RFJ Case 6005.1

[Nomicron]

[Nomicron Official]
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A new Request for Judgment has been submitted by Jef. Pitboss has been selected as the judge on Case 6005.1

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RFJ
[Title] Below Freezing
[Creator] Jef
[Create Date] 2007-12-09 18:25
[Statement] It is impossible to determine the amount to change player point totals due to not submitting proposals or referenda when the Temperature is less than 32.
[Arguments] {Rule 306} specifies that the Temperature changes at the Beginning of each Turn depending on the player to proposal/referenda ratio. It also states that "players who submitted neither proposals nor referenda that Turn gain points equal to difference (Temperature - 32)". However, there is no mechanism for determining which occurs first--the Temperature change or the point changes. Therefore, it is impossible to determine the amount of the point change for players who meet the specified criteria because it is impossible to determine which Temperature is to be used in the formula--the Temperature before or after the Temperature change.

This state has actually existed since Looney first amended {Rule 306.2} to include a point change based on Temperature for players who did not submit proposals in a turn (in the first version, it was if the Temperature was less than 0). Thus, I believe that Looney and myself would both win the round under {Rule 211} if this is ruled true.
[Decision] Undecided
[Judge] Pitboss
[Reasoning]

["Looney" Lurie]

This is just plain wrong. From {Rule 306}

"At the Beginning of each Turn, the following changes are applied to
the value of Temperature: ...

"Then check the value of Temperature for the following conditions: ..."

Note the use of the word "then." This denotes a sequence of events. The
changes occur first. Then the tests for various effects. There is no
paradox.

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[Physics]

I thought the same at first, but it says in the check "If Temperature
is less than 32 at the Beginning of a Turn". By the wording, the
temperature is changed first, but you could say then that it checks
what the temperature was rather than what it is when it says "at the
Beginning of a Turn". But that point is hard to defend because the
statement is present tense, so in my opinion there's no paradox and
what Loonie said is true.

On Dec 10, 2:42 am, "\"Looney\" Lurie" <comp_wizard11...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

[Jef]

I would agree that the rule dictates the order in which to process the
Temperature and then check for conditions. However, the nature of the
condition in question specifically refers to the value "at the
Beginning of a Turn":

"If Temperature is less than 32 at the Beginning of a Turn, ..."

There are two problems with this... specifically, it does not say to
use the Temperature at the time the condition is being evaluated, it
says to use the value "at the Beginning of a Turn". The other problem
is that it is not even clear which Turn should be used. I could say,
for example, that it was less than 32 at the beginning of Turn 9-12...
what would stop me from using that turn, since the rule does not
specify that it is the current turn's beginning that is to be used?
Since the Temperature was different for several turns in which it was
less than 32, I argue that it is impossible to determine which
Temperature is to be used in the calculation of points for not
submitting a proposal or referendum.

-Jef

[pavan tallapragada]

I agree that the rule is not so well written. I'll try to address the two problems that you have raised.

I'm sure there isn't any ambiguity in the use of the phrase "at the Beginning of a turn" if you consider the context set by the first three conditions and assume that its usage is consistent in all the four conditions. The effects of the first three conditions are as follows:

all Players gain 10 Points at the End of the Turn.
all Players may submit one additional Proposal that Turn.
the Round will end at the end of the following Turn .........

From these effects (may be not the first but definitely the second and the third), it is clear as to which turn is being referred to by "at the Beginning of a turn" as these effects cannot take effect retroactively.

As for the other problem, I agree that there is probably some ambiguity. But I would like to make some points.

The use of the word "Then" definitely indicates that the author wanted the updated temperatures to be checked for the conditions. But as Looney said in a recent comment, it is not the intent of the author but the letter/spirit of the rule that matters. Remember that an RFJ was ruled true a few turns back based on this spirit argument.

"Beginning of a Turn" is a very dangerous term and I am not very comfortable with it myself. But for the want of better and more clear expression to I continue using it, probably just as everybody else, to mean slightly different things at different times.

Even if the conditions checking part of the rule were not there, if you ask me what the temperature is at the beginning of a turn, I would say it is the un-updated one for {Rule 104} explicitly states "No other game action may take effect earlier than the moment when it is declared". Obviously the event "Beginning of Turn 9-..." has to pass before checking how many proposals/referenda are up for vote. Also, the updated temperature is  the value at the time of declaration. Therefore, I feel following the strict letter of the rules, I believe it is quite clear which temperature has to be used, though I am sure every one of us never considered it that way so far.