Adams visa update
JC
For those unaware, this is how the Gerry Adams visa campaign has
progressed,
In response to the Minister for Immigration banning Gerry Adams from
Australia, which took place at a press conference on 7 November,1996,
Gerry
Adams commenced an action in the Federal Court in Brisbane to overturn the
Minister's decision. Gerry Adams was coming to Australia to publicise his
autobiography "Before the Dawn". There was no opposition from ASIO, our
Dublin embassy or Ruddock's own department. Ruddock stated that Gerry
Adams
was not of good character because of his continued association with the
"PIRA".
The use of the term "PIRA" generated controversy as the term is not used in
Australia. The press cited it as evidence that Ruddock or his department
copied the statement verbatim, in part at least, from a document issued by
the British Government or one of it's agencies. The implication being that
the British made the decision and the Australian government did what they
where told.
From documentation obtained under Freedom of Information legislation it has
become clear that the Ruddock had no basis on which to make his decision.
Further action was taken in the Federal Court to force the Minister reveal
any other documentation in his possession as he did not wish to
voluntarily give up the documents. On 2 July, 1997, Justice Drummond ordered
Ruddock to supply a list of documents in his possession. The decision like
the one concerning Lorenzo Ervin has broken new ground in Immigration cases.
The next battle is expected to be in the Federal Court where it will be up
to the Judge to decide which documents will be released. The Australian
government has been ordered to release the documents detailing the reasons
they denied Mr Adams a visa.
According to Michael Morgan, president of Australian Aid for Ireland, which
is funding the legal proceedings "the hearing on December 3 is an attempt to
force the Minister's hand".
The hearing could have serious political implications for the embattled
Howard government, which since it's election last year has become perceived
as incompetent and not in control, as it comes in the middle of the election
campaign to elect delegates to the Constitutional (Republic) convention. If
the documents reveal a sycophancy towards Britain it could deliver a shot in
the arm to the Australian Republican Movement who are already ahead in the
polls.
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
Brendan Heading
JC wrote:
>
> For those unaware, this is how the Gerry Adams visa campaign has
> progressed,
Well, I didn't know about it before but I guess I know now.
> In response to the Minister for Immigration banning Gerry Adams from
> Australia, which took place at a press conference on 7 November,1996,
> Gerry
> Adams commenced an action in the Federal Court in Brisbane to overturn the
> Minister's decision. Gerry Adams was coming to Australia to publicise his
> autobiography "Before the Dawn". There was no opposition from ASIO, our
> Dublin embassy or Ruddock's own department.
What exactly do you expect ? At this point in time, due to the IRA's
decision to resume paramilitary activities, pretty much every single
political body and party on both sides of the border ended official
contacts with Sinn Fein. You could hardly expect the Australian
authorities to do any different.
Ruddock stated that Gerry
> Adams
> was not of good character because of his continued association with the
> "PIRA".
> The use of the term "PIRA" generated controversy as the term is not used in
> Australia. The press cited it as evidence that Ruddock or his department
> copied the statement verbatim, in part at least, from a document issued by
> the British Government or one of it's agencies.
Strange that the British government would grant free movement to Adams
within the UK and then tell Australia to refuse him a visa. That doesn't
make a lot of sense, does it ? Or is it just because Republicans like
beating the British government about a lot ?
>The implication being that
> the British made the decision and the Australian government did what they
> where told.
The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
> From documentation obtained under Freedom of Information legislation it has
> become clear that the Ruddock had no basis on which to make his decision.
Gerry being part of a movement with terrorist links ? That does not
count as a basis ?
Brendan Heading
Gerry Lynch
In article <34702...@news.internex.net.au>,
Bigf...@connexus.NOSPAMapana.org.au says...
>
>For those unaware, this is how the Gerry Adams visa campaign has
>progressed,
'JC' - do we look like we really care whether Gerry Adams gets to
promote his book (which flopped so dismally it was even sold in
'Bargain Books' in Belfast for £2.99 a copy) in the land of 'Oz. Do
you know how much difference that makes to the lives of those of us in
the 'conflict zone'? Do you know how much we care? Yep that's right,
NOT ONE BIT!
Slan ambhaile
Gerry Lynch, New Lodge, Belfast, Northern Ireland
http://members.tripod.com/~gi0rtn e-mail: apni at unite dot net
Elections, Northern Ireland Politics, Anglican Church, Morse Code
Views are mine and not necessarily those of the Alliance Party or Unite
Solutions Ltd - though those organisations would do well to concur!
JC
Wrote in message <3471b...@news.unite.net>...
>In article <34702...@news.internex.net.au>,
>Bigf...@connexus.NOSPAMapana.org.au says...
>>
>>For those unaware, this is how the Gerry Adams visa campaign has
>>progressed,
>
>'JC' - do we look like we really care whether Gerry Adams gets to
>promote his book (which flopped so dismally it was even sold in
>'Bargain Books' in Belfast for £2.99 a copy) in the land of 'Oz. Do
>you know how much difference that makes to the lives of those of us in
>the 'conflict zone'? Do you know how much we care? Yep that's right,
>NOT ONE BIT!
I can't tell you how much this upsets me, I can't tell you because it
does'nt.
The book is not the issue, read my post again.
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
JC
Brendan Heading wrote in message <34704D...@heading.demon.co.uk>...
> Ruddock stated that Gerry
>> Adams
>> was not of good character because of his continued association with the
>> "PIRA".
>> The use of the term "PIRA" generated controversy as the term is not used
in
>> Australia. The press cited it as evidence that Ruddock or his department
>> copied the statement verbatim, in part at least, from a document issued
by
>> the British Government or one of it's agencies.
>
>Strange that the British government would grant free movement to Adams
>within the UK and then tell Australia to refuse him a visa. That doesn't
>make a lot of sense, does it ? Or is it just because Republicans like
>beating the British government about a lot ?
These are not my opinions, they are what's being said in the press here, are
you telling us the Australian Media are also part of some republican plot!
Apart from imprisonment I really can't see how a democratic country COULD
restrict the movement of one of it's citizens within it's borders.
Your also saying that having another country support it's stance at a time
when the Americans where waivering would not be benificial to the British.
Your either naive or are trying to mislead us.
>> the British made the decision and the Australian government did what they
>> where told.
>
>The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
>in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
I'd be interested in what recent activity that would be ? I live here and
have no idea
what your talking about, please enlighten me.
>> From documentation obtained under Freedom of Information legislation it
has
>> become clear that the Ruddock had no basis on which to make his decision.
>
>Gerry being part of a movement with terrorist links ? That does not
>count as a basis ?
It does'nt with the USA why should it with the Aussies ?
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
Gerry Lynch
In article <3472d...@news.internex.net.au>,
Bigf...@connexus.NOSPAMapana.org.au says...
>>Gerry being part of a movement with terrorist links ? That does not
>>count as a basis ?
>It does'nt with the USA why should it with the Aussies ?
So, Australia takes it's cue on foreign policy from the US, does it?
That line would go down a treat with most of your fellow countrymen, I
don't think (except for those nice people in Queensland who wont give
up their automatic weaponry)!
Brendan Heading
In article <3472d...@news.internex.net.au>, JC <Bigf...@connexus.NOSP
AMapana.org.au> writes
>>Strange that the British government would grant free movement to Adams
>>within the UK and then tell Australia to refuse him a visa. That doesn't
>>make a lot of sense, does it ? Or is it just because Republicans like
>>beating the British government about a lot ?
>
>These are not my opinions, they are what's being said in the press here, are
>you telling us the Australian Media are also part of some republican plot!
Well, plainly they have their facts wrong - you will know as a
Republican that Gerry was granted free movement in the UK shortly after
the first ceasefire.
>Apart from imprisonment I really can't see how a democratic country COULD
>restrict the movement of one of it's citizens within it's borders.
Well, they did. Did the same for numerous other SF and IRA people too.
>Your also saying that having another country support it's stance at a time
>when the Americans where waivering would not be benificial to the British.
I don't see how "the British" would gain anything from it. You seem to
still be thinking along the "British are all to blame" Republican line.
>>The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
>>in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
>
>I'd be interested in what recent activity that would be ? I live here and
>have no idea
>what your talking about, please enlighten me.
I'm talking about their growing desire to leave the commonwealth and
become a republic.
>>> From documentation obtained under Freedom of Information legislation it
>has
>>> become clear that the Ruddock had no basis on which to make his decision.
>>
>>Gerry being part of a movement with terrorist links ? That does not
>>count as a basis ?
>
>It does'nt with the USA why should it with the Aussies ?
You think the USA happens to be right ?
--
Brendan Heading - bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk
(Remove spamguard to reply)
http://www.heading.demon.co.uk (heavily under construction)
http://www.unite.co.uk/customers/alliance (Alliance Party Home)
-=* Future sounds, nylon oxygen and incomprehensible software +=-
Korg DW-8000, ARP Quartet
Chad O'Reilly
>The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
>in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
Actually, they are told alot. One of the main points in this case is the
term "PIRA" was used by the minister, a term only used by British Secret
Services..
Brendan Heading
In article <6513o0$lk7$1...@grissom.powerup.com.au>, Chad O'Reilly
<ch...@powerup.com.au> writes
Sorry, but that is bollocks.
Greigor
In article <3475f...@news.internex.net.au>, "JC"
<Bigf...@connexus.NOSPAMapana.org.au> wrote:
>Congratulations to Liz & Phil on their Golden wedding anniversary.
>I've got them both something they really need !
>
>A job !
>
>--
>Regards,
>JC
>bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
Hi Darlin'
Get me one as well as the Irish Yanks are killing me with Kindness I canna
drink anymore booze EVER.
Greig
--
"Caught Red Handed by the Gruppenfurher"
Greigor
In article <UYFEvBAK...@heading.demon.co.uk>, Brendan Heading
<bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk> wrote:
>In article <6513o0$lk7$1...@grissom.powerup.com.au>, Chad O'Reilly
><ch...@powerup.com.au> writes
>>>The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
>>>in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
>>
>>
>>Actually, they are told alot. One of the main points in this case is the
>>term "PIRA" was used by the minister, a term only used by British Secret
>>Services..
>
>Sorry, but that is bollocks.
>
Is this JCs thread [I'm trying to patch things up], yeah thats bollix IMO,
I think the issue is a genuine one as Sinn Fein would like to know the
full SP on the issue as the brits have offered some really crass advice in
the past by way of "briefings" and intelligence advice, they supplied the
French Police with a load of codswallop about Republicans planning to
stiff Jewish people in Paris and set of a chain of events that had Cathal
Gouldings wee grandson being interrogated by the stupid twat that was
responsible for blowing up that Greenpeace boat.
Two references to Australia one post and I'm not sure what it's about,
Heading is right though the pira thing looks like bollix. God I'm still
drunk, I'm beginning to dislike Irish Americans if only because they've
tortured my wee head with drink.
I'm aways to look for a simpler theme
Uncle Arthur's Lonely World
>Congratulations to Liz & Phil on their Golden wedding anniversary.
>I've got them both something they really need !
>
>A job !
best wishes
unki
JC
Congratulations to Liz & Phil on their Golden wedding anniversary.
I've got them both something they really need !
A job !
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
JC
Gerry Lynch wrote in message <3472e...@news.unite.net>...
with terrorist links ? That does not
>>>count as a basis ?
>
>>It does'nt with the USA why should it with the Aussies ?
>
>So, Australia takes it's cue on foreign policy from the US, does it?
No, the point was made that the decision to deny Adams a visa was in keeping
with the position of all other countries. I exposed the error of this
assertion by pointing to the USA's position.
>That line would go down a treat with most of your fellow countrymen, I
>don't think (except for those nice people in Queensland who wont give
>up their automatic weaponry)!
Really, I wonder where the 2 million automatics surrendered in September
came from then ?
-
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
JC
Brendan Heading wrote in message ...
>In article <3472d...@news.internex.net.au>, JC <Bigf...@connexus.NOSP
>AMapana.org.au> writes
>>>Strange that the British government would grant free movement to Adams
>>>within the UK and then tell Australia to refuse him a visa. That doesn't
>>>make a lot of sense, does it ? Or is it just because Republicans like
>>>beating the British government about a lot ?
>>
>>These are not my opinions, they are what's being said in the press here,
are
>>you telling us the Australian Media are also part of some republican plot!
>
>Well, plainly they have their facts wrong - you will know as a
>Republican that Gerry was granted free movement in the UK shortly after
>the first ceasefire.
Nobody has got the facts wrong except you, I have no idea what Gerry Adam's
freedom to move within the borders of his own country has to do with a
belief
in the Australian press that our government has no opinion on his visa
request
but merely agreed to a request by Britain to deny him entry.
>
>>Apart from imprisonment I really can't see how a democratic country COULD
>>restrict the movement of one of it's citizens within it's borders.
>
>Well, they did. Did the same for numerous other SF and IRA people too.
Northern Ireland is either part of the UK or it's not, this is an example of
the
British Government wanting it both ways!
>
>>Your also saying that having another country support it's stance at a time
>>when the Americans where waivering would not be benificial to the British.
>
>I don't see how "the British" would gain anything from it. You seem to
>still be thinking along the "British are all to blame" Republican line.
I merely repeated whats being said in the press here ! Your seeing
republican plots everywhere.
>
>>>The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
>>>in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
>>
>>I'd be interested in what recent activity that would be ? I live here and
>>have no idea
>>what your talking about, please enlighten me.
>
>I'm talking about their growing desire to leave the commonwealth and
>become a republic.
I refuse to believe anyone could be so ignorant of the facts and have
concluded your deliberately trying to mislead us.
The current Australian government has no desire to leave the
Commonwealth or become a Republic
In fact they have declared their allegiances to the Monarchy, but despite
their best efforts the issue refuses to go away.
Public opinion is driving the debate, it's what the Ppeople want !
It has forced the government to set up a Constitutional convention to
examine the issue.
However in an effort to frustrate the process they have imposed
conditions on the electoral process which are unprecedented in this country
and which guarantee it's failure.
None of this has not bothered the electorate because public opinion holds
two things as inevitable,
1. A republic will happened eventually DESPITE the government.
2. the current government will not be in power beyond the end of next year.
It's predicted the electorate will respond in protest on December 6th by
recording the lowest turn out ever seen in an Australian election.
In addition you would already know that the Australian government's party
Treasurer and the British Conservative Party treasurer are the SAME person,
and that their senior strategists where seconded to the Conservative party
during the British General election earlier this year.
Yet you are trying to have us believe Australia has a government that is
totally independent from British politics.
>You think the USA happens to be right ?
Absolutely !
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
Greigor
>
>Nobody has got the facts wrong except you, I have no idea what Gerry Adam's
>freedom to move within the borders of his own country has to do with a
>belief
>in the Australian press that our government has no opinion on his visa
>request
>but merely agreed to a request by Britain to deny him entry.
>
Hiya Pardner,
This is MY impression as well
Love
Greig
--
"Caught Red Handed by the GRUPPEN FÐHRER"
Paul Linehan
Brendan Heading <bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk> wrote:
> Chad O'Reilly <ch...@powerup.com.au> writes
> >Actually, they are told alot. One of the main points in this case is the
> >term "PIRA" was used by the minister, a term only used by British Secret
> >Services..
> Sorry, but that is bollocks.
Sorry but it's not bollocks.
Check out the book "The Greening of the White House" by Conor Cleary
(well known and respected IT journo) about the ructions caused when
the US State Department issued a statement containg the acronym
"PIRA".
This was widely interpreted as the malign influence of the British on
the Department, widely regarded as just another branch of the British
embassy in Washington.
Paul...
> Brendan Heading - bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk
Chris Hedley
In article <347801c...@news1.tinet.ie>,
lin...@indigo.ie (Paul Linehan) writes:
> Brendan Heading <bre...@heading.demon.coDOTuk> wrote:
>> Sorry, but that is bollocks.
>
> Sorry but it's not bollocks.
Dunno what all this is about, but I just thought I'd say "hi" and "bollocks!"
Chris.
JC
Chad O'Reilly wrote in message <6513o0$lk7$1...@grissom.powerup.com.au>...
>>The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
>>in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
>
>
>term "PIRA" was used by the minister, a term only used by British Secret
>Services..
Thank you for pointing that out, I was loathe to do so myself for fear of
being called
a member of the IRA, again!
It's actually an out-dated term used to distinguish between the official IRA
and the Provos from about 20 years ago.
Nowdays it's used only by the British authorities and has NEVER been used in
Australia.
So you point is perfectly valid.
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
JC
Greigor wrote in message ...
>>I've got them both something they really need !
>>
>>A job !
>Hi Darlin'
Damn it, I told you not to tell anyone I was a woman ! Just because you
where
"sprung" by Cunningham does'nt mean you have to turn into a Supergrass.
>
>Get me one as well as the Irish Yanks are killing me with Kindness I canna
>drink anymore booze EVER.
There not a bad lot are they, I get a bit of fan mail from them. They like
to see it served up to the Pompous Poms !
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
Martin Hanna
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, JC wrote:
> Chad O'Reilly wrote in message <6513o0$lk7$1...@grissom.powerup.com.au>...
> >>The Australian authorities, from what I gather from recent activity, are
> >>in NO MOOD to be told what to do by the British government at all.
> >
> >
> >Actually, they are told alot. One of the main points in this case is the
> >term "PIRA" was used by the minister, a term only used by British Secret
> >Services..
>
> Thank you for pointing that out, I was loathe to do so myself for fear of
> being called
> a member of the IRA, again!
> It's actually an out-dated term used to distinguish between the official IRA
> and the Provos from about 20 years ago.
> Nowdays it's used only by the British authorities and has NEVER been used in
> Australia.
The term is used by many people, including nationalists.
> So you point is perfectly valid.
Not.
JC
Martin Hanna wrote in message ...
>> Chad O'Reilly wrote in message <6513o0$lk7$1...@grissom.powerup.com.au>...
>> Nowdays it's used only by the British authorities and has NEVER been used
in
>> Australia.
>
>The term is used by many people, including nationalists.
What would you know about Australia, the term is never used here,
and the inclusion of it in an Australian Government statement has been
taken by the Aussie Press as proof that there was input from your part
of the world (ie British Government), where you claim it's use is
commonplace.
>
>> So you point is perfectly valid.
>
>Not.
Yes it is,
and you'll have to come up with a better argument than your "Punch & Judy"
routine.
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
Martin Hanna
On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, JC wrote:
> Martin Hanna wrote in message ...
> >> Chad O'Reilly wrote in message <6513o0$lk7$1...@grissom.powerup.com.au>...
>
> >> Nowdays it's used only by the British authorities and has NEVER been used
> in
> >> Australia.
> >
> >The term is used by many people, including nationalists.
>
> What would you know about Australia, the term is never used here,
> and the inclusion of it in an Australian Government statement has been
> taken by the Aussie Press as proof that there was input from your part
> of the world (ie British Government), where you claim it's use is
> commonplace.
I have friends in Australia, who like me, arent worried about the term
PIRA. So to say it have never been used in Australia is absolutely
ridiculous. Have you searched through all known media and listened to all
speeches in Australia?
>
> >
> >> So you point is perfectly valid.
> >
> >Not.
>
> Yes it is,
> and you'll have to come up with a better argument than your "Punch & Judy"
> routine.
It's better than hyperbole.
Martin.
>
> --
> Regards,
> JC
> bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
>
>
>
>
JC
Martin Hanna wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, JC wrote:
>
>> Martin Hanna wrote in message ...
>> >> Chad O'Reilly wrote in message
<6513o0$lk7$1...@grissom.powerup.com.au>...
>>
>> >> Nowdays it's used only by the British authorities and has NEVER been
used
>> in
>> >> Australia.
>> >
>> >The term is used by many people, including nationalists.
>>
>> What would you know about Australia, the term is never used here,
>> and the inclusion of it in an Australian Government statement has been
>> taken by the Aussie Press as proof that there was input from your part
>> of the world (ie British Government), where you claim it's use is
>> commonplace.
>
>I have friends in Australia, who like me, arent worried about the term
>PIRA. So to say it have never been used in Australia is absolutely
>ridiculous. Have you searched through all known media and listened to all
>speeches in Australia?
I'm talking about Australians not ethnic minorities,
I'm sure the Iraqi community also understands Saddam's terminolgy more than
Australians do. The term PIRA is not used in Australia ! (ethnic media
excepted)
So again what does your point have to do with the price of eggs ?
--
Regards,
JC
bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
fani...@gmail.com
> For those unaware, this is how the Gerry Adams visa campaign has
> progressed,
> Australia, which took place at a press conference on 7 November,1996,
> Gerry
> Adams commenced an action in the Federal Court in Brisbane to overturn the
> Minister's decision. Gerry Adams was coming to Australia to publicise his
> autobiography "Before the Dawn". There was no opposition from ASIO, our
> was not of good character because of his continued association with the
> "PIRA".
> The use of the term "PIRA" generated controversy as the term is not used in
> Australia. The press cited it as evidence that Ruddock or his department
> copied the statement verbatim, in part at least, from a document issued by
> where told.
> become clear that the Ruddock had no basis on which to make his decision.
> any other documentation in his possession as he did not wish to
> voluntarily give up the documents. On 2 July, 1997, Justice Drummond ordered
> Ruddock to supply a list of documents in his possession. The decision like
> the one concerning Lorenzo Ervin has broken new ground in Immigration cases.
> The next battle is expected to be in the Federal Court where it will be up
> to the Judge to decide which documents will be released. The Australian
> government has been ordered to release the documents detailing the reasons
> they denied Mr Adams a visa.
> According to Michael Morgan, president of Australian Aid for Ireland, which
> is funding the legal proceedings "the hearing on December 3 is an attempt to
> force the Minister's hand".
> The hearing could have serious political implications for the embattled
> Howard government, which since it's election last year has become perceived
> as incompetent and not in control, as it comes in the middle of the election
> campaign to elect delegates to the Constitutional (Republic) convention. If
> the documents reveal a sycophancy towards Britain it could deliver a shot in
> the arm to the Australian Republican Movement who are already ahead in the
> polls.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> JC
> bigf...@connexus.apana.org.au
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