A project to Map NHS community dentistry clinics (and/or other providers of community based services eg physio and OT

[Becky Wassall]

Patients who require care from community NHS dentistry have other profound health and care needs (learning disability, complex medical comorbidities, physical disabilities, dementia etc etc). This means they cannot receive care from a normal high street NHS dentist.

There is no easy way for patients, family carers or other health/care staff to find where the nearest community NHS dental clinic is? NHS choices have a web based look up service to find your nearest primary care dental clinic (but this does not include community dental clinics). This means patients with high dental needs (lots of dental disease and in pain) are not able to access care easily and quickly. They have dental pain/swollen face and in desperation (because they cannot find a NHS dentist able to treat them) they end up at their GP or at A&E.

Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
Bex

[David Miller]

Hi Becky, 

Sounds like you have a clear user need. (Hooray !)

The key question would be: Does the data exist?

(In the NHS, datasets you expect to exist sometimes don't in a way that's easy to locate and re-use.)

More generally "Postcode to thing lookup tool" is a very plausible hackday-size project (assuming the data exists or is scrape-able).

In terms of lasting impact, honestly I'd be very tempted to just lobby the relevant Choices team to add community dental services - suspect we could probably find a reasonable contact without too much hassle.

(That's not to say that you there's not plenty of learning through making in building a lookup tool at the hackday :D )

David

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[Marcus Baw]

This is a 'MySociety Of Health' type of project. It's something that Should Exist But Sadly Doesn't. There are quite a few other examples, some of which are hobby-horses I've been riding for some time (centiles, clinical calculations) and some aren't (GMC/NMC registers aaS)

It's something that a) the commercial sector would never have an incentive to produce and b) the NHS/HSCIC/DoH would either not see the need for (or would do it badly via Capita/ATOS, and at huge expense).

I really think there is an increasingly good argument for a MySociety-like organisation in UK Health, doing these kind of Infrastructure/API Hacks, in open source, and putting them out there. Maybe something to talk about at NHSHD, but I'm doing some research and talking to people who were involved in MySociety, to see how we get to doing it.

M

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[Vaibhav Joshi]

How about the CQC register? Definitely should have dentists and postcodes.

I don't know if has the granularity that Becky is seeking but maybe?
Location Type/Sector: "Primary Dental Care"
Provider Primary Inspection Category: Community Health

http://www.cqc.org.uk/content/how-get-and-re-use-cqc-information-and-data#directory

Best wishes,
VJ

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[Ian McNicoll]

I would be happy to help people work with ALLIS https://www.aliss.org/ to that end. Open source 'self-service' community-curation built and widely used in Scotland and indeed worked on by members of this group.

That would certainly work as an exposable API i.e source of existing data or as a means of curation (which is challenging but necessary).

Ian

Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
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Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnicoll@openehr.org

Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL

[Becky Wassall]

....BTW it was this blog that roused me into action but its been a bug bear of mine for a while. Important services that are really needed seem to be hidden from those who really need to know about them.

https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2015/09/01/registers-authoritative-lists-you-can-trust/

[Marcus Baw]

@Ian, this is exactly the problem we faced in the NHS Alpha/Beta project - there are no 'registers', or those that there are are not machine-consumable, or have poor data quality, or are inaccessible. We wanted to get GP information for a 'register with a GP' service, but we simply couldn't.

I understand GP Practice boundaries are shortly to be published by NHS Eng, but unless that data is made easily consumable, then nobody will be able to use it.

M

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[Wai Keong]

Please do this!!

Completely agree that exposing services as APIs and just not as an application makes perfect sense. This is the kind of common good stuff that the centre should be providing. 

Can we (actually not me!) take a dataset from HSCIC expose it as an API and then crest a proof of concept app to consume it??

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[Marcus Baw]

@wai. Yes, yes and yes!

Suggestions for datasets from the list? What is your favourite dataset that Should Be An API?

I already did an API around Obesity Prevalence Data, last year (we won a prize actually from NHS England) It needs refactoring but I plan to do this soon.

M

[Becky Wassall]

I have also previously been in contact with NHS Choices. They rightly highlighted  https://www.nhs.uk/Service-Search/performance/results?resultsViewId=1121 which does include some (but not all community dental providers) and it also doesn't allow someone (patient/carer/nurse/care staff) to quickly and easily distinguish between general dental providers and other more specialist dental providers (community based i.e. not hospital so still primary dental care).

On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 6:21:20 AM UTC+1, Becky Wassall wrote:

[Lucille Valentine]

I have wanted to represent community dental clinics on a map superimposed on their "patch" and including other dentists - so I headed over to the mapmakers at SHAPE https://shape.phe.org.uk/ 

Which supplies a lot of data - including maps of the dental practises and hospitals but the type of dental provision is not differentiated and there is no way of confirming whether the community dental clinics are included.

Shape say that they use ODS codes to map each dental practice.

The ODS team

maintains the ODS code list - this list gives no way to determine whether the practises are high street dentists or community dental clinics or...

they told me

"

the file egdpprac.zip is available at the following link on our webpage:

http://systems.hscic.gov.uk/data/ods/datadownloads/misc

 

The file description can be found to the left of the file itself, headed ‘General Dental Practices in England, Wales and IoM’.  This file contains names, address information and identifying codes for General Dental Practices in England, Wales and Isle of Man.  Please note that this file contains identifying codes for both NHS Dental Practices (that may also provide some private dental services alongside their NHS services) and identifying codes for Private Dental Practices that provide solely private services and hold no NHS patient list.  This is denoted by either a ‘D’ (NHS and Private Dental Practice) or ‘P’ (Private Only Dental Practice) within field 14 of the file.

 

Please also note how this dataset is maintained.  For NHS Dental Practices, the NHS Dental Services (NHS DS) have a live system (Payments Online – POL) where CCGs and LHBs update data on a regular basis (sometimes daily). The CCGs have to update this system when required, as it is the system that pays NHS dentists their monthly salaries and records how much work the dentists are required to do in the year.  NHS Dental Services send quarterly updates to the ODS team for publication.  ODS do not allocate any codes on POL to produce any codes for NHS Dental Practices or amend any details for NHS Dental Practices. 

 

The ODS team generate codes for private only Dental Practices and these are published within the same dataset (egdpprac.zip – denoted by a P within field 14).  Please be aware that the ODS do not actively seek this data for Private Dental Practices.  Private Dental Practices request a code from us (the ODS team), where they require a code for access into a particular IT system (E.g. the IG Toolkit), for reporting, etc.

[JCE H]

I do not believe the ODS egdprac download has community dental services. When the government began its dismantling of the NHS the PCT provider services (that usually included community dentistry) were the first victims. Some went into "private enterprise" and pretty much vanished off the map. Others were merged with the local acute and similarly vanished.

I guess you could download the archived provider site files for PCTs (5% codes) and cross reference postcodes found there with the current provider site codes (R%,T%) where the start dates is the day after the PCT vanished. You'd have to cross reference this with something to work out if they provided dental services, maybe Reference Costs or HES data from 2012/13 where treatment function begins 14%?

[Adrian Wilkins]

> More generally "Postcode to thing lookup tool" is a very plausible
> hackday-size project (assuming the data exists or is scrape-able).
>

Closest-postcode-to-thing, as long as you know the coordinates of
$thing, is eminently doable and there is free data from Ordnance Survey
that would support it (specifically, the coordinates of the postcodes).

Entity-responsible-for-postcode is a less certain relationship, sadly,
but I may have reason be working on such a thing at work (DWP) soon-ish.
But in any case, the data would have to come from the entity involved.

[Cam]

Hi Ian, I'm a GP and see a lot of lonely people who do not realise there is for example a coffee group down the road. I was interested in making a wiki-style site for patients and carers to find local services including third-sector resources, which can change rapidly. So I'm excited to see your site! Is there a way this could be spread beyond Scotland?

Camille

On Thursday, 15 September 2016 12:43:36 UTC+1, Ian McNicoll wrote:

I would be happy to help people work with ALLIS https://www.aliss.org/ to that end. Open source 'self-service' community-curation built and widely used in Scotland and indeed worked on by members of this group.

That would certainly work as an exposable API i.e source of existing data or as a means of curation (which is challenging but necessary).

Ian

Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: i...@freshehr.com
twitter: @ianmcnicoll

Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mc...@openehr.org

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[J Grant Forrest]

Hi Becky/Lucille

As you know, at the event I took off on a tangent and did some work around the BDA Special Care Case Mix model (attached).

I worked up a web-based form to capture the special needs data and rank/score the cases accordingly.

I've put a live demo up here.

The source code is on Github here.

I know you are discussing next steps with Lucille but I thought I'd post up what I had.

Cheers

Grant