Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Causes of Persisting Belief in Religions and Supernatural Beings / Places

8 views
Skip to first unread message

Dan Fake

unread,
Jun 21, 2002, 10:54:20 PM6/21/02
to
Folks believe (and disbelieve) in religions and supernatural beings /
places in varying degrees from day-to-day and place-to-place, with
doubt being considered, by many, to be an ever-present ...

o "temptation of Satan or Jinns" -or-

o risk of loss of an immortal wonderland -or-

o risk of punishment and adverse consequences in this life
and in a future life -or-

o risk of coming face to face with the disquieting and unsettling
unknowns inherent in reality

- - -

Typically, belief is strongest (and/or most pretentious) while
folks are ...

o in meetings with like-minded believers -or-

o pretending to talk to magic being(s) -or-

o reading scripts that pronounce that magic being(s) and
magic places exist -or-

o trying to get others to believe in magic being(s) and places

- - -

Malleable Memories (and influences
impacting disbelief / belief)
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard010627.html

Excerpt:

"Our memories can be very selective, and it turns out, very
creative.

"Memory is not like a tape recorder," says Jacquie Pickrell,
a doctoral candidate in psychology at the University of
Washington, who has come up with evidence that it may
be possible for outsiders to "implant" memories of phony
events in our brains.

Her research suggests it doesn't take much, maybe just the
right advertisement. ..." (end excerpt)

Comments: The experiment resulted in 30 to 40 percent
of subjects 'knowing' or 'remembering' an event which
had been implanted in their minds, but did not, in fact,
occur.

Do religions use the technique of implanting events over
and over in the minds of their parishioners?

Yes.

Does this explain, perhaps, why so many believers claim
to 'know' god (allah) or to have 'heard from' god (allah) or
that god (allah) is 'real' for them or that 'Jesus lives' or that
Mohammed is the last prophet or ... [list of religious claims
treated as real experiences goes here]?

Quite likely, it's a significant factor, along with many other
social / psychological factors, as the messages to believe
are canted over and over in churches, mosques, synagogues,
temples, and by the religious. Many seem to be unable or
unwilling or reticent to assess these influences objectively
and skeptically, not only during their childhood upbringing
stage, but also upon reaching adulthood.

However, of note, most do pass through a puberty rebellion
stage in which the superstitions of religion fade, though most
return to their childhood roots as they take on responsibilities
of jobs and families as they age, as if they're entering a phase
of life in which the use of their childhood memories becomes
a template for them to pattern themselves after when it comes
to their own behavior toward religion.

- - -

Despite the illogic and ancient superstitious methods used
to promote religious faith, worship, tithing, prayer, rituals,
and belief in supernatural beings / places, what are some
other explanations for why folks continue to believe? Is it
based on "feelings", for the most part?

The "power of feelings" to impact ideas and human
activities is enormous, often referred to as the "power
of god (allah)" or the "power of love" or the "power of
prayer" or "the power of an idea", but seldom referred
to as ...

... the "power of delusion" or the "power of imaginary
thinking when the imagination is treated as reality" or
"the naturalistic consequence of stimuli and hormonal
reactions and brain activity in response thereto, exhibited
in thoughts, actions, deeds, and behavior of a most often
peculiar and at times illogical and irrational manner".

Another way to look at it is memes (ideas) competing for
prominence in human brains.

Excerpt from chapter 13 of "The Meme Machine", by
Susan Blackmore:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0198503652

"... A religion which persuades its followers to be more
altruistic will spread because of the altruism trick. I was
once cycling in a park in Bristol when my bicycle chain
fell off. Before I could jump off to put it back two young
men raced up to me, politely offered help, expertly put
the chain back on, and stood smiling kindly at me. 'Thank
you very much', I said, feeling a little bewildered. For I had
never seen them before and I was not a ravishing sight in
my Felix-the-cat bike helmet.

God was soon on their lips, quickly followed by Joseph
Smith and Salt Lake City. The Mormon faith is ably and
deliberately spread by the altruism trick. It doesn't work
on everyone, but it works well enough to keep the memes
alive.

The altruism trick works like this. Take a political party,
a religious sect, a cult, a local benevolent society, or any
complex belief system. Incorporate within it the idea that
its followers should do good work. These good works
will then make the followers more likeable and so people
will copy them--copying in the process all the other memes
in the belief system. ..."

- - -

One who values the veritable should recognize that in the
nature of humans is the "lieness of being", and the difficulty
inherent in distinguishing the "good lie" from the "bad lie",
truth from empty claims, the value of verity as compared to
the value of the way a claim makes one "feel".

It has been demonstrated, scientifically, that the more popular
students in high school tend to be "better liars" (as unappealing
as that sounds when expressed in that manner) than their less
popular but more honest counterparts.

As part of human nature that is exhibited in all of us ...

Lying, misleading, deceiving, and being pretentious are amongst
the many strategies used to compete on earth, used in varying
degrees and ways.

As most would admit, those strategies are part of being a lawyer /
politician / sales person / priest / shaman / magician / minister /
rabbi / prophet / preacher / authority figure / counselor (not dis-
paraging those occupations, necessarily, just stating the way
things are from the standpoint that blatant honesty is rare and
the mentioned strategies are rife, for many reasons).

Those strategies are not only present in and of themselves, but all
of us are subject to human nature, and as such, from time to time,
through conscious intent or subconscious human nature, lie / mislead /
deceive / pretend to our very own selves that we have somehow risen
above those characteristics even as we participate in them:
http://danfake.home.att.net/philosophy_general/lieness_of_being.htm

Those strategies are a naturalistic consequence of being part of the
complicated state of being which all of us, those of "religious faith /
distance from religious faith / no religious faith", participate in with
varied ways and means, and to varying degrees, as a result of being
amongst the species known as homo sapiens. Being distanced from
religious faith or having no religious faith is a step away from those
strategies, but nevertheless and even so, religious faith is but one
aspect of existence and those strategies are in play in all areas.

- - -

Emotions and intuition resulting from genes (as well as all the
stimuli each of us has been exposed to) impart that which is
human behavior, and logic is a tool used in varying measures
and ways by each of us. There is also the imperceptible com-
petition of neuronal activity resulting in a random aspect attri-
butable to all animals (not something I'll dwell on, but some-
thing recently revealed as a methodology explaining the basics
of behavioral 'choices').

Logic alone does not impart enough impact on emotions,
desires, and fears to free many folks from belief in the super-
natural, for an array of reasons, some of which are dealt with
in the following segments ...

- - -

"Why Religions Persist in a Naturalistic World"

Think of a numeric reference range, with "+2" = strong
approval, "+1" = mild approval, "0" = ambivalence or
distance, "-1" = mild disapproval, and "-2" = strong
disapproval.

The abstract triad of beings called god / christ / holy spirit
(along with their locational abstract representation of good,
heaven) are imaginary entities associated with "+2" (strong
approval) in most western cultures. Substitute allah for the
triad and think of the christ as being a Jesus prophet rather
than an all-powerful deity in islamic cultures.

The abstract being called satan or the concept thought of
as no god (along with his locational abstract representation
of evil, hell) are imaginary entities or concepts often associ-
ated with "-2" (strong disapproval) in most western cultures.
Substitute Jinns for Satan and no allah for no god in islamic
cultures.

Those concepts and all points in between are understood
naturalistically as part of the "Circle of All That Is" ...
http://danfake.home.att.net/philosophy_freelover/circle_of_all_that_is.htm

Why do imaginary beings like god (allah) / satan (jinns) and
imaginary places like heaven / hell persist as abstracts repre-
senting good / evil and "strong approval" / "strong disapproval"
in the modern day of science, logic, and reason?

The simple cut to the core of the matter is we don't know
who we are, where we came from, or where we're going.

That's almost as complete an explanation of the human
quandary now as it was in ancient days as well as in the
days of the distant past, despite our dramatically expanded
understanding of our naturalistic world in the present day.

We are heavily suspicious that this is our one and only
chance at life, and most of us don't like that, many finding
that to be deeply disturbing (for naturalistic reasons and
reasons due to indoctrination into "fear of death" via reli-
gious dogma when we were children).

Therefore, it's tempting for most to depend on parental /
societal / cultural / religious / peer-pressure support for their
methods of dealing with all that the unknown entails in the
form of fictitious beings called god and satan, to one degree
or another, and fictitious places called heaven and hell, to
one degree or another, since most of us have been exposed
to those generally accepted default explanations / promises /
threats (and _____ [herein insert what is usually invoked via
the faith / religion of one's family]) since childhood.

- - -

"Human Instincts"

---
'Are we hardwired for God?'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4351726,00.html
Thursday February 7, 2002

Religion Explained: The Human Instincts that Fashion Gods,
Spirits and Ancestors, by Pascal Boyer
---

- - -

"Grog, Grog Jr., Og, Og Jr., Oggaletto, and Us"

A scenario which is likely to have occurred, multiple times, with
this being but one example of the way humans evolved into our
current sociological / cultural / religious diversity ...

So, 30,000 or so years ago, Grog and Grog Jr. are walking around
and Grog Jr. is full of questions ... "Why is the sky blue, daddy?" ...
"Why does it rain, daddy?" ... "Why are those shiny things in the
sky sparkling at night, daddy?" ... and so on and so forth.

Grog, having been taught by his own dad to be honest and non-
pretentious in speaking of the unknown, replies with the standard
"I don't know, little Grog, but I sure would like to find out" ...

Meanwhile, nearby, Og and Og Jr. are walking around, and to
every one of Og Jr.'s questions, similar to Grog Jr.'s and reflecting
the curious nature which most children possess, Og replies "the
magnificent and all knowing beings in the sky did it, for us, little
Og".

Og Jr. is awed by his dad's amazing wisdom and knowledge,
and having overheard the conversation between Grog Jr. and
Grog Jr.'s dad, comments ... "Hey, Groggie boy, my dad says
the magnificent and all knowing beings in the sky did it for us
and your dad says he doesn't know diddly squat. Loser!"

Well, as time passed and the boys grew into manhood, Grog Jr.
tried to impress the girlies with his "don't know" approach, but
Og Jr. was scoring big time with his supposed knowledge of
"the magnificent and all knowing beings in the sky" and, like a
fish story, over time, Og Jr.'s son, Oggaletto, was passing down
stories of all sorts of acts and deeds by "the magnificent and all
knowing beings in the sky" and some 25,000 or so years later,
the evolved versions of those stories began to be recorded as
written symbols, and, well ... we all know how all that has turned
out, thus far ...

- - -

"Empty and Malleable Vessel"
http://danfake.home.att.net/disbelief/empty_malleable_vessel.htm

- - -

"Brainwashing"
http://danfake.home.att.net/disbelief/nature_of_brainwashing.htm
http://freelover.home.att.net/disbelief/brainwashing_evidence_bible.htm

- - -

"Nipple Theory (hey, who says pondering whys and
wherefores can't be fun?)"

One suspects that the god (allah) concept is an outgrowth
of our evolution and would be wise to consider the way
in which the human brain was slowly turned on (through
hundreds of millions of years of evolution) when viewed
from the current position of the species,

-and-

the way in which the human brain of every surviving fertil-
ized human egg is slowly turned on during gestation, barely
starting to work many weeks after conception, trying to
make sense of its dark / mysterious / wet world in which
sounds and nourishment are its initial introduction to what
will become, if it's lucky, an exit through an incredibly tiny
space into a mysterious world in which large beings are
scurrying about and babbling strange sounds that are much
clearer now than they were back in the good ol' wet womb
days ... and ... ahhh, a nipple, must have nipple ... hmmmm,
go(o)d ...

- - -

6 Reasons (used in varying degrees and combinations)
to Explain Why Many Continue to Believe:

1) Determination that it is definitely true (oxymoronic
'cause faith and definitely true can't both be true, so
this option is out if faith is the motivation),

2) Determination that it is likely true (if belief crosses
from faith to likely true, is belief no longer faith but,
instead, likely true and able to be examined in the real
world we all know and share ... if it is, then the faith
no longer carries the weight, and dependence on
existential reality for determination of truth and false-
hood becomes the methodology, and as such, an
objective weighing of the evidence, including skep-
ticism / doubt, must be utilized in one degree or
another to determine whether or not it's true),

3) Determination that it's so attractive to believe that
it's true, what with promises of eternal life from
supernatural beings who "care about us if we believe /
follow" (along with threats of dire consequences if
we disbelieve - with only *the individual*, and not the
stimuli, to blame for said consequences), that it doesn't
matter if it's true or not, so just believing *as if* it was
true (pretension and hope for a particular outcome
despite evidence contrary to that desired) is the deal,

4) Fear - scared into believing by threats, so scared that
it doesn't matter if it's true or not,

5) Influenced by sexual / social / cultural / financial factors
entailing seduction to conform / go along / withhold intel-
ligent doubt / subdue "what if" scenarios in an unbalanced
endeavor to "at-a-boy away" any and all doubts via cover-
ups and intellectual dishonesty ... often, this spins out of
childhood influences projecting god / jesus or allah / moham-
med as one with goodness and parental acceptance (even so,
it can take place in those infrequently exposed to religion at
a young age) ... many children are brainwashed (or, if you
prefer, heavily influenced) into a religion at a young age and
are never able to objectively assess it and free themselves
from it, in large part due to the factors listed

-or-

6) Just want it to be true and will believe it's true even if it's
not true

- - -

3 Ways One Might Try to Believe:

1) FIRM FOLLOWING of BIBLE
or QURAN DERIVED FAITH

Why?

1a) Social/cultural support systems tie the belief one was
taught at a young and impressionable age into rewards in
this life (and the next) if one follows those teachings and
threaten one with punishment / rejection if one rejects what
one was taught (said rejection occurring for sure in this life
by family and social contacts and, more often than not,
used as a threat pertaining to a loss of the supposed 'after-
life' or the earning of eternal torment),

1b) Having been taught to diminish / distance oneself from
teachings not consistent with what one was taught at a
young and impressionable age, one seeks the reinforcement
and support (social / cultural / financial / spiritual / peer
group) from those teachings and teachers and persons
associated with those teachings and teachers.

2) MODIFIED FOLLOWING of BIBLE
or QURAN DERIVED FAITH

Why?

Simply put, as one grows up and begins to reach out beyond
the parental / social / cultural formation of one's youth, one
may call into question the foundations under which one was
raised, rebel against that, and seek a perceived better match
to one's life experiences yet still trying to cling onto the
advantages seen in the teachings that were imparted to one
when one was young and impressionable.

Also of note, partnership of persons of different faiths often
results in one of the partners changing to the faith of the other
partner in order to insure a unity of common faith within the
family unit. This is more easily accomplished when the faiths
have more in common than they do differences and, of
course, an inability to resolve differences of faith / non-faith
in a mutually responsible and respectful manner can result in
a dissolution of a partnership / family unit.

3) REJECTED ORIGINAL YET STILL FOLLOWING
SOME OTHER BIBLE or QURAN DERIVED FAITH

Why?

If one has found one's teachings at a young and vulnerable age
to be unacceptable, one might reach out for what one considers
to be far apart from their upbringing, yet still sympathetic to an
imaginary world which one can relate to based on one's upbringing.

This 'new' perspective on one's imaginary world will consist of
a view in which one's deity is either stronger or weaker, kinder
or meaner, more bible-centered (or quran-centered) or more
'beyond or better than the bible (or quran)', more traditional or
more liberal, yet still leveraged off of the perspective of one's
youth.

Perhaps one finds that a radical change in following places one
more in line with one's primary goals of success in this life and,
ultimately, living forever, and that appeal is so strong that reason
and logic are used as objects of inconvenience if / when they
conflict with one's faith while being considered quite convenient
when they can be used to excuse or support one's faith.

- - -

"Human Beings - Who/What/Why Are We?"

A human being is someone who sleeps one-third of its life, and
consumes about 2,000 to 3,000 calories per day, on average.

A human being is someone who has no earthly clue of where
it came from, what life is all about, or where it's going.

A human being is someone who pretends, who lies, who makes
believe that it knows what life is all about, while having nary
a clue other than knowing if it doesn't do what is required to
feed its face, it dies.

A human being often seeks and achieves a degree of pleasure
from its short existence in this world.

A human being often deludes itself and pretends it knows what
life is all about, while deep inside feeling free to be honest with
itself, knowing that it has not a clue but, for appearances, just
appearing to know is the deal, to fit in, to conform, to go along,
to do what has to be done to make it in a world that, for the
most part, couldn't care less about dealing intelligently, logically,
reasonably, and skeptically with all the claims pertaining to ulti-
mate unknowns.

A human being typically cares about its young and cares about
those critical to the survival of the human being assessing said
camaraderie, yet truly, on a deep and cut-to-the-bone level, a
human being knows that some of those it cares about and shares
with, and those who are kin to it, would sooner manipulate /
deceive / take advantage of it if doing so yielded an advantage,
a mating opportunity, a financial / social / cultural gain to said
individuals.

A human being exists alone, apart from its peers, isolated and
desolate in its attempt to emerge from its solitude and bond with
its fellow beings.

To be a human being is but to suffer the slings and arrows of
outrageous fortune, knowing that to take arms against a sea
of troubles is, perchance, an attempt to end them for a moment,
a temporary respite, if achieved, but as fate would have it, all
such attempts are but a brief respite from its ultimate destiny ...

But, on a brighter note, a human being is one who has the potential
to try to seek answers for what life is all about, to defeat the slings
and arrows of outrageous fortune, to attain an understanding of
and a triumph over the fate of its ancestors, to reach out for plea-
sant perpetuity within the realm of the real rather than bowing to
the immortality fantasies residing in the ancient myths ...

\ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ /
Dan Fake, Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
(Freethinking Realist Exploring Expressive
Liberty, Openness, Verity, Enlightenment,
& Rationality)
http://danfake.home.att.net
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \

John Jones

unread,
Jun 23, 2002, 5:29:45 AM6/23/02
to
Don't. Just don't. Stop pissing about.


0 new messages