usenet news via satellite
Norman Gillaspie
This is an update for those interested in satellite communications and
data broadcast of computer information and PageSat Inc.'s satellite
delivered Usenet newsfeed.
Pagesat is providing a complete usenet news feed via satellite and
delivering over over 80Mg a day during high traffic periods.
The service is delivered over the K2 ku band satellite that provides
continental US (conus), southern Canada, and northern Mexico coverage.
A fairly complete description of the system is featured as a cover
story in the curent issue of Boradwatch magazine.
The service is currently being received by over 100 customers. These
customers include private individuals, newsgathering agencies (newspapers),
BBS's, and computer/communications systems providers.
The baud rate is 9600 Bps async thru a RS-232 interface to your computer
from the VSAT earth station.
The file format delivered is in approximately 100K byte uncompressed
batches that are written to your hard drive via PageSat's ingest software.
Software is availabe to place the batches on a unix hard disk computer and in
form suitable for Cnews and Bnews.
In DOS, software is provided that ingests and places the batches
in sequentially written files. These files are written in a user defined
directory and numbers with a *.bag (for mailbag) file extension.
For example, 0001.bag, 0002.bag, 0003.bad, etc.
Third party software is available that allows these file conventions to be
easily interfaced to various BBS systems. This software has been
certified for use with the PageSat system.
In Windows(tm) a program is available that runs in the background and filters
the newsgroups realtime. In this way only the groups you wish to receive are
stored on your hard drive. A simple reader is also provided.
A small 18" is provided along with the LNB, PCSAT 300(tm) Satellite
Receiver, UDI200 Modem and software. Other size dishes are avialble for
marginal weather areas.
If your phone lines are becoming to expensive, don't have a good
connection, or are receiving censored news, this may be the answer for you.
The system has been in continuous operation for a year with an exceptional
service record. It is delivered ready to run and is fully waranteed for 1
year from date of purchase.
The best news is that a complete system is as low as $1800.00 complete.
The satellite feed is FREE for 2 YEARS. After the initial 2 year period
there is a nominal service charge of $30.00 per month.
For more information email pag...@pagesat.com or d...@pagesat.com.
PageSat Inc. - "Bringing Satellite Data Down to Earth"
Duane J. Dubay
National Sales Manager
PageSat Inc.
992 San Antonio
Palo Alto , Ca 94303
415-424-0384
415-424-0405 fax
For information regarding Pagesat's Satellite delivered usenet news
mail info request to "pag...@pagesat.com" or call: 415-424-0384
.. Delivering 45+ megabytes of Usenet news each day via satellite
====================Now for Windows==18" Antenna =======
Wayne Smith
>A small 18" is provided along with the LNB, PCSAT 300(tm) Satellite
>Receiver, UDI200 Modem and software. Other size dishes are avialble for
>marginal weather areas.
>
>The satellite feed is FREE for 2 YEARS. After the initial 2 year period
>there is a nominal service charge of $30.00 per month.
What stops people from tuning in and receiving this stuff with their
own equipment? Is it scrambled or what?
Kenneth T. Smelcer
>data broadcast of computer information and PageSat Inc.'s satellite
>delivered Usenet newsfeed.
>
>Pagesat is providing a complete usenet news feed via satellite and
>delivering over over 80Mg a day during high traffic periods.
>The service is currently being received by over 100 customers. These
>customers include private individuals, newsgathering agencies (newspapers),
>BBS's, and computer/communications systems providers.
>The system has been in continuous operation for a year with an exceptional
>service record. It is delivered ready to run and is fully waranteed for 1
>year from date of purchase.
>PageSat Inc. - "Bringing Satellite Data Down to Earth"
>
>Duane J. Dubay
>National Sales Manager
I was wondering if any PageSat customers could comment on how well this
system works? Is it a 'read-only' feed, or is there some mechanism for
posting news via a dial-up link?
Hasn't this type of news-feed been around for a while? If memory serves,
this transport mechanism has been tried a number of times (starting with
the Stargate project), but it never seems to last. Maybe PageSat could
comment on why they believe they can be successful as a satellite
news service.
--
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Ken Smelcer Glenayre Electronics quintro!k...@lll-winken.llnl.gov
Quincy, IL tiamat!quintro!k...@uunet.uu.net
Phone: (217) 223-3211 FAX: (217) 223-3284
Herman Van Uytven
- how you can post, reply, forward
- how you can have backup feeds when your system was down for a while.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Herman Van Uytven Generic E-mail : |
| Academic Computing Center Herman.V...@urc.kuleuven.ac.be |
| K.U.Leuven Tel: (+32) (16) 286611 local 2225 |
| Willem De Croylaan 52-a Fax: (+32) (16) 207168 |
| B-3001 Heverlee (Leuven) EARN/BITNET: systhvu@blekul11 |
| Belgium Internet: sys...@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be |
| Postmaster and newsmaster for (cc1).kuleuven.ac.be |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norman Gillaspie
The failure of previous services was caused by the following.
1.) Very slow data rate. Thru-put was something like 1200bps. This caused
delays (latency) in postings getting thru.
2.) Expensive hardware was more than $2500 plus a fee I think.
3.) Required large antennas. Service was C band.
4.) Censorship of News.
5.) Complicated protocol.
6.) A limited commitment on the providers. The program was "experimental in
nature" funding was from a grant with limited funds. When the funding
was gone the service was gone.
7.) Timing
8.) lack of software. Currently Pagesat provides ingest software for Unix,
Dos and Windows.
BTW pagesat will probably be handling MX forwarding for Email soon. We are
looking for people to work with.
Norman
--
William C Fenner
>BTW pagesat will probably be handling MX forwarding for Email soon. We are
>looking for people to work with.
How do you plan to handle privacy, in broadcasting E-Mail? What kind of
encryption are you going to use?
Bill
--
Bill Fenner fen...@cmf.nrl.navy.mil
Rich Braun
>system works? Is it a 'read-only' feed, or is there some mechanism for
>posting news via a dial-up link?
I'm working with setting up a PageSat link myself now, and I have to
confess to being somewhat appalled by the lengthy advertising posting
here in a mainstream newsgroup (I'm reading this in news.misc at the
moment). Ignoring that indiscretion, it's my hope that PageSat or
a competitor does succeed one way or another with this service, since
it does seem a far more efficient way to broadcast netnews. The 18"
dish is appealing because it's not very intrusive.
So far as I know PageSat will let us use NNTP to transfer postings directly
to their system (pagesat.com). That's fortunate for a site which
has Internet connections; I don't know if there's a way to UUCP stuff
into the PageSat system.
I'd like to hear comments here about the routing lossage caused when
articles are not posted back through the same system(s) from which a feed
is obtained. I know there is such lossage but an explanation would be
helpful. In particular, PageSat carries 4830 newsgroups and dozens of
regional distributions as of last Saturday, when I checked, so a lot
of those groups wouldn't be carried by other systems along an indirect
path.
>Hasn't this type of news-feed been around for a while? If memory serves,
>this transport mechanism has been tried a number of times (starting with
>the Stargate project), but it never seems to last. Maybe PageSat could
>comment on why they believe they can be successful as a satellite
>news service.
Yeah, I think there have been a couple of unsuccessful past attempts. The
PageSat architecture as shown in the Boardwatch article looks promising,
since it can be run reliably at a low operating cost, but I have to wonder
where even the nominal sum of money needed is going to come from.
Data encryption seems to me the only way to enforce monthly billing.
At this point anyone with a receiver and a computer system fast enough
to reliably cope with the incoming data stream in real time (there's
no flow control, of course) can tune it in. Presumably the feed will
be compressed and encrypted as of a certain planned date. They might
have a problem doing that since a competitor can rent bandwidth on a
satellite for not a whole lot of money and provide a similar service to
those with compatible receiving equipment. PageSat has a leg up since
they have a big infrastructure to support their profitable wide-area
paging service; the incremental cost of running the USENET system is
basically a small network of Suns to run NNTP (I notice it's still running
NNTP 1.5.11 so they have some room to manuever by installing INN 1.4).
A minor concern I have about the future of services like this is this:
PageSat probably doesn't have to pay its NNTP neighbors today to
receive news. If PageSat made a lot of money on this, then those
neighbors might want a share. Then NNTP will start to cost money, and
such costs have to be passed on to us consumers.
Anyway, it's a fascinating concept and I hope it works out and gets
the kind of support it needs to remain a high-quality service.
-rich
Lorenz 'Germaican' Redlefsen
One thing that I would be interested in would be the availability
of such a service. In particular, would this be broadcast only within the
US, or could it be received in the Caribbean, too? I know that normal TV
programs can be received in the Caribbean. So how about it? Could you
receive News on the beach with one of these dishes?
Lorenz
Norman Gillaspie
> Lorenz
Lorenz
We might transmit on another satellite for more global coverage. I am
investigating this now. To get extremely wide area coverage and into
thin route areas "c" band seems to be the way to go however the dishes
are large. I guess the antenna could keep the sun out of your eyes.
Norman
BTW we a have a new newsgroup called biz.pagesat
Norman
--
Bill Vermillion
>
>>In article <norman.7...@pagesat.com> nor...@pagesat.com (Norman Gillaspie) writes:
>>>Pagesat is providing a complete usenet news feed via satellite and
>>>delivering over over 80Mg a day during high traffic periods.
>>>The service is currently being received by over 100 customers. These
>>>customers include private individuals, newsgathering agencies (newspapers),
>>>BBS's, and computer/communications systems providers.
>>I was wondering if any PageSat customers could comment on how well this
>>system works? Is it a 'read-only' feed, or is there some mechanism for
>>posting news via a dial-up link?
>>Hasn't this type of news-feed been around for a while? If memory serves,
>>this transport mechanism has been tried a number of times (starting with
>>the Stargate project), but it never seems to last. Maybe PageSat could
>>comment on why they believe they can be successful as a satellite
>>news service.
>The failure of previous services was caused by the following.
>1.) Very slow data rate. Thru-put was something like 1200bps. This caused
> delays (latency) in postings getting thru.
>2.) Expensive hardware was more than $2500 plus a fee I think.
This is from memory of Lauren Weinsteins' announcement at the 1986
Usenix conference in Atlanta. This was the official announcement of
the end of the Stargate experiment.
Stargate's modem was in the $700 range. And you needed either a
satellite receive OR a cable system carrying WTBS. The data was in
one of the sub-carriers. This was a pilot system remember.
>6.) A limited commitment on the providers. The program was "experimental in
> nature" funding was from a grant with limited funds. When the funding
> was gone the service was gone.
Since the net was growing so fast and the 6 Megs a day were getting to
be quite a lot to handle ( :-) :-) :-) ), another experiment in
connectivity and news distribution was also announced about then.
usenix then announced funding for a 6 month trial of something they
called uunet. That one seemed to be more successful than anyone's
wildest imagination.
--
Bill Vermillion - bi...@bilver.uucp OR bi...@bilver.oau.org
Lauren Weinstein
>
>>1.) Very slow data rate. Thru-put was something like 1200bps. This caused
>> delays (latency) in postings getting thru.
>>2.) Expensive hardware was more than $2500 plus a fee I think.
>
>This is from memory of Lauren Weinsteins' announcement at the 1986
>Usenix conference in Atlanta. This was the official announcement of
>the end of the Stargate experiment.
>
>Stargate's modem was in the $700 range. And you needed either a
>satellite receive OR a cable system carrying WTBS. The data was in
>one of the sub-carriers. This was a pilot system remember.
Greetings. I haven't been following this thread in detail, but a
couple of comments:
1) The 1200bps data rate was the rate chosen for the experimental
period. As I recall, the hardware could have been run up to 9600
with an appropriate increase of vertical interval bandwidth. There
was no need to do this during the period of the experiment. Netnews
volume was considerably (!) lower than now. Any latencies were
primarily related to the decentralized nature of primary netnews
distribution channels back then--things have centralized a lot
in the years since.
2) The cost of the decoders to users was under $700 as I recall. I can't
remember an exact figure--something around $500 seems closer to the mark,
but I really don't know exactly offhand. I do know that in even smallish
production quantities the price would have been considerably lower. The
reason the price was highish was because relatively few units were in
service and there was a lot of manual programming of the units for the
experiment. If we had gone to production with the service, the price
would have been lower.
3) As I've pointed out many times, the main reason the experiment ended was
that our vertical interval service provider was bought by another firm
who felt that the vertical interval should be used by much more expensive
services, and essentially kicked us off. At the time we were not paying
very much for the data space and there was no way we could afford a new
rate structure. Since the hardware involved was proprietary to the
service provider we could not simply move to another satellite service
without a complete revamp of the system including all new decoders.
That's not to say that we were happy with the performance of the old
decoders (we weren't) but the cost of a changeover would have been very
large.
Note that we were in the vertical interval--not on a subcarrier.
In general, the vertical interval is passed straight through
cable systems--subcarriers, except those specifically re-processed
by the cable operator (such as stereo, etc.) are not.
My main philosophy with Stargate was that if it REQUIRED the installation
of a dish, even a small one, it would lock out too many prospective
customers. Even getting permission to put up a small dish can be
a massive hassle in many locations and in many buildings (particularly
non-residential), even assuming line-of-sight. The idea was that
you could plug in anywhere you could get WTBS/TBS and the data would
just be there. Toward the end, there were rumors that some cable
companies might try strip out vertical intervals and demand money from
the service providers for the right to get their data to their
customers. I think such a dispute even went to court later with some
commercial data provider involving (I think) WGN (long after the
Stargate experiment had been ended).
--Lauren--
Keith Ledig
>
>My main philosophy with Stargate was that if it REQUIRED the installation
>of a dish, even a small one, it would lock out too many prospective
>customers. Even getting permission to put up a small dish can be
>a massive hassle in many locations and in many buildings (particularly
>non-residential), even assuming line-of-sight. The idea was that
>you could plug in anywhere you could get WTBS/TBS and the data would
>just be there. Toward the end, there were rumors that some cable
>companies might try strip out vertical intervals and demand money from
>the service providers for the right to get their data to their
>customers. I think such a dispute even went to court later with some
>commercial data provider involving (I think) WGN (long after the
>Stargate experiment had been ended).
>
to the doorstep via cable-TV because of cable companies vampire
like greed? Or did they just not get around to doing it yet?
It still seems the cheapest way to go to providing a data service
like usenet feeds through the cable. A much cheaper and easier to
install modem could be provided. I am sure at $30 a month a
users would gladly pay for full feed. The equipment could even
be rented like cable companies rent the decoder box so no out
of pocket initial expense would be necessary. Then again
anyone that really likes TV has a dish anyway so I guess the
analogy carries over to a data system like the news feed. Satellite
dish installation does get tough for appartment dwellers unless
you are lucky enough to have your building face towards the
satellite.
j...@cmkrnl.com
> In article <C8DzD...@cv.vortex.com> lau...@cv.vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein) writes:
>>
>>My main philosophy with Stargate was that if it REQUIRED the installation
>>of a dish, even a small one, it would lock out too many prospective
> [...]
> anyone that really likes TV has a dish anyway
Even granting that this is true -- I don't believe it is -- the intersection of
folks who "really like tv" and those who would want and could benefit from a
satellite news feed probably isn't very large. There are lots of people who
"really like tv" but don't have room, permission, money, or sufficient interest in
techie-toys to buy and set up a dish. Or they may simply not feel the need;
they may "really like tv" but may be satisfied with the choices of programming
available via CATV.)
In fact, I doubt that the intersection between actual TVRO installations
(mostly single-family residences, sports bars, and hotels) and those who would
want a satellite news feed probably isn't very large.
I'll go even further: If you replace "TVRO installations" with "companies that
have cable TV hookups" you still have a fairly small intersection. A large
percentage of Usenet sites are still companies rather than private individuals.
How many companies do you know of that have cable TV?
Heck, here in San Diego, many of the industrial park-type areas aren't even
wired for cable yet... I don't know how this is in other cities, but I do know
that most companies have very little motivation to bring in a CATV feed. ("All
it'll do is give people more channels to fight about in the lunchroom", or
similar.)
When CATV starts offering digital network services, videoconferencing, etc.,
this will of course change.
--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
drivers, internals, networks, applications, and training for VMS and Windows NT
uucp 'g' protocol guru and release coordinator, VMSnet (DECUS uucp) W.G., and
Chair, Programming and Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VMS Systems SIG
Internet: j...@cmkrnl.com Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh CIS: 74140,2055
Lauren Weinstein
This simply isn't true. There are lots of hardcore TV viewers who
might LIKE to have a dish--but either can't afford it, don't have a place
to put it, can't get permission to install it, or don't have line-of-sight.
Small dish DBS systems will make it easier, but there will still be
problems.
In fact, the "problem" of companies not having cable wasn't as big an issue
for Stargate as I had originally anticipated. It turned out that many
firms did have cable (sometimes just to the executive suites, but it
was there!) So in some cases, rather than drag the RF cable all the
way to the machine room, it was easier just to split the cable where
it already existed and install the Stargate demod/decoder at that point.
Then the connection to the computer could be made over any RS232 pair
that happened to be around--and those were usually everywhere...
--Lauren--
Norman Gillaspie
>--Lauren--
Lauren,
What did the tuner demodulator cost for the original system?
Maybe you could give us a brief overview of the project for historical
purposes.
Lauren Weinstein
>What did the tuner demodulator cost for the original system?
>
>Maybe you could give us a brief overview of the project for historical
>purposes.
>
>Norman
Actually, I should have known better than to insert myself into this
thread at all, since I don't really have the time to follow it,
and in fact I probably won't be from this point on, since the main
discussion is taking place in groups that I don't always read.
Unfortunately, I just don't have time available now to spend writing
musings over a long-ended experiment...
Virtually all of my data regarding the project is offline, and is pretty
much ancient history (relatively speaking, anyway) at this point. The best
sources for info regarding the project are probably in the Usenix
proceedings for those conferences where I spoke regarding Stargate, or in
various items that were posted to related groups during and after the
project by myself and others who were involved. It seems that I have to
make the same comments about "why the experiment was ended" every couple of
years (as I did a few days ago in at least some of these groups...)
If I had the time I'd do an FAQ on Stargate... but I don't...
So, if there's any lack of further response from me about Stargate in these
groups, please don't consider it to be anything other than my not following
the discussion on a regular basis.
Individuals with specific technical questions about Stargate should
contact me directly--I'll try answer as long as the responses aren't
going to be time consuming and don't require that I go digging through
the offline data for specifics! Thanks much.
--Lauren--
Henry Spencer
>>[dishes can be a hassle] The idea was that
>>you could plug in anywhere you could get WTBS/TBS and the data would
>>just be there. Toward the end, there were rumors that some cable
>>companies might try strip out vertical intervals and demand money from
>>the service providers for the right to get their data to their
>>
>So does this mean they scrapped the idea of providing the data service
>to the doorstep via cable-TV because of cable companies vampire
Time for a brief recap from Economics 101, I see. :-) The fact is,
vertical-interval data-transmission bandwidth is *valuable*, especially
on a service like WTBS that already goes lots of places where data
customers might be found. The supply is very limited and demand is
very high; in a free society, that means high prices (and probably
some disputes about ownership). People who want to price this service
high are just doing the job they are paid for: making money for the
company stockholders.
(I don't deny that stupidity and corruption occur in the cable business,
but much the same thing would happen even without it.)
I recall Lauren telling us that even the religious broadcasters were very
much aware that their vertical-interval space was a valuable asset. The
Stargate project got lucky in finding a vertical-interval owner who was
interested in the project and willing to take a near-term financial loss
in hopes of benefits in the long run. It was later unlucky in having that
owner bought out by less farsighted people.
>It still seems the cheapest way to go to providing a data service
>like usenet feeds through the cable...
Cheapest until you consider that 57000 other people want that bandwidth
for their own nifty projects. That makes it a scarce, hence valuable,
resource, and guarantees that you won't get it cheap.
--
Altruism is a fine motive, but if you | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
want results, greed works much better. | he...@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
Glen Purdy
>delivering over over 80Mg a day during high traffic periods.
>The baud rate is 9600 Bps async thru a RS-232 interface to your computer
>from the VSAT earth station.
>
>The file format delivered is in approximately 100K byte uncompressed
>batches that are written to your hard drive via PageSat's ingest software.
What happens when the complete usenet feed starts to consistently
exceed 80 MBytes a day? Is there any facility for compressing
the data or speeding up the transfer?
__________________________________________________________
| |
| Glen L. Purdy Jr. at&t : (206) 335-2075 |
| Lake Stevens Instrument Div. un*x : hplabs!hplsla!glenp |
| Hewlett-Packard Co. gl...@lsid.hp.com |
|__________________________________________________________|
--
Thanks,
Glen
_______________________________________________________________
Norman Gillaspie
The batches could be compressed and more bandwidth can be added.
Norman
--
Anthony A. Datri
here in the vertical interval.
--
======================================================================8--<
Gary Hughes - VMS Development
In article <C8Mvw...@scr.siemens.com>, a...@scr.siemens.com (Anthony A. Datri) writes...
>A fiend of mine in the UK was suprised that we don't have teletext broadcast
>here in the vertical interval.
There is some, but not much. TBS carries a teletext magazine in their VBI and I
recall there being another.
Remember that the telecom regulatory system here is very different to most
other countries. The FCC took it's (then) usual hands off, let the market
decide approach to teletext standards. There were several trials, with both
alpha-mosaic and alpha-geometric systems. None of them really established
enough critical mass to get any one of them going as a commercial concern.
I suspect the reason TBS still carries it (using a system very similar to
CeeFax if I recall correctly) is that Ted Turner seems to like stuff like this.
The market driven approach sometimes works out, as appears to be happening in
HDTV, and sometimes doesn't (teletext, ISDN, ...).
With the ability to add miscellaneous data channels to the proposed digital TV
formats we may see a renewed interest in teletext type activities in the US.
gary
John R. Moore
]A fiend of mine in the UK was suprised that we don't have teletext broadcast
]here in the vertical interval.
There used to be teletext in several of the network broadcast channels.
I don't know if it is still there.
--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)
jo...@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!jo...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
- - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
- - It is not enough to be right. One must also be effective! - -
Matthew Dickinson
CNN International also carries teletext, at least from the Astra satellite
I don't know if the other feeds do.
Kauto Huopio
> CNN International also carries teletext, at least from the Astra satellite
> I don't know if the other feeds do.
The (now fully Eurocrypt-S -encrypted) THOR D-MAC feed does carry CNN
teletext in MAC-teletext format. And of course our cable network won't
invest to enough intelligent headend boxes that could do the teletext
conversion.. :(
--KAuto
--
****************** Kauto Huopio (huo...@kannel.lut.fi) **********************
* Mail: Kauto Huopio, Laserkatu 3 CD 363, SF-53850 Lappeenranta,Finland *
*****************************************************************************
Phil Hughes
: gl...@labglp.lsid.hp.com (Glen Purdy) writes:
: > What happens when the complete usenet feed starts to consistently
: > exceed 80 MBytes a day? Is there any facility for compressing
: > the data or speeding up the transfer?
: The batches could be compressed and more bandwidth can be added.
I received the literature yesterday on this system. You sure aren't
going to add bandwidth with the current receiver -- it is just a
V.27/V.29 modem also known as a FAX modem.
As much as I first liked this idea it seems to sound like Stargate all
over again. The speed is increased but so is the volume. I don't
think it is a long-term solution.
--
Phil Hughes - FYL - 8315 Lk City Wy NE - Suite 207 - Seattle, WA 98115
Phone: 206-526-2919 x74 Fax: 526-0803
E-mail: f...@fylz.com or nwnexus!fylz!fyl
Edward T. Shiobara
>I received the literature yesterday on this system. You sure aren't
>going to add bandwidth with the current receiver -- it is just a
>V.27/V.29 modem also known as a FAX modem.
>As much as I first liked this idea it seems to sound like Stargate all
>over again. The speed is increased but so is the volume. I don't
>think it is a long-term solution.
It could be a long-term solution if there was a way to request
"missed" packets... in case your system was down for a few minutes or
crashed or what-not.
Nothing will ever rival a true IP connection---not in the near
future.
Don Hackler
> Nothing will ever rival a true IP connection---not in the near
> future.
Especially the _price_ of an IP connection! It's not even an option
for most of us.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Hackler - do...@shakala.com
Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA +1-408-734-2289
Bernd Hentig
>ro...@ecwav.des.edu (Edward T. Shiobara) writes:
>
>> Nothing will ever rival a true IP connection---not in the near
>> future.
>
>Especially the _price_ of an IP connection! It's not even an option
>for most of us.
Sorry, but I missed the postings before yours:
Which satellite(s) is(are) transmitting News data currently ?
(Position in degrees)
What is the frequency of the News - Channel via satellite (GHz) ?
Which protocols does it conform to ?
Does it come from Astra (Europe only) too ?
:):):)
(There are already some add-on channels
for DOS - PD - Software; but I don't remember the name of the company
who sells the receivers.)
No, I don't think missed packets will ever be a problem at all,
though you will always need a terrestrial link to post your own
news and mail :)
We're working on a project for a large data feeder :) who distributes
all his data via satellite.
The receiving machine is a simple 486 - PC with some satellite card
in it (quite expensive though :( ) and important data that may get lost due
to rainfades etc. on the receiving station is repeated permanently
over the day.
Because of the high bandwith from the new digital satellite channels
(several MBytes per second per channel :)
any news item could be repeated, say, each hour for one day and on weekends all
working days could be repeated at fixed times.
So if you switch on your host for at least one or two hours a day, you will
have no problems receiving all this news ... even if the speed
of your machine is limited.
The real problem is: who pays for it ?
Perhaps some pay-TV coding must be added to prevent unlicensed users
from receiving the data ...
If you imagine a TV satellite channel costing aroung 1 to 10 million
US $ per year (I think Astra charges 12 million German marks :),
then how many news readers must subscribe to this channel to
allow for an acceptable charge ???
If we could find a sponsor (do your hear me IBM, DEC, MTV, etc. ?) who
paid for an add-on channel to an ordinary TV - programme (we've got
several examples on that here in Germany) the problem would weaken ...
Happy flaming
Bernd
--
Bernd Hentig | Email behe%inasy...@Germany.Eu.net
inasys GmbH | Phone Voice (Germany) (0)228 5205 451 FAX ~ 100
D-W-5300 Bonn | *** I don't speak for my employer since he doesn't
Germany | speak for me ... ***
Norman Gillaspie
>Happy flaming
I have been trying to make arrangements for another feed covering all of
Europe. This would be the complete usenet feed of 60 megs a day using the same
Pagesat receiving system as in the US. The feed would be on Pan Am Sat. The
hardware would cost the same $1800 per system however we would not provide the
antenna. The antenna required would be a 75CM Ku band and would be procured
locally. Pagesat would provide all electronics including the LNB. The
regulatory problems etc. would be up to the user and the local customs to work
out. This service could start in 90 days if their is enough interest.
Please send an email message to pag...@pagesat.com along with your complete
postal address and we will keep you informed.
Norman Gillaspie nor...@pagesat.com
Davide Yachaya
>In article <aXXJ6B...@shakala.com> do...@shakala.com (Don Hackler) writes:
>Sorry, but I missed the postings before yours:
>Which satellite(s) is(are) transmitting News data currently ?
The satellite is GE Americom K-2.
Unfortunately It's just for the U.S.A and the southern part of Canada.
>What is the frequency of the News - Channel via satellite (GHz) ?
C-Band. I don't remeber the frequency.
>Does it come from Astra (Europe only) too ?
>:):):)
I.M.H.O. in Europe this kind of service could be an "hot cake"!!!!
In my country (Italy) the telephone company is expensive and not reliable
and "crossing the atlantic" is very expensive.
No comment on the EUnet or the italian I2U .....:-( :-P :-P
I would be the first customer of a company who sell this service
in Europe using ASTRA or some other satellite.
Is't not possible to find a trasponder for europe ?
(Pagesat.... this is for you)
>No, I don't think missed packets will ever be a problem at all,
>though you will always need a terrestrial link to post your own
>news and mail :)
It's not a big problem to post *just your news*....:-)
>The real problem is: who pays for it ?
Me. :-) :-) :-) A small but very interested customer....
There is anybody out there ?
--
Davide Yachaya
Systemy
V. Regina Adelaide 4 - Massaua, Fraz. Torre D'Isola, 27020 Pavia (ITALY)
Tel:0382,524880 Fax:0382,524911 Bbs: 0382,407446
Larry D Snyder
>be...@inasys.uucp (Bernd Hentig) writes:
>>In article <aXXJ6B...@shakala.com> do...@shakala.com (Don Hackler) writes:
>>Sorry, but I missed the postings before yours:
>>Which satellite(s) is(are) transmitting News data currently ?
>The satellite is GE Americom K-2.
>Unfortunately It's just for the U.S.A and the southern part of Canada.
>>What is the frequency of the News - Channel via satellite (GHz) ?
>C-Band. I don't remeber the frequency.
K-2 I believe is KU band (12 gigahertz range downlink, 11.x gigahertz uplink)
--
Larry Snyder Internet: la...@gator.oau.org
Orlando, Florida UUCP: ..!uunet!tarpit!gator!larry
Bryan Halvorson
> be...@inasys.uucp (Bernd Hentig) writes:
> >In article <aXXJ6B...@shakala.com> do...@shakala.com (Don Hackler) writes:
> >Sorry, but I missed the postings before yours:
> >Which satellite(s) is(are) transmitting News data currently ?
>
> The satellite is GE Americom K-2.
> Unfortunately It's just for the U.S.A and the southern part of Canada.
>
> >What is the frequency of the News - Channel via satellite (GHz) ?
>
> C-Band. I don't remeber the frequency.
It's KU band. K2 transponder 12 14353.5 Mhz. I'm not exactly sure what the
subcarrier frequency is, I think it's around 2.45 or 4.115 Mhz. At least
those are the only high speed data carriers I can find on that
transponder with my R-71.
I've got a Wegener receiver set up for manual frequency programming now
so I'll be doing some more dialing around with it once I get my KU dish
moved so it's not looking thru an oak tree.
--
Bryan Halvorson br...@edgar.mn.org
N0BUU br...@n0buu.tcman.ampr.org