media representations of the Internet / Keir Fiore & Jessica Woehl
Andy Borsa
Derek Rose wrote:
>
> Fiore, which you'll know if you've been reading the papers or watching the
> news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo" who
> lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on the
> lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
>
> Only they didn't meet on the Internet at all -- it was an America Online
> chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't make
> the distinction).
>
> Comments, anyone? What do people think of the way the Internet is
> generally represented in the mainstream media?
Bingo! It just makes me throw up my hands in frustration when the
"media" doesn't understand what they're reporting on. I pointed out to
my wife that there is no such thing as "internet chat rooms". There are
AOL chat rooms available only to AOL subscribers.
On the other hand, what can one expect from organizations that purport
to report news but are actually providing entertainment and titillation
because that's what the ratings require. Sadly, so do most of the
viewers/readers. Methinks this story gave them all the emotional jolt
they need to plod through another week of personal drudge.
The internet seems like it's growing into the favorite whipping boy of
the moral sentries and politicos who have solved all our other pressing
problems and now have time to seek the dragons they think are
responsible for breathing sleaze into our society. Perhaps they should
study themselves.
You sound like a good guy Derek. Find another business that won't strain
your senses of responsibility and credibility so much. Maybe the
priesthood.
> Just because of the way my paper works, I'm much more interested in
> speaking to New Hampshire residents than anyone else.
Why should anyone care what we cow chip chuckers think?
---------------------------------------------
Andy Borsa RF/Wireless Design Consultant
Real Address: an...@moose.mv.com
---------------------------------------------
Jack Follansbee
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:51:45 GMT, "Derek Rose"
<ihatej...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Hello there,
>
>I'm a correspondent for The Union Leader/ NH Sunday News, researching a
>possible story about media representations and mis-represenations of the
>Interent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and Jessica
>Woehl.
Whoa, media feeding frenzy! The gene pool needs a little chlorine.
>Fiore, which you'll know if you've been reading the papers or watching the
>news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo" who
>lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on the
>lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
An obviously maladjusted individual.
>Only they didn't meet on the Internet at all -- it was an America Online
>chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't make
>the distinction).
This is the first time I have heard this. If it is, in fact, true then
the media have been dishonest in the extreme (surprise!). Clearly
their bias' coming into play - They've been telling everyone for so
long that the internet is full of pervs and weirdos that they've
bought into their own story and lost the ability to separate facts
from their own fiction.
>Comments, anyone? What do people think of the way the Internet is
>generally represented in the mainstream media?
It sucks. Oh, that's not very publishable, now is it? How about this:
The media tends to play up to the strongest motivators of our species,
such as fear and sex. This particular incident gives them a handle on
both, and they have played both cards masterfully. It frankly disgusts
me. If, in fact, they actually met through AOL, instead of the
internet as represented in the news reports, then the media should be
held responsible for their dishonesty.
>Just because of the way my paper works, I'm much more interested in
>speaking to New Hampshire residents than anyone else.
>
>I also normally cover regional issues dealing with Manchester's suburbs
>(which we consider to be Weare, Dunbarton, Goffstown, New Boston, Bedford,
>Merrimack, Litchfield, Londonderry, Derry, Chester, Auburn, Candia,
>Hooksett, Allenstown, Pembroke) and am always on the lookout for
>story ideas.
Well, Derek, here's an idea; instead of showing up here out of the
blue in response to a particular news item and trolling for reactions,
become a regular here and participate. One thing you'll find in the
internet community at large is a rejection of people whose sole
purpose it to *use* the medium to their own ends, without regard to
the community of current users and their conventions.
Jack
Paul Barton
Andy Borsa wrote:
> Bingo! It just makes me throw up my hands in frustration when the
> "media" doesn't understand what they're reporting on. I pointed out to
> my wife that there is no such thing as "internet chat rooms". There are
> AOL chat rooms available only to AOL subscribers.
>
I suppose that they aren't called "chat rooms" but the IRC has similar
but they don't mix words about some of their content. A real time "chat
room" by any other name still works the same..on AOL or the net.
Richard
Derek Rose wrote:
>
> Hello there,
>
> I'm a correspondent for The Union Leader/ NH Sunday News, researching a
> possible story about media representations and mis-represenations of the
> Interent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and Jessica
> Woehl.
>
> news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo" who
> lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on the
> lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
>
> chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't make
> the distinction).
>
> generally represented in the mainstream media?
>
> speaking to New Hampshire residents than anyone else.
>
> I also normally cover regional issues dealing with Manchester's suburbs
> (which we consider to be Weare, Dunbarton, Goffstown, New Boston, Bedford,
> Merrimack, Litchfield, Londonderry, Derry, Chester, Auburn, Candia,
> Hooksett, Allenstown, Pembroke)
> and am always on the lookout for story ideas.
>
> posting. Thanks.
> -derek
> -------------
> Derek Rose
> rosed[at]world.std.com
My personal feeling is that like most news, sensationalism was the top
concern of the news media rather than accuracy. As you point out it was
not the "net" proper but AOL where these two started to chat (the
distinction is becoming blurred). I have not seen or heard anything
about this story to support using the word "lured" either. The young
girl involved here strikes me as a kid dying to bust out one way or the
other. She seems not the least bit ashamed of her behavior in any of the
live interviews I've seen.
The Internet is the greatest communication media since the telegraph.
However, because many people still don't use or understand it yet it is
a dark and mysterious thing. The internet has been around for sharing
info for a long time but has only recently come into vogue for the
masses by the advent of the "web" which any idiot can now gain access
to. Case in point the massive mis-use now by commercial advertisers
(Spammers).
The fact that the two people involved started their interaction in
cyberspace is coincidental to the story (a very common and old one). Had
they not met on the "net" they would have found someone like each other
locally or through some other media like the "personals" in the papers
and magazines.
Because of the state of news reporting I have given up reading
newspapers long ago. I therefore know little of the quality of the Union
Leader except the Biases I hear about locally but it does seem that
maybe there is hope since you are obviously making an attempt, with your
post, at getting the real slant on this issue.
Just one person's view. (although shared by everyone I've talked to)
--
^^^^^
( o o )
=========o000===(_)===000o=========
http://www.concentric.net/~davicomp
Derek Rose
Jack Follansbee <ja...@threeindians.com.spam> wrote in article
<335ce781...@news.mv.net>...
> On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:51:45 GMT, "Derek Rose"
> <ihatej...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >Fiore, which you'll know if you've been reading the papers or watching
the
> >news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo"
who
> >lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on
the
> >lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
>
> An obviously maladjusted individual.
>
> >Only they didn't meet on the Internet at all -- it was an America Online
> >chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't
make
> >the distinction).
>
> This is the first time I have heard this. If it is, in fact, true
It is true. In fairness to the competition, that, uh, large paper out of
Boston has made the distinction.
> then
> the media have been dishonest in the extreme (surprise!).
well... I worked a little on this story last Thursday, when they were
found. (I didn't write the story though).
And I'm not trying to make excuses -- obviously, anytime the media gets a
story wrong, it is a sign we should have gone the extra step, gotten
another source, checked one more fact, etc. But "dishonesty in the
extreme"? ... well, here are a few more facts.
* The Woehl family, as I said, didn't make the distinction between the
Internet and AOL. ... I asked Jessica's 18-year-old brother, Josh, outside
the police station Thursday that since his sister and Fiore met in an AOL
chat room, didn't they really meet on AOL and not the Internet? He replied
that AOL is part of the Internet, or something like that. Apparently,
that's the same line the family has told
* I have a press release here issued jointly by the U.S. Attorney's office,
the Boston FBI, and the Salem police department announcing Jessica had been
found. It says, "The sexual assault charges [against Fiore] stemmed from
the relationship that FIORE and Jessica Lynn Woehl developed as a result of
meeting over the Internet sometime in early February 1997."
* and even Fiore's attorney didn't make the distinction. The Boston Globe
reported David Wolowitz as saying, "It would not have been on the `Maury
Povich Show' or `America's Most Wanted' [I don't think it was] if it
weren't for the Internet. There is a fear of the Internet being somehow a
way to reach vulnerable children when in reality, there are many ways to
reach vulnerable children."
(on the other hand, I did try to explain the difference to the reporter
writing the story, but I wasn't listened to).
Soooo... well, those are the facts; I'll let you make up your own mind.
derek
Bill Limoges
Jack Follansbee <ja...@threeindians.com.spam> wrote in article
<335ce781...@news.mv.net>...
> On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:51:45 GMT, "Derek Rose"
> <ihatej...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >Hello there,
> >
> >I'm a correspondent for The Union Leader/ NH Sunday News, researching a
> >possible story about media representations and mis-represenations of the
> >Interent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and
Jessica
> >Woehl.
>
> Whoa, media feeding frenzy! The gene pool needs a little chlorine.
>
> >Fiore, which you'll know if you've been reading the papers or watching
the
> >news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo"
who
> >lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on
the
> >lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
>
> An obviously maladjusted individual.
Quite an (o) if you ask me.
>
> >Only they didn't meet on the Internet at all -- it was an America Online
> >chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't
make
> >the distinction).
And the press didn't correct them.
>
> This is the first time I have heard this. If it is, in fact, true then
> the media have been dishonest in the extreme (surprise!). Clearly
> their bias' coming into play - They've been telling everyone for so
> long that the internet is full of pervs and weirdos that they've
> bought into their own story and lost the ability to separate facts
> from their own fiction.
>
The media, (tv, radio, and print), I think, is being very hypocritical when
it comes to the internet. I wonder if this is because sooner or later, it
is going to cause severe problems to their income when _everyone_ gets
connected. With the internet, you can have an interactive exchange of
ideas, such as we are having now, unlike the tube, for instance, where some
bubble-head tells you what is happening, and you cannot comment about it in
public, such as we are doing now. The paradigm of public information is
changing for
the better, and the media is fighting it tooth and nail, and this is the
only way they know how, with typical distortions, and half truths.
> >Comments, anyone? What do people think of the way the Internet is
> >generally represented in the mainstream media?
see above ^
> >Just because of the way my paper works, I'm much more interested in
> >speaking to New Hampshire residents than anyone else.
> >
> >I also normally cover regional issues dealing with Manchester's suburbs
> >(which we consider to be Weare, Dunbarton, Goffstown, New Boston,
Bedford,
> >Merrimack, Litchfield, Londonderry, Derry, Chester, Auburn, Candia,
> >Hooksett, Allenstown, Pembroke) and am always on the lookout for
> >story ideas.
Jeeezzzz.....Don't you guys have any coverage of Metropolitan Claremont ???
Every time we want a mention in the paper we have to shoot someone ;-)
>
> Well, Derek, here's an idea; instead of showing up here out of the
> blue in response to a particular news item and trolling for reactions,
> become a regular here and participate.
Heah heah.....I think that that is an outstanding idea !
One thing you'll find in the
> internet community at large is a rejection of people whose sole
> purpose it to *use* the medium to their own ends, without regard to
> the community of current users and their conventions.
That's because if they step out of line too far, they get their tails
flamed off !!!
Bill Limoges
shane beard
Derek Rose wrote:
>
> Hello there,
>
> I'm a correspondent for The Union Leader/ NH Sunday News, researching a
> possible story about media representations and mis-represenations of the
> Interent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and Jessica
> Woehl.
>
> news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo" who
> lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on the
> lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
>
> chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't make
> the distinction).
>
> generally represented in the mainstream media?
>
> speaking to New Hampshire residents than anyone else.
>
> I also normally cover regional issues dealing with Manchester's suburbs
> (which we consider to be Weare, Dunbarton, Goffstown, New Boston, Bedford,
> Merrimack, Litchfield, Londonderry, Derry, Chester, Auburn, Candia,
> Hooksett, Allenstown, Pembroke)
> and am always on the lookout for story ideas.
>
> posting. Thanks.
> -derek
> -------------
> Derek Rose
> rosed[at]world.std.com
Isn't it peculiar how all the tabloids, newsmedia, and talkshows (the
distiction between these seems to fade more and more every day)all tell
us about how bad the Internet is for our children while they are
showing these same children nothing but prepackaged trash between
commercial advertisements! The internet is like anything else you can
abuse it or you can use it. Call me a conspiracy theorist but it seems
to me that the Government and the media(in general) are scratching each
others back to put controls on the last vestige of free speech! As far
as the Fiore/Woehl thing goes, how bumbed out do you suppose the
newsmedia was that she went willingly and hung around watching tv all
day while they were gone!
p.s. I.M.H.O., Your paper is the most one-sided piece of gop propaganda
that I have ever seen in my life, but I still think you should have
every right to print what you do.
--
Some people say I'm halfway here, some people say I'm halfway GONE!!!
JB
HOME: WORK
mailto:s_b...@conknet.com mailto:shb...@nebs.com
homepage(under construction!)
http://www.conknet.com/~s_beard/
Peter D. Hipson
On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:51:45 GMT, "Derek Rose"
>Hello there,
>
>I'm a correspondent for The Union Leader/ NH Sunday News, researching a
>possible story about media representations and mis-represenations of the
>Interent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and Jessica
>Woehl.
>
>Fiore, which you'll know if you've been reading the papers or watching the
>news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo" who
>lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on the
>lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
If you are looking for bias, it is in your own message. You state that
the male 'lured 13-year-old Jessica' however I do not believe that the
male has had the benefit of a trial at this point. I'd suggest your
statement paints a picture which may not be accurate. (No, I'm not
sticking up for the jerk, but I don't like seeing anyone tried in the
press, by the press).
>
>Only they didn't meet on the Internet at all -- it was an America Online
>chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't make
>the distinction).
>
>Comments, anyone? What do people think of the way the Internet is
>generally represented in the mainstream media?
>
>Just because of the way my paper works, I'm much more interested in
>speaking to New Hampshire residents than anyone else.
>
>I also normally cover regional issues dealing with Manchester's suburbs
>(which we consider to be Weare, Dunbarton, Goffstown, New Boston, Bedford,
>Merrimack, Litchfield, Londonderry, Derry, Chester, Auburn, Candia,
>Hooksett, Allenstown, Pembroke)
>and am always on the lookout for story ideas.
>
>Contact me at the (corrected) address below; don't hit reply to this
>posting. Thanks.
>-derek
>-------------
>Derek Rose
>rosed[at]world.std.com
Peter D. Hipson
(ClubWin/ClubIE)
All email replies to phi...@acm.org
as email sent to ma...@darkstar.mv.com will
checked monthly.
Barry W. Colebank
Derek Rose <ihatej...@nospam.com> wrote in article
<01bc4e95$d8bd27a0$100616cf@rosecenter1>...
> Hello there,
>
> I'm a correspondent for The Union Leader/ NH Sunday News, researching a
> possible story about media representations and mis-represenations of the
> Interent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and Jessica
> Woehl.
> Comments, anyone? What do people think of the way the Internet is
> generally represented in the mainstream media?
The Fiore/Woehl story is one more example of someone not really knowing
what there talking about rushing to get something good on the 5:00 news.
The general public, and the general media know little about what the
Internet really is.
The "mainstream" will never understand the full value and use of the
"Interent" until they are willing to spend some time using it, not just the
glitzy Web pages, but all the rest, too. Newsgroups like this one are true
democracy (well...maybe a little socialism.....everyone shares, no one gets
"more"......). If you want an opinion on something, just ask it here.
There are not too many shy people.
But the Internet is also a vast source of information in a world where some
elements don't seem to want you to know. Sometimes I think those who make
big bucks controlling our information sources (TV, radio, and yes,
sometimes the mainstream newspapers) are afraid that we are finding the
"real" truth somewhere else and we may not need them anymore. After all,
anybody can print a newspaper just like anyone can write on the Internet.
If a person uses only half of his grey matter and truely weeds out the
B---S--- from the rest, they can learn more, live better, and actually be a
more productive person in our society (hey...you regulars quit laughing!).
I know I was recently diagnosed with Type II diabetes and I found a
Newsgroup that has help me learn how to control the physical challenges of
the problem, and also how to handle the emotional side that comes with
realizing what your up against.
So Derek, spend a little time on the "true" Internet and then you can write
your story from first hand experience.
--
Barry W. Colebank
North Country Information Services
-------------------------------------------------------
Authorized Dealer for The Connecticut River Network
Providing Internet Access to Vt and NH
Derek Rose
Peter D. Hipson <ma...@darkstar.mv.com> wrote in article
<335d39f5....@news-pnh.mv.net>...
> On Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:51:45 GMT, "Derek Rose"
> <ihatej...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >Fiore, which you'll know if you've been reading the papers or watching
the
> >news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo"
who
> >lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on
the
> >lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
>
> If you are looking for bias, it is in your own message. You state that
> the male 'lured 13-year-old Jessica' however I do not believe that the
> male has had the benefit of a trial at this point. I'd suggest your
> statement paints a picture which may not be accurate. (No, I'm not
> sticking up for the jerk, but I don't like seeing anyone tried in the
> press, by the press).
Ouch! But he's not going on trial for "luring," which isn't a crime here.
It's the sex part that will be up for a court decide.
Someone else questioned the media's use of the word "lured," so I looked it
up.
(Here's the post where they did:
> From: Richard <davi...@concentric.net>
>I have not seen or heard anything
> about this story to support using the word "lured" either. The young
> girl involved here strikes me as a kid dying to bust out one way or the
> other. She seems not the least bit ashamed of her behavior in any of the
> live interviews I've seen.
)
It's defined by the American Heritage College Dictionary as "To attract by
wiles or temptation; entice." ... "Entice" is defined as "To attract by
arousing hope or desire; lure." I guess that's not all that much help...
but, I don't know, showering a 13-year-old girl with presents like a
cell-phone, pager, flowers and a teddy bear and then running off with her
sounds kinda like luring to me.
shane beard
Bill Limoges wrote:
>
> Jack Follansbee <ja...@threeindians.com.spam> wrote in article
> > >
> > >I'm a correspondent for The Union Leader/ NH Sunday News, researching a
> > >possible story about media representations and mis-represenations of the
> > >Interent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and
> Jessica
> > >Woehl.
> >
> >
> the
> > >news at all in the past few days, is the 22-year-old "Internet Romeo"
> who
> > >lured 13-year-old Jessica away from her Nashua home, spent 24 days on
> the
> > >lam with her, and now faces statutory rape charges.
> >
>
> Quite an (o) if you ask me.
> >
> > >chat room. (Both the Woehl family and police press releases didn't
> make
> > >the distinction).
>
> >
> > This is the first time I have heard this. If it is, in fact, true then
> > the media have been dishonest in the extreme (surprise!). Clearly
> > their bias' coming into play - They've been telling everyone for so
> > long that the internet is full of pervs and weirdos that they've
> > bought into their own story and lost the ability to separate facts
> > from their own fiction.
> >
> The media, (tv, radio, and print), I think, is being very hypocritical when
> it comes to the internet. I wonder if this is because sooner or later, it
> is going to cause severe problems to their income when _everyone_ gets
> connected. With the internet, you can have an interactive exchange of
> ideas, such as we are having now, unlike the tube, for instance, where some
> bubble-head tells you what is happening, and you cannot comment about it in
> public, such as we are doing now. The paradigm of public information is
> changing for
> the better, and the media is fighting it tooth and nail, and this is the
> only way they know how, with typical distortions, and half truths.
> > >generally represented in the mainstream media?
>
>
>
> > >Just because of the way my paper works, I'm much more interested in
> > >speaking to New Hampshire residents than anyone else.
> > >
> > >I also normally cover regional issues dealing with Manchester's suburbs
> > >(which we consider to be Weare, Dunbarton, Goffstown, New Boston,
> Bedford,
> > >Merrimack, Litchfield, Londonderry, Derry, Chester, Auburn, Candia,
> > >Hooksett, Allenstown, Pembroke) and am always on the lookout for
> > >story ideas.
>
> Every time we want a mention in the paper we have to shoot someone ;-)
> >
> > Well, Derek, here's an idea; instead of showing up here out of the
> > blue in response to a particular news item and trolling for reactions,
> > become a regular here and participate.
>
> Heah heah.....I think that that is an outstanding idea !
>
> One thing you'll find in the
> > internet community at large is a rejection of people whose sole
> > purpose it to *use* the medium to their own ends, without regard to
> > the community of current users and their conventions.
>
> That's because if they step out of line too far, they get their tails
> flamed off !!!
>
> Bill Limoges
WOW, will wonders never cease. Could it be that you and I actually
almost agree on something Bill? I will go one step further and say that
along with t.v., radio, and print, our Government would like to keep
this "net" thing under its collective paws.
Bill Limoges
Richard <davi...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<335D1B...@concentric.net>...
> Derek Rose wrote:
> > <snipski>
>
>
>
about this story to support using the word "lured" either. The young
> girl involved here strikes me as a kid dying to bust out one way or the
> other. She seems not the least bit ashamed of her behavior in any of the
> live interviews I've seen.
Yes, that is a true and disturbing fact. The mother didn't seem to awful
upset ( at least not from what I saw) either. If it were my child, that
creep would have been toast when they found him. I smell something fishy
here. Sick sick sick.
>
>
> The Internet is the greatest communication media since the telegraph.
> However, because many people still don't use or understand it yet it is
> a dark and mysterious thing.
The mysterious thing is why the news media didn't unmystify it before
shooting off at their ( mostly ) moronic mouths.
> masses by the advent of the "web" which any idiot can now gain access
( just wait until webtv catches on)
> The fact that the two people involved started their interaction in
> cyberspace is coincidental to the story (a very common and old one). Had
> they not met on the "net" they would have found someone like each other
> locally or through some other media like the "personals" in the papers
> and magazines.
Correct. It sounds like this girl just wanted to get away from her world.
>
Boy1e
>>* The Woehl family, as I said, didn't make the distinction between the
Internet and AOL. ... I asked Jessica's 18-year-old brother, Josh, outside
the police station Thursday that since his sister and Fiore met in an AOL
chat room, didn't they really meet on AOL and not the Internet? He replied
that AOL is part of the Internet, or something like that. Apparently,
that's the same line the family has told <<
Well, let me give my two cents. And let me ask that it not be for
publication. (Not that anyone would publish it in the Union-Leader anyhow;
I haven't lived in New Hampshire in 10 years and I'm a newspaper editor
myself...)
The Internet is a worldwide network of about 50 million computers -- most
of which are also connected via a smaller network. I would count each
computer that adds to, or draws information from the other computers of
the network a part of that network. AOL, as my post demonstrates, does
just that, even though it's a network in and of itself.
To conclude otherwise is to define the Internet as the connections between
the computers without including the computers themselves. That's kind of
silly.
I would therefore say that "meeting in an Internet chatroom" is accurate,
but imprecise. A better way to phrase it would be to say they met through
an AOL chatroom, or through the chatroom of an Internet Service Provider.
Todd
P.S. Wildly inaccurate? Come now, Andy. You're not usually so quick to
judge. 8*)
WLP
gmc...@ultranet.com (Gary McGath) posted:
訊his past weekend, a friend showed me a spoof article about the dangers
of
郡aper. It denounced the dire evils for which paper can be used --
ransom
迸otes are written on it, false information can be spread with it, and
so
邕n. The point was to draw attention to the fact that the medium -- the
衰nternet -- gets the blame for the content.
Geez Gary, you fogot to mention forest fires! That's right, fires.
Newspapers can be used to start forest fires. Only YOU can prevent them.
I also heard the ink used in the UL was particularly flammable. The
latter may only be a rumor, though.
WLP
<w...@pca.mv.com>
WLP
"Derek Rose" <ihatej...@nospam.com> posted:
衰nterent. My jumping off point is the story of the Keir Fiore and
Jessica
訖oehl.
Once upon a time, when I was a young & foolish teenager, as opposed to
my current status as an old & foolish curmudgeon, I drove two friends of
mine to the "T" in West Roxbury [MA] from a neighboring town. One friend
was male, the other female, both about 16, +/-, and both with very
healthy teenage hormones. They shacked up for a couple of days, I
suspect, although I never asked the question directly, it being pretty
obvious what was up from my view [being their personal chauffeur] of the
rear seat on the way down, so to speak.
After about a day, my male friend's parents figured out I was the last
person to see them. I was admonished as to the seriousness of what I had
done. I received a verbal tongue lashing from my friend's mother and my
Mom, undoubtedly well deserved. My memory is hazy, but I think the
police may have given me a lecture or two, which was nothing compared to
The Wrath of Moms. No handcuffs were involved, although I certainly
can't speak for the teenagers in love. I doubt we were that
sophisticated about such things in the 50s. At least I don't remember
any golden oldies describing same.
The two lustbirds eventually returned [even teenagers have their
limits], got soundly lectured, grounded forever, separated for all
eternity by their respective vengeful parents and that was the end of
it. No pregnancy, no AIDS, no sexually transmitted diseases. And, I
suspect, even no condoms. [There may have been a hickey or two involved;
I disremember] Life was good. I went to college, learned how little I
really knew about anything and grew up, at least physically. The movie
has yet to be made, although American Graffiti captured the essence.
Today, the two would meet over The Internet [even though they were next
door neighbors], exchange 4 letter words not yet invented, have
simulated sex multiple times via The 'Net and become infected with a
computer virus. The Internet would be defiled & vilified in every
printed rag nationally and globally, then soundly trashed in the media
as the catalyst to this national tragedy. NIH would be given a
multibillion dollar grant to seek and destroy said virus, increasing the
national debt.
I'd be sent up the river for 10-20 for supplying the hardware and
enabling software, complete with virus. My picture would be on national
TV [I pity the people seeing that, although I was pretty proud of my
pompadour, long since vanished], I'd be the subject of a nationwide FBI
manhunt, CIA intelligence [oxymoron?], do the talk show circuit, be on
the cover of TIME, do a guest spot on Seinfeld, write a book, retain
rights to the screenplay and become rich. Then go on Politically
Incorrect, not that there's anything wrong with that, start my own HMO
dealing only with sexually transmitted computer viruses and make $94M
upon its sale. Ah, life is *so* much better today...
WLP
<w...@pca.mv.com>
Jack Follansbee
On 23 Apr 1997 15:35:44 GMT, bo...@aol.com (Boy1e) wrote:
>Well, let me give my two cents. And let me ask that it not be for
>publication. (Not that anyone would publish it in the Union-Leader anyhow;
>I haven't lived in New Hampshire in 10 years and I'm a newspaper editor
>myself...)
>
>The Internet is a worldwide network of about 50 million computers -- most
>of which are also connected via a smaller network. I would count each
>computer that adds to, or draws information from the other computers of
>the network a part of that network. AOL, as my post demonstrates, does
>just that, even though it's a network in and of itself.
We were talking specifically about the chatrooms, not the computers
themselves. And the chatroom computers are not on the internet anyway.
Your point is specious.
>To conclude otherwise is to define the Internet as the connections between
>the computers without including the computers themselves. That's kind of
>silly.
>
>I would therefore say that "meeting in an Internet chatroom" is accurate,
>but imprecise. A better way to phrase it would be to say they met through
>an AOL chatroom, or through the chatroom of an Internet Service Provider.
>
>Todd
>
>P.S. Wildly inaccurate? Come now, Andy. You're not usually so quick to
>judge. 8*)
If it is in an area that cannot be accessed by other machines on the
internet (and that is the case here), then it's not an internet
resource and should not be considered as such.
AOL chat rooms can ONLY be accessed by AOL customers dialed into an
AOL server. They are NOT ON THE INTERNET!
Thank you, I feel better now that I've vented.
jack
Joel B Levin
In <gmcgath-ya0240800...@news.ma.ultranet.com>,
gmc...@ultranet.com (Gary McGath) wrote:
:In article <3373558d...@news.mv.net>, Ja...@threeindians.ScPoAmM wrote:
:>AOL chat rooms can ONLY be accessed by AOL customers dialed into an
:>AOL server. They are NOT ON THE INTERNET!
:>
:>Thank you, I feel better now that I've vented.
:Or for a more personal example, each of our computers is "on the Internet."
:But I think we'd object to reporters saying that everything that we do with
:our computers is done "on the Internet."
It also doesn't hurt to remember that AOL and its chat rooms existed well
before AOL was on the internet. (Or at least well before they made internet
access available to their customers.)
/J
--
Nets: le...@bbn.com | "GO TO JAIL. Go directly to jail. Do not pass
or j...@levin.mv.com| Go. Do not collect $200."
POTS: (617)873-3463 |
ARS: KD1ON | -- Parker Brothers
Derek Rose
Actually, Jack, I think you're being widely
Jack Follansbee <ja...@threeindians.ScPoAmM> wrote in article
<3373558d...@news.mv.net>...
> On 23 Apr 1997 15:35:44 GMT, bo...@aol.com (Todd) wrote:
> >The Internet is a worldwide network of about 50 million computers --
most
> >of which are also connected via a smaller network. I would count each
> >computer that adds to, or draws information from the other computers of
> >the network a part of that network. AOL, as my post demonstrates, does
> >just that, even though it's a network in and of itself.
...
> >I would therefore say that "meeting in an Internet chatroom" is
accurate,
> >but imprecise. A better way to phrase it would be to say they met
through
> >an AOL chatroom, or through the chatroom of an Internet Service
Provider.
....
> If it is in an area that cannot be accessed by other machines on the
> internet (and that is the case here), then it's not an internet
> resource and should not be considered as such.
>
> AOL chat rooms can ONLY be accessed by AOL customers dialed into an
> AOL server. They are NOT ON THE INTERNET!
>
Sorry, Jack, but you're the one being widely inaccurate here. I got into
some AOL chatrooms through the Internet the other day, searching for
information on Kier Fiore. (you can look up his usernames, if you're on
AOL: KER8417, KEIR22, KF8417, and K13912).
The AOL software gives you two ways to access AOL. You can either call a
AOL server with your modem, or -- if you're connected to the Internet --
you can use TCP/IP protocols to access the service. You beat the busy
signals, and AOL even offers a discounted rate for people who have their
own ISP and aren't going to call their modems.
I was thinking about Todd's post the other day, and maybe he's right.
We tend to think of AOL as a separate network, but isn't that only because
it's so large? I mean, take the WELL. As I understand it, you can get into
the WELL from one of their modems, or through the Internet's telnet. Does
that mean the WELL isn't "on the Internet"?
-derek
Jack Follansbee
>Sorry, Jack, but you're the one being widely inaccurate here. I got into
>some AOL chatrooms through the Internet the other day, searching for
>information on Kier Fiore. (you can look up his usernames, if you're on
>AOL: KER8417, KEIR22, KF8417, and K13912).
>
>The AOL software gives you two ways to access AOL. You can either call a
>AOL server with your modem, or -- if you're connected to the Internet --
>you can use TCP/IP protocols to access the service. You beat the busy
>signals, and AOL even offers a discounted rate for people who have their
>own ISP and aren't going to call their modems.
>
>I was thinking about Todd's post the other day, and maybe he's right.
>
>We tend to think of AOL as a separate network, but isn't that only because
>it's so large? I mean, take the WELL. As I understand it, you can get into
>the WELL from one of their modems, or through the Internet's telnet. Does
>that mean the WELL isn't "on the Internet"?
Let's take another swing at this...
I am not a customer of AOL and I can't access their chatrooms. AOL's
chatrooms are not a public resource on the internet. This is, I
believe, what defines a resource on the internet - public
accessibility.
I can access the hard drive on my Novell server at work, but that
doesn't mean it's "on the internet". Only those with appropriate
passwords/usernames can access it. It is a private resource,
regardless of the number of people that are authorised to access it.
just like the AOL chatrooms.
I can get to the ocean by travelling the highway, does that mean the
ocean is "on the highway"?
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Jack
Derek Rose
So the Wall Street Journal's web site isn't "on the Internet," because you
need to sign up and pay money to get in?
Sounds kinda counter-intuitive to me.
And allow me a counter-example. The Moose Lodge in Exampleville is on the
edge of Route 128. But you need to be a member to get in. Does that mean
the lodge isn't "on the highway?"
> I can access the hard drive on my Novell server at work, but that
> doesn't mean it's "on the internet". Only those with appropriate
> passwords/usernames can access it. It is a private resource,
> regardless of the number of people that are authorised to access it.
> just like the AOL chatrooms.
>
> I can get to the ocean by travelling the highway, does that mean the
> ocean is "on the highway"?
>
> Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Who's the one being obtuse here? You're changing what we are arguing about.
Derek Rose
Gary McGath <gmc...@ultranet.com> wrote in article
<gmcgath-ya0240800...@news.ma.ultranet.com>...
> In article <01bc5369$b3f54b40$250a16cf@rosecenter1>, "Derek Rose"
> <ihatej...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >And allow me a counter-example. The Moose Lodge in Exampleville is on
the
> >edge of Route 128. But you need to be a member to get in. Does that mean
> >the lodge isn't "on the highway?"
>
> In the context under discussion, yes. If a crime took place inside the
> Moose Lodge, and the news said that it happened "on the highway," that
> would be misleading.
But there's no analygous situation for the Internet here. We say something
is "on the Internet" when it's connected to a bunch of other computers that
use certain agreed-upon protocols to communicate. (At least, that's about
how I use the word. Does someone here have a better definition?)
But "Internet" is one of those words like "society" -- it's just a name we
give to a concept; it's not something we can see and touch.
>
> --
> Gary McGath gmc...@ultranet.com
> http://www.ultranet.com/~gmcgath
>
Derek
Derek Rose
That's a pretty good reply. Of course, we really have no idea how either
party connected to AOL, and I still think it might be correct in a
technical sense. But yes, there's no question it was misleading.
-derek
Joel B Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote in article
<336c7691...@news-lnh.mv.net>...
> AOL chat rooms were initially on a large computer system (yes, a network
if
> you will) that was not connected to the internet (at least in a way the
> average user could find it) - except for e-mail gateways, it was its own
> separate world. Then AOL added internet access -- the web, primarily,
and
> usenet -- for its users, and now a member can access its services from
the
> internet. But to AOL, and mostly to the internet at large, AOL is it's
own
> big service, with access to "the internet" an added feature on the side.
>