Re: Shiitake Log Research

[Greg Spevak]

While we're discussing trees, I have a two-part question for the group... 

(1) Does anybody have experience using any chestnut species / hybrids for shiitake cultivation? I ask because Stamets references it as being good for shiitake, as does this website (who might just be saying it because Stamets did, for all I know)... and while I'd love to have reason to believe this, it puzzles me. Chestnut trees are highly rot resistant (on par with redwood or cedar, acc. to Baddersett Research Corp); given this, how could it simultaneously be a good food source for saprophytic fungi - and shiitakes in particular? 

(2) If in fact they are actually well-suited to shiitake log inoculation, could one hypothetically set up a chestnut coppice rotation primarily for the purpose of having bolts? My sense, and right now this is more intuitive than based on direct experience, is that sourcing bolts for all the small/mid-scale commercial shiitake operations out there just from timber stand improvements (as opposed to people felling whatever oak and sugar maple they can find, for the sake of shiitake logs) will by and large, be tricky to do on a consistent basis. While I certainly think that should be part of the picture, I'm curious if in addition there are any tree species that function well within a coppice system and tend to produce good harvests of shiitakes. 

Thanks,

Greg Spevak

On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 2:45 AM, Bryan Sobel <brya...@gmail.com> wrote:

My hypothesis with Ash is that the physical structure of the wood is incompatible for shiitake because it can't hold water. I wasn't able to go into great detail researching this hypothesis, but in comparing the amount of water taken up by different tree species during soaking, Ash consistently was the tree species that absorbed the least amount of water. This may be why Ash doesn't need to be cured as long as other species before using it as firewood.

I really like Carpinus (ironwood/hop hornbeam) as my favorite, most under-appreciated tree species.

-Bryan

On 1/14/2015 1:17 AM, Julie Rockcastle wrote:

And the bugger always is, it takes a whole year of more to find out what’s going to work or not.

Julie

On Jan 13, 2015, at 8:12 PM, Laskovski Nicholas <danafor...@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

I agree with Julie.

Adding to that, birch is also not a sought after species with regards to log selection for shiitake, however, in dowel plug spawn, birch dowels are typically the selected species to transfer shiitake mycelium into a preferred log species - suggesting that shiitake mycelium can use birch in terms of survival for spawn transfer at elevated moisture levels. I assume the same could be done with ash. If one could feasibly keep moisture levels high in ash wood to encourage colonization - it may prove possible, albeit the effort might be too much if other tree species are readily available without the needed effort (or cost) to keep moisture levels high.

- Nick

On Jan 13, 2015, at 19:47, Julie Rockcastle <julie.b...@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

My understanding is that ash is a very dry wood internally and shiitake need a certain level of moisture to survive. We’ve never tried it.
Julie

On Jan 13, 2015, at 3:43 PM, Chris Cramer <cmcra...@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

Greetings!

Thanks for your research report - I have read it any share your appreciation for the resilience of our deer population. (just ask my blueberry plants) Your log moisture testing was most interesting and useful.

I am new here, and new to mushroom cultivation on logs, so I hope this is an appropriate idea for any new research you and your colleagues might undertake: is there any hope for *white ash* logs for shiitake cultivation? Many landowners here in Upstate NY - like me - have tons of it.  Tons and tons. And, oak or sugar maple logs can be hard to come by. Can Ash logs be treated in such a way (initial moisture enhancement?  selective log sizing?   inoculation techniques ?  incubation period/environmental parameters) so as make them useful?

I spawn supplier who lists Ash as one of the species 'acceptable' for shiitake growth tells me in an email exchange that ash "may produce some mushrooms. "   Not exactly a ringing endorsement! I've read the SARE Best Practices document that rights-off ash entirely as "Tier 4: Not Suitable."

I plan on using some Ash for my first try at shiitake culture later this winter, just as an experiment, along with Sugar Maple, Am. Hornbeam, and Oak if a local logger will sell me his 'tops' at a reasonable price. I may try a few Hickory, too.

Does anyone know what exactly prevents shiitake mycelium from growing on ash wood?

Thanks so much!

Chris Cramer

Steve & Julie Rockcastle
Green Heron Interiorscapes
716-720-3695
julie.b...@gmail.com

Steve & Julie Rockcastle

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Panama, NY 14767

716-753-0371

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[Mark Krawczyk]

Hi Greg

Here are a few thoughts

1 - Yes.  I lived/worked in the UK for 3/4 of a year back in 2002, working with Ben Law (coppice worker/author), and he had been using chestnut (Castanea sativa) as a substrate for shiitake production.  Partly this may have been because that was what he had in relative abundance as we also used European alder (Alnus glutinous I believe) when we had access to it.  

It does seem counterintuitive due to it's rot resistance, but oak species also exhibit varying degrees of durability and still seem to perform well, so perhaps it's more complex…?

2 - Yes - absolutely you could establish a coppice rotation for mushroom bolt production.  In fact, Dave Jacke and I have been working on a site design that includes that as one potential product.  And you most certainly wouldn't need to limit it to chestnut.  Just about any angiosperm will do (hardwood species).  Depending on a number of variables, climate, species, soils, microclimate, etc (as well as your desired bolt diameter), you would generally be maintaining a 10-20 year rotation.

And don't take my word for it.  The Japanese have been doing it for generations.

Skip to 18:15 on the video below and you'll see the system and process described beautifully

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pII_2VbgheI

And… if you have the time, I highly suggest watching the rest of the film - it's a remarkably inspiring look at the ecological integration of humans and landscape in rural Japan.

Best

Mark

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