Transatlantic barges
Ken Tanner
ken tanner
narrow boat sixpence
master mariner (foreign going)- BSc
no sailing barge would be considered as seaworthy for this voyage for
insurance purposes
--
and soon came out the thin
Marc Donovan <spam...@dnrc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5tol4u4o06co7gaau...@4ax.com...
> (my humble apologies to nl.sport.varen for not translating the following
to
> Dutch. Very impolite of me, I know. Unfortunately, I cannot find a single
> online translation service that would have helped and my dutch is
> non-existent.)
>
> I have heard a reputable source state that it was possible to do
> transatlantic crossings with certain types of dutch and english sailing
> barges. I realise that people have taken most things that float across the
> atlantic, but this was described as something that would have been
> considered one of the design parameters. I doubt such a vessel would have
> been as comfortable in rough seas as a dedicated blue-water cruiser, but
> I'm intrigued by the ability to get between areas where coastal hopping is
> possible.
>
> Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any evidence of my own for this
> "blue water" capability. Could anyone point me to some resources that
might
> shed some light on this statement? For my own reasons I'm hoping it's
true,
> but it would be nice to confirm or deny.
>
> I can be reached at marc.s...@dnrc.co.uk if you don't wish to post your
> answer to the newsgroup. I'll summarise my findings later if there is any
> interest.
>
> thank you.
>
> --
> Marc Donovan.
> email: ma...@dnrc.co.uk
Ian Johnston
wrote:
: I have heard a reputable source state that it was possible to do
: transatlantic crossings with certain types of dutch and english sailing
: barges.
http://www.clipper-ventures.com/news/archive/press_releases/000615Plym
outh_Baker.htm
includes:
"The converted barge in which [Matt Baker] completed his first
trans-Atlantic crossing..."
so it sounds as if at least one person has done it and survived.
Ian
Mike Stevens
Marc Donovan <don...@dnrc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:csim4uokns2jb9mtm...@4ax.com...
> "Ken Tanner" <gran...@care4free.net> said:
>
> >you must be joking
>
> actually, I'm not.
>
> >no sailing barge would be considered as seaworthy for this voyage for
> >insurance purposes
>
> you can convince the insurance that it is seaworthy you're in with a
> chance. Most insurance I've seen is pretty bespoke for most boats, unlike
> cars or motorcycles.
The DTI (or whoever) regulations for Thames Sailing Barges currently limit
them, when carrying passengers, to a very restricted set of waters around
the Thames estuary. In the days of trade, they use to ply for some distance
along the coast and across the channel, but no further than this.
Personally I'd not want to be in a sailing barge in the Atlantic any more
than I;d want to be in a narrowboat in the estuary. But then my name's
neither Coburn nor Beeky.
--
Mike Stevens, nb Felis Catus II
Don't you just hate rhetorical questions?
Off-list replies, please, to michael...@which.net
Web site http://www.mike-stevens.co.uk (Waterways World's Site of the
Month, March 2001)
Molly
r.ntlworld.com>, Mike Stevens (Mike Stevens <mike...@which.net>) wrote
>Personally I'd not want to be in a sailing barge in the Atlantic any more
>than I;d want to be in a narrowboat in the estuary.
Or in the especially-designed narrowboat (with mast and sail) which made
it from Newfoundland to Ireland.
--
Molly
Spammers are like tapeworms: they leech the life from the Internet and
provide nothing of benefit in return. (Patricia A. Shaffer)
Simon Brooke
> "Ken Tanner" <gran...@care4free.net> said:
>
> >you must be joking
>
> actually, I'm not.
>
> >no sailing barge would be considered as seaworthy for this voyage for
> >insurance purposes
>
> You could very well be right. On the other hand, from that I've seen if
> you can convince the insurance that it is seaworthy you're in with a
> chance. Most insurance I've seen is pretty bespoke for most boats, unlike
> cars or motorcycles.
A thames type barge (I don't know enough about dutch types to comment)
is essentially like a very, very large dinghy. It has no ballast keel,
can be capsized, and if thrown on its beam ends has no righting
couple. It also has a flat bottom, and will potentially pound
horribly.
However both these effects are affected by scaling factors. Taking two
boats of identical proportion but different size, the capsizing force
increases with the square of the length, but the righting moment
increases with the cube of the length. So a 100 foot barge will
capsize at ten times the wind speed that a ten foot model will
capsize. In practice thames barges have only very rarely been
capsized. Obviously, a very lightly loaded barge will be less stable
than one loaded to her design capacity.
It's worth remembering that Captain Cook's Endeavour was a collier
brig about the same size as a thames barge and with a very similar
underwater shape. So there's no reason why such a boat could not be
taken across an ocean.
One issue is the rig. The spritsail main on a barge is huge, and is
extremely difficult to raise and lower - this normally cannot be done
by the crew at sea. It's efficient and easily handled, but every rig
has its inherent disadvantage and this is the disadvantage of large
spritsails. To reduce sail you brail it, which leaves a considerable
amount of windage and weight aloft - not fun in a storm in open
water. If I had to cross an ocean on a barge, I'd probably lower the
rig in port and cross under motor.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Morning had broken, and I found when I looked that we had run out
of copper roove nails.
Pieter Wierenga
wrote:
>(my humble apologies to nl.sport.varen for not translating the following to
>Dutch. Very impolite of me, I know.
well, naughty actually ;-)
>Unfortunately, I cannot find a single
>online translation service that would have helped and my dutch is
>non-existent.)
never mind, almost all dutch read&speak a kind of english.
(as they pay in a kind of euro's)
>I have heard a reputable source state that it was possible to do
>transatlantic crossings with certain types of dutch and english sailing
>barges.
><................>
>Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any evidence of my own for this
>"blue water" capability.
Dutch seatjalks and koftjalks were "designed" for sailing the Baltics
and the UK.
Though the sailingcapabilities of tjalks in common are lousy but
attractive (;-)), some of these vessels made trans-atlantic crossings
to New Foundland. (!!)
You can bet these skippers knew what they were doing. They were
insured as well.
These designs were rapidly followed up by small scoonertypes that
sailed all over the world but actually were meant for european waters.
This was round 1900, when the dieselengine became more popular, so
completely motorized coasters replaced the scooners.
Cheers, Pieter
Jeremy Nunns
Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> writes
>Marc Donovan <don...@dnrc.co.uk> writes:
>
>>
>> >no sailing barge would be considered as seaworthy for this voyage for
>> >insurance purposes
>>
>extremely difficult to raise and lower - this normally cannot be done
>by the crew at sea. It's efficient and easily handled, but every rig
>has its inherent disadvantage and this is the disadvantage of large
>spritsails. To reduce sail you brail it, which leaves a considerable
>amount of windage and weight aloft - not fun in a storm in open
>water. If I had to cross an ocean on a barge, I'd probably lower the
>rig in port and cross under motor.
>
A friend of mine - a former North Sea Ferry captain - did something
basically similar to that when bringing a Dutch Barge from Holland to
Essex (sorry, I can't remember the vessel's name). It had just been
bought by a friend of his who wanted it ferried to the U.K. He
installed all the safety equipment he considered to be necessary,
removed all the sails and motored all the way across. I don't think it
was very fast, but that didn't trouble him. In return, he now gets to
go sailing in the barge in the relatively sheltered estuaries.
Jeremy Nunns
Cambridge
--
Jeremy Nunns
Technical Director
WorldWideCards, a division of Cybercard - real cards for real people
http://www.WorldWideCards.co.uk and http://www.cybercard.co.uk
Leo V
Marc Donovan
>I have heard a reputable source state that it was possible to do
>transatlantic crossings with certain types of dutch and english sailing
>barges
For my own reasons I'm hoping it's true,
>but it would be nice to confirm or deny.
>
O Yes, "they" did that. In st Martin there was one barge who did that in the
60's. 30 m long, not a small type.
Remember that they have a lot of internal ballast nowadays, to keep it in
the area of the designed waterline. that helps the rightning moment.
I have seen some stability curves at the marin in Delft where they
tanktested barges. They appeared really better then you will think. (and
some barges are quicker when sailed backwards ;*))
I have read something about a smaller 7.50 type, a zeeschouw that crossed
the ocean to. Something like this
http://www.billingboats.com/share/st_zees.html
It has been done, and I would go with one !!!
BTW there is still some remeniscants in London about the old Paling (eel)
trade between Friesland and London.They did that in ???? barges...
Cheeerio Leo
-smartie-
'barge'?? Ik volg alles wat gezegd wordt maar dat ene woord niet... en dan
mis je toch de inhoud... :-(
-smartie-
Pieter Wierenga <pj.wi...@12move.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
3c4bed28...@fb1.euro.net...
Pieter Wierenga
wrote:
>A thames type barge (I don't know enough about dutch types to comment)
>is essentially like a very, very large dinghy. It has no ballast keel,
>can be capsized, and if thrown on its beam ends has no righting
>couple. It also has a flat bottom, and will potentially pound
>horribly.
most of this count for windjammers as well.
Cheers, Pieter
Leo V
-smartie- wrote in message ...
>kan iemand misschien vertellen wat precies bedoeld worden met het woord
>'barge'?? Ik volg alles wat gezegd wordt maar dat ene woord niet... en dan
>mis je toch de inhoud... :-(
Barge= vrachtbak.
Vergelijkbaar Nautisch Verantwoord Nederlands= platbodem zoals tjalk of
klipper.
Leo V
Leo V
Pieter Wierenga wrote
Simon Brooke
>It has no ballast keel,
>>can be capsized, and if thrown on its beam ends has no righting
>>couple. It also has a flat bottom, and will potentially pound
>>horribly.
>
>most of this count for windjammers as well.
ROFL
LeoV
-smartie-
--
smartie
brian
news:3l0fGBBc...@yours.demon.co.uk...
> In article <87ofjoc...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>, Simon
> Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> writes
> >Marc Donovan <don...@dnrc.co.uk> writes:
> >
> >water. If I had to cross an ocean on a barge, I'd probably lower the
> >rig in port and cross under motor.
> >
>
> A friend of mine - a former North Sea Ferry captain - did something
> basically similar to that when bringing a Dutch Barge from Holland to
> Essex (sorry, I can't remember the vessel's name). It had just been
> bought by a friend of his who wanted it ferried to the U.K. He
> installed all the safety equipment he considered to be necessary,
> removed all the sails and motored all the way across. I don't think it
I've seen a Drilling Rig with sails. They ran them up the legs. It wa a
jackup rig so when under way has about 100ft of leg sticking up in the air.
--
--
Brian from sunny Suffolk by the river Hundred
The East Anglian Narrowboat Moving Co.
.co.uk
Pieter Wierenga
>BTW there is still some remeniscants in London about the old Paling (eel)
>trade between Friesland and London.They did that in ???? barges...
heb ik net een boek over gelezen.
geschreven door een ex-bemanningslid.
tjonge wat een scheepjes
en bemand met 3 man.
daar doen kaap hoornreisjes niet voor onder.
Cheers, Pieter
A Stott
<nos...@mockfords.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, in article <kpJ28.60853$WQ1.9...@news6-win.serve
>r.ntlworld.com>, Mike Stevens (Mike Stevens <mike...@which.net>) wrote
>
>>Personally I'd not want to be in a sailing barge in the Atlantic any more
>>than I;d want to be in a narrowboat in the estuary.
>
>Or in the especially-designed narrowboat (with mast and sail) which made
>it from Newfoundland to Ireland.
I recently received a message from a DBA member who has a barge in San
Francisco. He took it there from Europe by water.
Adrian
Adrian Stott
Phone +44-7956-299966
schippertje
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:44:01 GMT, st...@enable.telinco.com (A Stott)
> wrote:
> > I recently received a message from a DBA member who has a barge in San
> > Francisco. He took it there from Europe by water.
>
> via the North West Passage or around Cape Horn?
How about the Panama canal? (I suppose you were joking).
--
schippertje