Dragon Magazine
Doctor Igor
From Drew:
Rich, do you have that "First-~250-Issues-of-Dragon-on-a-CD"
collection? I imagine there would be a veritable abundance of fun
stuff for your campaign in the earlier issues. Or maybe that is not
your style.
Oh, who am I kidding, I just sent out this e-mail to ask if anyone had
any issues of Dragon they wanted to give me.
Doctor Igor
I DON'T have that, but you are right...
I could incorporate the "Random damage Table"
With results like:
You take 80 points of damage. You don't know why.
Bitten by an insect: Save vs. disease and then die.
Cut self shaving: Consult limb-loss chart
Still Grudd.Tirris v1.0
Yeah, I mean, I have an assortment of Dragon Magazines, probably
owning about 75% of them overall, but oddly my biggest gaps are in the
earliest issues that would probably be the most fun (I think I only
have #14 and #20 of issues before ~#80), and regardless it is not like
I am in town to give them to you (though many are somewhere at my
parents' house!).
But seriously, if anyone else has any old issues of Dragon, not only
might they be useful for the campaign, I will seriously take them off
your hands. Seriously.
Garthog
There's some high quality handouts and puzzles in there.
On Jan 25, 3:05 pm, "Still Grudd.Tirris v1.0" <qua...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Eternally Grudd.Tirris v1.0
> Whereas I have randomly started collecting the Paizo runs of Dungeon.
> There's some high quality handouts and puzzles in there.
It really is pretty great. Dragon Magazine, that is. All the time.
I genuinely think it is the best magazine in the world as far as
"having a reason to keep it around" goes, since tables to roll on for
generating game-relevant items/people/plots/concepts are never going
to be dated, the nostalgic advertisements and discussions are always
awesome and hilarious, and the cover art is generally good. I do not
know that I will ever actually justify to myself the expenditure
required to pick up any of the first 19 issues (I have #20, so clearly
everything after 20 is affordable or I would not have it [circular
logic: -2]), but I do fully intend to have every issue of it
eventually, and even-more-eventually scan the awesome old
advertisements. Possibly less-eventually to scan the random tables
(yes, I know, every old issue is on CD somewhere, but do -you- have a
copy of it? Also, are the ads included?)
Gary
You're looking at a little over a grand to truly complete your
collection. That's very doable.
Secondly, there's something I've been wondering about, and thanks to
your collection, you would be well-equipped to answer. At what point
did real artists start illustrating fantasy? More specifically, there
appear to be at least three distinct periods:
1) Whoever Gary Gygax knew that could kinda draw
2) Larry Elmore-ish oil paintings in the exact same style with the
exact same Gandalf knockoff in every single piece, with the other
illustrations well-drawn, but clearly inferior inked sketches.
3) Actual, stylish art pieces throughout
When did each of these periods roughly occur? As far as I can tell,
real art came in with 3e, but that may just be because I've never seen
any of the late 2e stuff.
Eternally Grudd.Tirris v1.0
certainly tell you that the period of shitty-art-from-Gary's-good-
friends period was definitely dying by the late 1970s, but I would
actually say that there is an important transition period in the early
1980s, perhaps best represented by the fact that there is a Larry
Elmore Dragon cover of this female warrior standing in front of a pile
of dirt that looks about as crappy as you can possibly imagine a Larry
Elmore painting looking. So, "shitty Larry Elmore art" comes before
"generic Larry Elmore art." I will have to thoroughly examine my
issues from the mid-late 90s to see if it really was ushered in by the
bold new concept of "actually do something unique-looking" for 3rd
Edition, or if perhaps upstarts like White Wolf and Pinnacle with
their "not D&D but still actually good and original art" helped things
along.
There is clearly a Ph.D. dissertation to be written here. An
anthropological study of nerd art.
Gary
guessing the dark, moody subject matter was easier to get legitimate
artists interested in. So it will be interesting to see when that
spilled over into fantasy.
And as for the Gary's Buddies period, as much shit as we give Errol
Otus, he did actually do some pieces that were really stylish (if
completely derivative of '50s illustrator Hannes Bok):
http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/setscans/basic9rule.html
vs
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PB-O1yT5EYg/SNE90F9iatI/AAAAAAAATEc/Rde1YK9QZZs/s400/01_bok_skullface.jpg
On Mar 6, 6:50 pm, "Eternally Grudd.Tirris v1.0" <qua...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Doctor Igor
was very good at making realistic action illustrations. He preferred
Superhero pictures. perhaps it is no coincidence that he wrote
Villains and Vigilantes.
you see his work in a lot of the early books and modules. he normally
just signed with a 'D'.
On Mar 7, 9:13 am, Gary <quux...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Well, clearly Vampire was the genesis of Real Art in RPGs, but I'm
> guessing the dark, moody subject matter was easier to get legitimate
> artists interested in. So it will be interesting to see when that
> spilled over into fantasy.
>
> And as for the Gary's Buddies period, as much shit as we give Errol
> Otus, he did actually do some pieces that were really stylish (if
> completely derivative of '50s illustrator Hannes Bok):
>
> http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/setscans/basic9rule.html
>
> vs
>
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PB-O1yT5EYg/SNE90F9iatI/AAAAAAAATEc/Rde1YK9...
>
> On Mar 6, 6:50 pm, "Eternally Grudd.Tirris v1.0" <qua...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > That is a great question, one that I have pondered myself. I can
> > certainly tell you that the period of shitty-art-from-Gary's-good-
> > friends period was definitely dying by the late 1970s, but I would
> > actually say that there is an important transition period in the early
> > 1980s, perhaps best represented by the fact that there is a Larry
> > Elmore Dragon cover of this female warrior standing in front of a pile
> > of dirt that looks about as crappy as you can possibly imagine a Larry
> > Elmore painting looking. So, "shitty Larry Elmore art" comes before
> > "generic Larry Elmore art." I will have to thoroughly examine my
> > issues from the mid-late 90s to see if it really was ushered in by the
> > bold new concept of "actually do something unique-looking" for 3rd
> > Edition, or if perhaps upstarts like White Wolf and Pinnacle with
> > their "not D&D but still actually good and original art" helped things
> > along.
>
> > There is clearly a Ph.D. dissertation to be written here. An
> > anthropological study of nerd art.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gary
> There is clearly a Ph.D. dissertation to be written here. An
> anthropological study of nerd art.
I already have my RPGh.D dissertation topic chosen. Well, actually
it'll be closer in size to a masters thesis. And in tone more akin to
a crazed manifesto! The outline right now weighs in at around 2,000
words. I haven't yet decided whether to go completely insane and
throw in footnotes and refrences.
Gary
Eternally Grudd.Tirris v1.0
to Standards & Practices if you do not have everything properly
cited. But I really do want to see it. And I really will turn you
in.
Jeff Dee did the Villains & Vigilantes stuff? Yeah, he pretty much
had the "dynamic superhero" style down cold. I will be interested to
see what he did when not drawing superheroes.
Gary
On Mar 9, 9:18 pm, "Eternally Grudd.Tirris v1.0" <qua...@gmail.com>
wrote:
STEVNE THE DWORF
sense, given what I am learning in the final pages of "30 Years of
Adventure: A Celebration of Dungeons & Dragons" that I finally picked
up super-cheap on Amazon* after six years of wanting it. Let me just
quote from it, as Peter Atkinson does a fine job explaining to us why
we should thank him for many things:
"With the publication of 3rd Edition D&D on the horizon we
challenged the art department with the fundamental question of how
they would respond to the challenges of the market and raise the bar
[with better illustrations] once again. Frankly, I personally had no
idea how we would do this, but thankfully the artists had a great
idea--a more realistic portrayal of D&D characters.
Up until now D&D art, while great art, didn't really reflect what
D&D character would really look like. D&D art was too 'clean.'
Heroes and heroines were shown with armor and weapons but not the
'tools of the trade' that most D&D characters would typically have.
The art department proposed a new look for D&D, one in which the
characters would be armed realistically. I was immediately sold on
the concept when I saw an early draft of the rogue Lidda**. Instead
[of] being dressed like the traditional thief with just a dagger and a
cloak, Lidda had soft leather armor and was armed with thieving tools,
a silk rope, a belt with potions, magical jewelry, and so on--just
like a femalr rogue halfling PC would probably be.
The new look drew enthusiastic support from staff and playtesters
alike, and the art department ... did a fantastic job defining a look
for D&D that was new, yet fit the game as well."
Ed Stark, whose meandering self-serving crap is generally the worst
part of the book and the only non-highlight in the entire thing, did
manage to throw in the useful comment on a sidebar here that they
basically were sick of D&D art being "cheesecake and beefcake" with no
substance and that realism was more important than chainmail bikinis.
Apparently the tendency had always been to draw what the "audience
wants," which is skimpier outfits. But the audience also loves
hanging potion bottles and thieves' tools!!!
So, it sounds like it was indeed ~1998 or so when an explicit order to
"stop making crap" came down from upon high, and it was followed with
great aplomb.
Also, can I just say that ending the book with the line "Hasbro didn't
interfere with us and we kept our heads down for them" is about the
most ominous and depressing way to end a book celebrating Dungeons &
Dragons?
*From MyExsStuff, who told the familiar story of dating a gamer who
had little sense with which to spend his even littler money on nothing
but gaming stuff (this is like the gaming version of a foreclosure
sale!).
**LOOK LIDDA GOT TO BE EMPOWERING IN TWO WAYS
Gary
On Apr 5, 10:43 am, STEVNE THE DWORF <qua...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, it sounds like it was indeed ~1998 or so when an explicit order to
> "stop making crap" came down from upon high, and it was followed with
> great aplomb.
>
Interesting. And as D&D goes, so goes the fantasy market.
> Also, can I just say that ending the book with the line "Hasbro didn't
> interfere with us and we kept our heads down for them" is about the
> most ominous and depressing way to end a book celebrating Dungeons &
> Dragons?
You may. And those fears have, by all accounts, been borne out by the
subsequent six years.
Gary
On Apr 5, 2:25 pm, Gary <quux...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 10:43 am, STEVNE THE DWORF <qua...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So, it sounds like it was indeed ~1998 or so when an explicit order to
> > "stop making crap" came down from upon high, and it was followed with
> > great aplomb.
>
A final note. This illio showed up in one of the last 2e modules in
1999:
http://arcona.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/cards.jpg
STEVNE THE DWORF
Gary
wifebeater? Or the guy who appears to be wearing a shirt made from
the same wood as the table? Or is it the game itself, which appears
to consist of staring intently and thoughtfully at the blank backs of
your cards, while you show the faces to the other players.
Doctor Igor
rest on the laps of the card players.
> > Wow. That is ... ... a bad, bad picture.- Hide quoted text -