Supply side plumbing
Joe
man...@newsguy.com says...
>
>In article <38929184.0...@drn.newsguy.com>,
>Joe <J...@NewsGuy.Com> wrote:
>>Our contractor sent us to his guy for appliances. We were a little put off
by
>>"You can meet him at 2PM between exits 7 & 8 on the turnpike",
and
>>delivery was a bit sketchy, but still....
>
>I think that was the same guy that sold me a "plasma TV" for $150, but
>it turned out to be one of those globes you put your hands on to make
>funny colors. I'm still trying to get Channel 4 tuned in... but hey,
>he offered free delivery!
> Bob
>
I'm not sure what feels worse, free delivery of non-existant product, or 20%
over list for a "special customer". It looks like appliances can get a pretty
good discount, while other items are pretty constant and a heavy discount
usually means a different product.
Windows are a big treat; double or single pane glass? Air or Argon? UV
filter or plain? True lite or internal grill? Plastic or paper? I think they
just try
to wear you down.
On the globe ? Try channel 7.
Bob Manson
Joe <J...@NewsGuy.Com> wrote:
>In article <aj1mb...@enews1.newsguy.com>,
>filter or plain? True lite or internal grill? Plastic or paper? I think they
>just try to wear you down.
I just had Marvin Tilt-Packs put in last year, and I like'm a lot. I
opted for the double pane argon with UV filter. And they're wood!
Wood, I tell you! That stuff that grows on trees! ("Yeah, yeah, the
panes are wood, yeah, I can't see through'em but they're really the
cat's bark.")
They made a big improvement in the appearance of the house... the old
ones were those awful aluminum single-pane things. The house has no
insulation, so it the doublepane thing was silly... but someday I'll
add insulation. (Or tear it down and rebuild, but with the requirement
of using the existing windows. ;-)
>On the globe ? Try channel 7.
I gave it to a friend... I think he's still trying to convert it into
a EKG monitor.
Bob
Bob
>
>In article <aj10o...@drn.newsguy.com>, b...@newsguy.com says...
>>
>>On 8 Aug 2002 18:18:06 -0700, Joe said...
>>>
>>>In article <hnv5lu0m3tiogpb32...@4ax.com>,
>>>wol...@nym.alias*net says...
>>>>
>>>>On 8 Aug 2002 06:45:04 -0700, Joe <J...@NewsGuy.Com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Anyone have any insight into current supply side plastic plumbing
>>>>>systems compared to more traditional copper ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'd go with plastic if it were my place. Cheaper to replace if you have
>an
>>>>ice storm, lose power and end up with bursted pipes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wolfie
>>>>
>>>
>>>I was talking to a builder who said he could plumb a 3,000 sq ft home
>in a
>>>few hours with the stuff, and it is nothing when it comes to special tools
>>>and relaterd expenses. I think you're right.
>>>
>>>Joe
>>
>>Huh, I always thought that copper would be more resilient than plastic in
>>harsher climates, but it seems like most builders tend to recommend
>plastic
>>first.
>>
>>>From a time standpoint, have any of the builders mentioned how much
>longer
>>plastic plumbing would outlive copper, or vice versa?
>>
>>Best regards,
>>B...@newsguy.com
>
>You're right, copper material is more resilient than plastic although
>weather plays a less important role. Temperatures that would damage
>plastic would also freeze and burst copper, so the difference my not be as
>great. There may also be an issue of outgasing from plastic, I am not sure
>it is as inert as copper.
>
>We're finding lots of oddities in construction. As an example, partial
>overlay cabinets cost considerably less than full overlay even though
>drawer and cabinet size are identical. Cup hinges cost more, generally,
>than scissors hinges, even though scissors is as durable and can be
>opened to a greater angle. Corian edging is charged out by about $15 a
>liner foot, but granite edging is free. Today, the best grade granite cost
>less than a comparable area of man made Corian.
>
>There are so many slight of hand tricks in pricing various product lines.
>Lower end products will use a higher end product's nomenclature on
>model to model comparison. The biggest different is particle board
>versus plywood, then better grade plywood, then better grade veneer. I
>think with remodeling and new construction, a person could upgrade to
>another level of products just by doing a little comparative pricing, or save
>a truck load of money. I think 15% separates model level pricing, but there
>is often 30% to find in competitive shopping.
>
>Our contractor sent us to his guy for appliances. We were a little put off by
>
It's amazing how many details have to be accounted for during that process, but
with a little persistence and patience, the end result will make it all
worthwhile.
In respect to the plastic/copper comparison, what do you mean by "outgasing"?
Cabinet estimates can get pretty creative as you mentioned, and we had a friend
go through a few problems initially, until the contractor eventually caved in
and produced the cabinets they should have installed in her home the first time
around.
Different product lines can look very similar from an outward appearance, but
when you start to look a little closer... hinges, particle board, etc... the
differences become pretty noticeable.
As far as the appliances guy, was he actually going to park the truck to unload
the items, or was he just planning on a 'rolling stop'.
Best regards,
B...@newsguy.com
Joe
man...@newsguy.com says...
The Marvin wood products are great, almost like real windows. I think we
went with double argon with UV filter and bonded grills outside and pop
out grills inside, Anderson. Outside is wood frame under vinyl and wood
inside. We went with double hung over casement.
The last house we went do it yourself crazy and put in a large bay and
some run of double hung windows that shamed us into pulling all of the
sheetrock and insulating the walls and ceiling. Better to have the upgrade
covered on renovation, it's only a matter of time before guilt drives you to
do the rest.
Joe
Joe
Delivery was a lot like when I was a kid and use to tale the bus over to NY
to buy fireworks on July 4, "Give me the money now, then walk around the
block and look under the trash can on the corner.
I'm using outgas as a more generic term where elements of the carrier
are transferred to the water, mostly in the form of chemicals unintended
for drinking.
Joe
Charles Eicher
>
>I'm using outgas as a more generic term where elements of the carrier
>are transferred to the water, mostly in the form of chemicals unintended
>for drinking.
Remember, water is the "universal solvent" and it will dissolve any solid, given
enough time. Think of the Grand Canyon. Water will dissolve small amounts of any
material it is stored in, including plastic pipes. There's a lot of debate about
whether this has any health effect. I note the FDA set a recommended minimum
daily intake for copper, but has set no RDA for plastic.
It might amuse you to know the story of a laboratory that manufactured
super-pure water, with less than a few atoms of contaminants per mililiter. But
they were completely stumped about how to store and ship the stuff without
contamination, because it would dissolve silica atoms from glass, or any sort of
bottle. They finally figured it out, they used a bottle made from superpure ice.
Bob
Thanks for the outgas explanation, and I can see where that would be a big
concern when making the plastic/copper selection.
This is probably a goofy question, but can the outgas problem... plastic or
copper... be minimized with one of the basic water filtration systems you see
advertised all the time?
If not, are there any preparations that the contractor can make during the
plumbing installation, that would help reduce outgassing?
Best regards,
B...@newsguy.com
Joe
>
>In article <38948709.0...@drn.newsguy.com>, Joe says...
Joe
Joe
>
>On 9 Aug 2002 20:05:09 -0700, Joe said...
>>
>>>
>>>On 9 Aug 2002 14:39:44 -0700, Joe said...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 8 Aug 2002 18:18:06 -0700, Joe said...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>wol...@nym.alias*net says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 8 Aug 2002 06:45:04 -0700, Joe <J...@NewsGuy.Com>
I think there is particulate filtration and deionizers that get rid of most
unwanted elements, but this also makes the water taste flat. I think good
water sources and not screwing the water up with too much technology is
the best way to go.
Joe
Charles Eicher
A plastic bottle. I suppose I should give more details. The bottle of pure ice
was made by spraying superpure water inside a vessel made of the most
dissolve-resistant plastic they could find. Layer after layer was slowly
sprayed, so that each layer would freeze and seal off the lower layer. After
sufficient layers were deposited to make a superpure ice surface inside the
bottle, the superpure icewater was poured in (had to be icy cold so as not to
melt the ice) and the whole thing was frozen solid. The big trick was that you
had to melt the ice from the inside out, and take the liquid from the center of
the bottle, being careful to stop before hitting the less-pure bottle.
Joe
>>
>>In article <aj29c...@drn.newsguy.com>, cei...@inav.net says...
>>>
>>>In article &lt;38948709.0...@drn.newsguy.com>, Joe
landscape, then the aritist painting the artist painting the landscape, then
the artist, painting the artist, painting the artist painting the landscape...
Escape from the Planet of the Apes.
Any tips on stone fireplace building?
Joe
Charles Eicher
>
>I'm thinking this is beginning to sound a little like the artist painting a
>landscape, then the aritist painting the artist painting the landscape, then
>the artist, painting the artist, painting the artist painting the landscape...
It was a lot simpler conceptually when I described it as a superpure ice bottle.
BTW, have you seen this?
http://escherdroste.math.leidenuniv.nl/
>Escape from the Planet of the Apes.
You remind me of an old Saturday Night Live parody, back from the earliest days
when they were still funny. It's a parody of a movie trailer. The film shows
people running in panic while the announcer speaks in that unmistakeable voice,
"hundreds of people.. trapped inside a movie theater.. unable to leave.. unable
to endure the torture of the worst movie ever made.. it's "Escape from 'Escape
from New York.'""
>Any tips on stone fireplace building?
>
>Joe
Lifting heavy stones sounds like hard labor. Maybe you should try a lighter
material like papier mache, styrofoam, or cork.
Seriously though, I wish you'd asked me this a year ago, when I had a perfectly
good Franklin Stove that ended up in the dump. You could have had it, free. My
current house has a Franklin Stove, it's really efficent. In fact, TOO
efficient, I hardly ever use it because the whole house gets too hot, the
builder of this home really did a poor job with the ventilation.
I personally think wood fires are a bad source of pollution, so you've got to
strive for efficiency, get the most heat for the least environmental impact.
It's under your control so it's my inclination to control it. The best
fireplaces are those fancy closed-box forced-air systems. They're moderately
ugly and more-than-moderately expensive, and about as romantic as watching the
pilot light on your stove.
Joe
>
>In article <39025946.0...@drn.newsguy.com>, Joe says...
>>
>
>>I'm thinking this is beginning to sound a little like the artist painting a
>>landscape, then the aritist painting the artist painting the landscape,
then
>>the artist, painting the artist, painting the artist painting the landscape...
>
>It was a lot simpler conceptually when I described it as a superpure ice
bottle.
>
>BTW, have you seen this?
>
>http://escherdroste.math.leidenuniv.nl/
Excellent and glad I no longer drink significant quantities of beer.
We never actually light a fire, too dangerous, too smoky and too many
chemicals - but they sure look nice if done correctly and with nice natural
stone, flat side out. It looks like about 30 sq ft per ton which is looking like
a little over 10 tons on the living room floor. Flat stone is about 3 tons, and
your Styrofoam suggestion is beginning to look pretty good.
Joe
Bob Manson
Joe <J...@NewsGuy.Com> wrote:
>your Styrofoam suggestion is beginning to look pretty good.
If you're never going to light a fire in it, then yeah, why not use
fake Styrofoam rocks? Worked on Star Trek pretty nicely, and if
you've got some spares sitting around there's no problem with the dog
chewing it up...
If you're trying to be truly cheap, just use painted Styrofoam peanuts
(not the starch kind, those melt in the rain) and tell your visitors
the fireplace is made out of really expensive imported pebbles from
Russia. That's even easier to repair.
Bob
Joe
man...@newsguy.com says...
>
>In article <39106945.0...@drn.newsguy.com>,
tax rebate. I have to admit Maine utilities are relatively inexpensive
compared to CA, where they run about $200/lb.
Joe