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Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet content
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Wally J
Dec 14, 2023, 5:55:17 PM12/14/23
to
Bad news for people who search before they post to Usenet:
<https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data
will still be supported as it is done today.
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
etc.
Is it something we said?
*Please complain to Google about their spamming of Usenet*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/hO4JNke1bNc>
--
Usenet is a team of intelligent old men working together for common good.
<https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data
will still be supported as it is done today.
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
<https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
etc.
Is it something we said?
*Please complain to Google about their spamming of Usenet*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/hO4JNke1bNc>
--
Usenet is a team of intelligent old men working together for common good.
The Doctor
Dec 14, 2023, 8:29:40 PM12/14/23
to
In article <ulg14i$3o4hi$1...@paganini.bofh.team>,
Good news for anti-abusers!
>--
>Usenet is a team of intelligent old men working together for common good.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com
>--
>Usenet is a team of intelligent old men working together for common good.
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nk.ca Ici doc...@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
Merry Christmas 2023 and Happy New year 2024 Beware https://mindspring.com
Julieta Shem
Dec 14, 2023, 8:57:03 PM12/14/23
to
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> writes:
> Bad news for people who search before they post to Usenet:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
>
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
> from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data
> will still be supported as it is done today.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>
> The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
> etc.
We got to provide solutions our ourselves. This is the USENET spirit
> Bad news for people who search before they post to Usenet:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
>
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
> from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data
> will still be supported as it is done today.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>
> The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
> etc.
--- by the people for the people (with a sufficient sense of capacity).
> Is it something we said?
> *Please complain to Google about their spamming of Usenet*
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/hO4JNke1bNc>
Tom Furie
Dec 14, 2023, 9:11:59 PM12/14/23
to
Julieta Shem <js...@yaxenu.org> writes:
>> The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
>> etc.
>
> We got to provide solutions our ourselves. This is the USENET spirit
> --- by the people for the people (with a sufficient sense of capacity).
There might be enough fragmentary archives around to form a "mostly
>> The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
>> etc.
>
> We got to provide solutions our ourselves. This is the USENET spirit
> --- by the people for the people (with a sufficient sense of capacity).
complete" set, but it'll take a lot of time and effort to unearth them
and coordinate their collation. For some reason I don't get the feeling
that Google will have much interest in releasing theirs.
Wally J
Dec 14, 2023, 10:20:06 PM12/14/23
to
Tom Furie <t...@furie.org.uk> wrote
> There might be enough fragmentary archives around to form a "mostly
> complete" set, but it'll take a lot of time and effort to unearth them
> and coordinate their collation. For some reason I don't get the feeling
> that Google will have much interest in releasing theirs.
There is the narkive which, if it actually worked, would fit the bill.
a. It has to be web searchable w/o need for a newsreader or account
b. Results must be readable by your mother or grandmother using a browser
c. It has to result in a URI to the thread and to the article
The "only" one I know of (which sucks, by the way), is this one:
<https://news.software.nntp.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
But, I repeat. It sucks. It's unreliable. Search doesn't work.
Last I had checked anyway...
Is there another current Usenet archive that meets the requirements?
--
The spirit of Usenet can live on if we resolve this new challenge.
> There might be enough fragmentary archives around to form a "mostly
> complete" set, but it'll take a lot of time and effort to unearth them
> and coordinate their collation. For some reason I don't get the feeling
> that Google will have much interest in releasing theirs.
a. It has to be web searchable w/o need for a newsreader or account
b. Results must be readable by your mother or grandmother using a browser
c. It has to result in a URI to the thread and to the article
The "only" one I know of (which sucks, by the way), is this one:
<https://news.software.nntp.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
But, I repeat. It sucks. It's unreliable. Search doesn't work.
Last I had checked anyway...
Is there another current Usenet archive that meets the requirements?
--
The spirit of Usenet can live on if we resolve this new challenge.
The Doctor
Dec 14, 2023, 11:22:55 PM12/14/23
to
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 2:56:21 AM12/15/23
to
Am 14.12.2023 um 18:55:14 Uhr schrieb Wally J:
> Bad news for people who search before they post to Usenet:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
>
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>
> The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
Didn't it stop working long time ago?
> Bad news for people who search before they post to Usenet:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
>
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
> content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
> historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>
> The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
> Is it something we said?
Be happy that they decided to keep the old content instead of
completely vanishing it and destroying millions of messages with
knowledge from the past.
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 3:00:26 AM12/15/23
to
Am 14.12.2023 um 22:56:56 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
> We got to provide solutions our ourselves.
Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
> We got to provide solutions our ourselves.
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 3:01:24 AM12/15/23
to
Am 14.12.2023 um 23:19:59 Uhr schrieb Wally J:
> There is the narkive which, if it actually worked, would fit the bill.
Although that doesn't include stuff from the 80s/90s.
> There is the narkive which, if it actually worked, would fit the bill.
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 7:04:31 AM12/15/23
to
Am 15.12.2023 um 21:54:27 Uhr schrieb noel:
> If you want web interfaces go run a forum.
>
> dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's because
> the more who found it abused it.
There is no need to have a posting opportunity there.
But those web interfaces make it possible to find content via regular
search engines.
Or do you know a Usenet search engine that can query NNTP servers?
>
> dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's because
> the more who found it abused it.
There is no need to have a posting opportunity there.
But those web interfaces make it possible to find content via regular
search engines.
Or do you know a Usenet search engine that can query NNTP servers?
Julieta Shem
Dec 15, 2023, 8:40:53 AM12/15/23
to
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> writes:
> Tom Furie <t...@furie.org.uk> wrote
>
>> There might be enough fragmentary archives around to form a "mostly
>> complete" set, but it'll take a lot of time and effort to unearth them
>> and coordinate their collation. For some reason I don't get the feeling
>> that Google will have much interest in releasing theirs.
>
> There is the narkive which, if it actually worked, would fit the bill.
> a. It has to be web searchable w/o need for a newsreader or account
> b. Results must be readable by your mother or grandmother using a browser
> c. It has to result in a URI to the thread and to the article
>
> The "only" one I know of (which sucks, by the way), is this one:
> <https://news.software.nntp.narkive.com>
> <https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
> <https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
>
> But, I repeat. It sucks. It's unreliable. Search doesn't work.
> Last I had checked anyway...
The address
> Tom Furie <t...@furie.org.uk> wrote
>
>> There might be enough fragmentary archives around to form a "mostly
>> complete" set, but it'll take a lot of time and effort to unearth them
>> and coordinate their collation. For some reason I don't get the feeling
>> that Google will have much interest in releasing theirs.
>
> There is the narkive which, if it actually worked, would fit the bill.
> a. It has to be web searchable w/o need for a newsreader or account
> b. Results must be readable by your mother or grandmother using a browser
> c. It has to result in a URI to the thread and to the article
>
> The "only" one I know of (which sucks, by the way), is this one:
> <https://news.software.nntp.narkive.com>
> <https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
> <https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
>
> But, I repeat. It sucks. It's unreliable. Search doesn't work.
> Last I had checked anyway...
https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com
loads with updated threads, but trying to read messages results in HTTP
505, meaning we have no idea what we're doing.
[...]
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 8:41:21 AM12/15/23
to
Am 15.12.2023 um 22:20:23 Uhr schrieb noel:
> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it
> survived just fine back in the say before search engines
Because there is a need to find information that has been posted months
or years ago.
That means that a search engine needs to be able to index it.
I don't know any search engine that queries NNTP.
> survived just fine back in the say before search engines
Because there is a need to find information that has been posted months
or years ago.
That means that a search engine needs to be able to index it.
I don't know any search engine that queries NNTP.
Julieta Shem
Dec 15, 2023, 9:05:06 AM12/15/23
to
noel <delet...@invalid.lan> writes:
[...]
> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
> just fine back in the say before search engines
That's an interesting point. It is perhaps a good idea not to display
anything on the web precisely so that we do not attract people with an
interest in seeing information displayed to a world such as the web.
For instance, if we display something on the web, the system might be of
interest to spammers.
Maybe we should keep the USENET as hidden from the world as possible.
This closedness might actually work as an invitation. The value of the
USENET is the value of the people in it. If we only invite technical
people, for instance, the USENET becomes attractive to whose interested
in such properties.
[...]
> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
> just fine back in the say before search engines
anything on the web precisely so that we do not attract people with an
interest in seeing information displayed to a world such as the web.
For instance, if we display something on the web, the system might be of
interest to spammers.
Maybe we should keep the USENET as hidden from the world as possible.
This closedness might actually work as an invitation. The value of the
USENET is the value of the people in it. If we only invite technical
people, for instance, the USENET becomes attractive to whose interested
in such properties.
Sn!pe
Dec 15, 2023, 9:05:39 AM12/15/23
to
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator
<snip...@gmail.com>
Google to end Usenet gateway - My pet rock Gordon just cheered.
<https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538>
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 9:10:05 AM12/15/23
to
Am 15.12.2023 um 10:40:48 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
> loads with updated threads, but trying to read messages results in
> HTTP 505, meaning we have no idea what we're doing.
Works for me:
> loads with updated threads, but trying to read messages results in
> HTTP 505, meaning we have no idea what we're doing.
https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com/3iYQhKhL/effective-february-15-2024-google-groups-will-no-longer-support-new-usenet-content
If it doesn't for you, contact the operator:
dav...@narkive.com
Julieta Shem
Dec 15, 2023, 9:29:42 AM12/15/23
to
Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
> Am 15.12.2023 um 10:40:48 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
>
>> loads with updated threads, but trying to read messages results in
>> HTTP 505, meaning we have no idea what we're doing.
>
> Works for me:
> https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com/3iYQhKhL/effective-february-15-2024-google-groups-will-no-longer-support-new-usenet-content
I found a thread that opens, but the first ones displaying today do not.
> Am 15.12.2023 um 10:40:48 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
>
>> loads with updated threads, but trying to read messages results in
>> HTTP 505, meaning we have no idea what we're doing.
>
> Works for me:
> https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com/3iYQhKhL/effective-february-15-2024-google-groups-will-no-longer-support-new-usenet-content
For instance, the address
https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com/XQDMkfhu/please-complain-to-google-about-their-spamming-of-usenet
loads fine. But
https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com/utLAtZzn/effective-february-15-2024-google-groups-will-no-longer-support-new-usenet-content#
does not. (The one you mentioned doesn't either.)
Richard Kettlewell
Dec 15, 2023, 9:34:05 AM12/15/23
to
Julieta Shem <js...@yaxenu.org> writes:
that has an audience and lacks sufficient controls to prevent it.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
> noel <delet...@invalid.lan> writes:
>> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
>> just fine back in the say before search engines
>
> That's an interesting point. It is perhaps a good idea not to display
> anything on the web precisely so that we do not attract people with an
> interest in seeing information displayed to a world such as the web.
> For instance, if we display something on the web, the system might be
> of interest to spammers.
Usenet had spam before it had a web presence. Spam will appear anywhere
>> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
>> just fine back in the say before search engines
>
> That's an interesting point. It is perhaps a good idea not to display
> anything on the web precisely so that we do not attract people with an
> interest in seeing information displayed to a world such as the web.
> For instance, if we display something on the web, the system might be
> of interest to spammers.
that has an audience and lacks sufficient controls to prevent it.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Grant Taylor
Dec 15, 2023, 10:32:10 AM12/15/23
to
On 12/15/23 08:04, Julieta Shem wrote:
> Maybe we should keep the USENET as hidden from the world as possible.
No. That is antithetical to the intentions of Usenet.
> Maybe we should keep the USENET as hidden from the world as possible.
--
Grant. . . .
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 10:59:06 AM12/15/23
to
In article <ulh0r3$1qodo$2...@dont-email.me>,
Google neds to pay $1 000 000 000 000 000 to every active
newserver on the planet for thier sheer incompetence!
newserver on the planet for thier sheer incompetence!
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 10:59:35 AM12/15/23
to
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 11:00:11 AM12/15/23
to
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 11:02:03 AM12/15/23
to
In article <657c3e73$1...@news.ausics.net>, noel <delet...@invalid.lan> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:00:23 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:00:23 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>
>If you want web interfaces go run a forum.
>
>dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's because the
>more who found it abused it.
Now username/password protection?
>
>dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's because the
>more who found it abused it.
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 11:02:19 AM12/15/23
to
In article <657c4487$1...@news.ausics.net>, noel <delet...@invalid.lan> wrote:
>Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
>just fine back in the say before search engines
Hear! Hear!!
>just fine back in the say before search engines
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 11:04:02 AM12/15/23
to
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 11:05:38 AM12/15/23
to
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 11:07:05 AM12/15/23
to
In article <wwvzfyb...@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>,
And now I have freeaks signing up thinking they have an aoutsystem.
>--
>https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
>--
>https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Adam H. Kerman
Dec 15, 2023, 1:36:29 PM12/15/23
to
I've cut the crosspost.
Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>Am 14.12.2023 um 18:55:14 Uhr schrieb Wally J:
>>Bad news for people who search before they post to Usenet:
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
>>Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>>Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>>content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>>historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>>The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
>Didn't it stop working long time ago?
At least a decade and a half ago, Google stopped maintaining the
indexes. Without indexing, searching is amazingly difficult.
Yeah. What is there to save the way Google Groups presented Usenet?
>>. . .
Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>Am 14.12.2023 um 18:55:14 Uhr schrieb Wally J:
>>Bad news for people who search before they post to Usenet:
>> <https://i.postimg.cc/tgQHDyjK/dejagoogle01.jpg>
>>Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>>Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new
>>content from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of
>>historical data will still be supported as it is done today.
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
>>The bad news is that this search engine "may" stop working soon.
>Didn't it stop working long time ago?
indexes. Without indexing, searching is amazingly difficult.
Yeah. What is there to save the way Google Groups presented Usenet?
>>. . .
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 2:48:33 PM12/15/23
to
Am 15.12.2023 um 11:29:37 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
> But
>
> https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com/utLAtZzn/effective-february-15-2024-google-groups-will-no-longer-support-new-usenet-content#
>
> does not. (The one you mentioned doesn't either.)
Works for me after solving the captcha.
> But
>
> https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com/utLAtZzn/effective-february-15-2024-google-groups-will-no-longer-support-new-usenet-content#
>
> does not. (The one you mentioned doesn't either.)
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 2:49:40 PM12/15/23
to
Am 15.12.2023 um 16:00:08 Uhr schrieb The Doctor:
> In article <ulh14h$1qodo$4...@dont-email.me>,
> Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
> >Am 14.12.2023 um 23:19:59 Uhr schrieb Wally J:
> >
> >> There is the narkive which, if it actually worked, would fit the
> >> bill.
> >
> >Although that doesn't include stuff from the 80s/90s.
> >
>
> So can Google give the archive over?
I don't think they will do that.
> In article <ulh14h$1qodo$4...@dont-email.me>,
> Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
> >Am 14.12.2023 um 23:19:59 Uhr schrieb Wally J:
> >
> >> There is the narkive which, if it actually worked, would fit the
> >> bill.
> >
> >Although that doesn't include stuff from the 80s/90s.
> >
>
> So can Google give the archive over?
I also don't know if peers maybe can access it via NNTP to suck all
the articles.
Marco Moock
Dec 15, 2023, 2:55:04 PM12/15/23
to
Am 15.12.2023 um 18:36:27 Uhr schrieb Adam H. Kerman:
> What is there to save the way Google Groups presented Usenet?
Web Gateways exist and the content can be indexed by normal search
> What is there to save the way Google Groups presented Usenet?
engines.
Andy Burns
Dec 15, 2023, 2:58:44 PM12/15/23
to
The Doctor wrote:
> Marco Moock wrote:
>
>> Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
>
> URL?
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
> Marco Moock wrote:
>
>> Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
>
> URL?
Adam H. Kerman
Dec 15, 2023, 3:01:40 PM12/15/23
to
be indexed and tagged. Using a typical search engine, if I'm looking for
a specific author, I'm more likely than not to get a hit on a followup
article quoting the author and not a Usenet article written by that
author.
Any search engine can index a library catalog card database but failing
to understand MARC21 format won't provide a helpful result.
Grant Taylor
Dec 15, 2023, 3:39:53 PM12/15/23
to
On 15/12/23 16:00 The Doctor:
But I wouldn't hold my breath that they will.
Or if they did, it would probably only be the archive that they received
from DeJa News and nothing since then.
On 12/15/23 13:49, Marco Moock wrote:
> I don't think they will do that.
Agreed.
> I also don't know if peers maybe can access it via NNTP to suck all
> the articles.
Almost certainly not.
This is where the vagaries and technicalities of NNTP vs NNRP come into
play.
NNTP is server to server feeding articles.
NNRP is client to server fetching and posting articles.
Often the protocols are mutually exclusive, partially out of security
(clients can't feed) and partially out of daemon simplicity (why have
NNRP stack in a pure NNTP server).
What's more is that in my experience, the ability to be a peer and use
NNTP to feed articles is often controlled by IP. As such, any
connections from said IP is automatically doesn't have access to NNRP,
and vice versa.
> So can Google give the archive over?
They probably could if they were so inclined.
But I wouldn't hold my breath that they will.
Or if they did, it would probably only be the archive that they received
from DeJa News and nothing since then.
On 12/15/23 13:49, Marco Moock wrote:
> I don't think they will do that.
> I also don't know if peers maybe can access it via NNTP to suck all
> the articles.
This is where the vagaries and technicalities of NNTP vs NNRP come into
play.
NNTP is server to server feeding articles.
NNRP is client to server fetching and posting articles.
Often the protocols are mutually exclusive, partially out of security
(clients can't feed) and partially out of daemon simplicity (why have
NNRP stack in a pure NNTP server).
What's more is that in my experience, the ability to be a peer and use
NNTP to feed articles is often controlled by IP. As such, any
connections from said IP is automatically doesn't have access to NNRP,
and vice versa.
Scott Dorsey
Dec 15, 2023, 4:33:40 PM12/15/23
to
>Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
>just fine back in the say before search engines
But it did not. Most of the early Usenet archives that were turned over
>just fine back in the say before search engines
to dejanews were a combination of files people had personally saved and
fragments of Henry Spencer's backup tapes from utzoo. A lot of it was
lost meaning that although there are many postings from before dejanews
was created, the selection is not random and they cannot be used for any
statistical analysis.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
The Doctor
Dec 15, 2023, 4:42:15 PM12/15/23
to
Wally J
Dec 15, 2023, 4:51:34 PM12/15/23
to
Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> wrote
> Works for me after solving the captcha.
Thanks for teaming up to help everyone & to find the narkive admin.
Please, can one or two of you test out the search feature of the narkive?
For me, with my privacy-based setup, I wish it worked better than it does.
But maybe that's only me - which - if that's the case - then it's fine.
(My browsers are generally set to be locked up for privacy reasons.)
But it doesn't matter if I can't search - it matters if you can search.
What matters is a search results in a reference URL to a thread or post.
To be perfectly clear, I don't know much about the narkive as I usually
defaulted to dejagoogle, except when there wasn't a Google archive, e.g.,
<https://alt.comp.software.firefox.narkive.com>
<https://alt.comp.software.thunderbird.narkive.com>
Unfortunately, only for "some" ngs are there any other archives, e.g.,
<https://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>
But for most newsgroups, the only archive I know of left is narkive.
As always to help the team with every action I take, I wrote a letter to
David (dav...@narkive.com) asking him to look at this thread and to perhaps
work with the experts here like Dave, Marco & Grant (et al.) to come up
with a solution that helps everyone search & reference old Usenet articles.
You guys are the ones who can get things done. I can only disseminate info.
--
Usenet is a way to team up with intelligent people who care about others.
> Works for me after solving the captcha.
Please, can one or two of you test out the search feature of the narkive?
For me, with my privacy-based setup, I wish it worked better than it does.
But maybe that's only me - which - if that's the case - then it's fine.
(My browsers are generally set to be locked up for privacy reasons.)
But it doesn't matter if I can't search - it matters if you can search.
What matters is a search results in a reference URL to a thread or post.
To be perfectly clear, I don't know much about the narkive as I usually
defaulted to dejagoogle, except when there wasn't a Google archive, e.g.,
<https://alt.comp.software.firefox.narkive.com>
<https://alt.comp.software.thunderbird.narkive.com>
Unfortunately, only for "some" ngs are there any other archives, e.g.,
<https://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>
But for most newsgroups, the only archive I know of left is narkive.
As always to help the team with every action I take, I wrote a letter to
David (dav...@narkive.com) asking him to look at this thread and to perhaps
work with the experts here like Dave, Marco & Grant (et al.) to come up
with a solution that helps everyone search & reference old Usenet articles.
You guys are the ones who can get things done. I can only disseminate info.
--
Usenet is a way to team up with intelligent people who care about others.
Sn!pe
Dec 15, 2023, 4:54:40 PM12/15/23
to
Wally J
Dec 15, 2023, 5:03:24 PM12/15/23
to
noel <delet...@invalid.lan> wrote
> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
> just fine back in the say before search engines
Aurgh.
> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it survived
> just fine back in the say before search engines
:)
Hi Noel,
You have to think differently. Big picture. Think of others. Not yourself.
Think of those others not being technical. They don't know what you know.
I can sense that you're likely a good person so I'm trying to be gentle
when I say there is tremendous utility to _others_ to be able to search
Usenet from today to its infancy on any platform using any web browser.
It's odd that people don't see the *utility* instantly, probably because
you know too much (not because you know too little); but let me tell you
Usenet *futility* instead, which everyone here (I'm sure) knows all about.
The futility of Usenet is it requires an account.
The futility of Usenet is it requires a newsreader of some type.
The futility of Usenet is it is (almost) never archived for long.
The futility of Usenet is that it requires knowledge to read for free.
The futility of Usenet is the search is only as good as your newsreader.
The futility of Usenet is you can't easily reference an article by URL.
(Sure, you can reference a message-id but you have to find it first)
Anyway, it's pretty irksome people don't get it that it's nice to be able
to search before posting and it's even nicer to be able to reference a
thread or article for a mother who doesn't even know how to spell Usenet.
Sigh.
In summary, there's utility for a web searchable read-only archive that
goes back to the olden days (if possible) which requires only a browser.
--
On Usenet, some people forget that they know more than the average person.
Wally J
Dec 15, 2023, 5:12:31 PM12/15/23
to
Richard Kettlewell <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote
> Usenet had spam before it had a web presence. Spam will appear anywhere
> that has an audience and lacks sufficient controls to prevent it.
Aurgh... :)
Some of you know too much such that you miss the real problem of the spam.
You have to look at this as a BIG PICTURE thing. Not as an expert thing.
For each and every one of us, we can implement filters (much as I did with
email in the procmail days) where, in decades of reading Usenet, even I
only had a half dozen people plonked (e.g., Snit, Sn!pe, Dustin, et al.).
Their garbage could be found on the dejagoogle archives if I ever wanted to
see it - but more importantly the *amount of spam* on the dejagoogle
archives recently multiplied from a few a day to 99.5% of the newsgroup.
e.g., <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
That 200 to 1 ratio is _easily_ filtered out by you who know how.
And it's even easier to filter out by Google (if they cared to filter it).
But "something happened" recently at Google.
Such that the amount is tremendous.
What does that mean to you?
Nothing.
You can filter it out.
But what does that mean to a dejagoogle web site that isn't filtering it?
HINT: *It makes the dejagoogle web search almost unusable*.
--
Especially as the dejagoogle web search wasn't all that good to start with.
> Usenet had spam before it had a web presence. Spam will appear anywhere
> that has an audience and lacks sufficient controls to prevent it.
Some of you know too much such that you miss the real problem of the spam.
You have to look at this as a BIG PICTURE thing. Not as an expert thing.
For each and every one of us, we can implement filters (much as I did with
email in the procmail days) where, in decades of reading Usenet, even I
only had a half dozen people plonked (e.g., Snit, Sn!pe, Dustin, et al.).
Their garbage could be found on the dejagoogle archives if I ever wanted to
see it - but more importantly the *amount of spam* on the dejagoogle
archives recently multiplied from a few a day to 99.5% of the newsgroup.
e.g., <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
That 200 to 1 ratio is _easily_ filtered out by you who know how.
And it's even easier to filter out by Google (if they cared to filter it).
But "something happened" recently at Google.
Such that the amount is tremendous.
What does that mean to you?
Nothing.
You can filter it out.
But what does that mean to a dejagoogle web site that isn't filtering it?
HINT: *It makes the dejagoogle web search almost unusable*.
--
Especially as the dejagoogle web search wasn't all that good to start with.
Wally J
Dec 15, 2023, 5:17:10 PM12/15/23
to
Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote
>> Maybe we should keep the USENET as hidden from the world as possible.
>
> No. That is antithetical to the intentions of Usenet.
I'm pretty sure she was being cleverly facetious, which I had appreciated.
What we _want_ is for Usenet content to be available to everyone.
And that was her point I believe.
We need to find an archive to pick up where dejagoogle left off.
If people can petition David at narkive, that may help us out.
>> Maybe we should keep the USENET as hidden from the world as possible.
>
> No. That is antithetical to the intentions of Usenet.
What we _want_ is for Usenet content to be available to everyone.
And that was her point I believe.
We need to find an archive to pick up where dejagoogle left off.
If people can petition David at narkive, that may help us out.
Blueshirt
Dec 15, 2023, 5:18:56 PM12/15/23
to
Wally J wrote:
>
> In summary, there's utility for a web searchable read-only archive
> that goes back to the olden days (if possible) which requires only
> a browser.
https://narkive.com/
>
> In summary, there's utility for a web searchable read-only archive
> that goes back to the olden days (if possible) which requires only
> a browser.
Wally J
Dec 15, 2023, 5:25:46 PM12/15/23
to
Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
>>> Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
>>
>> URL?
>
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
Ah. Nice. Thanks Andy. So that makes two that we know of now.
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.software.nntp>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.peering>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
and
<https://news.software.nntp.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
Are there others?
--
Usenet is a wonderful way to meet smart people on both sides of the Pond.
>>> Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
>>
>> URL?
>
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.software.nntp>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.peering>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.net-abuse.usenet>
and
<https://news.software.nntp.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
<https://news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.narkive.com>
Are there others?
--
Usenet is a wonderful way to meet smart people on both sides of the Pond.
Scott Dorsey
Dec 15, 2023, 5:34:20 PM12/15/23
to
In article <nnd$47644239$56aff236@ed594a78d9328f17>,
Again, it doesn't go back very far, that's the problem. This is great
for the future, but large chunks of the past have been lost for a while
due to google groups search brokenness, and they are going to be lost
even more completely.
for the future, but large chunks of the past have been lost for a while
due to google groups search brokenness, and they are going to be lost
even more completely.
Wally J
Dec 15, 2023, 6:16:42 PM12/15/23
to
Davide Cavion <lovesh...@narkive.com> wrote
> Hey! I'm the guy behind Narkive.
Thanks for returning my email, where the naysayers can note I only provided
you a URL - which is the only thing needed - which is the beauty of search.
> I agree with OP, my service kinda sucks.
Oh man. I am truly sorry for having said that. I apologize. The problem is
I don't know what you know. So, for example, I don't know how hard it is.
I will STOP saying it, as my way of atoning for having done that to you.
> My only excuse is that I spent
> most of 2022 rewriting the backend and was about a couple of months out
> from releasing something completely new when I had to drop everything
> to focus on a hardware startup (I tend to do this, but now my hands are
> tied and I can't just go the other way around).
Understood. I worked for startups in the Silicon Valley for decades.
Many here (e.g., Grant) know a lot more than I do I'll let them respond.
> Not sure what I'm trying to achieve in sending this message, but I hope
> this explain what the situation is with narkive.
To me, the priority, as I see it, for the most good, is the search engine.
> Hey! I'm the guy behind Narkive.
Thanks for returning my email, where the naysayers can note I only provided
you a URL - which is the only thing needed - which is the beauty of search.
> I agree with OP, my service kinda sucks.
Oh man. I am truly sorry for having said that. I apologize. The problem is
I don't know what you know. So, for example, I don't know how hard it is.
I will STOP saying it, as my way of atoning for having done that to you.
> My only excuse is that I spent
> most of 2022 rewriting the backend and was about a couple of months out
> from releasing something completely new when I had to drop everything
> to focus on a hardware startup (I tend to do this, but now my hands are
> tied and I can't just go the other way around).
Understood. I worked for startups in the Silicon Valley for decades.
Many here (e.g., Grant) know a lot more than I do I'll let them respond.
> Not sure what I'm trying to achieve in sending this message, but I hope
> this explain what the situation is with narkive.
To me, the priority, as I see it, for the most good, is the search engine.
Wally J
Dec 15, 2023, 6:23:43 PM12/15/23
to
Wally J <walte...@invalid.nospam> wrote
> Many here (e.g., Grant) know a lot more than I do I'll let them respond.
newsreader, my scripts are telnet hacks) so I am re-posting Davide's
original so that the other two groups can respond to what he said.
I'll step out of this subthread as a proper response should come from those
who are experts and I'm pretty much a putz at dealing with Usenet at this
high level.
From: Davide Cavion <lovesh...@narkive.com>
Newsgroups: news.admin.peering
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 23:45:22 +0100
Message-ID: <2023121523452261...@narkive.com>
References: <ulg14i$3o4hi$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
Subject: Re: Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet content
Hey! I'm the guy behind Narkive.
I agree with OP, my service kinda sucks. My only excuse is that I spent
then should be integrated at some point (I think the bulk of them might
be available from archive.org).
- I removed the search functionality because it was broken more often
than not and would lead to a bad user experience. I did almost finish a
search redesign based around a cluster of servers running Vespa (which
means ANN vector search + BM25, and would have been pretty much state
of the art), but again, other stuff got in the way and those servers I
bought for the job are currently sitting idle.
- The posting functionality is something that exists and should be
fairly stable and user friendly, but that I disabled because I gave up
on limiting spam coming from it. People were abusing it and doing so
manually, slowly circumventing the measures I had in place to avoid it
from happening.
Now I'm stuck between two choices: (1) is to do nothing (as I'm just
that busy) and (2) is to apply the minimum level of changes narkive
needs to maybe be ugly, still, but somewhat usable.
I could re-enable signups, posting, and maybe look into re-idexing the
content for search once, rather than in real time (using the old,
unstable search system rather than one I was rewriting). The only issue
being that if I'm successfully, I will have won even more work to do.
Not sure what I'm trying to achieve in sending this message, but I hope
this explain what the situation is with narkive.
Davide
> Many here (e.g., Grant) know a lot more than I do I'll let them respond.
> To me, the priority, as I see it, for the most good, is the search engine.
I belatedly realized I responded to the three groups (I don't use a
newsreader, my scripts are telnet hacks) so I am re-posting Davide's
original so that the other two groups can respond to what he said.
I'll step out of this subthread as a proper response should come from those
who are experts and I'm pretty much a putz at dealing with Usenet at this
high level.
From: Davide Cavion <lovesh...@narkive.com>
Newsgroups: news.admin.peering
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 23:45:22 +0100
Message-ID: <2023121523452261...@narkive.com>
References: <ulg14i$3o4hi$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
Subject: Re: Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet content
Hey! I'm the guy behind Narkive.
most of 2022 rewriting the backend and was about a couple of months out
from releasing something completely new when I had to drop everything
to focus on a hardware startup (I tend to do this, but now my hands are
tied and I can't just go the other way around).
- Narkive should have most posts from 2003 onwards, and the ones before
from releasing something completely new when I had to drop everything
to focus on a hardware startup (I tend to do this, but now my hands are
tied and I can't just go the other way around).
then should be integrated at some point (I think the bulk of them might
be available from archive.org).
- I removed the search functionality because it was broken more often
than not and would lead to a bad user experience. I did almost finish a
search redesign based around a cluster of servers running Vespa (which
means ANN vector search + BM25, and would have been pretty much state
of the art), but again, other stuff got in the way and those servers I
bought for the job are currently sitting idle.
- The posting functionality is something that exists and should be
fairly stable and user friendly, but that I disabled because I gave up
on limiting spam coming from it. People were abusing it and doing so
manually, slowly circumventing the measures I had in place to avoid it
from happening.
Now I'm stuck between two choices: (1) is to do nothing (as I'm just
that busy) and (2) is to apply the minimum level of changes narkive
needs to maybe be ugly, still, but somewhat usable.
I could re-enable signups, posting, and maybe look into re-idexing the
content for search once, rather than in real time (using the old,
unstable search system rather than one I was rewriting). The only issue
being that if I'm successfully, I will have won even more work to do.
Not sure what I'm trying to achieve in sending this message, but I hope
this explain what the situation is with narkive.
candycanearter07
Dec 15, 2023, 10:29:47 PM12/15/23
to
have their own archives that go back pretty far:
https://lists.eyrie.org/pipermail/racc/
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
Sn!pe
Dec 15, 2023, 11:19:17 PM12/15/23
to
groups with 10+ years retention and good completeness (Giganews claims
20 years). Astraweb and others offer inexpensive non-expiring block
accounts; even a small block will last a very long time if used for text
only. Being binary servers they're not quite as "snappy" as a dedicated
text server but I find that acceptable. I don't know how searchable
they are.
Scott Dorsey
Dec 16, 2023, 7:16:13 AM12/16/23
to
candycanearter07 <n...@thanks.net> wrote:
>On 12/15/23 16:34, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In article <nnd$47644239$56aff236@ed594a78d9328f17>,
>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Wally J wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In summary, there's utility for a web searchable read-only archive
>>>> that goes back to the olden days (if possible) which requires only
>>>> a browser.
>>>
>>> https://narkive.com/
>>
>> Again, it doesn't go back very far, that's the problem. This is great
>> for the future, but large chunks of the past have been lost for a while
>> due to google groups search brokenness, and they are going to be lost
>> even more completely.
>
>On 12/15/23 16:34, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In article <nnd$47644239$56aff236@ed594a78d9328f17>,
>> Blueshirt <blue...@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Wally J wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In summary, there's utility for a web searchable read-only archive
>>>> that goes back to the olden days (if possible) which requires only
>>>> a browser.
>>>
>>> https://narkive.com/
>>
>> Again, it doesn't go back very far, that's the problem. This is great
>> for the future, but large chunks of the past have been lost for a while
>> due to google groups search brokenness, and they are going to be lost
>> even more completely.
>
>At the very least, a couple newsgroups (like rec.arts.comics.creative)
>have their own archives that go back pretty far:
>https://lists.eyrie.org/pipermail/racc/
Yes. talk.bizarre used to have one of those, but we packed the hard drive
>have their own archives that go back pretty far:
>https://lists.eyrie.org/pipermail/racc/
up and shipped it to Dejanews. It was 1G of material so I am not sure
anyone was ever able to keep a backup of it.
Julien ÉLIE
Dec 16, 2023, 10:38:55 AM12/16/23
to
Hi all,
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
of dots in the name of the group), and the show would go on, but I doubt
it would really be good for Usenet.
Let's encourage people to use better news clients and news servers :)
> Viewing and searching of historical data
> will still be supported as it is done today.
... until Google announces they discontinue this service (and justifies
it in a few years because of broken searches and the fact that the
archives are not complete as they have stopped in 2024).
We should then ensure to keep several copies of historical data, as some
people here have already begun to do.
FWIW, https://olduse.net/ also has interesting historical data.
--
Julien ÉLIE
« Affirmanti incumbit probatio. »
> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
> from Usenet peers will not appear.
One could create gatewayed genuine Google groups (using dashes instead
> from Usenet peers will not appear.
of dots in the name of the group), and the show would go on, but I doubt
it would really be good for Usenet.
Let's encourage people to use better news clients and news servers :)
> Viewing and searching of historical data
> will still be supported as it is done today.
it in a few years because of broken searches and the fact that the
archives are not complete as they have stopped in 2024).
We should then ensure to keep several copies of historical data, as some
people here have already begun to do.
FWIW, https://olduse.net/ also has interesting historical data.
--
Julien ÉLIE
« Affirmanti incumbit probatio. »
Frank Slootweg
Dec 16, 2023, 11:35:02 AM12/16/23
to
had a reason to look at it. Google's stunt of course changed that.
The <https://olduse.net/> page points to <https://article.olduse.net/>
which offers to "Look up old usenet articles by Message-ID".
And lo and behold I can lookup my February 24, 1989 article which I've
used as and example in these recent threads (No, to preserve my privacy
and those of others, I still won't give the URL.)
I like the CRT terminal like, low resolution, shades of yellow,
display in 'source' format! :-) Well done!
The Doctor
Dec 16, 2023, 11:38:41 AM12/16/23
to
In article <ulkgae$1atim$2...@news.trigofacile.com>,
>
>> Viewing and searching of historical data
>> will still be supported as it is done today.
>
>... until Google announces they discontinue this service (and justifies
>it in a few years because of broken searches and the fact that the
>archives are not complete as they have stopped in 2024).
>
>We should then ensure to keep several copies of historical data, as some
>people here have already begun to do.
>FWIW, https://olduse.net/ also has interesting historical data.
>
Merci!
>--
>Julien ÉLIE
>
>« Affirmanti incumbit probatio. »
Julien à LIE <iul...@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
>> from Usenet peers will not appear.
>
>One could create gatewayed genuine Google groups (using dashes instead
>of dots in the name of the group), and the show would go on, but I doubt
>it would really be good for Usenet.
>Let's encourage people to use better news clients and news servers :)
>
Yes!!
>Hi all,
>
>> Effective February 15, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new
>> Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new content
>> from Usenet peers will not appear.
>
>One could create gatewayed genuine Google groups (using dashes instead
>of dots in the name of the group), and the show would go on, but I doubt
>it would really be good for Usenet.
>Let's encourage people to use better news clients and news servers :)
>
>
>> Viewing and searching of historical data
>> will still be supported as it is done today.
>
>... until Google announces they discontinue this service (and justifies
>it in a few years because of broken searches and the fact that the
>archives are not complete as they have stopped in 2024).
>
>We should then ensure to keep several copies of historical data, as some
>people here have already begun to do.
>FWIW, https://olduse.net/ also has interesting historical data.
>
>--
>Julien ÉLIE
>
>« Affirmanti incumbit probatio. »
The Doctor
Dec 16, 2023, 11:39:02 AM12/16/23
to
In article <ulkn37...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>,
Google+ was better managed than Google Groups!
candycanearter07
Dec 16, 2023, 12:50:21 PM12/16/23
to
Tom Furie
Dec 16, 2023, 1:24:46 PM12/16/23
to
> Shipped it? Like, the entire HDD?
Back then, a gig was a *lot* to transfer over the wire - especially to a
remote site. Sending the physical drive was probably quicker, cheaper,
and more efficient.
Scott Dorsey
Dec 16, 2023, 2:31:08 PM12/16/23
to
>Shipped it? Like, the entire HDD?
Yes. We didn't have any tape drive capable of tarring a whole 1GB up,
and it would have taken months to ftp it. So it was put in a box and
shipped to Deja and they had everything in their database within a few
weeks.
Don
Dec 16, 2023, 2:56:36 PM12/16/23
to
Marco Moock wrote:
> schrieb noel:
>> Marco Moock wrote:
>> > schrieb noel:
>> >> Marco Moock wrote:
>> >> > schrieb Julieta Shem:
>> >> >
>> >> >> We got to provide solutions our ourselves.
>> >>
>> >> dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's
>> >> because the more who found it abused it.
>> >
>> > There is no need to have a posting opportunity there.
>> > But those web interfaces make it possible to find content via
>> > regular search engines.
>> > Or do you know a Usenet search engine that can query NNTP servers?
> or years ago.
>
> That means that a search engine needs to be able to index it.
> I don't know any search engine that queries NNTP.
My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
(except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
find . | xargs grep -l '@crcomp.net' | xargs grep 'braid'
reliably returns articles apparently lost by google along the way.
Danke,
--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.
> schrieb noel:
>> Marco Moock wrote:
>> > schrieb noel:
>> >> Marco Moock wrote:
>> >> > schrieb Julieta Shem:
>> >> >
>> >> >> We got to provide solutions our ourselves.
>> >> >
>> >> > Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid
>> >> > light?
>> >>
>> >> If you want web interfaces go run a forum.
>> >> > Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid
>> >> > light?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's
>> >> because the more who found it abused it.
>> >
>> > There is no need to have a posting opportunity there.
>> > But those web interfaces make it possible to find content via
>> > regular search engines.
>> > Or do you know a Usenet search engine that can query NNTP servers?
>>
>> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it
>> survived just fine back in the say before search engines
>
> Because there is a need to find information that has been posted months
>> Why would you want the content archived outside of usenet, it
>> survived just fine back in the say before search engines
>
> or years ago.
>
> That means that a search engine needs to be able to index it.
> I don't know any search engine that queries NNTP.
My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
(except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
find . | xargs grep -l '@crcomp.net' | xargs grep 'braid'
reliably returns articles apparently lost by google along the way.
Danke,
--
Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.
Marco Moock
Dec 16, 2023, 2:59:47 PM12/16/23
to
Am 16.12.2023 um 19:56:34 Uhr schrieb Don:
> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
Would you like to make that archive public?
> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
Grant Taylor
Dec 16, 2023, 3:31:01 PM12/16/23
to
On 12/16/23 13:56, Don wrote:
> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>
> find . | xargs grep -l '@crcomp.net' | xargs grep 'braid'
I occasionally do similar with my private news server.
> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>
> find . | xargs grep -l '@crcomp.net' | xargs grep 'braid'
Though, on spinning rust, it takes quite a while to walk the 20 or so
million articles that my server has.
> reliably returns articles apparently lost by google along the way.
Don
Dec 16, 2023, 3:32:21 PM12/16/23
to
failure, despite the enormous resources available at its disposal.
Nonetheless, there's a silver lining. archive hosts a ton of
articles available to the public:
https://archive.org/details/usenet
Grant Taylor
Dec 16, 2023, 3:33:45 PM12/16/23
to
On 12/16/23 13:59, Marco Moock wrote:
> Would you like to make that archive public?
I won't make my private server public.
> Would you like to make that archive public?
But I will provide point-in-time copies of it's spool to people
generating an archive if they want it.
I should have a snapshot or another copy of my spool from within the
last year that still has messages posted from Google Groups. -- I've
gone through and removed them from my private server for ${REASONS}.
If you want a copy, email me directly and we can work something out.
I doubt that my ~5 years is worth uploading to archive.org. I fully
expect that someone else's archive supersedes mine.
Don
Dec 16, 2023, 3:57:51 PM12/16/23
to
Grant Taylor wrote:
> Don wrote:
>>
>> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>>
>> find . | xargs grep -l '@crcomp.net' | xargs grep 'braid'
>
> I occasionally do similar with my private news server.
>
> Though, on spinning rust, it takes quite a while to walk the 20 or so
> million articles that my server has.
Retrieval speed's proportional to pipeline protractedness - the more
> Don wrote:
>>
>> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>>
>> find . | xargs grep -l '@crcomp.net' | xargs grep 'braid'
>
> I occasionally do similar with my private news server.
>
> Though, on spinning rust, it takes quite a while to walk the 20 or so
> million articles that my server has.
unix pipes, the slower it goes. Nonetheless, it does return results in a
reasonably short period.
A proto-aphorism's been floating around in my mind for a while now.
Something along the lines of "information quality is proportional
to the length of time spent waiting for it."
For instance, an answer to a question posted on a maillist may take
a day or two to arrive. And the quality of the answer more than makes
the wait worthwhile.
OTOH the Western world loves, and pays for, instant gratification,
regardless of quality.
Scott Dorsey
Dec 16, 2023, 4:13:19 PM12/16/23
to
In article <2023...@crcomp.net>, Don <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>
>My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>(except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
How many decades? Does it predate the Renaming? If it goes back before
>
>My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>(except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
1990, would it be possible for me to get access to parts of it?
Don
Dec 16, 2023, 5:44:16 PM12/16/23
to
Scott Dorsey wrote:
people's spool archives available at <https://archive.org/details/usenet>,
as well as commercial content, was haphazardly imported many years
ago.
Since then, archive.org added a lot of new backups of old content.
It makes me want to re-build from scratch. Unfortunately, it takes months
to process tens/hundreds of millions of text files, one group at a time.
The hardest importation task is to sort things by Date: to ensure
the Xref: article number increases monotonically with Date:
Long story short, you probably won't get much mileage out of my spool
"as is." Any re-built spool is a different story.
> Don wrote:
>>
>>My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>>(except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>>decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>
> How many decades? Does it predate the Renaming? If it goes back before
> 1990, would it be possible for me to get access to parts of it?
AFAIK, articles only date back to approximately the year 2000. Other
>>
>>My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>>(except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>>decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>
> How many decades? Does it predate the Renaming? If it goes back before
> 1990, would it be possible for me to get access to parts of it?
people's spool archives available at <https://archive.org/details/usenet>,
as well as commercial content, was haphazardly imported many years
ago.
Since then, archive.org added a lot of new backups of old content.
It makes me want to re-build from scratch. Unfortunately, it takes months
to process tens/hundreds of millions of text files, one group at a time.
The hardest importation task is to sort things by Date: to ensure
the Xref: article number increases monotonically with Date:
Long story short, you probably won't get much mileage out of my spool
"as is." Any re-built spool is a different story.
Jesse Rehmer
Dec 16, 2023, 7:20:51 PM12/16/23
to
On Dec 16, 2023 at 3:13:17 PM CST, "Scott Dorsey" <Scott Dorsey> wrote:
> In article <2023...@crcomp.net>, Don <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>
> How many decades? Does it predate the Renaming? If it goes back before
> 1990, would it be possible for me to get access to parts of it?
> --scott
Thanks to another news admin who did the hard work, I was able to bring in the
> In article <2023...@crcomp.net>, Don <g...@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>> My server's private (for the time being). Article's aren't expired,
>> (except for ephemeral admin information). So my spool goes back
>> decades. And it turns out something along the lines of:
>
> How many decades? Does it predate the Renaming? If it goes back before
> 1990, would it be possible for me to get access to parts of it?
> --scott
net.* archives that predate the Great Renaming. I'm still working on archives
from the 90s.
Anyone is welcome to check out what I have on news.blueworldhosting.com
(https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com for more details).
The Doctor
Dec 16, 2023, 8:20:39 PM12/16/23
to
candycanearter07
Dec 16, 2023, 10:07:40 PM12/16/23
to
Marco Moock
Dec 17, 2023, 11:44:33 AM12/17/23
to
Am 18.12.2023 um 01:15:14 Uhr schrieb noel:
> Ohhh and for Marco, if your next excuse is short retention, then find
> a better server ;)
No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
find older stuff even when available there.
> Ohhh and for Marco, if your next excuse is short retention, then find
> a better server ;)
No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
find older stuff even when available there.
yeti
Dec 17, 2023, 1:12:40 PM12/17/23
to
Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
> No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
> 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
> find older stuff even when available there.
Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
> No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
> 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
> find older stuff even when available there.
--
I do not bite, I just want to play.
De ongekruisigde
Dec 17, 2023, 1:31:46 PM12/17/23
to
On 2023-12-17, yeti <ye...@tilde.institute> wrote:
> Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
>> No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
>> 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
>> find older stuff even when available there.
>
> Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
I've just downloaded all article (headers) for the nl.politiek
> Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
>> No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
>> 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
>> find older stuff even when available there.
>
> Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
group in slrn. Took a minute or so, for over a million articles.
Ray Banana
Dec 17, 2023, 1:47:41 PM12/17/23
to
Thus spake De ongekruisigde <verst...@news.eternal-september.org>
Please fix your From: header. You have no permission to use this
domain for your mail address.
--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org
Please fix your From: header. You have no permission to use this
domain for your mail address.
--
Пу́тін — хуйло́
https://www.eternal-september.org
Marco Moock
Dec 17, 2023, 1:59:48 PM12/17/23
to
Am 17.12.2023 um 18:12:33 Uhr schrieb yeti:
> Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
> > No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
> > 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I
> > can't find older stuff even when available there.
>
> Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
Do you know one?
> Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
> > No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
> > 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I
> > can't find older stuff even when available there.
>
> Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
at least its spool.
De ongekruisigde
Dec 17, 2023, 2:00:29 PM12/17/23
to
On 2023-12-17, Ray Banana <ray...@raybanana.net> wrote:
> Thus spake De ongekruisigde <verst...@news.eternal-september.org>
>
> Please fix your From: header. You have no permission to use this
> domain for your mail address.
Oops, sorry about that. It was the hostname setting in my slrnrc
> Thus spake De ongekruisigde <verst...@news.eternal-september.org>
>
> Please fix your From: header. You have no permission to use this
> domain for your mail address.
file (which I assumed had to be the usenet server's)
Ray Banana
Dec 17, 2023, 2:14:20 PM12/17/23
to
Thus spake Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de>
> Do you know one?
> I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
> at least its spool.
suck news.eternal-september.org -U /user/ -P /password/ -bf suckSpool
will download all articles to a local directory.
man suck.
> Do you know one?
> I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
> at least its spool.
will download all articles to a local directory.
man suck.
yeti
Dec 17, 2023, 2:29:06 PM12/17/23
to
Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
> I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
> at least its spool.
GNUS (and probably many other newsreaders) can do it.
> I tried suck, but that is intended to speak to a local news server or
> at least its spool.
Frank Slootweg
Dec 17, 2023, 2:55:09 PM12/17/23
to
suck.
As you mention suck, I assume your platform is Linux/Unix-like (I
didn't see a User-Agent: or similar header).
If so, the tin newsreader (which I use) can be a solution.
And for a local 'cache'/'proxy'/news-server/etc. you can use things
like slrnpull, Leafnode-2, etc..
I use Hamster, but that's a Windows program (might run on WINE, but
using Leafnode-2 is probably better/'cleaner').
Scott Dorsey
Dec 17, 2023, 5:34:23 PM12/17/23
to
In article <ulngf2$32jf9$1...@dont-email.me>,
What operating system, and what kind of UI do you prefer?
The Doctor
Dec 17, 2023, 7:39:06 PM12/17/23
to
In article <657f10f4$1...@news.ausics.net>, noel <delet...@invalid.lan> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 14:34:01 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Usenet had spam before it had a web presence. Spam will appear anywhere
>> that has an audience and lacks sufficient controls to prevent it.
>
>true, but google introduced an exponential increase
And that is abuse to no end!
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 14:34:01 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Usenet had spam before it had a web presence. Spam will appear anywhere
>> that has an audience and lacks sufficient controls to prevent it.
>
>true, but google introduced an exponential increase
And that is abuse to no end!
The Doctor
Dec 17, 2023, 7:39:40 PM12/17/23
to
In article <657f11ea$1...@news.ausics.net>, noel <delet...@invalid.lan> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:02:00 +0000, The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <657c3e73$1...@news.ausics.net>, noel <delet...@invalid.lan>
>> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:00:23 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>
>yes it had that, but the spam bots kept trying to get in at a monumental
>rate, captchas didnt exist back then, or not sane ones that someone as
>blind as Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder could even pass :)
No security all right!
>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 16:02:00 +0000, The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <657c3e73$1...@news.ausics.net>, noel <delet...@invalid.lan>
>> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:00:23 +0100, Marco Moock wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 14.12.2023 um 22:56:56 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
>>>>
>>>>> We got to provide solutions our ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
>>>
>>>If you want web interfaces go run a forum.
>>>
>>>dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's because the
>>>more who found it abused it.
>>
>> Now username/password protection?
>>>> Am 14.12.2023 um 22:56:56 Uhr schrieb Julieta Shem:
>>>>
>>>>> We got to provide solutions our ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody here want to host a web interface like rocksolid light?
>>>
>>>If you want web interfaces go run a forum.
>>>
>>>dnews has a web interface - I shut it down in the late 90's because the
>>>more who found it abused it.
>>
>
>yes it had that, but the spam bots kept trying to get in at a monumental
>rate, captchas didnt exist back then, or not sane ones that someone as
>blind as Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder could even pass :)
No security all right!
The Doctor
Dec 17, 2023, 7:39:58 PM12/17/23
to
In article <87a5q8i...@tilde.institute>,
>--
>I do not bite, I just want to play.
yeti <ye...@tilde.institute> wrote:
>Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
>> No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
>> 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
>> find older stuff even when available there.
>
>Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
>
GG is blocked from here!
>Marco Moock <mm+use...@dorfdsl.de> writes:
>
>> No, my next excuse is that my newsreader only supports downloading
>> 10000 articles from the server. It doesn't download more and so I can't
>> find older stuff even when available there.
>
>Then it is a toy. Get a tool instead.
>
>--
>I do not bite, I just want to play.
Tom Furie
Dec 17, 2023, 10:42:48 PM12/17/23
to
noel <delet...@invalid.lan> writes:
> Server Details, even in, ohh what was that windowsy thing... Trumpet or
> Trombone...
Well, you need *something* to push air down the windsock...
> Server Details, even in, ohh what was that windowsy thing... Trumpet or
> Trombone...
Well, you need *something* to push air down the windsock...
Retro Guy
Dec 18, 2023, 6:38:41 AM12/18/23
to
Sn!pe
Dec 18, 2023, 9:23:27 AM12/18/23
to
noel <delet...@invalid.lan> wrote:
[...]
> the controller had a catostrophic failure roytally roting
> teh raid disks too, and all was lost, so had to start again
[...]
That's lyrical, that is.
You could write an epic saga around those words.
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator
<snip...@gmail.com>
Google to close Usenet gateway; my pet rock Gordon cheered.
[...]
> the controller had a catostrophic failure roytally roting
> teh raid disks too, and all was lost, so had to start again
[...]
That's lyrical, that is.
You could write an epic saga around those words.
--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator
<snip...@gmail.com>
Google to close Usenet gateway; my pet rock Gordon cheered.
Wally J
Dec 19, 2023, 12:52:47 PM12/19/23
to
To further add value so that everyone benefits from every action...
Here's a table for netizens to put into their Usenet notes file:
(as always, please improve as we all know more together than alone).
WEB ARCHIVES (require no account, no software, all platforms, URL output)
a. DejaGoogle archives (no longer updated after February 2024)
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
b. Davide Cavion's Narkive (WIP)
<https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
c. Retro Guy's NovaBBS/RockSolid archive (3years/100K articles)
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.peering>
These are useful for those conscientious netizens who run a search before
they post a question or they reference an existing answer - and it will be
useful to forward (e.g., by email) a reference the non-Usenet citizen (like
your mom) to a useful Usenet thread or article (which they can read without
needing a newsreader or an account as it works on every platform browser).
To continue to add useful on-topic value with every post, there's also the
Message-ID archives (which most people know about, but perhaps not all).
<https://article.olduse.net/>
<http://al.howardknight.net>
For example, one can look up an article if they have the message id, e.g.,
Message-ID: <ulg14i$3o4hi$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
Message-ID: <2023121523452261...@narkive.com>
Message-ID: <245e50b032147b7b...@news.novabbs.com>
etc.
Bear in mind that the dejagoogle archives removed the message-id from the
header information years ago - but many of the other archives did not.
There are also other options for those who have an account on a server:
As always, please add value in every post so that everyone benefits.
Here's a table for netizens to put into their Usenet notes file:
(as always, please improve as we all know more together than alone).
WEB ARCHIVES (require no account, no software, all platforms, URL output)
a. DejaGoogle archives (no longer updated after February 2024)
<http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
b. Davide Cavion's Narkive (WIP)
<https://news.admin.peering.narkive.com>
c. Retro Guy's NovaBBS/RockSolid archive (3years/100K articles)
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=news.admin.peering>
These are useful for those conscientious netizens who run a search before
they post a question or they reference an existing answer - and it will be
useful to forward (e.g., by email) a reference the non-Usenet citizen (like
your mom) to a useful Usenet thread or article (which they can read without
needing a newsreader or an account as it works on every platform browser).
To continue to add useful on-topic value with every post, there's also the
Message-ID archives (which most people know about, but perhaps not all).
<https://article.olduse.net/>
<http://al.howardknight.net>
For example, one can look up an article if they have the message id, e.g.,
Message-ID: <ulg14i$3o4hi$1...@paganini.bofh.team>
Message-ID: <2023121523452261...@narkive.com>
Message-ID: <245e50b032147b7b...@news.novabbs.com>
etc.
Bear in mind that the dejagoogle archives removed the message-id from the
header information years ago - but many of the other archives did not.
There are also other options for those who have an account on a server:
suck news.eternal-september.org -U /user/ -P /password/ -bf suckSpool
--
As always, please add value in every post so that everyone benefits.
vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com
Dec 26, 2023, 8:36:30 PM12/26/23
to
Goon Ghule and NecroSmurf destroyed the usenet.
From vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com Wed Aug 17 21:40:24 2016
Path: reader2.panix.com!panix!not-for-mail
From: vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: sugg: a soc net style newsreader
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <np33lo$81b$1...@reader2.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com
X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1471484408 8235 166.84.1.2 (18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: ab...@panix.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: tin/2.2.1-20140504 ("Tober an Righ") (UNIX) (NetBSD/6.1.5 (i386))
Xref: panix news.software.readers:307819
I feel social networks and blogs risk monopolisation and censorship, force
conformity, use unnecessary resources, require too fancy software, and
fragment users. Usenet in the 1990s united the world. I was at an event
discussing crowdsourcing for science and folks lamented the demise of usenet.
I'd like to see a reader both online (accessible by lynx browser) and as
an app that looks and feels like a social network. It should most of all
notify you when somone replies to your posts and when your friends post. It
should let you rank (1-10) how important posts are and so decide what to show
you first. I had a celfon in 1990-2009. Dumped it. I really get annoyed when
they ask me for a celfon or to update my browser.
I think MS Outlook's downloading a use list of groups crippled usenet, and
Google has not maintained the deja news franchise (some stuff seems to have
disappeared). Also they did not maintain the hierarchy, which would have
better followed academic departments.
I also think the moderator fanaticism was crippling. You can use kill
files instead of depend on the whim of others. We should allow individuals to
control what they view, not others.
One special peeve is, since I work in fields where brainstorming is
important, I would crosspost to groups I wanted to bring together. But the
narrow minded would complain they didn't want to hear it. I've actually seen
a strong enough current of support for crossposting (now disabled by google
groups, BTW) on the grounds it was more efficient than multiple posts to
multiple groups.
I really do think the internet of the 1990s was freer. Too many search
engines try to control what you see. They even disable booleans. Maybe they
do it to try to be helpful, maybe they are doing it to protect paying
customers, I can't tell. I have an analogy in Otmar Mergenthaler's linotype
leading ot an explosion of press freedom and hence democracies (in places
like Iran, Russia, Germany) in the late 1800s. Of course we know what
happened, govt learned to control the press. Well, look around, same with
internet - maybe not here, but most places.
Remember the orig net was peer-to-peer. Now everyone seems to be logged
in from a server farm in Texas. So where's the "inter" in internet?
From vjp...@at.biostrategist.dot.dot.com Wed Aug 17 21:40:24 2016
Path: reader2.panix.com!panix!not-for-mail
From: vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: sugg: a soc net style newsreader
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <np33lo$81b$1...@reader2.panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com
X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1471484408 8235 166.84.1.2 (18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: ab...@panix.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:40:08 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: tin/2.2.1-20140504 ("Tober an Righ") (UNIX) (NetBSD/6.1.5 (i386))
Xref: panix news.software.readers:307819
I feel social networks and blogs risk monopolisation and censorship, force
conformity, use unnecessary resources, require too fancy software, and
fragment users. Usenet in the 1990s united the world. I was at an event
discussing crowdsourcing for science and folks lamented the demise of usenet.
I'd like to see a reader both online (accessible by lynx browser) and as
an app that looks and feels like a social network. It should most of all
notify you when somone replies to your posts and when your friends post. It
should let you rank (1-10) how important posts are and so decide what to show
you first. I had a celfon in 1990-2009. Dumped it. I really get annoyed when
they ask me for a celfon or to update my browser.
I think MS Outlook's downloading a use list of groups crippled usenet, and
Google has not maintained the deja news franchise (some stuff seems to have
disappeared). Also they did not maintain the hierarchy, which would have
better followed academic departments.
I also think the moderator fanaticism was crippling. You can use kill
files instead of depend on the whim of others. We should allow individuals to
control what they view, not others.
One special peeve is, since I work in fields where brainstorming is
important, I would crosspost to groups I wanted to bring together. But the
narrow minded would complain they didn't want to hear it. I've actually seen
a strong enough current of support for crossposting (now disabled by google
groups, BTW) on the grounds it was more efficient than multiple posts to
multiple groups.
I really do think the internet of the 1990s was freer. Too many search
engines try to control what you see. They even disable booleans. Maybe they
do it to try to be helpful, maybe they are doing it to protect paying
customers, I can't tell. I have an analogy in Otmar Mergenthaler's linotype
leading ot an explosion of press freedom and hence democracies (in places
like Iran, Russia, Germany) in the late 1800s. Of course we know what
happened, govt learned to control the press. Well, look around, same with
internet - maybe not here, but most places.
Remember the orig net was peer-to-peer. Now everyone seems to be logged
in from a server farm in Texas. So where's the "inter" in internet?
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