Spanking children is legal but no wooden paddles please!
The King
old with a wooden paddle, (as parents/teachers used to do commonly
years ago).
Just wanted to throw this out for discussion. Although we don't know
how unruly the child may be or on the other hand, how strict the parent.
What forms of punishment are ok? Is the wooden paddle a good method
for slightly older kids, the belt, go to your room, ignoring them, etc...
Mother Guilty of Spanking 11/29/00 (VOCM News)
An Ontario woman has been found guilty of assault for spanking her
four-year-old son with a stick. Forty-year-old Sara Klassen, a mother of
five, paddled her son for not doing homework while being home schooled. Her
17-year-old daughter called in the incident which occurred in 1999 because
she was tired of corporal punishment in her home. Klassen received a
conditional discharge so she won't have a criminal record if she doesn't
break her probation. Physical punishment by a parent is legal under the
Criminal Code as long as it's corrective and reasonable but it doesn't
define what's reasonable. This ruling could help define what is reasonable.
Michael Hancock
blistered and bleeding by the time she was done. If his butt was a little
sore when she was done... tough, do your homework next time kid. As for the
17 year old that phoned it in. Sounds like she could use a paddlin' too.
Mike
Gabby
Michael Hancock wrote in message <9032t0$23i6$1...@hathaway.nfld.com>...
Coming from a family where the wooden spoon was the tool of choice for a
spanking, sparcely used I must admit, I still have a problem with the idea
of paddling a 4 year old for not doing his homework. Just how much homework
did you do as a 4 year old?? Mother sounds like she needs an "early
childhood development and education" course. 4 year olds should be playing
not doing homework.
Gabby (mom of 3 aged 16-21)
Dave & Tina
I went to St. Bon's in the 70's and I can tell you I
saw the strap on many occassions. Sometimes for nothing
more than some general nonsense. I believe in punishment
as I do to my three children, with groundings or the lose
of privileges - not corporal punishment.
Dave
Gabby
Dave & Tina wrote in message <3A251B4D...@roadrunner.nf.net>...
>Where you do you draw the line for the punishment?
>I went to St. Bon's in the 70's and I can tell you I
>saw the strap on many occassions. Sometimes for nothing
>more than some general nonsense. I believe in punishment
>as I do to my three children, with groundings or the lose
>of privileges - not corporal punishment.
>Dave
I was always on the receiving end of the spoon, not the giving end.
Personally, I must admit that my kids received the occasional hand on butt
but only one got "spanked" and that occured when I absolutely lost it and I
apologized profusely afterward. I swore after it happened that I would
never spank again. He's 18 now, and I still feel guilty. For the most
part, punishment was time out or loss of a toy or priviledge.
The interesting thing for me is that if my kids misbehaved when we were
visiting my parents, I could see the look in my parents eyes that said what
a lousy parent I was for not paddling them but only sending them to their
room. They bit their tongues, but it was easy to tell by their body
language.
Gabby
Jae Bee
cannot speak from that point of view. But I see it that if the child grows
up getting hit, I would think the chances of him hitting his children to
disipline them are greater. Maybe parents should try to teach tier
childrent that when they do something wrong, there is other ways to resolve
it other than violence.
The King
Wanted some insight from others who are parents.
I had my share of slaps on the hand and occasionally the belt
on the hand and when I really got out of hand..the belt on the arse.
But mostly other forms of punishment like going to my room, taking
a toy away, etc. The worst punishment I ever had was none...I
did something wrong and expected a punishment but they told me
they were really disappointed in me and that was it. I felt soooo bad.
Now I was 13 at the time so a spanking wasn't really appropriate either.
Now....I didn't turn out to be a violent person (a little sarcastic maybe)
but my point is that neither myself or my brother turned out too bad.
We still love our parents and respect them.
I wonder how I will discipline my own kids when the time comes.
I agree with corporal punishment under the right circumstances.
If there are no other ways to resolve the issues a parent must bring
the child to his senses by inflicting a little pain. I guess there are all
sorts
of ideologies on the matter of punishing a child.
I have cousins who are raising their kids without physical punishment.
So far, the kids have turned out to be spoiled brats who get away
with everything. They backtalk and ignore their parents especially
when company is around. Now who's to say that even if these kids
had been spanked they would not be brats??? No one knows
My girlfriend and I talked about it last night. She saw her friend spank
her 9
yr old son in a restaurant once. It looked really bad. Other people looked
on with disgust. The child deserved it because he had been very unruly
and she had reached her limit of "now don't do that" and "Please be good"
So it looks bad but my point is that sometimes there is no other recourse.
Especially when you are not at home and sending a kid to his room isn't
an option.
Obviously a topic with many opinions.
"Jae Bee" <nf_ja...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:903hpm$7fq$1...@nova.thezone.net...
Rob
quick flick on the back of the neck once (both to which I saw my fathers
tearful expression afterwards) and having certain priviledges suspended, for
for misbehaving.
Guess what? Not once did myself and a few friends ever attack another
person, beat the living shit out of him, sodomize him with a stick, and
leave him for dead in a cemetary....Go figure.
I'm willing to bet that if those kids ( asshole bastards) gotten a
scattered tap for getting out of line, that poor youngster wouldn't have
suffered that night as he had!
The Young Offenders Act is a total joke! And don't even get me started on
those smartalecky little pr**cks that hang out in the mall!
--
Robert H. Sheppard
"The King" <the...@hotmail.ca> wrote in message
news:902t2o$ps$1...@nova.thezone.net...
Kimberly
Correct me if i'm wrong.. but aren't kids the only "beings" in Canada that
we can legally hit. (You can't hit your dog... thus the term "beings").
Anyways, the idea that we teach a child right from wrong by smacking their
bottom... or better yet slapping the back of their hand is absurd. I have
no doubt children learn from this method... but so do children who are
spoken to... who are told "no" when they reach for something breakable.
With regard to older children who aren't just reaching for something
breakable but who are truly acting unruly and are old enough to know the
difference... they too can learn from being spanked... but they can also
learn from being spoken too... and they didn't just get out of control one
day out of the blue... most times it's a process that starts out as a small
problem and progresses.
IMHO
Kimberly
Kelly & Gary Mollins
to a child that would be a criminal offense if done to an adult????
My PERSONAL opinion is that the problems we see with youth today comes from a
lack of discipline, other than corporal punishment, or from too much corporal
punishment. It is easy to let children do what they please, or, to the other
extreme, whack them for every misbehavior. I have seen supposedly intelligent,
well educated, adults let VCRs be their kids electronic baby sitters. Just the
other night, I went to see "Meet The Parents". There was a couple sitting
behind me with two kids under ten years old! I have seen the same type of
parents argue, horribly, in front of their 8 year old. I NEVER saw my parents
argue. I saw them disagree. I knew when they were having a disagreement. But I
never felt that my security was threatened by it.
My parents also discussed issues with me. I did not get something every time
we went to a store. As a result, I think I remember every time I did get
something special. If I excelled at something or won something in school, I got
praise, and the look of pride in my parents face. I wrote a play in high
school. It was put off by our drama group. My father was not what you would
call a "theatre buff". He got grade three education in outport Nfld. I was
never as nervous as the night he came to see one of our performances. When we
got home, he sat on the couch and called me into the room. I knew he had
trouble expressing what he felt. He made some remarks about how I had the
ability to put words together. Then he reached into his pocket and gave me
$100.00. That was twenty years ago and I was 16 years old. I was receiving a
$5.00 a week allowance. My father had never done anything like that before. I
inherited my father's difficulty in expressing how one feels. At the time, I
said "Gee Dad, thank a million." But inside I was feeling all teary. I wish I
could relive that moment and tell him that it wasn't the $100.00 that meant so
much to me as the pride he felt in me.
I think parents have to be the kind of people that their kids want to make
proud, and to not disappoint. That's a tall order.
On the other hand, I have friends who have two wonderful children. These
children are a joy to be around. They are 11 and 14. Talking to them is like
talking to a mature adult. Sure, the parents are going through the usual
hassles of raising kids that age. But I would bet my bottom dollar that these
kids are going to be okay. What is their secret? The parents consider
themselves parents first. They set reasonable standards of behaviour and expect
them to be followed. If they are not, they discuss it with the child and
allocate punishment accordingly. The punishment is never corporal. As the kids
get older, they discuss with the kids what their "rules" should be. But the
parents have the final say. No democracy, but a compassionate dictatorship.
Kids need that security. BTW, I wonder if it coincidental that these kids are
home schooled. They are also enrolled in outside activities, so they have lots
of socializing. And no, it is not perfect. The parents sometimes lose their
cool and raise yell at their kids. But never abuse. They then discuss their own
behaviour and will apologize to their kids as they would to an adult that they
had yelled at. They will also discuss the behaviour that instigated the
yelling.
Parenting is not easy. I remember reading an interview with a child
psychologist who after years in his chosen field, became a parent. He figured
he was the most prepared person on the face of the planet. Imagine his shock
when he found himself saying to his five year old, "Because I said so, that's
why!!".
Well, that's my two cents worth.
regards,
Kelly
Chris
beat the crap out of their children on a whim. That is a good thin. However,
there are more and more parents who refuse to discipline there children in
any manner. This is a bad thing. Society is going from one extreme to the
other.
I have become rather angry while typing this regarding somthing else, so I
can't continue with much sucess, and may add more later, but, as a final
thought....
According to this court ruling, it's wrong to paddle the child, but it's ok
to beat the living crap out of the child as long as you do it with your bare
hands.... bit of an enigma....
--
Chris
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"The King" <the...@hotmail.ca> wrote in message
news:902t2o$ps$1...@nova.thezone.net...
Jerry
children yes or no" post made
it around again. Sorta like bell bottoms you know. And as usual we have
our odd assortment of
would be experts whipping out their personal banners. Wanna pound your
kid? No Problem! Just haul out a belt or a wooden spoon (??) or a
paddle and whack away. No wait, the other side cries "foul". Ok ok tell
ya what, lets just swat 'em on the behind a little shall we? NOPE!
That'll traumatize them to no end, sayes the nay-sayers. After all
"adults" and animals aren't allowed to be HIT. hmmmmm dilemma. Wait now,
I have a solution..... why don't those that haven't been parents
yet....just clip yer lips! Get your kids first, then figure out how to
go about raising them. When you figure that out, you just trot on in
here dispense your worldly wisdom for all to see and absorb. Somehow
having stories related second hand about such and such's kids just don't
seem to have the same clout. And you bunch that go around using blunt
force trauma to discipline kids, get yourselves into therapy! I'm a
parent, and I'm in for the long haul. My kids are just that.... kids.
They need to be shown right from wrong and how to become well adjusted
adults. Sometimes, because-they-are-kids they try me out like you would
not believe. Thats their job! Try out adults. See if we break. Once in
awhile a kid will push the envelope far enough and enough times on the
same item, such that all the "nos" in the world are just NOT GONNA DO
IT. There needs to be a little more attention getting. A swat or two on
a behind to sort of prove the importance of listening does NOT do untold
irrevocable mental damage to a child. As long as it isn't used
excessively, and hugs are doled out a great deal more in reward
situations, I'm sure it's fine. And don't lay on this tripe about how
adults aren't allowed to be hit. Of course they aren't. It's much better
to take an adults m-o-n-e-y!!!! Now just before you bleeding heart heros
and heroines of the banishment of corporal punishment start clawing the
skin off me, let me tell ya, my children are 13 and 10, and between
both, they haven't felt my hand on their butts more than 4-5 times and
not for some time, and only when their behaviour had potential
life/health threatening possibilities for them. They are very well
adjusted; still
kids, and all which that entails; and having a ball growing up in a
caring, loving household with parents that are just that,.......parents.
Roger Wiertz
Gabby wrote:
> Coming from a family where the wooden spoon was the tool of choice for a
> spanking, sparcely used I must admit, I still have a problem with the idea
> of paddling a 4 year old for not doing his homework. Just how much homework
> did you do as a 4 year old?? Mother sounds like she needs an "early
> childhood development and education" course. 4 year olds should be playing
> not doing homework.
>
> Gabby (mom of 3 aged 16-21)
You haven't had a kid in Kindergarten lately. It ain't what it used to be!
My daughter had four homework tasks to complete each week at age the grand old
age of five years. Depending on the kid's month of birth, yup, a four year old
could be getting homework four nights a week.
I'll refrain from engaging rant mode.
Best Regards
Roger Wiertz
Gander
SPAMBLOCK ALERT: Remove THIS from the addy to reply by email.
Ed Kennedy
beating the child? First of all you are teaching the child that the way to
get results is through violence. There is a big difference between
punishment and discipline. Punishment is punitive and used as a form of
revenge. Discipline is used for correction and teaching.
If you were to take a paddle to an adult you would be charged with assault.
In fact, you can not even take a paddle to an animal without being charged.
So why is it ok to take a paddle to a child?
Children need discipline and they need boundaries set for proper development
and maturation. Children need to understand that there are consequences
attached to their actions. Where most parents go wrong is not following
through on the consequences or setting unrealistic consequences to begin
with. You have to say what you mean and mean what you say.
Parents who use physical violence as a form of punishment soon realize that
while their children are small, it often achieves it's goal of gaining
control over the child,(through fear) but once the child reaches their teens
and is now close to 6 feet tall and 160+ lbs, beating the child into
submission is no longer possible. That's when the parents often call
Children's Protection or complain to the teachers that they no longer have
any control over their child. Of course they don't!
Studies indicated that the biggest factor in determining your parenting
style is how you yourself were parented. We learn by example.
There is absolutely no reason to spank a child, let alone beat them with a
stick.
Ed
"Michael Hancock" <mhan...@nfld.com> wrote in message
news:9032t0$23i6$1...@hathaway.nfld.com...
> I see nothing wrong with the use of a paddle. Provided the kids arse
wasn't
> blistered and bleeding by the time she was done. If his butt was a little
> sore when she was done... tough, do your homework next time kid. As for
the
> 17 year old that phoned it in. Sounds like she could use a paddlin' too.
>
> Mike
>
>
Gabby
Roger Wiertz <wie...@thezone.net> wrote in message
news:3A25A8EA...@thezone.net...
> You haven't had a kid in Kindergarten lately. It ain't what it used to
be!
>
> My daughter had four homework tasks to complete each week at age the grand
old
> age of five years. Depending on the kid's month of birth, yup, a four
year old
> could be getting homework four nights a week.
>
Gee, wish my high schoolers had that much. Seems like the whole system is
upside down.
Gabby
Jack Lanphear
office!!!
Those little Sob's probably got a good whack everyday from some mixed up and
out of control quasi parent. Violence as displayed by these little pricks
does not just manifest itself in normal adjusted children, these kids have
had some major trauma to their personalities and are acting out in the
accepted manner according to their upbringings. Don't get me wrong, I blame
the sob's for taking a unfortunate turn in life and throwing it back at
someone 10 fold. I say lock them up for ever! Let them live the life of
their choosing far removed from those of us who are trying to cope with or
without our own horrors of childhood violence and its repercussions in
quasi peace and safety.
Rob <r_she...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3a257...@209.128.1.3...
> Well, I'm 29 now. In my years growing up, I experienced the belt twice, a
> quick flick on the back of the neck once (both to which I saw my fathers
> tearful expression afterwards) and having certain priviledges suspended,
for
> for misbehaving.
> Guess what? Not once did myself and a few friends ever attack another
> person, beat the living shit out of him, sodomize him with a stick, and
> leave him for dead in a cemetary....Go figure.
> I'm willing to bet that if those kids ( asshole bastards) gotten a
> scattered tap for getting out of line, that poor youngster wouldn't have
> suffered that night as he had!
> The Young Offenders Act is a total joke! And don't even get me started on
> those smartalecky little pr**cks that hang out in the mall!
>
> --
> Robert H. Sheppard
Debbie Rothman
And, assuming that it is reasonable to expect him to do it and punish him for
not doing it, wouldn't a more appropriate punishment in this instance be
additional work or not permitting him to engage in other, enjoyable activities
that had been planned until the work is completed? Shouldn't physical
punishment, if it is used at all, be reserved for outright defiance, for
knowing violations of moral codes (stealing, for example), for deception and
concealment, for deliberate destruction of others' property, for endangering
oneself or someone else, and other serious matters?
Having said this, though, I do not think that it is appropriate for the
government to intervene in such matters unless the child is actually abused.
The use of an implement, in itself, or the fact that a child was physically
punished for a minor offense does not constitute abuse. Individual parents
have the right to decide how strict to be in enforcing rules and how severe
penalties are to be -- no matter what anyone else thinks. Abuse occurs when
there is damage or impairment, when a child lives in a constant state of fear,
not understanding when or why torture will descend on him or her, or when
discipline is used to gratify the parents' sexual or power needs rather than to
educate the child. In this case, there is no evidence that the child was
physically or psychologically damaged, the reason for the punishment is quite
clear, and the parent's motive seemed to be the child's own good as she saw it.
Debbie Rothman
Brooklyn, NY
myself
felt like doing it, I said to myself that I shouldn't because these days you
don't know what will come out of it.
These days you have to think before spanking because you'll probably have your
ass dragged into court, Kids have too much control over these matters and the
problem is they know it, I know kids who tell their parents if they spank them
they'll report them, Now tell me there's nothing wrong with this picture?
I agree with the courts looking out for children but where does it end, You
can't spank your kids when they desrve it because you're afraid yourself.
My Daughter fell down and cut her leg so we took her to the Janeway, Myself
and my wife were asked many inappropriate questions as if they thought we did
it, then they get the child alone and ask the same questions to her to see if
the answers match up.
All she had was a small cut on her leg.
Theres something serious gonna happen one of these days because kids have too
much control.
I agree noone should harm a child but theres a difference between hitting a
child and spanking a child.
jay
I would love to slap your big fat ass.
Debbie Rothman
>Rob
> I would love to slap your big fat ass.
Yet another debate which has reached the highest level of scholarly
discourse.
Debbie Rothman
Brooklyn, NY
Michael Hancock
Mike
"Ed Kennedy" <edke...@roadrunner.nf.net> wrote in message
Ed Kennedy
Ed
"Michael Hancock" <mhan...@spamthis.nfld.com> wrote in message
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