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Ma Xiaojun

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Dec 26, 2011, 8:31:27 AM12/26/11
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自我介紹就簡單點吧,香港中文大學在讀本科生,愛用Linux和OSX,做過non-trivial的編程。

下面說下我最近產生的想法,希望能為減少IE-Only出一份力。不過我的側重點在那些不需要ActiveX的網頁。

大家想必都知道,一些網頁之所以IE-Only,乃是因為使用了IE特有的CSS、HTML、JS特性。可能IE-Only網頁開發者對此沒有清晰的認識,或者採用了只考慮IE的模板、框架,又或者他們知道有這樣的問題,但又不知道如何下手改進。

所以我覺得,如果有一個類Lint程序能幫助他們找出代碼中有問題的點,並且建議解決/替代方案(可以鏈接到類似http://w3help.org/zh-cn/那種知識庫),那會大大方便那些IE-Only開發者。現在已經有的一些Validator,各種HTML、CSS的Parser,我也在嘗試瞭解當中。

至於ActiveX的問題,我倒是想瞭解ActiveX的編程模型有何獨特之處,其他瀏覽器如何實現一些原控件開發者想要的Feature?

焦锋

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Dec 26, 2011, 9:45:58 PM12/26/11
to non-ie-onl...@googlegroups.com, Ma Xiaojun
欢迎Ma Xiaojun
我对你说的那个“类似Lint的程序来检查网页的IE-Only特性”的想法很感兴趣,不知有没有具体的项目。

BTW:W3help.org的搜索似乎最近不work了,谁能帮联系一下站长。


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焦锋(frank)

Johnny Ding

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Dec 27, 2011, 12:00:25 AM12/27/11
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We used to have a project to detect sort of IE specific issues with using Chrome extension, see  http://code.google.com/p/compatibility-detector/ 
I think you can start from that project or leverage the materials the project provided.




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Ma Xiaojun

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Dec 27, 2011, 4:21:23 AM12/27/11
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我覺得這種交互式檢測問題的,是不是用Firebug或者Chrome/Safari的Develop工具就可以了?只不過需要友好地educate一下知識比較陳舊的開發者?(我還在嘗試中)配合常見問題檢查表。

但是我設想的另一種程序,輸入css/html/js代碼,輸出統計信息,然後可以管道輸入Diagnose程序,給出原因和建議。

BTW,樓上說的插件,在一個非公開的IE-Only系統測試沒有給出什麼的問題,了解的朋友能不能給一個可以work的例子(鏈接)?

焦锋

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Dec 27, 2011, 5:28:30 AM12/27/11
to non-ie-onl...@googlegroups.com, Ma Xiaojun
Johnny说的那个项目的框架很适合做IE-Only检查的,我也是推荐你参加这个项目

于2011年12月27日 17:21:23,Ma Xiaojun写到:


> 我覺得這種交互式檢測問題的,是不是用Firebug或者Chrome/Safari的Develop工具就可以了?只不過需要友好地educate一下知識比較陳舊的開發者?(我還在嘗試中)配合常見問題檢查表。
>
> 但是我設想的另一種程序,輸入css/html/js代碼,輸出統計信息,然後可以管道輸入Diagnose程序,給出原因和建議。
>
> BTW,樓上說的插件,在一個非公開的IE-Only系統測試沒有給出什麼的問題,了解的朋友能不能給一個可以work的例子(鏈接)?
>

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焦锋(frank)

Johnny Ding

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Dec 27, 2011, 5:32:00 AM12/27/11
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在 2011年12月27日 下午5:21,Ma Xiaojun <damag...@gmail.com>写道:
我覺得這種交互式檢測問題的,是不是用Firebug或者Chrome/Safari的Develop工具就可以了?只不過需要友好地educate一下知識比較陳舊的開發者?(我還在嘗試中)配合常見問題檢查表。

但是我設想的另一種程序,輸入css/html/js代碼,輸出統計信息,然後可以管道輸入Diagnose程序,給出原因和建議。
That is exactly what the compatibility-detector does. Not sure whether you read it. 

BTW,樓上說的插件,在一個非公開的IE-Only系統測試沒有給出什麼的問題,了解的朋友能不能給一個可以work的例子(鏈接)?

Qian Hong

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Dec 27, 2011, 5:38:05 AM12/27/11
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2011/12/27 Ma Xiaojun <damag...@gmail.com>:

> BTW,樓上說的插件,在一個非公開的IE-Only系統測試沒有給出什麼的問題,了解的朋友能不能給一個可以work的例子(鏈接)?

If you are considering to analyze http://uems.sysu.edu.cn/jwxt/ or
something like that, I think you might want to analyze it after you
login to the website.
This tool might have no magic power to analyze the whole site in one time :)

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Qian Hong

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Ma Xiaojun

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Dec 27, 2011, 9:07:05 AM12/27/11
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Sorry, all.

I installed Google Chrome and the plugin. But I forgot to check the
Wiki and so on.

Also, what I checked is http://ecampus.sysu.edu.cn, it is already obsolete...

Since there is some project members here. I want to state my idea again.

I'd like to have independent, standalone, CLI programs to serve
compatibility purpose. They expect source files (html/css/js) as input
just like lint for C. Maybe a GUI front-end is also desirable. I know
it's old-fashioned. But in my very humble opinion, the CLI method can
make sure the coverage of code checking.

Ma Xiaojun

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Dec 27, 2011, 9:19:08 AM12/27/11
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For example, your FAQ say the program cannot check unclosed tags
because you rely on the browsers' DOM tree.

In general, I don't think using browsers' DOM tree is a good idea. As
far as I know, some people write illegal HTML code on purpose to trick
the browsers. The analysis may be meaningless in this case.

As a plugin, it should have the ability of real-time processing. But
we can tolerate a CLI or GUI program to do some long time processing.
Therefore, if the CLI method is used. We may use a combination of
naive methods (like `grep document.all FILE`) to detect known issues.

Another advantage of CLI programs is that we can separate the code
concerned. This is a great flexibility.

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