oh, now I've really borked it...

[Howard White]

Dealing with servers (virtual guests) upon which KDE was installed as
the GUI. I'm going through an exercise to try to remove KDE and replace
it, reluctantly, with GNOME.

yum erase kde-runtime seems to have done that deed nicely.

First attempt yum groupinstall "GNOME Desktop" got all manner of
conflicts between libvirt-libs and the existing (old) libvirt-client

yum upgrade libvirt_client

yum groupinstall "GNOME Desktop" got passed that

Did I mention that I'm working remotely, trying to balance between
PuTTY, RDP and vshpere (oh yeah, it's ESXi 5.1)?

I did get to the boot screen on the guest console to accept the license
and finish the configuration. I am able to connect to "some part of"
gnome via RDP but I don't have an "Activity" or "Applications" widget in
the top left corner. Gnome Classic?? No obvious way to log out of that
session.

Now on reboot, the console goes through the boot sequence, displays the
CentOS 7 GUI login splash but not the actual login process. Am not able
to get to (what I know as session manager) select which Gnome or ????

I am able to ssh into the system no problems. I am also able to connect
via RDP but it's not useable.

WhaddidIdo this time?

Howard

[Jack Coats]

Condolences from the retired cheap seats... If you must rebuild it
sounds like multiple virtual machines or at least some kind of
containers. But I have been out of the fray so long, don't take
anything I say at face value, ...

Take care ol friends.

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If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are
the product. - Chamath Palihapitiya

"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I
learn." - Ben Franklin

[Brian H. Ward]

Did removing KDE get rid of sddm but now gdm/gdm3 is not there to take its place? Been a while since I've messed w/ RHEL/CentOS, but some distros keep the xdm (login manager) out of the desktop metapackages so they don't collide (if you want a machine capable or running either KDE or GNOME).

Just my $0.02 (aka "guess")

--- bhw

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"Humanity will not be free until the last stone of the last church falls on the head of last priest" -- The Emperor of Mankind, Warhammer 40,000

[Vincent Brown]

Howard, did you save a snapshot in VMware before you borked it?

[Howard White]

Many thanks for the rebound, Brian.

Really didn't notice which of the ?dm programs was there before I
started but I definitely see gdm there after the Gnome install.

And before anybody gets too concerned, I'm working on a copy of a
copy... I may delete this copy and gen it again to retrace my steps
more carefully. That yum erase kde-runtime went as apparently cleanly
as it did is a good start. I need to spend more time on the system post
erase, pre groupinstall to take better stock of what is there.

Howard

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[Tilghman Lesher]

Another option would be to attempt to get GNOME working *before* deleting KDE.

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Tilghman

[Howard White]

Follow up from the western front...

Tilghman's suggestion of getting <whatever> to work before removing KDE
was good advice. Gnome came out to the same broken end either way; an
admittedly small sample size. I have been able to replace KDE with XFCE
- mostly. The xrdp config is still messed up, which isn't saying much...

Just wondering, has anybody seen or done anything with guacamole from
apache <https://guacamole.apache.org/>?? Seems an alternative to xrdp.

Now, if we could just make GUI a true client/server system where the
presentation work is done on the desktop side.

Howard

[Tilghman Lesher]

Another possible approach. I know you're trying to convert, but the
key is to get the full list of packages.

So you might start with a different guest, with GNOME-from-the-start,
and then grab a list of the packages, then grab the same list of
packages from your starting machine, and compare.

On the machine you're trying to convert, add all the packages that
aren't already there. You may still have some differences with
configuration, but that might get you to the point of a functional
GNOME.

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--
Tilghman

[Howard White]

More great suggestions, Tilghman.

I truly think my biggest roadblock is that the system(s) in question are
CentOS 7.[2,3] and don't really want to be updated to 7.8. My trying to
muck around with things yum only makes this worse.

My progress with XFCE is useful. That I may have to re-install a couple
of things and readjust xrdp is par for the course.

Last I heard, XFCE was lighter weight than Gnome anyway.

Howard

[Tilghman Lesher]

It's only as lightweight as the number of widgets you opt to install with it.

The question that I still have is what is the desired outcome? What
are your requirements, and what is the goal and the purpose thereof?

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Tilghman

[Howard White]

Also great questions.

The motivation for replacing KDE is that we find that, especially with
CentOS 7, KDE sessions do not cleanly terminate when a user disconnects
from xrdp. I have created a Nagios check to look for such sessions that
we may clear them.

In the widget category, we recently discovered Akonadi was running with
ever growing disk consumption for systems and users that aren't using
these logins as true "desktop" clients. I've gone through the set of
servers and attempted to turn off Akonadi.

The desired outcome(s):
- that new server deployments are distributed with a GUI that doesn't
hang on xrdp disconnect. I grant you that I don't have any data as to
whether or not XFCE plays better than KDE in this regard.
- that we be able to cycle through our existing deployments and
eliminate KDE as an unnecessary load factor.

The good news is that of the client deployments, only a few are on the
ragged edge of system resources.

Howard

[Justin W Elam]

Good Evening Howard and the group:

I see that you, Howard, are wanting to move to using the new Guacamole Apache HTML5 API instead of using remote Desktop Protocol.

Based on that application, Guacamole per the FAQs and User Documentation is to be similar to Citrix Webapps.

GuaqCD guaqcd is the daemon

Running as guacamole-server

Guacamole is the Guacamole-client running in a Tomcat Servlet Container.

Note Guacamole can also be run as a Docker Container as well if you need to keep things separate for policy reasons.

=]

This can also be a way to run x-windows via SSH/VNC/RDP/ more securely as you can set a number of ways to authenticate via SSH key, Radius, LDAP, DUO, Database, and possibly Active directory.

UUIDs are also set for each client session.

Recording of the sessions is also available.

Hopefully this will help you out with your project.

I would say if you have memory issues XFCE is better GUi than Gnome or KDe.

It also depends if n what the use case is for!

If you need everything that Guacamole has and it is mission essential.

You may just want to pay for Citrix / VmWare Or Oracle Virtualbox professional applications.

Then you would not have to manage the server. Instead you would pay $$$$ to have someone else manage the server for you and provide the solution based on the contracted response time. 1 minute, 15 minutes, 1 hour, 1 day, etc.

Otherwise I would recommend taking a test docker container and run a few test instances on Azure, AWs, Etc.

Before you go through the process of running it live in your own hardware.

It possibly may be the best option for you based on your use case scenario.

Good luck and keep us updated.

If you need more assistance reply via electronic mail.

Warm regards,

Justin

====

https://guacamole.apache.org/doc/gug/guacamole-architecture.html

https://guacamole.apache.org/doc/gug/installing-guacamole.html

https://guacamole.apache.org/doc/gug/developers-guide.html

$$$

============

Justin W Elam

============

$$$

[Jack Coats]

"Now, if we could just make GUI a true client/server system where the
presentation work is done on the desktop side."

like the Plan9 OS from Bell Labs back when... (they had 'storage
servers', 'compute servers', and 'display servers'. they could run
all on separate machines or all on the same one or multiple of any of
them in any combination. Display servers were basically the desktop
component. At least that is my memory...

[Howard White]

Justin,

Many thanks for the rebound. "Tomcat?" Say no more. You saved me the
grief of disappointment. The _LAST_ thing I need is a system pig like
Tomcat and Java just for the purposes of occasionally wanting to log in
to check a setting or another. Xrdp is sooooo last century but it is
not a system crusher.

Our use case is poor to begin with. Mind you that none of the servers
I've installed for "my" purposes even have a GUI. We have non-systems
types, muggles, that have grown so very soft with the advent of
graphical tools. Okay, I get it; I don't use pine or mutt to send email
(but Thunderbird is bloody close...).

Is gparted easier to use than parted? Probably. Are the system
settings utilities for things like printers easier to use than editing
cups configuration files? No doubt. Can we do these things without the
bloat of KDE? No question.

It's just that the "graphical part" and overhead don't need to be on the
servers we have deployed. Is the network overhead worth the offload?
Yes, because we use these connections so infrequently.

Howard

[Justin W Elam]

Yes Howard , guacamole works for it's use case, just like Plan9.

In your case you might even be better off using Google Chromeboxes and have everyone connect to a special server for what is needed using Google's project for work. It's called G suite and it is free to try.

More information is available here.

https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html

Or you could try testing guacamole using AWS and LDAP from Gsuite, 

Using IPP to print , and connect to a Plan9 or other Linux   instance for nfs services.

 If you want to store information elsewhere. 

You possibly may be needing to use some type of ERP or accounting package like postbooks or something like that.

However Plan9 probably would be something that will not work for your muggles.

However most people are comfortable using Google suite or Microsoft Suite right?

Here is a comparison of what they offer.

https://gsuite.google.com/compare-editions/

It also has a large marketplace of partners as well. Blackbaud, Dynamics, Zoho, WebEx, and a lot of other partners are also available in the g suite marketplace too.

As well as Chrome for Enterprises which allows anyone with a chrome device login to the Google suite network applications with their credentials.

You can also use POS systems like clover or others that are available from firms like FirstData.

You can also use other service providers for payroll , time clock, and so forth like Sage, Sap,  Epicor, Netsuite , Rippling, Paychex, Workday, ADP , Xero, and others.

https://www.getapp.com/hr-employee-management-software/payroll/w/google-apps-for-business/

Note using the cloud 

it makes things easier =]

It also depends on what you want or need to do.

All you could need is something a la LTSp

https://ltsp.org/

However I think thin station like is going to be a better bet if you all ready have thin clients around. And you are already using RDP. Versus PCoIP.

https://www.vmadmin.co.uk/resources/53-view/244-viewthinstation

More information about Plan9 is available at this site wiki.

https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/

https://css.csail.mit.edu/6.824/2014/papers/plan9.pdf here is a paper discussing some of how Plan9 works.

https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/a-pi-powered-plan-9-cluster

Here is a cool design for a small Raspberry Pi Plan9 Cluster for research and development.

https://www.trustradius.com/products/citrix-workspace/competitors

Hopefully this will help out.

You may just need to copy data using "DD" to a new disk.

Then you can start over with the latest operating system you want to use.

I recommend using Debian, or RedHat with your favorite GUI, KDe, XFCE, gnome or others.

If you use others your mileage may vary.

We use RedHat and pay for it, along with IBM, and others. We also use AWS, Microsoft, and a lot of other stuff.

Anyway if Centos Linux s not working.

You may want to try using Centos Stream which is a bit behind Fedora.

https://wiki.centos.org/

Let me know if you need more information or assistance.

Warm regards,

Justin

[Howard White]

Justin,

You've got the "thin" part on the wrong side of the equation.

I want the impact of the GUI to be thin on the _server,_ heavy on the
_desktop._ Don't need not steeeenkin Chromebooks or thin clients. Our
standard Win10 (cough, cough) or linux GUI desktops have more than
enough capacity and we use them all the time. Let the desktop computers
do the presentation. Move some of the "RDP" stuff off of the server
onto the desktop. Put the "g" part of gparted on the desktop system.
Cups almost does this but not really.

Howard

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[Justin W Elam]

Ok Howard I think I understand what you mean.

For what you are using it for Centos with XFCE will be better for you.

As it does provide a GUI.

You should be able to install it from the terminal.

1. $ sudo yum install -y epel-release
2. $ sudo yum groupinstall -y "Xfce"
3. $ sudo reboot

Enjoy =]

Warm regards,

Justin

[Howard White]

Yeah. I did the XFCE install and _then_ I did the
yum erase kde-runtime
reboot

So when I try to launch the standard terminal on the VMGuest console
(did I mention that the VMGuest console sucks?), it fails with a useless
error message. When I try to RDP to the VMGuest, it barfs. The ssh
command line is fine.

Little things

Howard

On 7/8/20 8:28 PM, Justin W Elam wrote:
> Ok Howard I think I understand what you mean.
>
>
> For what you are using it for Centos with XFCE will be better for you.
> As it does provide a GUI.
>
> You should be able to install it from the terminal.
>

> 1. $ sudo yum install -y epel-release
> 2. $ sudo yum groupinstall -y "Xfce"
> 3. $ sudo reboot
>
> Enjoy =]ah

>
> Warm regards,
> Justin
>
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[Justin W Elam]

Howard

Have you tried right clicking and making sure you are logging in as an XFCE Session?

Instead of gnome?

Let me see if I can find a photo somewhere.

When you’re at the login screen, simply select the cog icon and pick Xfce Session, as shown below. This preference should be remembered and automatically selected for next time.

https://www.rootusers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/xfce-login.jpg

[Justin W Elam]

Howard

The command to start XFCE is

"startxfce4"

https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/getting-started

Hopefully this will help you with starting to use xfce as a window manager.

$

Justin

[Tilghman Lesher]

Yes, we have the same problem with Windows users. People see the 'X',
and just disconnect, when they clearly meant to sign off.

The solution I would suggest is that you activate autologout in KDE
after the user is idle for some specified amount of time. This
additionally would improve workstation security. Here's a thread
about it, along with the suggested change:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/automatic-logout-after-inactivity-from-kde-293680/

If 10 minutes (600 seconds) is not sufficiently long for your users,
you could pick another value, though the longer the time, the less
security that option provides.

Unfortunately, a lot of this comes down to training. Whatever the
issue is with hang upon xrdp disconnect, I think it's likely to follow
the application, not the desktop environment.

On akonadi, have you discovered the 'akonadictl' command? That should
provide a way to get akonadi server to stop and never come back, at
least until an upgrade re-triggers it.

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Tilghman

[Alex Smith (K4RNT)]

I'm not familiar with what you're looking for. I just use X2Go (formerly NoMachine NX).

" 'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we’re all damaged." - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode "The Drumhead"
- Alex Smith

- Kent, Washington (metropolitan Seattle area)

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