusted by much. Then with the carabiner you don't need to retie the hitch every time you anchor?

When we got our TT720 in 2021 it sailed around at anchor so I followed the advice in Mark Johnson's book "Anchoring & Mooring the Cruising Multihull." (Amazing that that specific a book title exists. Let me know if anyone wants to borrow it, it has all kinds of advice about winches and chains and stuff that didn't apply to our small trimaran.)

Following the book's advice, I first installed closable bow chocks on the ama bows. Then I got a stainless steel ring and tied two lines to it that run through the chocks on the ama bows to the deck cleats at the forward beams. A third shorter line is also always tied to the ring. While sailing all of that is coiled and lashed to the bow pulpit. After anchoring, I tie the shorter line from the ring to the rode with a rolling hitch and let out rode until the harness takes the strain and the rode is slack. I was aware of Drew Frye's dyneema recommendation but decided to temporarily use whatever lines came with the boat. I found two that were extra long so I could adjust longer in worse weather. I also use it on state park moorings, shortened pretty tight so that the buoy can't possibly bonk a hull. Even with relatively stretchy rope it works great. But thinking about this prussik and caribiner idea, I can see it saving a little bit of time when anchoring and reanchoring. 

I also discovered that I can use the excess harness line left at the beam cleats as a makeshift barber hauler to pull the genoa sheets outboard when sailing downind. 

No drone shots, sorry, but here is a link to some pictures from the book and of our setup in use.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QaY3p9Q48yedRD6E6


On Thu, Sep 11, 2025, 4:13 PM Ginnie Jo Blue <ginnie...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, Vince, since you're kicking down a vacuum sealer (don't get too excited, anyone, it's for food, not for foam), I did make this nice drawing for Mark, but no drone, as of yet (that trade would be more like...a carbon fiber winch handle holder of a deal): 

image.png
 

 

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Bill Gibson

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Sep 12, 2025, 2:57:01 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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I've used a Davis Line Grabber ($24/pair at Fisheries), a short Dyneema double ended 'loop', with a prussik knot to attach bridle to rode.  A carabiner to attach the bridle would improve the solution.  

I'm not sure I understand the comment regarding extending the bridle in a storm.  Is that in addition to lengthening the rode or in place of?  I would have thought you want more rode out but no change to the bridle?   I can see just adding another line grabber further down the rode so you quickly detach the bridle, let out more rode, then reattach the bridle to the next line grabber.  This would be quicker than moving the loop/prussik.  

I have found several uses for the line grabbers on the boat, which are surprisingly inexpensive! 

Bill

From: northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com <northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Colin Lindsay <colinm....@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2025 11:26:01 AM
To: northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com <northwest-multi...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [NWMA] Re: Cruise in Sept.
 

Duncan Thomson

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Sep 12, 2025, 3:05:20 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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I think the prussik and biner, or in my case butterfly knot and biner, are just the same as putting a rolling hitch on the rode.  6 of one, half dozen of the other, I just happen to have that biner on board since I bought the boat. 

Colin Lindsay

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Sep 12, 2025, 4:58:04 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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Interesting, I had never heard of a line grabber. They do look very useful.

 The comment about weather and lengthening the bridle is because, theoretically, a longer bridle is more effective at stopping yawing action as the angle of the lines off the bows approaches straight forward, and it is thought that even independent of scope, yawing action makes dragging anchor much more likely by increasing the peak loads and varying the pull direction. But there are diminishing returns as you lengthen the harness sides and in practice we also want as short a scope as is safe for swinging near other boats or in limited anchorages. Sometimes in very shallow water I'm only letting out a few boat lengths total scope and a good long bridle would be half of that. Also, I try and keep the bridle from laying on the bottom and getting muddy or damaged, so I'd rather have its usual length a little shorter and lengthen it if we're still yawing in wind gusts. I'm still experimenting with the setup, I only installed the bow chocks on and started experimenting in late 2023.

Letting out more rode and then more bridle is a nice way to increase scope without first having to haul in the harness (momentarily shorten scope!) and move the attachment point, but I only have about 15' extra to add to our "standard" length. 

Wayne Erickson

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Sep 12, 2025, 5:03:52 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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The use of continuous spinnaker sheets is one of the causes of the capsize of my F27 Almond Joy. when rudder control was lost due to hitting a log at high speed. being able to release the sheets would have allowed the boat to round up without the spinnaker pulling the boat over as it rounded up while taking down the chute. The convivence of a faster jibe is defiantly not worth the expense of having the boat capsize. DON'T use a continuous spin sheet. Look in archives of the NW multihull club for the story of the Capsize of Almond Joy Wayne Erickson Skipper

Northwest Multihull Association Membership Officer

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Sep 12, 2025, 5:08:49 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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My brain just isn't getting this sorry - either way I've got an "active" and a "lazy" sheet - the active one in hand, or on a winch (and then in a hand - never cleated in the spicy situations), the lazy one routed around the bow through a block on the opposite side and resting in the cockpit with enough tail resting their to reach to pull around for a gybe.

No extra tail on the lazy - a few feet so it's weight is enough to keep it in the cockpit, against gravity and a bit of bouncing.. but if bit of it gets in the water it will get sucked into the water, no biggie to retrieve.

Good rope discipline means always keeping the (long) active tail flaked and ready to run, as well as the short lazy tail if there is enough to do so and of course no stopper knots.

Now a situation arises and whoever is handling the active sheet "blows" it - they've got most of the tail on their side now, so it is their responsibility to ensure it runs fully free - any hockles could be big trouble. 

The lazy sheet meanwhile - does have about 12 feet (beam length, plus some extra feet resting in the cockpit) that need to run through a block that is situated very far away from the crew managing the active sheet, who has their hands full and isn't focused on it - could be a problem. Plus the length running up to the bow and back around to the clew on the active side.  But all of this is true whether it is 2 separate sheets or just one continuous sheet.

And that separation between the two sheets is waaaaay out at the clew of the sail - now far away from the boat as the sail starts to flog. But the clew wasn't particularly reachable even as the situation developed - out away from the boat on the active side, and on the "low" side to boot.

So how does having them as 2 separate ropes that knot at the clew, versus one continuous rope that knots at the clew help resolve the situation? A knife may not be fast enough, but nobody can reach any of those knots, let alone untie them fast enough to help.

Vincent DePillis

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Sep 12, 2025, 11:32:09 PM (5 days ago) Sep 12
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Never used continuous, but intuitively seems to me that if you completely blow the active sheet in the continuous set up, you gotta drag a bunch of lazy sheet around the forestay and the weather shroud, right?

Nigel Oswald

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Sep 13, 2025, 12:31:05 AM (5 days ago) Sep 13
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I’ve never not used continuous sheets.  They have to be long enough to be blown, you should be able to almost fully blow without it pulling the windward sheet through the cockpit (you choose where that point is with the length of the sheets).  Then there is less line in the cockpit to get snagged on people’s feet and other lines etc.  I think you’re just trading one risk for another, but one is cleaner and faster 🤷‍♂️

Martyn Adams

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Sep 13, 2025, 8:59:57 AM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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IIRC, the problem was lack of a complete line release.  
 F27, 3 experienced crew, returning home after a long weekend of racing, under full main and spinnaker.   Hit log, sheared dagger board and kicked or disabled rudder.   Boat was fine until they tried to ease the spin sheet which fouled.  Main sail dominated and began rounding the boat up.  Incomplete spinnaker release tripped the boat (pitch poled).
Hindsight would be to dump the main but most people would take the spinnaker out of the equation.   Would have been scary but likely survivable if the spinnaker had released completely.
Line maintenance with 2 spinnaker sheets would have kept them clear to run (only 1 sheet needs to be free).  With the continuous sheet both sides need to be free (twice the friction and twice the likelihood that something will foul).
The good thing was, they only lost the boat. One of the crew nearly died. Wayne is a good friend and thanks to him, a valuable lesson was both taught and learned and now taught again.
Cheers,
Martyn Adams 

On Sep 12, 2025, at 1:44 PM, Northwest Multihull Association Membership Officer <nwma_member...@engmooski.net> wrote:



Mark Dix

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Sep 13, 2025, 11:01:21 AM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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Dan Newland of Port Townsend was a speaker at the Wooden Boat Festival.  He's a senior guy with lifelong experience and wins in racing monohulls, much of it singlehanded.  He recommends using individual spin sheets.  He lets the tail of the sheet trail in the water behind the boat, so it can't tangle.  No knot in the end of the sheet.  Didn't discuss any significance of added drag in the water.

Mark Dix

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/northwest-multihull-association/1197333E-2790-4604-BFC3-9B6D489DC15B%40gmail.com.

Peter Lucas

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Sep 13, 2025, 11:24:22 AM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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Sure, if the continuous spinnaker sheet is long enough, when you emergently "blow" the active sheet, it can run out far enough without needing to "borrow" line from the lazy sheet. But that sort of defeats the purpose of a continuous sheet.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/northwest-multihull-association/F481EB60-5F53-45E8-92FA-87BE991464F5%40aol.com.

Nigel Oswald

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Sep 13, 2025, 12:15:42 PM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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I don’t think its that black and white, when in the conditions you need to blow, the clew is typically fairly far forward, so not that much line is needed to “blow the kite”.  Not much is “borrowed”.

Either way, as with everything, there are an array of options from inside sheeted continuous sheets, to outside sheeted individual sheets that you can throw overboard (as you can with halyards) and everyone can choose their comfort level depending on what they are prioritizing and their experience level, I would just push back that one option is risk free while the other carries all the risk - all options have their pros, cons and risks/risk mitigations that make them right for one boat/crew/scenario and less ideal for another.


cheers

Nige

Vincent DePillis

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Sep 13, 2025, 12:34:57 PM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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Seems like a judicious take.

Andy Inglis

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Sep 13, 2025, 12:51:40 PM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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Kind of two threads going on here. On my boat, if you lengthen the bridle while at anchor you defeat the bridle advantage and the boat starts sailing around on the anchor again. I recall reading somewhere that there is a “Golden Ratio” for bridle length to distance between the ama cleats and the length of the bridle legs was less than 1.5x the beam. 
I generally just tie the rode to one aka near the ama. 

On Sep 13, 2025, at 6:34 PM, Vincent DePillis <vincent....@gmail.com> wrote:



Northwest Multihull Association Membership Officer

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Sep 13, 2025, 1:32:13 PM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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OMG, my brain finally clicked here. Sorry for being so dense!

I think what everyone hears/means (except me) with "continuous" is 1 single long rope, with both bitter ends tied to the clew.

What I have is *not* a continuous sheet - in fact, I'm only aware of their use on smaller boats for smaller headsails (eg: jib) - in that case it wouldn't be a ring, it would just be one line that handles both sides.

And now I realize what I was saying (without meaning it) I'm not sure I'd use it for spinnaker sheets on any boat, because it seems like a hassle to me.. and on our boats because of the increased challenge of releasing the lazy side.

What I have is functionally equivalent to 2 physically separate sheets - except at the halfway point (~82 feet of the ~164 feet total) a bit of the core is pulled out of the jacket, and spliced into a soft shackle - by running it all the way back through ~82 feet of itself. 

Now I have the lightest possible attachment for the clew - rather than 2 separate sheets terminating in knots, soft shackles, or eyes with soft shackle, I've got just one integrated soft shackle. Great for light air when it is hard to keep it flying.

Paul English

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Sep 13, 2025, 1:36:19 PM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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I can see the appeal in low crew situations. If you've got enough crew, someone should always be flaking and managing that excess line.But it takes concentration and even in a fully crewed situation people get distracted. The other end of that giant pile of rope is REALLY loaded. 

Even a bit of a safety win here. People have died getting a bit of the necessarily long spin sheet wrapped around them and yanked overboard. Less sheet - less chance of that.

Paul English

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Sep 13, 2025, 2:43:37 PM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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On Sat, Sep 13, 2025, at 05:59, 'Martyn Adams' via Northwest Multihull Association wrote:
IIRC, the problem was lack of a complete line release.  
 F27, 3 experienced crew, returning home after a long weekend of racing, under full main and spinnaker.   Hit log, sheared dagger board and kicked or disabled rudder.   Boat was fine until they tried to ease the spin sheet which fouled.  Main sail dominated and began rounding the boat up.  Incomplete spinnaker release tripped the boat (pitch poled).
Hindsight would be to dump the main but most people would take the spinnaker out of the equation.   Would have been scary but likely survivable if the spinnaker had released completely.
Line maintenance with 2 spinnaker sheets would have kept them clear to run (only 1 sheet needs to be free).  

I'm not sure that is entirely true - even with a full length spinnaker sheet if the "lazy" side snags - say doesn't run out of its block, the length of it matters some - it runs around the boat to the clew and that can be enough load to pin a monohull in a broach "for longer." I'm not sure if it would be enough to flip a mono without the main also being involved. 


With the continuous sheet both sides need to be free (twice the friction and twice the likelihood that something will foul).
The good thing was, they only lost the boat. One of the crew nearly died. Wayne is a good friend and thanks to him, a valuable lesson was both taught and learned and now taught again.


Yikes! Advice heeded

Paul English

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Sep 13, 2025, 2:53:09 PM (4 days ago) Sep 13
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On Sat, Sep 13, 2025, at 08:00, Mark Dix wrote:
Dan Newland of Port Townsend was a speaker at the Wooden Boat Festival.  He's a senior guy with lifelong experience and wins in racing monohulls, much of it singlehanded.  He recommends using individual spin sheets.  He lets the tail of the sheet trail in the water behind the boat, so it can't tangle.




No knot in the end of the sheet.

Never in a spin sheet. I worry about the friction in my main sheet purchase (8:1), even without a stopper knot.


  Didn't discuss any significance of added drag in the water.

For single-handed handicap, I could see it that is definitely a pro-tip.

With enough crew to manage it in one-design monohull, even that tiny bit of extra drag can cost you the race.

But even that varies with conditions - I would guess that drag would never be The Thing that costs you the race after you have enough wind that you're working to maximize speed by depowering to reduce heel, rather than powering up. In those conditions, you're trimming from the high side, and all of your crew are on the high (lazy) side, so someone can easily retrieve that sheet from the water when it is time to gybe.

Other small mistakes that even the best crew make under big wind will tend to cost much more, and in one-design monohull, even one mistake typically costs you the race.



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