What are the top 5 newsreaders for Windows?
Sludge
-------------------
1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
2. Xnews 03.04.11
http://xnews.3dnews.net
3. MicroPlanet Gravity 2.3b4
http://www.microplanet.com
4. Forté Agent 1.8
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/
5. Forté Free Agent 1.21
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm
Arjan Drieman
>Here are my picks:
>-------------------
>
>1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
You call that a newsreader?
Arjan
--
begin LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to help me spread!
end
Charles
just comment on Agent 1.8 ( I have been a registered Agent user for 3 years)
and Outlook Express v5.x
They are both email / news applications. Agent has more versatile and
powerful filters but most folks will find them difficult to implement and not
needed for most day-to-day filtering needs. OTOH OE 5.x has a beautiful
point-and-click interface to assemble mail and news filters that will handle
99% of most users needs. It couldn't be easier and first-time OE users can
quite easily get their filters assembled and going on the first try. Agent
does shine in dealing with and reassembling multi-part binaries automatically.
It is a manual operation in OE 5.x. As I see it that is the only score that
Agent makes between the two applications. And again most folks do not scour
the binary ng's that much . However for those that do Agent does well in this
limited role.
Now...with that said here is where Agent has it's biggest downfall. With a
single running instance of Agent you can configure it for only one news server
and one mail server. That's it. With OE 5.x you can configure for as many news
servers and mail servers that you want. This is a big enough deficit to Agent
that it won me over to OE 5.x about a year or so ago. I currently have 2 mail
accounts and 3 news accounts. I would need to run 3 concurrent instances of
Agent just to do my daily mail and news. And as a sidelight Agent cannot
automatically get news for you. OE 5.x can and at set intervals retrieve all
your mail and all the news. Mine runs every 7 minutes. With Agent when you want
news you have to manually click the toolbar to get it. To be fair I must add
that Agent -can- automatically get email at set intervals but not news.
So....I am not trying to persuade anyone to do anything. Agent die-hards
will remain and those that prefer OE will continue to use it.
- B U T - for me it is a no-brainer. Outlook Express v5.x is easier to use
and does more. And it saves the $29 price tag of Agent.
One final thing Agent looks like old-school software. The toolbar is ugly
and the menus are too. OE 5.x looks like something right out of the year 2000
....... which it is. I see this has been cross-posted to the Agent ng so I am
putting on my flamesuit.
--
Charles T Johnston - AB7SL
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL- Ham Radio Pages
http://www.ab7sl.com
"Joe Btfsplk" <j...@schlepper.com> wrote in message
news:gkppnskkccf8k1t28...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:50:08 -0800, "Sludge" <slud...@a0l.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Here are my picks:
> >-------------------
> >
> >1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
> >http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
> >
> >2. Xnews 03.04.11
> >http://xnews.3dnews.net
> >
> >3. MicroPlanet Gravity 2.3b4
> >http://www.microplanet.com
> >
> >4. Forté Agent 1.8
> >http://www.forteinc.com/agent/
> >
> >5. Forté Free Agent 1.21
> >http://www.forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm
> >
> Here they are :
>
> 1). Agent 1.8
>
> 2).Agent 1.8
>
> 3).Agent 1.8
>
> 4).Agent 1.8
>
> 5). And I think the other one might be.....
>
>
>
> Agent 1.8
Glen Quarnstrom
>1. Outlook Express (though noone admits it it seems??)
Typically used by mouthbreathers who can't spell "no one."
--
gl...@cyberhighway.net
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~glenq/
Joe Btfsplk
Roger Sherman
the petulant flamefests that you did last year.
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 18:50:02 -0700, "Charles" <cha...@ab7sl.com>
wrote:
peace,
John De Hoog
>Agent has more versatile and
>powerful filters but most folks will find them difficult to implement and not
>needed for most day-to-day filtering needs. OTOH OE 5.x has a beautiful
>point-and-click interface to assemble mail and news filters that will handle
>99% of most users needs. It couldn't be easier and first-time OE users can
>quite easily get their filters assembled and going on the first try.
I don't see where you get that idea. People who use news groups
generally want to be able to do things like watch and ignore threads,
and have posts on certain topics or by certain posters downloaded
automatically. They want to be able to make effective kill filters
easily. What could be easier than the way Agent handles these tasks?
What do you mean, anyway, by "most day-to-day filtering needs"? Usenet
is used by only around 5 percent of Internet users; the discussion
groups are used by even fewer people, and most of them are here
because they have above-average interest and experience with the
Internet. Usenet is one place where I would expect to see people with
advanced requirements for their software. I'm by no means an MS
basher, but IE is not what I'd call sophisticated software. The
biggest advantage it has is multi-lingual support, including Unicode;
but even Agent has that now too.
I agree with you on the advantages of multi-server support and
scheduled server checks (though it's no big deal to set up Agent with
multiple instances and to use a scheduler with it). In any case,
having used all the other news readers on the (micro)planet, including
ones like EdMax and Datula and DinoX (Sweet16) that you've never heard
of, I find myself drifting back to Agent. Why? Because it's the
easiest way to follow news groups without spending time wading through
a lot of junk. Relatively speaking, of course.
* * * * * * * * * *
My own list of five good news readers, in no particular order:
Agent, News Rover, NewsBin Pro, EdMax, XNews
All five are different, each with its own strengths and areas of
usefulness. I'm a paid-up user of the first four; the fifth is free.
--
John De Hoog http://dehoog.org
Tracy McKibben
"argument"...
> Just to narrow this topic down for a moment to fit my remarks in I want to
>just comment on Agent 1.8 ( I have been a registered Agent user for 3 years)
>and Outlook Express v5.x
I've been an OE user since it was "Internet Mail and News" back in
IE3. You couldn't have convinced me that there was anything "wrong"
with it if your life depended on it, or any other MS product for that
matter. Once they killed off my beloved OS/2, I was convinced they
could not be beaten. My views have changed over the last few months.
> They are both email / news applications. Agent has more versatile and
>powerful filters but most folks will find them difficult to implement and not
>needed for most day-to-day filtering needs. OTOH OE 5.x has a beautiful
>point-and-click interface to assemble mail and news filters that will handle
>99% of most users needs. It couldn't be easier and first-time OE users can
>quite easily get their filters assembled and going on the first try. Agent
>does shine in dealing with and reassembling multi-part binaries automatically.
>It is a manual operation in OE 5.x. As I see it that is the only score that
>Agent makes between the two applications. And again most folks do not scour
>the binary ng's that much . However for those that do Agent does well in this
>limited role.
This was one of the things that hooked me, was the appearance. It is
an attractive interface, and does work well. One has to wonder,
however, what was left out under the hood in the interest of getting
all that chrome put on? It seems like every week MS is mailing out a
new Security Bulletin involving the IE/OE products. That's what made
me being to lose the faith.
> Now...with that said here is where Agent has it's biggest downfall. With a
>single running instance of Agent you can configure it for only one news server
>and one mail server. That's it. With OE 5.x you can configure for as many news
>servers and mail servers that you want. This is a big enough deficit to Agent
>that it won me over to OE 5.x about a year or so ago. I currently have 2 mail
>accounts and 3 news accounts. I would need to run 3 concurrent instances of
>Agent just to do my daily mail and news. And as a sidelight Agent cannot
>automatically get news for you. OE 5.x can and at set intervals retrieve all
>your mail and all the news. Mine runs every 7 minutes. With Agent when you want
>news you have to manually click the toolbar to get it. To be fair I must add
>that Agent -can- automatically get email at set intervals but not news.
This automation is going to end up being a real problem at some point.
It covers up what's really happening, hiding it from the user. This
in itself is not a bad thing, but when it involves data coming in from
the outside world, I personally want to know what it taking place.
First, someone figured out a way to use Word macros to do bad things.
Then it was email attachments. Now it's buffer overruns. Sooner or
later, someone is going to figure out how to take advantage of one of
these "automatic" features.
> So....I am not trying to persuade anyone to do anything. Agent die-hards
>will remain and those that prefer OE will continue to use it.
As I myself might, if they ever plug all the holes. For now, however,
the combination of Pegasus and Free Agent makes me cringe a little
less when I go online.
> - B U T - for me it is a no-brainer. Outlook Express v5.x is easier to use
>and does more. And it saves the $29 price tag of Agent.
> One final thing Agent looks like old-school software. The toolbar is ugly
>and the menus are too. OE 5.x looks like something right out of the year 2000
>....... which it is. I see this has been cross-posted to the Agent ng so I am
>putting on my flamesuit.
Again, you've got me there. OE is by far the more attractive product,
but a good-looking car that I'm afraid to drive is basically worthless
to me...
--
Tracy McKibben
tmcki...@noSPAM.mn.rr.com
--
Yay2k
3. AOL, unfortunately! LOL :)
4. That FreeAgent crap
5. NewsXpress (so good, but so damn old now)
Followed by all the automaters, such as NewsGrabber, NewsRover,
PictureSucker, etc. etc. heh
"Sludge" <slud...@a0l.com> wrote in message
news:8lia63$4cmd3$1...@ID-41100.news.cis.dfn.de...
Yeff
Tracy McKibben<tmcki...@nospam.mn.rr.com> wrote in
alt.usenet.offline-reader:
> OE is by far the more attractive product,
> but a good-looking car that I'm afraid to drive is basically worthless
> to me...
It was hard for me when I first grew up and started
trying to do Usenet like an adult. I was very used
to OE's interface and the way things looked.
I decided to start downloading new newsreaders and
trying them out. I just couldn't get used to Agent
and really didn't like how it looked. I tried Gravity
and managed make the display look like what I was used
to in OE. Since it is so powerful I stayed with it and
paid to register. After seeing people rave about Xnews
I went ahead and downloaded it for a try. I admit I
didn't experiment with it for very long so I never
got to the point of configuring everything emulate the
display I'm used to. Still, the price is right and I
wish I'd found it before paying for Gravity.
As soon as they make copy-n-paste right-click sensitive
(and speed up the spellchecker), Gravity will be just
about perfect.
-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com
Yay2k
aha
"Glen Quarnstrom" <gl...@cyberhighway.net> wrote in message
news:16aqnsg8pg42cgb7j...@4ax.com...
> "Yay2k" <m...@macrohard.com> wrote:
>
> >1. Outlook Express (though noone admits it it seems??)
>
Glen Quarnstrom
>Interestingcommentdude!Youmustbeafuckinperfecttypereh?Yeh,weknowyourtype.hah
>aha
>
>"Glen Quarnstrom" <gl...@cyberhighway.net> wrote in message
>news:16aqnsg8pg42cgb7j...@4ax.com...
>> "Yay2k" <m...@macrohard.com> wrote:
>>
>> >1. Outlook Express (though noone admits it it seems??)
>>
>> Typically used by mouthbreathers who can't spell "no one."
Top posts. Can't edit. I rest my case.
--
gl...@cyberhighway.net
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~glenq/
WernerP
wrote:
>
>1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
???
That is no newsreader that is crap.
Werner
---
Memory Dragon
Hans Dampf
<OhJkWdf9$GA....@cppssbbsa02.microsoft.com>:
>1. Outlook Express (though noone admits it it seems??)
>2. The Netscape equivilent (what's it called... Collabra?)
>3. AOL, unfortunately! LOL :)
>4. That FreeAgent crap
>5. NewsXpress (so good, but so damn old now)
>
>Followed by all the automaters, such as NewsGrabber, NewsRover,
>PictureSucker, etc. etc. heh
You have to admit that he speaks the truth. Itæ„€ not to our liking but
thatæ„€ how it really is when we are not speaking about features and
performance but sheer user power. These are the readers most people use.
Face it.
--
Hans Dampf
"Practice random acts of intelligence
& senseless acts of self-control"
Arjan Drieman
>It´s not to our liking but
>that´s how it really is when we are not speaking about features and
>performance but sheer user power.
Define user power?
>These are the readers most people use.
Most people use MSOE because they get it installed on the machine. It's
still crapware.
>Face it.
Dominik R.
<slrn8nqpkj...@quack.node0911.a2000.nl>:
>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:52:16 GMT, Hans Dampf <hoe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It´s not to our liking but
>>that´s how it really is when we are not speaking about features and
>>performance but sheer user power.
>
>Define user power?
>
=
>>These are the readers most people use.
>
>Most people use MSOE because they get it installed on the machine. It's
>still crapware.
True!
>>Face it.
>
>
>Arjan
--
Dom
http://Beam.To/Dominik/
Yapp's Basic Fact:
If a thing cannot be fitted
into something smaller than itself,
some dope will do it.
Ian Staples
>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:52:16 GMT,
>Hans Dampf <hoe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It´s not to our liking but that´s how it really is when we
>>are not speaking about features and performance but sheer
>>user power.
>
>Define user power?
Well, he clearly said it's not "features and performance".
I suspect "user power" refers to the power of users -- mob rule
if you like. :-)
>>These are the readers most people use.
>
>Most people use MSOE because they get it installed on the machine.
Yeah, that's how it happened; but it's *happened* nonetheless
and I very much doubt that it will ever "unhappen".
>It's still crapware.
So? Doesn't worry the mob.
Cheers, Ian [ Down with Democracy ;-) ] S.
Csaba Raduly
following message originated from m...@macrohard.com (Yay2k) was
reported as containing signs of intelligence:
>1. Outlook Express (though noone admits it it seems??)
>2. The Netscape equivilent (what's it called... Collabra?)
>3. AOL, unfortunately! LOL :)
>4. That FreeAgent crap
>5. NewsXpress (so good, but so damn old now)
>
[snip]
I *know* the first two fail the GNKSA, and I suspect AOL too.
I don't think this is a coincidence, it's the effect of marketing
for/to lemmings :-)
--
Csaba Raduly, Software Developer (OS/2), Sophos Anti-Virus
mailto:csaba....@sophos.com http://www.sophos.com/
US Support +1 888 SOPHOS 9 UK Support +44 1235 559933
Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
Dominik R.
<8lm497$191$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>:
>In article <slrn8nqpkj...@quack.node0911.a2000.nl>,
>duc...@duckie.neep.net wrote:
>>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:52:16 GMT,
>>Hans Dampf <hoe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Itæ„€ not to our liking but thatæ„€ how it really is when we
>>>are not speaking about features and performance but sheer
>>>user power.
>>
>>Define user power?
>
>Well, he clearly said it's not "features and performance".
>I suspect "user power" refers to the power of users -- mob rule
>if you like. :-)
>
>>>These are the readers most people use.
>>
>>Most people use MSOE because they get it installed on the machine.
>
>Yeah, that's how it happened; but it's *happened* nonetheless
>and I very much doubt that it will ever "unhappen".
>
>>It's still crapware.
>
>So? Doesn't worry the mob.
>
>Cheers, Ian [ Down with Democracy ;-) ] S.
Exactly my thoughts...
Dominik R.
Dominik R.
<8F7D86F39gi...@195.34.133.35>:
>Exactly my thoughts...
Sorry, I had problems with my Newsserver
Arjan Drieman
>>1. Outlook Express (though noone admits it it seems??)
>>2. The Netscape equivilent (what's it called... Collabra?)
>>3. AOL, unfortunately! LOL :)
>I *know* the first two fail the GNKSA, and I suspect AOL too.
Heh... If it's as bad as their email client, it won't even reach 20%.
Damn that AOL email junk is freaking annoying on the maillists I'm on.
I suspect the newsreader to be just as bad ;-)
>I don't think this is a coincidence, it's the effect of marketing
>for/to lemmings :-)
Unfortunately, yes. Perhaps the latest ongoing flow of bugs and
vulnerabilities in MSOE helps our cause a tad :-)
TsB
programs. I look for ease of use and powerful features.
I've tried all of them. My votes:
(1). News Xpress. Because of its excellent GUI interface and
ease. (You got to love the feature of right-clicking multi-part
files in any order and letting Xpress do the thinking and
processing)
(2). N E W S R O V E R --- my gosh, the best, in my humble
opinion. Features, friendly, powerful, fast, incredible. Nice,
nice interface. Beautifully designed. The most brilliantly-
developed newsreader ever built. Puts the others to shame.
Simplistic enough for the everyday user; feature-rich for the
power user when needed.
Forget Agent. News Rover is the Mercedes. (no, I don't work for
NewsRover either).
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Chirag Patnaik
easy introduction to Newsgroups and any serious hanger on would soon
outgrow it anyway. To expect an average person using windows to start
off with Agent or even Gravity is being a bit unreasonable, the
plethora of options available simply swamps the new user.
I started that way till I found out that I couldn't delete messages
from OE selectively. So I searched and searched and tried every
newsreader I heard of. NewsXpress, XNews, Gravity, the Netscape
client, slrn (win32 version), FreeAgent and finally Agent.
Chirag
--
http://india.4mg.com/ The very best of Indian Links.
http://www.chiragpatnaik.com/ A little about Me.
http://www.thehungersite.com/ Click and feed the Hungry.
____________________________________________________________________________
Crib, Because it is your right to do so.
Sky_Rider
>Forget Agent. News Rover is the Mercedes. (no, I don't work for
>NewsRover either).
got a URL for it??
I might take a butchers at it.... !!
--
Sky Rider
----------------------------------
What's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?? Of course... a visit to ...
... for the "Top Ten" of ad-bar rewards!!
----------------------------------
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk
<dfsilb99...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>Forget Agent. News Rover is the Mercedes. (no, I don't work for
>NewsRover either).
>
Does it handle e-mail ?
Steve
--
Steve Wolstenholme
Neural Network Applications for Windows
http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk
Yeff
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk<st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote in
alt.usenet.offline-reader:
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:51:13 -0700, TsB
> <dfsilb99...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Forget Agent. News Rover is the Mercedes. (no, I don't work for
> >NewsRover either).
> >
> Does it handle e-mail ?
Yes. See the list of features at: http://www.newsrover.com/what.htm
-Jeff B.
TsB
It's just flat-out incredible. The interface is so smooth. The
whole program blew me away.
N i c e !
Terry May
<dfsilb99...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>(2). N E W S R O V E R --- my gosh, the best, in my humble
>opinion. Features, friendly, powerful, fast, incredible. Nice,
>nice interface. Beautifully designed. The most brilliantly-
>developed newsreader ever built. Puts the others to shame.
>Simplistic enough for the everyday user; feature-rich for the
>power user when needed.
The biggest spammers of all the news readers, certainly.
--
"When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any
firearms with me. I said, 'Well, what do you need?'" - Steven Wright
Vince
news:16f98480...@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com...
> Oh yeah.
>
> It's just flat-out incredible. The interface is so smooth. The
> whole program blew me away.
>
> N i c e !
>
The interface is ok, but it's got ZERO customization options.
Les Rivett
wrote:
I'm pleased that you <snip> but what has got ZERO customization
options? <g>
--
Regards Les
(to reply by email, change 'nospam' to 'underwriters')
TsB
produce the results you want.
I like NewsRover the best, because of the smooth interface, and
features -- this software makes Usenet very, very comfortable.
Unlike some of the other readers I've used, I feel it actually
works for you and serves you, instead of you working and serving
the software.
I especially enjoy the way News Rover combines the parts of
multi-part messages automatically, just double-click one of the
message entries, and then it automatically combines the parts of
a multi-part message. (Manual selection will still be
necessary when missing parts are reposted and the headers are
different, or if the parts were not posted using the "(nn/mm)"
numbering convention.) If all the multipart files are there,
just one click.
Lots more I like. It's really one, smooth puppy. Speed was
amazing too. For some reason, it's twice as fast as Forte Agent
on my system.
ok, I'm finished talking about NewsRover.
Bye everyone. ~ TsB
Allan Mikkelsen
[snip]
> - B U T - for me it is a no-brainer. Outlook Express v5.x is easier to use
> and does more.
Couldn't agree more, Charles. Outhouse certainly does more! From an email
news I receive:-
<quote>
> Microsoft confirms that a security flaw in its Outlook
> and Outlook Express software lets crackers do
> damage to a user's computer even if the receiver
> never opens the attachment. The flaw takes
> advantage of a buffer overflow problem.
>
> All it takes it to insert a false, extremely long date
> which causes the application to crash. Malicious code
> is inserted into the incoming message attachment
> and it can be executed later. The receiving user only
> has to download the nasty message -- that's it. No
> opening, no nothing, just downloading. And how
> many of us previous our messages on the mail server
> before downloading them to our email clients? How
> many of even know how to take this extra security
> step?
>
> I suggest you bag Outlook and Outlook Express. Try
> using Eudora -- there are three versions: one is free,
> all are great.
</quote>
If you need additional features like this, go for OE.
> And it saves the $29 price tag of Agent.
What is your estimated cost of recovering from a successful virus attack on
your machine. I suggest that it will not take long for the $29 to pay for
itself.
Allan
Christa Jonkergouw
>ok, I'm finished talking about NewsRover.
Can you use it offline?
--
Christa
(no cc plus fl'up please, lets keep the discussion in the newsgroup)
Chirag Patnaik
read this:
:>The biggest spammers of all the news readers, certainly.
I didn't get that.
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk
<dfsilb99...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>I love software that doesn't require such a great effort to
>produce the results you want.
>
Don't we all..
>I like NewsRover the best, because of the smooth interface, and
>features -- this software makes Usenet very, very comfortable.
>
I have now a go with NewsRover and it's very good but the trial
doesn't only allows one post per session which make it difficult to
evaluate. The 30 day trial should be fully functional.
>Unlike some of the other readers I've used, I feel it actually
>works for you and serves you, instead of you working and serving
>the software.
>
That's the impression I got too except for the filters. They need too
many moves to set them up. I'm so use to just ctrl + k in Agent.
>I especially enjoy the way News Rover combines the parts of
>multi-part messages automatically, just double-click one of the
>message entries, and then it automatically combines the parts of
>a multi-part message.
Most newsreaders join up multiparts automatically.
>(Manual selection will still be
>necessary when missing parts are reposted and the headers are
>different, or if the parts were not posted using the "(nn/mm)"
>numbering convention.) If all the multipart files are there,
>just one click.
>
>Lots more I like. It's really one, smooth puppy. Speed was
>amazing too. For some reason, it's twice as fast as Forte Agent
>on my system.
>
I tested that out by downloading that same messages (not just the
headers) with Agent and NewsRover. NewsRover was slightly faster.
>ok, I'm finished talking about NewsRover.
>
After Agent, I would definitely go for NewsRover. I'm so use to the
convenience of Agent filters, I only use one server and I don't want
html so I'll stay put at the moment.
TsB
Yes. Offline browsing is the nicest I've seen. Period.
And the way in which News Rover structures your downloads is a
breeze.
For example, for every newsgroup to which you subscribe, it will
have 4 subdirectories (Messages, Picture Gallery, File
Attachments, HTML Attachments). After you view the article
online, you just click the newsgroup in the window, it expands
into those 4 subfolders, and click the subfolder into which the
article goes. Sooo great.
I like the way it cuts to the chase using the AutoScan feature
for articles and filtering. And the Duplicate Message feature is
really nice and works like a champ -- when News Rover reads
newsgroup message headers, it looks in the duplicate message
database to see if it has already seen the article. If an
article's message id is already in the database, the message is
discarded as a duplicate and is not downloaded. Even if you
subcribe and scan several news servers. Nice touch.
And scanning multiple servers at once, and also with all the
AutoScan article filters (pictures only, text only, etc.),
you've configured to turn on -- really really nice.
I'm still using the demo, almost done. I'll probably never use
all the features. I had to work myself to death with the other
readers. And the interfaces were just too rough. This software
works for you, not the other way around. It glides like a
skater on ice. A plethora of features, with LOTS of horsepower
too.
Ok, I'm really done now. Bye everyone ~ TsB
Bojan Pasic
>
> 1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
I think that Internet explorer 5 is the best browser available, but OE
sucks BIG TIME. After lots of rude words when using it (because it is so
damn slow, has crappy text formatting and his strange way of putting
replys and follow-ups at the top of the message). Now I use Agent and I
think it is THE newsreader (and mailer). One of the two programs I think
they're worth the price (the second one is windows commander - file
manager). I just his toolbar wouldn't look like it's from windows 3.1.
> 2. Xnews 03.04.11
> http://xnews.3dnews.net
Great program, but strange interface. But some people love it.
> 3. MicroPlanet Gravity 2.3b4
> http://www.microplanet.com
Quite powerful and good looking, but too complicated.
> 4. Forté Agent 1.8
> http://www.forteinc.com/agent/
YEAH!!!
> 5. Forté Free Agent 1.21
> http://www.forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm
Simple to use and with the most important features, but some of us needs
more - Agent.
--
Bojan Pasic aka tha_man
bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si
If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.
WernerP
<dfsilb99...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>(2). N E W S R O V E R --- my gosh, the best, in my humble
>opinion. Features, friendly, powerful, fast, incredible. Nice,
>nice interface. Beautifully designed. The most brilliantly-
>developed newsreader ever built. Puts the others to shame.
>Simplistic enough for the everyday user; feature-rich for the
>power user when needed.
Yes Newsrover is indeed great, and definitely worth to switch to from
Agent once it allows to collapse and expand threads (Which should be
in in the next version according to their support). Once it is done I
gonna dump Agent.
Werner
---
Memory Dragon
WernerP
<bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> wrote:
>
>> 1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
>
>I think that Internet explorer 5 is the best browser available, but OE
>sucks BIG TIME. After lots of rude words when using it (because it is so
>damn slow, has crappy text formatting and his strange way of putting
>replys and follow-ups at the top of the message). Now I use Agent and I
>think it is THE newsreader (and mailer). One of the two programs I think
>they're worth the price (the second one is windows commander - file
>manager). I just his toolbar wouldn't look like it's from windows 3.1.
Better use the combination Eudora+Agent, this gives you the overall
best solution (and you can use PGP as well)
Werner
---
Memory Dragon
Mark A. Odell
ex0106-045.remarq.com>:
>Christa,
>
>Yes. Offline browsing is the nicest I've seen. Period.
>
>And the way in which News Rover structures your downloads is a
>breeze.
How do you get it to collapse the threads? How do you change the
background to black? Man, I don't know I think it's back to Xnews.
--
- Mark (email information at http://www.embeddedfw.com)
Above all, try to be more like me - it makes me feel validated.
TsB
I agree on both points. It's much like the Ford/Chevy owners
debating which is better. I think once Agent users try Rover,
they'll like it more. It's just so smooth from top to bottom.
Retrievals, speed, storing downloads, filters, everything. But
there may be a feature or two Agent users may like better with
Agent.
I'd like to make one comment about IE 5 being the best browser
ever, in the post above by Bojan. I have to humbly disagree for
many reasons. It's very overbloated and buggy, full of Java
script errors, and a space hog on the computer. I never knew
what Internet browsing *should* be like, until I got OPERA. It
will drop your jaw. Whew!
Talk about fast? Man. It's the most amazing browser, ever.
I never believed it until I read the reviews, and gave it a shot.
Wow. I told my friends and relative that have IE 5 about
Opera. They graciously thanked me later.
And it only consumes roughly 1.5 meg on the hard drive. I
couldn't believe it. Performance is astouding. I have totally
dumped M$ Internet Explorer. What a relief.
One last point about M$ Outlook/Express. Horrible. If you
really want an awesome email client, get The Bat! email client.
These e-mail worms cannot spread themselves with The Bat!, since
it does not use the Microsoft Windows Address Book, and it has
PGP support all versions. I agree with Werner -- a really
fantastic email client like Eudora (or The Bat!) gives the best
security. A recently discovered flaw in Outlook/Express which
allowed vandals and hackers to take control of a PC simply by
sending an email has M$ scurrying for patches.
It's so nice to see software that outperforms M$.
My votes: News Rover, The Bat!, and Opera.
Computer life has never been so good.
~Tsb
Bojan Pasic
> Better use the combination Eudora+Agent, this gives you the overall
> best solution (and you can use PGP as well)
Yes, Eudora is real good, but too bloated for me, and it has serious
problems with CE fonts (Agent works great with them). The only thing I
_really_ like in Eudora is the way it's quoting text. You can break line
anywhere and everything will be still right quoted. I wish it could
display quotes in different color too (like Agent does). Otherwise Eudora
is definitely the best mailer.
--
Bojan Pasic aka tha_man
bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si
Russia has the Moscow Circus; WE have CONGRESS!
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk
<bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:50:08 -0800, "Sludge" <slud...@a0l.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
>
>I think that Internet explorer 5 is the best browser available, but OE
>sucks BIG TIME. After lots of rude words when using it (because it is so
Have you tried IE 5.5 yet? It's a real pain, dials when you want to
work offline and is as slow as they come. It also slows down the
loading of other applications. I agree with you about OE - it's sucks.
Murray Peterson
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:50:08 -0800, "Sludge" <slud...@a0l.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> 1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
>
>[snip]
Can't think of much good to say about OE as a news reader.
>> 2. Xnews 03.04.11
>> http://xnews.3dnews.net
>
>Great program, but strange interface. But some people love it.
I didn't get it for the interface, but for the extremely
powerful filtering capabilities. Turns out the interface is flexible
enough to do things the way I want. Oh, and I prefer online readers
to offline ones.
>> 3. MicroPlanet Gravity 2.3b4
>> http://www.microplanet.com
>
>Quite powerful and good looking, but too complicated.
Haven't used it, so can't comment.
>> 4. Forté Agent 1.8
>> http://www.forteinc.com/agent/
I used it for about 6 months to give it a fair shake. It had some
serious shortcomings IMO:
1. Won't sort on arbitrary fields without breaking threading
2. Filters are stored in a proprietary file format
3. Not very friendly for online use (works much better as an offline
reader)
>> 5. Forté Free Agent 1.21
>> http://www.forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm
>
>Simple to use and with the most important features, but some of us
>needs more - Agent.
No filtering capabilities -- a crippling deficiency IMO.
--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_...@home.com (remove underscore)
URL: http://www.members.home.net/murraypeterson
Cameron
us...
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:24:26 +0200, WernerP <we...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Better use the combination Eudora+Agent, this gives you the overall
> > best solution (and you can use PGP as well)
>
> Yes, Eudora is real good, but too bloated for me, and it has serious
> problems with CE fonts (Agent works great with them). The only thing I
> _really_ like in Eudora is the way it's quoting text. You can break line
> anywhere and everything will be still right quoted. I wish it could
> display quotes in different color too (like Agent does). Otherwise Eudora
> is definitely the best mailer.
have a lot of mailboxes. Got to the stage that I got the "you have run
out of resources" message and I had!
Cameron
Bojan Pasic
wrote:
> I'd like to make one comment about IE 5 being the best browser
> ever, in the post above by Bojan. I have to humbly disagree for
> many reasons. It's very overbloated and buggy, full of Java
> script errors, and a space hog on the computer.
Overbloated - yes, buggy - not at all, when compared to Netscape and even
Opera. The main reason I've stopped using Opera 3 was constantly crashing
on some pages (especially when page was using Macromedia Director
contents). When one instance of IE crashes, other instances work normally
(it crash very rarely). Opera has MDI interface, and if one document crash
all others goes down too. But it is true, that Opera is very fast and
small. I will try it again when version 4.5 or so comes out.
> And it only consumes roughly 1.5 meg on the hard drive.
Opera 4.0 takes about 4 MB disk space (still much less than the others).
But this is without java and plug-ins.
> security. A recently discovered flaw in Outlook/Express which
> allowed vandals and hackers to take control of a PC simply by
> sending an email has M$ scurrying for patches.
True, Outlook is unsecure, but don't think that others aren't (I'm talking
about major programs, with html support and everything). Is just, that
Microsoft tell us about security holes in Outlook, but Netscape for
example doesn't. I stopped using Outlook mostly for other reasons, not
security (I've disabled all html and scripting functions anyway).
> Computer life has never been so good.
It was much better, when Amiga was still around (and it just might come
back, in the form of operating system). It was incredible how small
programs were on Amiga. Even Opera is bloated compared to them. And yes,
they were like progs in windows, just smaller and faster.
--
Bojan Pasic aka tha_man
bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si
Why doesn't DOS ever say "EXCELLENT command or filename"?
Bojan Pasic
> Have you tried IE 5.5 yet? It's a real pain, dials when you want to
I still have 5.0. It works real good, and I have disabled all 'nagging',
like this extremely annoying dialing fetish :-)
> work offline and is as slow as they come. It also slows down the
> loading of other applications.
That is true if you have less than 64 MB ram. On 32 MB it was soo slow, so
I've been using Opera, but with 64 MB it doesn't slow down my system. It
loads even faster than Opera, and is almost as fast as Opera in displaying
web pages.
Bojan Pasic
wrote:
> >> 2. Xnews 03.04.11
> >> http://xnews.3dnews.net
> >
> >Great program, but strange interface. But some people love it.
>
> I didn't get it for the interface, but for the extremely
> powerful filtering capabilities. Turns out the interface is flexible
> enough to do things the way I want. Oh, and I prefer online readers
> to offline ones.
I need offline capabilities. So Agent works much better for me. It is
definitely the best offline reader.
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk
<bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> wrote:
>
>> work offline and is as slow as they come. It also slows down the
>> loading of other applications.
>
>That is true if you have less than 64 MB ram. On 32 MB it was soo slow, so
>I've been using Opera, but with 64 MB it doesn't slow down my system. It
>loads even faster than Opera, and is almost as fast as Opera in displaying
>web pages.
Interesting but I have 128MB and it's slow - perhaps IE5.5 is
optimised for 64MB :)
Yeff
Ed<veg...@bigfoot.com> wrote in
news.software.readers:
> bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si (Bojan Pasic) wrote in
> <l185os4eto9iok8kd...@4ax.com>:
>
> >Overbloated - yes, buggy - not at all
>
> Tell that to my copy of OE. It likes to crash and has been know to take
> the database with it!
We've had these arguments over on alt.sys.pc-clone.dell and
the consensus seems to be that no two computers are alike.
Communicator has fits on my system but IE and OE are pretty
much stable. Other people with the same system as me say
the exact opposite.
I say find what you like and what works for you. In the end
that'll be the best one.
-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com
Bojan Pasic
> bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si (Bojan Pasic) wrote in
> <l185os4eto9iok8kd...@4ax.com>:
>
> >Overbloated - yes, buggy - not at all
>
> Tell that to my copy of OE. It likes to crash and has been know to take
> the database with it!
I was talking about Internet Explorer. OE is bloated too, but I don't know
about bugs. I haven't found any serious, but I've been using OE only for a
short period of time (less than a month).
Seth Williamson
dfsilb99...@aol.com.invalid says...
> My votes: News Rover, The Bat!, and Opera.
I agree about Opera. But Calypso is so far out front of other e-
mail programs, whatever's in second place is not even in sight.
I tried to test News Rover on my Windows 2000 and it won't even
retrieve newsgroups. From any server. And when I hit the
"cancel" button, it doesn't respond. It crashed and burned the
first time out.
My vote goes to Gravity for the best newsreader.
Tim S
>On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 11:42:59 +0200, Bojan Pasic
><bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> wrote:
>
>>
>>> work offline and is as slow as they come. It also slows down the
>>> loading of other applications.
>>
>>That is true if you have less than 64 MB ram. On 32 MB it was soo slow, so
>>I've been using Opera, but with 64 MB it doesn't slow down my system. It
>>loads even faster than Opera, and is almost as fast as Opera in displaying
>>web pages.
>
>Interesting but I have 128MB and it's slow - perhaps IE5.5 is
>optimised for 64MB :)
>
>
Used to be a Netscape,OE4 user now use IE5.5,OE5.5 and Agent.Tried
Opera 3.62 but too many bugs on my system.Love Agent for news,best of
the few I tried and OE5.5 is best for my meagre e-mail needs.Have
tried others Pegasus,Fox,Eudora but I'm just used to OE I
suppose.Maybe I'll try The Bat someday.
--
Tim S
August
||
|| My vote goes to Gravity for the best newsreader.
||
I second that.
--
August.
If you're too open minded, your brains will fall out.
Cameron
> Used to be a Netscape,OE4 user now use IE5.5,OE5.5 and Agent.Tried
> Opera 3.62 but too many bugs on my system.Love Agent for news,best of
> the few I tried and OE5.5 is best for my meagre e-mail needs.Have
> tried others Pegasus,Fox,Eudora but I'm just used to OE I
> suppose.Maybe I'll try The Bat someday.
>
[but Opera 3.62 when I need to use secure server because I have a problem
with ie5.5 doing this which I have been unable to solve]. I use Gravity
as the news reader because ..it's great! I use OE5 (not 5.5 because it
caused problems)because Eudora caused resource problems (a pity because
it was a good piece of kit). Maybe one day someone will produce an all-
in-one browser with the combined functions of IE/NS/Opera; the email
capabilities of Eudora etc and the news reader benefits of Gravity ..al
in 1.5Megs!!.....dream on
Cameron
Bob Somebody
>My vote goes to Gravity for the best newsreader.
I tried Gravity, but now I'm back to Agent and still looking for a
supported newsreader.
Gravity was OK, but was stubbornly cumbersome at times. And the message
management was only fair.
Mike V.
<bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> posted :
If you think OE is bloated, you should see that pig Outlook 2000.
That piece of crap is like a 100 meg full install with all the
features. Then it creates ost and pst files that are frigging huge.
My company switched over to it and I hate supporting it. It sux.
Mike V.
http://www.accesscom.com/~mikev/index.html
page me with ICQ:
http://www.mirabilis.com/863239
Daron Brewood
<321E1279FAE64C56.0EFE452C...@lp.airnews.net>,
sethwil...@THISswva.net says...
> But Calypso is so far out front of other e-
> mail programs, whatever's in second place is not even in sight.
>
--
Daron Brewood
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~aragorn
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~aragorn/PalmVx/psion_to_palm.htm
Bojan Pasic
> If you think OE is bloated, you should see that pig Outlook 2000.
> That piece of crap is like a 100 meg full install with all the
> features. Then it creates ost and pst files that are frigging huge.
I have installed Outlook 2000 once. Uninstall has followed after ~5
minutes (including windows and Outlook loading time :)
Arve Bersvendsen
>I need offline capabilities. So Agent works much better for me. It is
>definitely the best offline reader.
I have thrown away offline readers long ago, after discovering hamster
<URL:http://home.t-online.de/home/juergen.haible/>, as it is a small pop3/smtp/nntp-
server/client, which allows me to fetch newsgroups for "offline" reading, and still being able
to use an online reader, such as Xnews.
I have also fully automated fetching of both usenet news and mail, using the scripting-
capabilites of hamster in conjunction with the Windows task-scheduler.
--
Arve Bersvendsen - Usenet DoB: 19950918
Teksten over "-- " kan endres uten forutgående varsel
Arve Bersvendsen
>Do you have a URL for this?
Calypso can be downloaded at http://www.mcsdallas.com.
It is trialware and/or freeware.
If you just need 1 account it's free - if you need more you've got to pay $44.95 (i think)
Terry May
<sethwil...@THISswva.net> wrote:
>I agree about Opera. But Calypso is so far out front of other e-
>mail programs, whatever's in second place is not even in sight.
What does it offer over Becky 2?
--
"I saw a sign at a gas station. It said 'Help Wanted.' There was
another sign below it that said 'self service.' So I hired myself.
Then I made myself the boss. I gave myself a raise. I paid myself.
Then I quit." - Steven Wright
Charlie Gibbs
bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si (Bojan Pasic) writes:
>It was much better, when Amiga was still around (and it just might come
>back, in the form of operating system). It was incredible how small
>programs were on Amiga. Even Opera is bloated compared to them. And
>yes, they were like progs in windows, just smaller and faster.
To us diehards, the Amiga _is_ still around. And Thor, the news/mail
package I'm posting this from, is indeed pretty nice. (And I don't
have to worry about viruses! :-)
--
cgi...@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs)
Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply.
Bojan Pasic
wrote:
> I have thrown away offline readers long ago, after discovering hamster
> <URL:http://home.t-online.de/home/juergen.haible/>, as it is a small pop3/smtp/nntp-
> server/client, which allows me to fetch newsgroups for "offline" reading, and still being able
> to use an online reader, such as Xnews.
When using Hamster as a server, do I have to download message bodies too,
or can I first download just headers, then in (offline) newsreader select
which messages I'm interested in, and then download the bodies for this
messages. This is what I'm doing in Agent, and it is the only usable way
for me.
I can't download all messages, because I have to go offline as soon as
possible (else my parents are angry at the end of the month :-)
Zipper
wrote:
>What does it offer over Becky 2?
Don't know what it offers over Becky, but IMO one of Calypso's biggest
shortcomings is its lack of ability to import from OL2K.
It is a better programme, but with a 100MB PST file, I am stuck with
OL as I cannot get the messages into Calypso.
Bojan Pasic
> To us diehards, the Amiga _is_ still around.
Oh well. In Slovenia I _think_ there's ONE Amiga dealer somewhere. And
there's about 100 PC dealers. I think Amiga will die as a computer :-((,
because good old MC680x0 series is out, and I doubt that there will ever
be a PowerPC card with PPC G4 or on it (but maybe I'm wrong). The fact is
that PC hardware is much better and much cheaper as Amiga these days. The
only thing that I'm missing here is a decent OS (linux never impressed me,
and now it's just getting more and more bloated). New AmigaOS is very
promising, so I hope Amiga inc. will succeed and show microsoft and others
how it should be done. Until then ... WinUAE + Amiga In The Box :-)
> And Thor, the news/mail
> package I'm posting this from, is indeed pretty nice. (And I don't
> have to worry about viruses! :-)
Neither do I with Agent. But I kind of feel sorry for all Outlook users
out there (well, I am PC user, right? :-)
--
Bojan Pasic aka tha_man
bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si
What do you mean you "formated" the cat?!?
Arve Bersvendsen
>When using Hamster as a server, do I have to download message bodies
>too, or can I first download just headers, then in (offline) newsreader
>select which messages I'm interested in, and then download the bodies
>for this messages.
Sorry no - but I've actually found that fetching all bodies in one large batch _is_ quicker than
doing it the Agent-way.
It also has advanced filtering possibilities (SLRN-style score-file with regular
expressions) which allows me to kill certain kinds of posts in certain groups. Like I'm using it
to kill posts in one newsgroup that is crossposted to groups with names containing the
phrases "general" "psykologi" or "flame".
I could also use it to kill off posts with fewer than a specified number of lines. Or like in this
forum, posts with "NewsRover" in the subject.
>I can't download all messages, because I have to go offline as soon as
>possible (else my parents are angry at the end of the month :-)
If your country is anything like mine, you pay a connect fee for every call connected, in
addition to normal call charges. I have a lower number of connections every day - and thus I
save money.
Since the filtering capabilites are so much more powerful than those you have in Agent, you
should be able to economise with both time and money, after setting up your filters.
Unknown
Calypso, and import from Eudora? I am not that hot to use Calypso, but
if you really must have it, why not try? You could then delete Eudora.
On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:09:44 +0100, Zipper <zip...@nospam.clara.co.uk>
wrotg:
Bill Donaldson
law...@netzero.net
Bojan Pasic
wrote:
> If your country is anything like mine, you pay a connect fee for every call connected, in
> addition to normal call charges. I have a lower number of connections every day - and thus I
> save money.
> Since the filtering capabilites are so much more powerful than those you have in Agent, you
> should be able to economise with both time and money, after setting up your filters.
Hmm, I will try this. Maybe I'll even like it. Thanks for the tips.
de facto
previous version 3.xx. All the reported bugs are fixed. Yes,
it has more disk space than the previous versions, but it's even
more enhanced, and stll doesn't consume the disk space as M$ IE
5. Very very stable now, at least for me. Even the previous
versions of 3.xx with all the bugs (which all software has,
really) did circles around IE 5. It's even more polished
now. When you run Opera, it has already finished doing a lap,
when IE 5 is just getting out of the gate. What a great
browser. The interface and speed is astounding. Beautiful job
there -- Opera programmers.
All of M$ software is so overbloated it seems, and consequently
a bit sluggish. IE 5 is the perfect example. That's why I
dumped IE 5, and tried Opera, and loved it. This browser
sings.
As far as bloatware, another prime example is the new M$ Media
Player 7. I downloaded and installed it, and uninstalled it
after about 30 minutes later. It was nice, but too fluffy.
Nice okay features, but much too bloated and just too flashy.
I would love to see Opera programmers build a media player.
C'mon Opera -- the door is open.
Personally, I don't care for software that "does it all".
Performance is usually sacrificed. I'd much rather have
several stand-alone packages that are much more efficient in
performance and don't occupy huge disk space at the expense of
flash and fluff.
For MP3 playing and audio files, I have Winamp. I don't know
why anyone would even want to play MP3's with M$ Media Player.
All the great plug-ins that developers have made for Winamp
have brought multimedia to an awesome level. I can't even
begin to describe the truly *amazing* audio you get with
running DFX for Winamp, and also running a new plugin called
WOW. Holy cow. Those 2 plugins are out of this world. As
you can also run your music CD's under Winamp, your CD's will
never sound the same, ever. The sound is incredible. I don't
even use the standard CD Player that comes with Windows.
I just read about a new plugin for Winamp too.....that will play
all your video files. Now you can turn Winamp into a video
player. The combination of WOW, DFX, and now this video plugin
is the ultimate dream for multimedia.
Didn't mean to ramble, and a little off topic, but just giving
my 5 cents, plus a little more.
I can hardly wait for the next version of News Rover.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Stephen Chadfield
>The newer final version of Opera 4 is even greater than the
>previous version 3.xx. All the reported bugs are fixed. Yes,
>it has more disk space than the previous versions, but it's even
>more enhanced, and stll doesn't consume the disk space as M$ IE
>5. Very very stable now, at least for me. Even the previous
>versions of 3.xx with all the bugs (which all software has,
>really) did circles around IE 5. It's even more polished
>now. When you run Opera, it has already finished doing a lap,
>when IE 5 is just getting out of the gate. What a great
>browser. The interface and speed is astounding. Beautiful job
>there -- Opera programmers.
I tried the latest Opera. Frequent BSOD in Windows 2000.
--
Stephen Chadfield
http://www.chadfield.com/
de facto
as better? Thankfully not, at least for me.
Just a side note: this new audio format by M$ is supposed to be
a better-sounding quality than MP3 format. Sure, Media Player
can record your CD's, but only in their format. ( isn't that
just like M$ ?? ).
As far as better sounding, I can't comment. But playing CD's
and MP3's through Winamp with DFX and WOW! plugins is amazing.
It doesn't get any better. < Smile! >.
I can't wait to try the new video plugin. Thumbs up to the
software developers building these incredible plugins for
Winamp. This is one heck of a multimedia experience -- Winamp,
DFX, WOW!, and video for Winamp. < Huge smile! >.
And it's not bloated.
John De Hoog
>All of M$ software is so overbloated it seems, and consequently
>a bit sluggish. IE 5 is the perfect example. That's why I
>dumped IE 5, and tried Opera, and loved it. This browser
>sings.
It's easy to be light and fleet when you put the Java functions into a
separate package (which in itself is larger than all of MSIE) and when
you don't even bother with things like character set identification.
Here's a site I visit every day in MSIE. Try it out in Opera for some
fun:
In other words, to about half the world, Opera is plain useless. No
one would let MS get away with such nonsense.
--
John De Hoog http://dehoog.org
John De Hoog
>As far as bloatware, another prime example is the new M$ Media
>Player 7. I downloaded and installed it, and uninstalled it
>after about 30 minutes later. It was nice, but too fluffy.
>Nice okay features, but much too bloated and just too flashy.
>I would love to see Opera programmers build a media player.
>C'mon Opera -- the door is open.
Media players are already plentiful, and there's no way Opera could
get people to pay for them given all the free competition.
Laga Mahesa
de facto wrote as thus :
[SNIP]
> All of M$ software is so overbloated it seems, and consequently
> a bit sluggish. IE 5 is the perfect example. That's why I
> dumped IE 5, and tried Opera, and loved it. This browser
> sings.
Yes!
> As far as bloatware, another prime example is the new M$ Media
> Player 7. I downloaded and installed it, and uninstalled it
> after about 30 minutes later. It was nice, but too fluffy.
> Nice okay features, but much too bloated and just too flashy.
Ohh Yeess!
> Personally, I don't care for software that "does it all".
> Performance is usually sacrificed. I'd much rather have
> several stand-alone packages that are much more efficient in
> performance and don't occupy huge disk space at the expense of
> flash and fluff.
YessssSSSSS!!!
Unfortunately, in these dark times since E-Commerce began its quest to
destroy the Internet, we're not gonna get what we want.
Laga Mahesa
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=| Stone-D Software |=
=| Win98SE - Internet Explorer Removed |=
=| Remove "DISABUSE" to EMail me |=
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Tim S
<snip>
>
>As far as better sounding, I can't comment. But playing CD's
>and MP3's through Winamp with DFX and WOW! plugins is amazing.
>It doesn't get any better. < Smile! >.
>
Unless you by a proper separates hi fi system.
<snip>
--
Tim S
Richard Steiner
<moosens...@eastovershoe.net>
spake unto us, saying:
>But you forget that to most of the NG's that this is crossposted to
>that Bill Gates is the Devil himself and MS is spelled 666...... And
>any piece of out-of-date crap is better than M$. <G>
Are you suggesting that those things aren't true? ;-)
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> rste...@visi.com >>>---> Bloomington, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
I don't get ulcers ... but I'm a carrier. :-)
Laga Mahesa
de facto wrote as thus :
> As far as better sounding, I can't comment. But playing CD's
> and MP3's through Winamp with DFX and WOW! plugins is amazing.
> It doesn't get any better. < Smile! >.
Whether ASF is better sounding or not, its irrelevant in my opinion,
as the human ear ( or at least mine anyway ) can't tell the difference
beyond a certain point - this is of course barring dolby/thx etc.
I'm sticking with Winamp too - I've avoided MPlayer2 since it first
showed up with its internet bloatware stuffed up its rectum.
What an annoying process it was to select a bloody local file. Is it
still like that, showing the url field first in the file 'select'
dialog?
> I can't wait to try the new video plugin. Thumbs up to the
> software developers building these incredible plugins for
> Winamp. This is one heck of a multimedia experience -- Winamp,
> DFX, WOW!, and video for Winamp. < Huge smile! >.
Amen to that! I was wondering when Winamp would take the relatively
simple next step and incorporate mpeg video playback.
> And it's not bloated.
Hooray. :)
Charles Kincaid
<dmv1oso2apad239nf...@4ax.com>:
>On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:25:28 -0700, Terry May thought that we should
>read this:
>
>:>The biggest spammers of all the news readers, certainly.
>
>I didn't get that.
>
>Chirag
What Terry is refering to is that NewsRover advertises by posting usenet
messages with binary attachements promoting itself. These messages are
considered, by many, to be off topic.
ATB
Charles Kincaid
st...@tropheus.demon.co.uk
Kincaid) wrote:
>
>What Terry is refering to is that NewsRover advertises by posting usenet
>messages with binary attachements promoting itself. These messages are
>considered, by many, to be off topic.
>
I never get any NewsRover spam but my carefully developed Agent
filters probably kills them all :)
Steve
--
Steve Wolstenholme
Neural Network Applications for Windows
http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk
Herzog Zwei
it has 3 windows, like OE? i prefer gravitys 1 window.
>
> Yes. See the list of features at: http://www.newsrover.com/what.htm
>
> -Jeff B.
>
--
.
"When you're thinking of Giant Heads, think of the Big giant head!"
Herzog Zwei
> Here are my picks:
> -------------------
>
> 1. Microsoft Outlook Express 5.5
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/oe/
>
> 2. Xnews 03.04.11
> http://xnews.3dnews.net
>
> 3. MicroPlanet Gravity 2.3b4
> http://www.microplanet.com
i prefer gravity because of its extreme easy of use via the GUI, nice.
you can read multiple threads AND page down thru the msg bodies using 1
key (spacebar).
>
> 4. Forté Agent 1.8
> http://www.forteinc.com/agent/
>
> 5. Forté Free Agent 1.21
> http://www.forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm
Jonadab the Unsightly One
[Excessive crossposts trimmed.]
> I'd like to make one comment about IE 5 being the best browser
> ever, in the post above by Bojan. I have to humbly disagree for
> many reasons.
How about, it's *seriously* buggy, so buggy you think they
forgot to beta test it.
> full of Java script errors,
All browsers that support JavaScript are full of JavaScript
errors. The solution is to disable JavaScript, of course.
(Unfortunately in Mozilla this has the unwanted side effect
of also disabling stylesheets...)
> and a space hog on the computer.
I could forgive that, though.
> I never knew
> what Internet browsing *should* be like, until I got OPERA. It
> will drop your jaw. Whew!
I tried Opera, but it was missing a lot of major features
I wanted. That was a while back, and it's probably better
now, but I haven't gotten around to trying it again yet.
> Talk about fast?
Don't talk about fast, because if you think Opera is
fast you haven't seen a fast browser.
> Man. It's the most amazing browser, ever.
Thing I liked about Opera was the ability to customise
it fully -- disable things like unresizeable frames, for
example. Of course, I later found out W3 can do that
too, although it won't support things like images and fonts
until Emacs 21 comes out... unless you want to use XEmacs,
but I had trouble getting that installed right.
I still do most of my browsing in Navigator, but I
did dump Communicator and get the Navigator 4.08 standalone
to save disk space, since I don't use any of the other
parts of Communicator. (Messenger is just a joke.
Collabra doesn't work right offline and is missing some
other major features. What is Netcaster for, anyhow?
And Composer... well, I use psgml, which is many times
better than Composer.)
> One last point about M$ Outlook/Express.
[Valiantly resists the urge to write long
paragraphs explaining why OE is the worst
product MS has ever released.]
> If you really want an awesome email client,
> get The Bat! email client.
Haven't seen it, but I've been very pleased
with Pegasus.
> These e-mail worms cannot spread themselves with The Bat!, since
> it does not use the Microsoft Windows Address Book, and it has
> PGP support all versions.
Um, email viruses cannot spread with any half-decent
email client; certainly Pegasus Mail is immune to them.
(Unless, of course, you see an attached executable you
cannot identify and simply cannot resist the urge to
extract it and then run it... nothing short of a
telnet link to a shell account that sits behind a
firewall will stop THAT kind of idiocy.)
> I agree with Werner -- a really fantastic email client
> like Eudora (or The Bat!) gives the best
> security.
All decent email clients are secure. I'm sure
Eudora and Pegasus and pine are secure, for
example. I think even Messenger, lousy as it
is, is probably secure. The only client I know
about that is NOT secure is Outlook (well, and
OE, which is essentially another version of
the same thing).
> A recently discovered flaw in Outlook/Express which
> allowed vandals and hackers to take control of a PC simply by
> sending an email has M$ scurrying for patches.
Heh. Wouldn't be the first time a software
distributor had to scramble to get security
patches out.
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> True, Outlook is unsecure, but don't think that others aren't (I'm talking
> about major programs, with html support and everything).
Now you're just confused. Programs with HTML support are called
"web browser", and we were talking about email and usenet clients,
which aren't *supposed* to have anything to do with HTML.
Okay, okay, to be honest, Pegasus mail (the mailreader I use)
does have limited support for HTML, but it's done in a secure
way. It doesn't launch a browser (unless you tell it to do
so on purpose, which is your own lookout). It just displays
the content on the screen -- no executing any scripts it
might contain or anything like that. Actually, one of the
very few features I wish Pegasus Mail had that it doesn't is
the ability to filter the HTML tags *out* of HTML mails and
display them as plain text.
> Is just, that Microsoft tell us about security holes in
> Outlook, but Netscape for example doesn't.
All the security holes in Communicator are in the Java and
JavaScript engines. If you disable those, it's pretty secure.
> It was much better, when Amiga was still around
Amiga is still around. People are still developing software
on Amiga, in fact...
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> > (And I don't
> > have to worry about viruses! :-)
>
> Neither do I with Agent. But I kind of feel sorry for all Outlook users
> out there (well, I am PC user, right? :-)
OE users are not more to be pitied than clueless people in
general. Despite all the hype about viruses spreading on
the internet, the fastest way to guarantee you'll catch
a virus soon is still to start swapping removable disks
(floppies, Zip, CD-RW, whatever) with your friends on a
college campus.
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> All of M$ software is so overbloated it seems,
No, actually, Notepad is rather minimalist. (So of course
I deleted it and installed a real text editor or three...)
> As far as bloatware, another prime example is the new M$ Media
> Player 7. I downloaded and installed it, and uninstalled it
> after about 30 minutes later. It was nice, but too fluffy.
> Nice okay features, but much too bloated and just too flashy.
I don't have any use for most of the functionality
it provides. (I do play MIDI files, but I wanted
to have wincron automatically play certain ones at
certain times of day, so I went and downloaded a
player (specifically, YAMP) that can be called from
the command line with a playlist and will then
nonintrusively sit in the system tray and play all
the files on that list unless I tell it otherwise;
Media Player can't do that last I checked.)
> Personally, I don't care for software that "does it all".
> Performance is usually sacrificed.
Not if the design is sufficiently modular. Emacs is at
least as fast as Notepad (well, except when you first
start it, but it's designed to be started once and left
running forever -- the people who designed it use Unix,
so they don't reboot except when they migrate to new
hardware...) and it does *EVERYTHING*. (Almost literally.
It browses the web, reads mail and news, keeps track of
your appointments, manages your filesystem, brews coffee,
and generally does pretty much everything. People joke
about using it as an operating system.) The principle
is simple: "extra" functionality is provided in separate
modules that aren't loaded unless and until you need them.
This general principle can be applied to just about any
kind of software that has lots of features but needs
to still be fast.
> I'd much rather have
> several stand-alone packages that are much more efficient in
> performance and don't occupy huge disk space at the expense of
> flash and fluff.
Regarding internet software, I tend to agree. I use
separate clients for email, usenet, ftp, telnet, and
the web.
> For MP3 playing and audio files, I have Winamp. I don't know
> why anyone would even want to play MP3's with M$ Media Player.
Personally I don't comprehend why anyone would want to play
MP3 files at all.
> All the great plug-ins that developers have made for Winamp
> have brought multimedia to an awesome level. I can't even
> begin to describe the truly *amazing* audio you get with
> running DFX for Winamp, and also running a new plugin called
> WOW. Holy cow. Those 2 plugins are out of this world. As
> you can also run your music CD's under Winamp, your CD's will
> never sound the same, ever. The sound is incredible. I don't
> even use the standard CD Player that comes with Windows.
For playing CDs, I have (surprise) a CD player -- the
main advantage of which is that it is significantly more
portable than my computer. But the sound from my sound
card is at least as good, probably better if my ears were
up to hearing the difference. (I know my speakers are
better than the ones on the CD player, which doesn't
even have a subwoofer...) So why fill my hard drive with
a few minutes' worth of music when in a lot less space I
can put enough music to play around the clock without
repeating? The other main advantage of MIDI is that
because a MIDI file is for all intents and purposes
essentially sheet music, any music that has passed out
of copyright can usually be had free -- legally.
You can't do this with music from a CD, because even
if the music itself has been out of copyright for two
centuries the performers who made the recording for
the CD have copyrights on the performance. (And
recording technology isn't old enough for ANY to
have passed out of copyright yet, unless the holder
of the copyright voluntarily gave it up.) With MIDI,
the work is performed by your sound card at play time,
so this isn't a significant issue, and you only have
to consider the copyrights on the music itself for
the most part. (Yes, there are issues of arrangement
too, of course...)
> I just read about a new plugin for Winamp too.....
> that will play all your video files.
I don't have much use for those.
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> Yes, Eudora is real good, but too bloated for me, and it has serious
> problems with CE fonts (Agent works great with them).
What are CE fonts? A mailreader shouldn't be messing around
with fonts much, anyway; it should just use the font you
tell it to use (Andale Mono in my case) and have done.
> The only thing I
> _really_ like in Eudora is the way it's quoting text. You can break line
> anywhere and everything will be still right quoted.
Can it also correctly rewrap multiquoted text, like Emacs does?
> I wish it could
> display quotes in different color too (like Agent does).
Pegasus and Emacs do this. (Pegasus, unfortunately,
does not correctly rewrap quoted text. Shame, it does
everything else so well.)
> Otherwise Eudora is definitely the best mailer.
Eudora is a good mailer. I don't use it personally,
but from what I can tell it qualifies as a good mailer.
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> >I think that Internet explorer 5 is the best browser
> >available, but OE sucks BIG TIME. After lots of rude
> >words when using it (because it is so
>
> Have you tried IE 5.5 yet? It's a real pain, dials when
> you want to work offline and is as slow as they come. It
> also slows down the loading of other applications.
OTOH, 5.5 fixes some major bugs. Then again, sane people
who don't have to troubleshoot other people's web experience
may not notice bugs that have to do with printing... what
form of neurosis makes people want to print web pages, I
don't know, but WAY more than half of all people who come
into the library to use the internet feel the urge to print
things, and I have to troubleshoot. Mostly I solved the
worst of the problems by installing Navigator 4.08
standalone, but on one PC I couldn't do that (because the
staff are using Messenger (of all things) to check their
email (when they check it every three months or so...), and
Navigator 4.08 standalone can't peacefully coexist with
Communicator. (Every time the browser starts up you have
the option to select one of the profiles the staff use to
check their mail... not good.)) So we're stuck with IE on
that computer. Which is really annoying because it doesn't
have a print preview, which makes the patrons angry.)
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
[IE]
> loads even faster than Opera,
That's because it preloads itself at startup, then hides
until you "load" it. OSIAT.
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
>
> While I don't use agent, I'd lover to know how you kill the news rover
> spam. The subjects and posters are always differnt.
So filter on the the User-Agent (or X-Newsreader or
whatever) header, or whatever it takes. If you
absolutely have to, you could filter on the body.
This won't save your bandwidth, but it will at
least save your time. Or does your newsreader not
have full filtering abilities?
- jonadab
stephen...@spammenot.edu
Unsightly One) wrote:
>Bojan Pasic <bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> wrote:
>
>> True, Outlook is unsecure, but don't think that others aren't (I'm talking
>> about major programs, with html support and everything).
>
>Now you're just confused. Programs with HTML support are called
>"web browser", and we were talking about email and usenet clients,
>which aren't *supposed* to have anything to do with HTML.
Most of the popular email programs offer HTML support these
days. Outlook, OE, Eudora, Pegasus... It's part of natural
progression. Pretending it isn't happening, won't happen, shouldn't
happen, or can't happen is just ignoring reality.
--
Stephen Whitis
Email replies should go to...
scw120198 (at) whitis.com
The address in the header is not valid.
those who know me have no need of my name
>Most of the popular email programs offer HTML support these
>days. Outlook, OE, Eudora, Pegasus...
except that most of those progams are using the microsoft html control,
and are therefore subject to the same flaws as oe.
--
okay, have a sig then
Bojan Pasic
Unsightly One) wrote:
> All the security holes in Communicator are in the Java and
> JavaScript engines. If you disable those, it's pretty secure.
Pretty much the same with IE, except there you also have ActiveX, which is
better to leave disabled (or don't install it at all).
> Amiga is still around. People are still developing software
> on Amiga, in fact...
Yes, but there is just a few millions of Amigas on the whole world, which
couldn't reall ybe compared with the amount of e.g. PCs or Macintoshes.
--
Bojan Pasic aka tha_man
bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si
I am become Death, the Destroyer of worlds Oppenheimer
Bojan Pasic
Unsightly One) wrote:
> Bojan Pasic <bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> wrote:
>
> > Yes, Eudora is real good, but too bloated for me, and it has serious
> > problems with CE fonts (Agent works great with them).
>
> What are CE fonts? A mailreader shouldn't be messing around
> with fonts much, anyway; it should just use the font you
> tell it to use (Andale Mono in my case) and have done.
CE - Central Europe. Infact it has real problems with Latin2 code page, so
it's quite unusable for me.
> > The only thing I
> > _really_ like in Eudora is the way it's quoting text. You can break line
> > anywhere and everything will be still right quoted.
>
> Can it also correctly rewrap multiquoted text, like Emacs does?
I'm not quite sure what you mean (I've never used Emacs). You can break
quoted text anywhere, even when it is quoted multiple times, and
everything will be as it is supposed to be. I think that's probably what
you want.
> > I wish it could
> > display quotes in different color too (like Agent does).
>
> Pegasus and Emacs do this. (Pegasus, unfortunately,
> does not correctly rewrap quoted text. Shame, it does
> everything else so well.)
Recently I've found The Bat, which is very cool program (small and fast),
and it has the best editor I've ever seen. Clickable links, quoted text in
different color (or even bold), it works similiar to Eudora when breaking
quoted text... And it is simple to use. My email client of choice.
It is here: www.ritlabs.com
> Eudora is a good mailer. I don't use it personally,
> but from what I can tell it qualifies as a good mailer.
Now I think The Bat is better.
Bojan Pasic
Unsightly One) wrote:
> Bojan Pasic <bojan...@EAT.THIScampus.fri.uni-lj.si> wrote:
>
> [IE]
> > loads even faster than Opera,
>
> That's because it preloads itself at startup, then hides
> until you "load" it. OSIAT.
Hmmm, yes, that's probably why it loads so fast. Btw., what means OSIAT?
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> Calypso can be downloaded at http://www.mcsdallas.com.
# Calypso stops the spread of viruses!
"This car comes with a steering wheel!"
# Auto Link automatically sends e-mail messages or transfers
# data files over the Internet. Auto Link is used by other
# IT applications whenever unattended operation is required.
"Also, this car has turn signals and running lights to
help you get along with other cars in traffic!"
Seriously, any email system that has to advertise
features like that... I don't know but what Maybe
it's just their advertising department... but
*something* is very very wrong here.
- jonadab
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> Most of the popular email programs offer HTML support these
> days. Outlook, OE, Eudora, Pegasus... It's part of natural
> progression. Pretending it isn't happening, won't happen, shouldn't
> happen, or can't happen is just ignoring reality.
Good mailreaders (like Pegasus, for example) won't
let you *send* HTML unless you either write it by
hand or paste it in. Actually, you could also
use another app to magically generate it in
ready-to-send form... but that would require
another app. My point is that mailreaders are
not supposed to *send* HTML. The Outlook family
of clients is broken in this respect (not that
this is the only respect in which they're broken).
- jonadab
Secretly Cruel
> "Also, this car has turn signals and running lights to
> help you get along with other cars in traffic!"
>
> Seriously, any email system that has to advertise
> features like that... I don't know but what Maybe
> it's just their advertising department... but
> *something* is very very wrong here.
Advertising blurbs aside, Calypso is a kick-ass mail client.
--
___Secretly Cruel___
Email: secretlycruel at hillbillyhell dot org
"I'm dead, Jim." -DeForest Kelly, June 11, 1999
Jonadab the Unsightly One
> In other words, to about half the world, Opera is plain useless. No
> one would let MS get away with such nonsense.
Actually, I figure the other half of the world would
let them get away with it.
- jonadab