NXDN Repeater in NW Tampa

[Charles Rivenbark]

I am looking to set up an NXDN repeater in NW Tampa (Carrollwood area) and have a couple of questions:

 

1.  I am looking at a relatively localized (range map attached) repeater on 2m and putting out 25W.  The intent is for local CERT use but I figured, why not include NXDN on top of that.  Is it worth doing the NXDN side with the limited coverage?  I could push 50W as well if desired but I didn't know if that would bump into too many other repeaters space.

 

2.  I am looking at using the Kenwood NXR-710 but have also been looking at the ICOM IC-FR5000.  I know that the bulk of the NXDN repeaters in "the net" are ICOMs, is that by choice or just convention?

 

3.  Would it be worth networking the repeater to the NXDN network?  If so what additional modules/options do I need (e.g. the UC and CF modules for ICOM)?

 

4.  Is there an NXDN repeater manager who manages the frequencies as well or do I just go through the normal Florida Repeater Council for approval and freq?

 

5.  Is the 2m band so full that getting a repeater freq is going to be impossible?

 

[Paul Toth-NB9X]

Charles....

 

Let me address your note below and the questions you have raised.

 

I was recently asked by another CERT group in the area for input on putting up an Amateur Radio repeater to support their operations.  My advise to you will be the same as I offered them.  That is, a UHF repeater is the most appropriate way to go for these reasons:

1. VHF pairs are impossible to get coordnated by the Florida Repeater Council, particularly in metropolitan areas.   There are UHF pairs available.  Mike Fletcher_NI4M is your FRC District Director in Hillsborough County.
2. UHF has much better building penetration than VHF has.  It will simply work better, particularly for the CERT application you are looking at.
3. The ICOM UR-FR6000 repeater module will work well for your application.  If you wish to connect the repeater to the NXDN Network (like the NI4CE repeater at Riverview is), you will need to also purchase the UCFR-5000 controller card and CF-FR5000 02 memory card.  Both are installed inside the repeater chassis.  You will also need a 20A power supply.  I also recommend a battery back capability since this proposed repeater would likely be needed with mains power is not available.  The UR-FR6000 runs off 13.8 VDC power.
4. Now, I also going to offer a thought you may want to consider and is fully compatible with the hardware discussed in Point 3 above.  To use your repeater most effectively in an emergency, you will want to have as many CERT Team Members equipped with portable radios.  If only a small percentage of your members are licensed Amateur Radio operators, you will be at a HUGE disadvantage when you need communications most.  Your CERT organization may wish to consider getting a Part 90 FCC license for the repeater and the end-user radios. Then all CERT members can be radio equipped and fully dunctional in an emergency.  Any NXDN radio you would purchase to operate on this repeater is already Part 90 Type Accepted and can be legally used on this system.  If individual members or the CERT organization wish to purchase less expensive Part 90 ANALOG radios. they are available and in many cases more ruggedized than most Ham grade equipment.  Your repeater and NXDN radios can also be configured to opetate in MIXED analog-NXDN mode for interoperability.  If you would like more information on this option, please contact me offline at pt...@mancetech.com.

I hope this answers your questions,.  If you still have questions, please feel free to contact me through this reflector or at the email address listed above.

 

73 de Paul-NB9X

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[Evans F. Mitchell; KD4EFM / WQOD 582]

Charles,

 

1, Icom and Kenwood’s bot handle MIXED MODE, analog and NXDN CAI.

 

2, I am also a KWD dealer, but, there are Icom’s out there, but there are also Kenwood’s on the net also.
your choice, but you will have to weigh out what you want it to do out of the box. (network questions next)

There are Kenwood Guys and there are Icom guys. Either way, it can do digital NOW at 6.25khz bandwidth.

 

3, with Riverview and it’s wide area coverage on UHF, you are wanting VHF (question 5) but that can be an
issue, you can request Mike NI4M for a 12.5 or 6.25 frequency. It is harder for METRO 2m then UHF. All

you can do is ask. Go very narrowband, but even more, go 6.25, the noise floor is 3 dB lower than 12.5.
We (Lakeland 146.655) get well over 50 miles of coverage. LOVE IT! Most of the network, however is UHF.
There are 3 VHF repeaters total in the whole network.

So it should not be a problem if you, but I recommend UHF for its penetration values.

 

4, Florida, well, FRC and NI4M is our coordinator for District 4. You could go 1 meg split, but that is

working uncoordinated, but with the 7- One Meg Offset repeaters in the state, I have not heard any

issues so far.

 

5, Like Paul Toth said, think about UHF. Now as for Part 90, there’s money involved in that, and I am

in no way going to say anything against that, I am the radio business for communications reasons.

Getting a VHF Part 90 is a matter of going through and applying with a frequency coordinator and

getting a VHF or UHF pair. (again UHF would be great but part 90 UHF is about the same as FRC 2m for Tampa)

 

But if you are only looking for 10 to 15 mile coverage in the Lake Magdalene Area, you need 50 feet
and 50 watt repeater. (duplexer loss, line loss and how thick the trees are up there, yeah 50 watt)

 

The Kenwood, you will need to get the KTI-3 module, and that’s $170 and if you go ham with the NXR710/810

I can assist you on getting on the NXDN Reflector with minimal issues.

The ICOM, you need to get the UC/CF modules, network connection is fairly simple with this.

 

I can get you with you in private to provide you with some prices. I have contact with a local Icom

shop and a list from them. I am also a Kenwood dealer here in Lakeland. I have HAM friendly pricing

with the gear as well.

 

 

Paul gave good points, so no further repeat from me.

 

 

 

 

Evans F. Mitchell
KD4EFM / WQOD 582
  http://www.florida-dstar.info
  http://www.nxdninfo.com

   NXDN / TDMA-2slot
      D-Star / P-25
    Digital HAM RADIO
 Product Support and Programmer

I.T.T. Tech Graduate – AAS – EET 91’

20+ yrs 2-Way Radio Tech. Experience

 

From: ni4ce-nx...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ni4ce-nx...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Rivenbark
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 1:18 PM
To: ni4ce-nx...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [NI4CE-NXDN] NXDN Repeater in NW Tampa

 

I am looking to set up an NXDN repeater in NW Tampa (Carrollwood area) and have a couple of questions:

--

[Charles Rivenbark]

Thanks Evans and Paul for the input.  We have a lot of amateur licensed operators on our CERT teams and the intent was to use this for inter-team communications while using something like FRS for intra-team comms.  Based on your feedback I will be going for the UHF repeater (FR-6000 or NXR-810) with mixed-mode NXDN/Analog.  Is there a standard set of talk group numbers (local vs NI4CE vs nationwide vs global) if/when I decide to network it?

[Charles Rivenbark]

Another question.  Is a duplexer the way to go for the UHF repeater or split antennas?  I have the capability to do horizontal but not vertical separation but would prefer (cost-wise) to go with a single antenna.

[Evans F. Mitchell; KD4EFM / WQOD 582]

Duplexer; yes

What kind? Either the high end and or the mobile version…

A suggested use would be the mobile version BpBr. UNLESS you are in a high rf environment.

FOR INFORMATIONAL REASONS;

this is one you can use; 50 watt Sinclair mobile duplexer

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=431486&eventPage=2

View all of them;

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=90327&subgroupId=90516&page=1

 

 

Talkgroup information, we (Paul or Evans or others) will assist you on that when needed.

[Paul Toth-NB9X]

Charles....

 

In this instance, use of a duplexer would be the preferred way to go.  You might also think about a Receive Pre-Amp and Bandpass filter to front end the pre-amp for additional receiver sensitivity.  Remember, the ability of a 5 watt radio to talk into a repeater can be severely attenuated by concrete and re-bar, metal roofs and foliage.

 

As for Talkgroups, NI4CE has standarded on two.  TG1201 is LOCAL only and will allow operators to use the Riverview repeater without going out onto the NXDN-WW Net.  TG65000 opens the gateway to NXDN-WW and allows operators to connect to other distant repeaters.

 

Talkgroups are primarily used for organizing operators.  If you have a need for more than one Talkgroup, program it into your radios.  But if everyone can work on one Talkgroup, even better.  One final note.  TG65535 allows you to supercede all Talkgroups and talk with everyone on the frequency at the same time.  In the hours and days followi8ng a Tropical Weather disaster, more severe weather can and will occur.  TG65535 will let you communicate new warnings or other important information to everyone at the same time.

 

73 de Paul-NB9X

----- Original Message -----

From: Charles Rivenbark

To: ni4ce-nx...@googlegroups.com

[Jamie A. Stapleton]

Attached is a file with information about a UHF Duplexer which is similar to the TESSCO, but with better specifications.  It is about half the price as well.