Idea - Information Sharing Agreements made easy

[Matt Stibbs]

Hello, I was wondering whether anyone has considered creating a tool for digitising (and significantly streamlining) the creation of the dreaded Information Sharing Agreements between different organisations / parties?

Whenever I hear stories of how many hours are dedicated to getting ISAs set up and approved in order to enable information sharing across a community, it always feels like there has got to be an easier way...

[Marcus Baw]

Hi Matt,

I don't know of anyone in the NHS Hack Day community doing this - BUT I am aware that there are moves to do something like this at HSCIC, work being led by Kemi Adenubi and Peter Short I believe. They are trying to develop a 'generic' or 'template' ISA as a starting point, one that would fulfil most requirements and would ony need tweaking for specific circumstances or particular uses between organisations.

The worry about the HSCIC approach is that although it would have the gravitas of a 'centrally issued' guideline it probably won't be agile enough to change with a very rapidly evolving health IT environment, and it might take a long time to be issued. It will also without doublt be published as a PDF large enough to have it's own gravity.

I guess what you are instead proposing is some kind of 'machine readable' ISA in which the 'rules' in an ISA document are converted into some kind of machine readable format, with a human interface allowing an organisation to easily set up what it is and isn't willing to share, and this be automatically interpretable by the software?

One person you might wish to discuss this with is Amir Mehrkar who is CCIO of the Hampshire Health Record, and has had a lot of experience of this kind of thing, plus he's been to NHS Hack Day and understands the ethos. Maybe you could connect with him (I've cc'd him in) and ask if he's up for it.

Marcus

On 26 August 2015 at 10:48, Matt Stibbs <matts...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, I was wondering whether anyone has considered creating a tool for digitising (and significantly streamlining) the creation of the dreaded Information Sharing Agreements between different organisations / parties?

Whenever I hear stories of how many hours are dedicated to getting ISAs set up and approved in order to enable information sharing across a community, it always feels like there has got to be an easier way...

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nhshackday" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nhshackday+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Ian McNicoll]

I have heard something like this talked about in a project bid I am involved with but while it might be do-able in and around GP systems interchange, it feels like it might get very complex and difficult in the wider health and social care community.

Ian

Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: i...@freshehr.com
twitter: @ianmcnicoll

Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mc...@openehr.org

Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL

[Jonathan Kay]

Excellent idea. Agree with Marcus.

1 Those long delays are partly about finding acceptable wording, but IMNSHO they are also caused by FUD and the time it takes for the participating organisation to learn how to agree. So the ideal software would help in finding those words but would also make it easier, quicker and cheaper to learn to trust each other and agree. 

2 From here on everything needs to include social care etc.

Some much less important points:

3 Worth looking at some computer interpretation stuff especially from the legal and contract worlds.

4 There’s some interesting experience in the Netherlands on online mediation/ arbitration systems that are much quicker to achieve resolution than traditional legal processes. 

Jonathan

[Anne Marie Cunningham]

Has Ripple OSI from Leeds done anything about this?
http://rippleosi.org/

AM

On 26/08/2015, Jonathan Kay <jonath...@ndcls.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Excellent idea. Agree with Marcus.
>
> 1 Those long delays are partly about finding acceptable wording, but IMNSHO
> they are also caused by FUD and the time it takes for the participating
> organisation to learn how to agree. So the ideal software would help in
> finding those words but would also make it easier, quicker and cheaper to
> learn to trust each other and agree.
>
> 2 From here on everything needs to include social care etc.
>
> Some much less important points:
>
> 3 Worth looking at some computer interpretation stuff especially from the
> legal and contract worlds.
>
> 4 There’s some interesting experience in the Netherlands on online
> mediation/ arbitration systems that are much quicker to achieve resolution
> than traditional legal processes.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> On 26 Aug 2015, at 12:21, Marcus Baw

> <marc...@gmail.com<mailto:marc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> I don't know of anyone in the NHS Hack Day community doing this - BUT I am
> aware that there are moves to do something like this at HSCIC, work being
> led by Kemi Adenubi and Peter Short I believe. They are trying to develop a
> 'generic' or 'template' ISA as a starting point, one that would fulfil most
> requirements and would ony need tweaking for specific circumstances or
> particular uses between organisations.
>
> The worry about the HSCIC approach is that although it would have the
> gravitas of a 'centrally issued' guideline it probably won't be agile enough
> to change with a very rapidly evolving health IT environment, and it might
> take a long time to be issued. It will also without doublt be published as a
> PDF large enough to have it's own gravity.
>
> I guess what you are instead proposing is some kind of 'machine readable'
> ISA in which the 'rules' in an ISA document are converted into some kind of
> machine readable format, with a human interface allowing an organisation to
> easily set up what it is and isn't willing to share, and this be
> automatically interpretable by the software?
>
> One person you might wish to discuss this with is Amir Mehrkar who is CCIO
> of the Hampshire Health Record, and has had a lot of experience of this kind
> of thing, plus he's been to NHS Hack Day and understands the ethos. Maybe
> you could connect with him (I've cc'd him in) and ask if he's up for it.
>
> Marcus
>
> On 26 August 2015 at 10:48, Matt Stibbs

> <matts...@gmail.com<mailto:matts...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hello, I was wondering whether anyone has considered creating a tool for
> digitising (and significantly streamlining) the creation of the dreaded
> Information Sharing Agreements between different organisations / parties?
>
> Whenever I hear stories of how many hours are dedicated to getting ISAs set
> up and approved in order to enable information sharing across a community,
> it always feels like there has got to be an easier way...
>
> --
>

[Matt Stibbs]

Looks like RippleOSI have done some work with the HSCIC IGA and NHS England on the agreements that Marcus mentioned.

I have to confess I hadn't worked through the idea in a great amount of detail, but I guess where I was kind of coming from was:

1. Not trying to take on the legal aspect of what an IGA has to be and contain at first;

2. Providing some kind of human interface which allows organisations to put in place an IGA between themselves and another organisation using either pre-defined templates, a pick and choose list of data types / workflows / sharing scenarios / permission models / consent models etc.;

3. From that produce a digital IGA which could initially then be printed out (ugh) and signed in ink etc.;

4. Further down the line signed digitally on behalf of the organisations and digital copies provided to the orgs involved for reference;

5. That all of this would be based on and in support of any existing IGA work (such as that by HSCIC / NHSE) in order to simplify the arbitration process as opposed to trying to come up with a different IGA model

I hadn't actually thought about the idea of taking those digital IGAs, making them machine readable, and using them to directly populate rules in systems although that's quite an interesting idea.... 

OpenIGA standard anyone? :)

Matt

On Wednesday, 26 August 2015 13:03:58 UTC+1, Anne Marie Cunningham wrote:

Has Ripple OSI from Leeds done anything about this?
http://rippleosi.org/

AM

On 26/08/2015, Jonathan Kay <jonath...@ndcls.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Excellent idea. Agree with Marcus.
>
> 1 Those long delays are partly about finding acceptable wording, but IMNSHO
> they are also caused by FUD and the time it takes for the participating
> organisation to learn how to agree. So the ideal software would help in
> finding those words but would also make it easier, quicker and cheaper to
> learn to trust each other and agree.
>
> 2 From here on everything needs to include social care etc.
>
> Some much less important points:
>
> 3 Worth looking at some computer interpretation stuff especially from the
> legal and contract worlds.
>
> 4 There’s some interesting experience in the Netherlands on online
> mediation/ arbitration systems that are much quicker to achieve resolution
> than traditional legal processes.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> On 26 Aug 2015, at 12:21, Marcus Baw

[Kenny Kennington]

In our CCG we have done a lot of work relating to ISA templates, and that covers all of our local healthcare community, including social care. We have also creared a South West Peninsula information sharing group, where these issues are discussed. I like the templates that Ripple have produced: 
http://rippleosi.org/documentation/

Our CCIO does want to move to something electronic and easier to track, so would be interested in any development. I was on a conference call with Kemi and Ming Tang last week regarding data sharing for commissioners, and any solution seems a long way off, and seems to be predicated toward a central repository. They are still at the proff of concept stage for data landing and identification/de-identification, so I dont think this will deliver any time soon.

Gary Kennington

IT Operations Manager - NHS South Devon and Torbay CCG

On Wednesday, 26 August 2015, Matt Stibbs <matts...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello, I was wondering whether anyone has considered creating a tool for digitising (and significantly streamlining) the creation of the dreaded Information Sharing Agreements between different organisations / parties?

Whenever I hear stories of how many hours are dedicated to getting ISAs set up and approved in order to enable information sharing across a community, it always feels like there has got to be an easier way...

--

[Anne Marie Cunningham]

I'm not quite sure why came across this again on a search! 

Are you aware of Waspi (Wales accord on sharing of personal information)? http://www.waspi.org/page.cfm?orgid=702&pid=69416. More recently since of my colleagues have been doing work on sharing between GP practices which doesn't generally fall under Waspi. 

AM

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nhshackday+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "nhshackday" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nhshackday+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.