PBN News
Tis Veugen
I would like to report the following news about PBN (Portable Bridge
Notation).
PBN is the format of bridge games used by many (non)commercial programs.
More info is available at the PBN homepage
http://www.iae.nl/users/veugent/pbn.html :
1. Fred Gitelman of Bridge Base Inc. has written a Windows95 program to
view bridge
movies. The program can handle several bridge formats among which PBN. The
program can be downloaded from http://www.bridgebase.com.
2. The freeware Wbridge5 program of Yves Costel can now be downloaded from
http://perso.chello.fr/yvescostel.
This program is able to read and write PBN files.
3. Hans Leber has added PBN support in version 6 of the Q-plus bridge
program, see http://www.q-plus.com.
The program is able to import and export PBN files.
4. The SmartBridge program of Francesco Barcio can now be downloaded from
http://smartbridge.netfirms.com/index.htm, or
http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/games/smbridge.zip
It is able to cope with the PBN 2.0 feature ScoreTable.
5. Masakatsu Sugino has made a Windows program that presents bridge hands
in a graphical
way together with the results of a complete double dummy analysis.
The program (PS Bridge Hand) can be downloaded from
http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~psbridge/index.html.
6. Dré Ruigrok has made an MS-DOS program (in Dutch), called 'verdelen', to
generate random
deals, after optionally specifying a certain number of cards. The program
saves the deals in PBN format.
7. The databases of many tournaments can be obtained from the archive
http://nav.to/pbnarchive
8. Michel Franssen has made available the games of many Dutch tournaments on
his website
http://home.wanadoo.nl/michel.franssen
Best regards,
Tis Veugen
(veu...@iae.nl)
Lorne Russell
To do this the table host clicks on Options, Load Hand, select the *.pbn
file and the first hand will load. Play a hand then click Next for the next
hand, Same to reload the hand, Previous to load the hand previously played.
"Tis Veugen" <veu...@iae.nl> wrote in message
news:94a9gb$5mi$1...@news.IAEhv.nl...
Nelson Ford
Bridge
> Notation).
> PBN is the format of bridge games used by many (non)commercial
programs.
> More info is available at the PBN homepage
> http://www.iae.nl/users/veugent/pbn.html :
I have thought many times how nice it would be if we could
relocate this newsgroup to a web site which would offer a
(java?) program to post/read/reply messages and which
would support PBN, making it oh-so-much easier to write
and read bridge problem deals posted here, trying out different
lines of play double-dummy, etc.
Does this seem at all feasible?
Nelson Ford
http://www.hsbridge.com
Julian Lighton
Nelson Ford <nrf...@excite.com> wrote:
>I have thought many times how nice it would be if we could
>relocate this newsgroup to a web site which would offer a
>(java?) program to post/read/reply messages and which
>would support PBN, making it oh-so-much easier to write
>and read bridge problem deals posted here, trying out different
>lines of play double-dummy, etc.
>
>Does this seem at all feasible?
No. There are several problems with the idea, which outweigh the
advantages of being able to do what you describe:
The discussion group now has a single point of failure; if the web
site goes down, or has network problems, nobody can read or post.
People far away from the site will get truly abysmal performance.
The site has to be able to handle the entire load of everybody who
wants to read it, as opposed to having it spread around.
There is somebody with the ability to control what discussion shows up
on the site, and who can post. This may not always seem like a bad
thing, but it's hardly an unambiguous benefit.
Not all web browsers support Java. Even those that do may have reason
to want it turned off in general.
If you don't use Java, just HTML+CGI, then you run into the fact that
web browsers don't do a great job as a newsreader.
You lock everybody into one person's idea of the right newsreading
interface. I strongly suspect that I'd loathe your newsreader, and
you would think the same of mine.
--
Julian Lighton jl...@fragment.com
"Well, in that case, we're all going to die a horrible, painful,
lingering death."
"Thank you. I feel so much better now." -- Babylon 5
Nelson Ford
news:aUNa6.295$9q6....@newshog.newsread.com...
> In article <t6m5mm3...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Nelson Ford <nrf...@excite.com> wrote:
> >I have thought many times how nice it would be if we could
> >relocate this newsgroup to a web site which would offer a
> >(java?) program to post/read/reply messages and which
> >would support PBN, making it oh-so-much easier to write
> >and read bridge problem deals posted here, trying out
different
> >lines of play double-dummy, etc.
> >
> >Does this seem at all feasible?
>
> No. There are several problems with the idea, which outweigh
the
> advantages of being able to do what you describe:
>
> The discussion group now has a single point of failure; if the
web
> site goes down, or has network problems, nobody can read or
post.
True in theory, but presumably we would get a host whose
site very rarely goes down. For example, does anyone know
how often ACBL's site has been down in the last year?
As much as I would hate to not be able to log on here daily,
if we had to miss a day or so on very rare occassion, I think
that would be a more than adequate trade-off for the
advantages of more powerful bridge message reading/writing
software.
> People far away from the site will get truly abysmal
performance.
Hmmm. I wasn't aware of that. I've been to many distant sites
and still got good performance, but I'll take your word for it.
> The site has to be able to handle the entire load of everybody
who
> wants to read it, as opposed to having it spread around.
My impression is that the number of people using this NG is not
all *that* large, relatively speaking. But anyway, we would
presumably get a host with big enough wheels to carry us.
> There is somebody with the ability to control what discussion
shows up
> on the site, and who can post. This may not always seem like a
bad
> thing, but it's hardly an unambiguous benefit.
The host software should be automated, and the understanding
should be that all messages (other than OT spam) must be posted.
> Not all web browsers support Java. Even those that do may have
reason
> to want it turned off in general.
>
> If you don't use Java, just HTML+CGI, then you run into the
fact that
> web browsers don't do a great job as a newsreader.
I am not qualified to respond to the objections above, but...
If not Java, couldn't a client program be written to interface
with the host's CGI? With a reader program running on the
user's machine and only small amounts of data needing to
be downloaded at a time, I would think performance would
be splendid.
> You lock everybody into one person's idea of the right
newsreading
> interface. I strongly suspect that I'd loathe your newsreader,
and
> you would think the same of mine.
I see no reason not to have more than one reader. Presumably
the specs would be published so that anyone could write a
compatible reader, then you can use yours and I, mine.
Nelson Ford
Julian Lighton
Nelson Ford <nrf...@excite.com> wrote:
>"Julian Lighton" <jl...@fragment.com> wrote in message
>news:aUNa6.295$9q6....@newshog.newsread.com...
>> >relocate this newsgroup to a web site which would offer a
>> >(java?) program to post/read/reply messages and which
>> >would support PBN, making it oh-so-much easier to write
>> >and read bridge problem deals posted here, trying out
>different
>> >lines of play double-dummy, etc.
>> >
>> >Does this seem at all feasible?
>>
>> No. There are several problems with the idea, which outweigh
>the
>> advantages of being able to do what you describe:
>>
>> The discussion group now has a single point of failure; if the
>web
>> site goes down, or has network problems, nobody can read or
>post.
>
>True in theory, but presumably we would get a host whose
>site very rarely goes down. For example, does anyone know
>how often ACBL's site has been down in the last year?
I don't know, (Though I know there have been times at least some
people have been unable to get to it.) but they're also paying for
their connectivity. Who'd pay for the newsgroup's?
>> People far away from the site will get truly abysmal
>performance.
>
>Hmmm. I wasn't aware of that. I've been to many distant sites
>and still got good performance, but I'll take your word for it.
I may be exaggerating somewhat, but performance does drop with
distance, especially if you're crossing oceans. (Also, with crossing
oceans, some places get charged for trans-oceanic traffic. Getting
the contents of a newsgroup across the pipe once, then distributing it
locally, is much better.)
>> The site has to be able to handle the entire load of everybody
>who
>> wants to read it, as opposed to having it spread around.
>
>My impression is that the number of people using this NG is not
>all *that* large, relatively speaking.
Depends what you mean by *that* large. I have no hard numbers, (I
don't know if anybody does anymore) but it's probably safe to say
there's at least an order of magnitude more readers than posters, and
I'd guess there's more than that.
> But anyway, we would
>presumably get a host with big enough wheels to carry us.
Once again, who'll pay for it? (Assume 75K of outbound data per
reader per day, so two and a quarter megs per month. Doesn't sound
like a lot nowadays, but 500 readers clears a gig easily. That's not
insignificant.)
>> There is somebody with the ability to control what discussion
>shows up
>> on the site, and who can post. This may not always seem like a
>bad
>> thing, but it's hardly an unambiguous benefit.
>
>The host software should be automated, and the understanding
>should be that all messages (other than OT spam) must be posted.
That's nice in theory, and possibly sufficient for this group, but you
have to trust the people who run the site. (And the people who pay
the bills.)
>> Not all web browsers support Java. Even those that do may have
>reason
>> to want it turned off in general.
>>
>> If you don't use Java, just HTML+CGI, then you run into the
>fact that
>> web browsers don't do a great job as a newsreader.
>
>I am not qualified to respond to the objections above, but...
>If not Java, couldn't a client program be written to interface
>with the host's CGI? With a reader program running on the
>user's machine and only small amounts of data needing to
>be downloaded at a time, I would think performance would
>be splendid.
Yeah, you could write a bastard cross-breed of newsreader and web
browser, but it's still not likely to get better performance than
local NNTP. (You could end up re-implementing NNTP over HTTP, but
that's just plain silly, and you've still got to make it
comprehensible to ordinary web browsers.)
>> You lock everybody into one person's idea of the right
>newsreading
>> interface. I strongly suspect that I'd loathe your newsreader,
>and
>> you would think the same of mine.
>
>I see no reason not to have more than one reader. Presumably
>the specs would be published so that anyone could write a
>compatible reader,
Somebody has to write them, though. Most people would wonder why
they'd want to, when there already perfectly good web browsers and
newsreaders out there.
> then you can use yours and I, mine.
If somebody writes one that each of us likes. There are a _lot_ of
different newsreaders out there. People won't want to run a
completely different program for just this one thing, especially if
it's not the same as the tools they're used to.
--
Julian Lighton jl...@fragment.com
"Some will die in hot pursuit, in fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit, while sifting through my ashes"
-- Butthole Surfers
Nelson Ford
it was ready. Wish I had a better newsreader. <g>
"Julian Lighton" <jl...@fragment.com> wrote in message
news:j06b6.438$9q6....@newshog.newsread.com...
Nelson Ford
hasn't shown up on here, so I'm not sure what happened
to it. So to repeat from that message:
To respond to your 2 main questions:
1. Who will host? Someone with a vested interest, such
as ACBL or OKBridge.
2. "There already perfectly good web browsers and
newsreaders out there." and "People won't want to run
a completely different program for just this one thing."
They would if the advantages of a dedicated program
were great enough. Think of all the problems we have
on here which could be eliminated:
- typos in deals rendering the post unanswerable,
- deals where the poster forgot to specify the IMPs
or matchpoints, or vulnerability, etc., etc.
- deals where the layout of the cards and/or bidding
are jumbled and incomprehensible.
Think how much nicer it would be, when you read a
post, if instead a bunch of jumbled text, you get a
screen that looks like something from a bridge program
with the hands neatly spread out (with cards), with the
bidding in a neat box, with the vulnerability and scoring
method shown... Who wouldn't love it?
Anyway, feasible or not, I was just saying I *wish* we could
have something like this.
Nelson Ford
"Julian Lighton" <jl...@fragment.com> wrote in message
news:j06b6.438$9q6....@newshog.newsread.com...
Matthew L. Ginsberg
to something else seems to come up from time to time. So far, the
plain text folks have always won out. The argument generally involves
a lot of screaming where the plain text people call the other folks
fascists (or the equivalent) and the html (or whatever) people call
the plain text folks Neanderthals (or the equivalent).
Personally, I use a news reader that is restricted to plain text.
If the group were to change to another format, I would drop out.
Of course, that might be a good thing; I could get some work done. : )
Matt Ginsberg