RESULT:, news.lists reorganization all groups pass

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Jani Patokallio

Dec 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM12/4/96

unmoderated group news.lists.filters passes 184:16
moderated group news.lists.misc (renames news.lists) passes 171:28
unmoderated group passes 178:18, news.lists reorganization results - 204 valid votes

Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
184 16 : Yes Yes : Yes : news.lists.filters
171 28 : Yes Yes : Yes : news.lists.misc (renames news.lists)
178 18 : Yes Yes : Yes :

Newsgroups lines:
news.lists.filters Notices for automated news filtering systems.
news.lists.misc News-related statistics and lists. (Moderated) News-related software other than readers and servers.

The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 3 Dec 1996.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Direct questions
about the proposed group to the proponent. Do not distribute this CFV or the
information contained in it in any form without the votetaker's permission.

Proponent: Russ Allbery <>
Proponent: Ulf Bahrenfuss <>
Proponent: Raphael Quinet <>
Proponent: Tim Skirvin <>
Proponent: Fridrik Skulason <>
Proponent: Dimitri Vulis <>
Proponent: Cancelmoose[tm] <>
Votetaker: Jani Patokallio <>

RATIONALE: all groups

Unmoderated newsgroups are becoming less useful as massive numbers of
off-topic posts, crossposts, and multiposts crowd out on-topic threads
and drive the discussion elsewhere. As an alternative to the
traditional solutions (killfiles, creation of moderated newsgroups,
issuing third-party cancels), several automatic news filtering
protocols have been proposed as a means to permit effective
communication in affected newsgroups without infringing on anyone's
ability to post freely. As Usenet moves toward authenticated cancels,
these filtering protocols will hopefully replace third-party cancels
as the means to counteract forgeries, spews, copyright violations,
misplaced binaries, excessive multiposting, and other kinds of
inappropriate news traffic.

Here is a description of one of the most popular of these protocols,
from <URL:>:

Q: What is NoCeM?

A: NoCeM (pronounced No See 'Em) may well be:
* A solution to the spam problem.
* A solution to the spam-cancel problem.
* A way to "edit" Usenet if that's what you want.
* A way to have others "edit" Usenet for you, if that's what
you want.
* A way to have no one alter what you see on Usenet, (to the
degree that this is possible.)

Basically, it's a protocol for sending out lists of message ids that
you recommend a person either read or not read. It allows spam to be
dealt with without all the problems of unauthenticated cancels, since
each user can just choose the spam removers that they trust and use
NoCeM to hide all the articles they hide. It allows someone to
"moderate" a newsgroup without actually changing it; you can just
subscribe to their NoCeM messages and you'll get only those articles
that they think are worth reading.

More formally, NoCeM is a prototype system for out-of-band editing of
the news stream, whereby the message-ids of certain desirable or
undesirable articles are identified by an "issuer" and prespecified
action (ie, removal of the article from the newsrc) is taken at the
user's end. Issuers can be subscribed to in the same way that
newsgroups can be, and an issuer's notice is authenticated with a
public key. The opinions of an issuer are only valid if a user wishes
to abide by their decision. A copy of the NoCeM FAQ and prototype
client can be obtained on alt.nocem.misc, at <URL:>,
or by sending an email request to

Since the start of development of NoCeM, there has been a demand for
both a place to discuss development issues, and also a place to post
the notices themselves. alt.nocem.misc has served as a start, however
its usefulness is extremely limited by poor alt.* propagation. The
demand for this (as judged by email requests for a newsfeed) is felt
to be high, and will continue to grow now that automated spam
notifications are being posted. In addition, other filtering systems
are also being developed, and discussion of each of them separately
and all of them in light of each other will be quite valuable.

Issues regarding the development of software to work with Usenet news
would be appropriate for a* group; however, at the
moment there is insufficient volume to justify a
group. The group would cover all projects that
aren't otherwise covered in the hierarchy. Another
example besides NoCeM is modifications to news readers and servers to
implement authenticated cancels.

The posting of large amounts of computer generated data is most
appropriate for the news.lists heirarchy, so news.lists.filters is
proposed as a group for posting NoCeM notices as well as notices for
any other filtering methods currently in use or developed in the

RATIONALE: news.lists.filters

There was extensive discussion of whether or not to robomoderate this
newsgroup during the preliminary planning phases. It was finally
decided not to since the group should welcome all NoCeM messages
regardless of source or intent and the existence of even
robomoderation can create the appearance of unfairness.

The name news.lists.filters was chosen over news.lists.nocem to avoid
the unclear acronym and make it more obvious what the group should

RATIONALE: news.lists.misc

A renaming of news.lists to news.lists.misc is included to conform to
Usenet naming convention and at the request of and in cooperation with
the news.lists moderator.

CHARTER: news.lists.filters

This group is for the posting of automated notices for use with news
filtering systems, such as notices in the NoCeM format. Filter
notices may also be crossposted to other newsgroups as appropriate and
if the other group wants to see them. If your notice includes
discussion, please redirect followups out of this newsgroup.
Discussion of the nocem protocol is not appropriate for this
newsgroup, and should be posted to Spamming to
this newsgroup will result in an itching pox being called down upon
your entire family.


CHARTER: news.lists.misc

This group is for any news-related lists or statistics which are not
appropriate in any other newsgroup in the hierarchy. Examples of
on-topic postings include lists of currently valid newsgroups, Usenet
readership statistics, and lists of mailing lists.


MODERATOR INFO: news.lists.misc

Moderator: David Lawrence <>
Administrative contact address:
Article submission address:



This group is for the discussion of general news software issues not
otherwise covered by other groups in the hierarchy. Posting of
automated NoCeM, control or other notices is generally not appropriate
for this newsgroup, and should be posted to news.lists.filters. (An
exception is made for the purposes of seeking debugging help.) Posts
that concern news software and other issues may be crossposted here.
General developments in news software which affect both readers and
servers are on-topic for this group.

END CHARTER., news.lists reorganization Final Vote Ack -----+
news.lists.misc (renames news.lists) ----+|
news.lists.filters ---+||
* Chris A. Calone YYY Antonio Mario Lorusso YYY Aahz YNY Alan Bostick YYY Alejandros Diamandidis YYY Alan Fleming YYY Andrew Henry YYY Aleksandar Ivanisevic YYY Alan H. Kline YYY Alain Deckers YYY alan watts YYY
al...@godzilla.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Alan Coopersmith YYY Alan Schwartz YYY Anand Chelian YY- Andrew Gierth YYY ANdy Latto YNN J. Sean Connell YYY Anne Bennett YYY Stephanie da Silva YYY Al Schmitt YYY Ashton Eidolon YYY
bar...@crd.GE.COM Bruce Barnett <> YYY Ben Coleman YYY Brian Edmonds YYY Bengt Larsson NNN Bill Stewart-Cole YYY Jeremy Billones YY- Alex Feely YNY Bob Frable YYY Robert Mascaro YYY Henryk Bochmann NNN Robert Bonomi YYY Martin H. Booda NNN
bre...@mathematik.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE Bernhard Reiter YYY David Bromage YYY Bud Jamison YYY Thom Byxbe YYY Chris Martin YYY Christopher Jeris YYY Charlie Andrews NNN Christian Pree YYY Christopher J Biggs YYY Chris Koenigsberg YYY Chris Siebenmann YYY Ben Combee YYY Greg Marr YYY Colin Leech YYY Don Croyle Y-Y Thomas Wolmer YYY Damien Doligez YYY Daniel Rybowski YYY Dan Moore YYY Dave Mayall YYY Bill Davidsen YYY David Whitehorn-Umphres YYY Deane Lofton YYY G. Del Merritt YYY David Formosa YYY Vin Locke YYY Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Y-Y Denis McKeon YYY Doug McNaught YYY Don Porter YYY Dan Riley YYY Robert Brown YYY Paul Eggert YYY
e...@NetUSA.Net Benjamin Elijah Griffin YYY Rick Ellis YYY E Vielmetti YYY Axel F. Zinser YYY Frans P. de Vries YYY Ed Gaillard NNN gregory byshenk YYY Jonathan Grobe YYY harri johansson YYY Stephan Heilmayr YYY Randolph J Herber YYY Herbert Xu YYY William R Ward YNN howard goldstein YYY Hud Nordin YYY Heiko W.Rupp YYY Jim Sorensen YYY Jeffrey Goldberg YYY James Stansell YYY James Lynn YY- Jason Costomiris NNY John David Galt Y-Y Jeremy YYY
Je...@PeachNet.EDU Jerry W. Segers YYY Joe George NNN Jim Riley YNY Jim Davis YYY Joshua Kramer YYY Juha Laiho YYY Jim Lowman YNY Joe St Sauver YYY John Collis YYY J. Porter Clark YYY Jim Rusling YYY Joseph S. D. Yao YYY Michael Craft NNN Juhana Räsänen YYY John W. Reece --- Kai Henningsen YYY Karen M. Buckarma YYY Ken Arromdee -N- Katharine Weizel YYY Kim DeVaughn YNY Kimmo Ketolainen +358 40 555 5508 YYY Kenneth McKinlay YYY Kevin Johnson YYY SO Kwok Tsun YYY Isaac Ji Kuo -NN Stefan Lache YYY Laszlo de Miranda Pinto YYY Phil Launchbury YYY Matthias Dietz-Lenssen YYY Leo Breebaart YYY Gregory L. Limes YYY Gino Lucrezi YYY Larry W. Virden YYY Mickey Stewart YY- John D. Carmack YYY Aaron Marquez NNN Rich Irvine NNN Maurizio Codogno YYY Mike Northam YYY Mark Crego YYY Michael Kohne YYY Mike Malveaux YYY Valerie Crowe YYY Popess Lilith von Fraumench YYY Markku Kolkka YYY Mike Moroney YYY Dolores Scaldini YYY Mustafa Soysal MS57 YNY Michael T Pins YYY Bernhard Muenzer YYY Christian Weisgerber YYY MAKAREVITCH Nathanael YYY Nick Waterman YYY Nathan Tenny YYY Olav Nieuwejaar NNN Ollivier Robert YYY Robert A. Allen YYY Otto J. Makela YYY Patrick J. LoPresti NNN Trevor Tymchuk YYY Per I. Mathisen YY- Peter da Silva YYY Peter Schuerman Y-- Philip Hunt YYY Pete Humble YYY Pirawat Watanapongse YYY Ralf W. Stephan YYY Randell Jesup YYY Raphael Quinet YYY Raymond Y. Lillard YYY R.Bull/B.Bauer YYY Richard H. Derr III NNY Richard B. Woods YYY Richard Clayton YYY Richard Gadsden YYY Richard Miller YYY Rebecca G. McQuitty YYY Ronnie Grant YYY Russ Allbery YYY R. S. Camm YYY Robert E.Tuchler YYY J Rufinus YYY Scott Kenney YYY Matt Schnierle YYY Frank YYY Shapard Wolf YYY Shimon Freudenberger YYY Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz YYY Shrisha Rao NNN Simon Lyall YYY Wolfgang Schelongowski YYY Simon Karpen YYY shuji matsuda YYY Matthias Urlichs YYY Rich Tietjens YYY Dwight Brown NNN Stefan Kapusniak YYY Allen R. Scott-Thoennes YYY Stuart Yeates YYY Sudish Joseph YYY Steven Garman YYY Matthijs Sypkens Smit YYY Rob Ritter YYY Thomas Parmelan YYY Ted Resnick YYY Tim Skirvin YYY Tabor J. Wells YYY Troy Varange NNN Vikas Agnihotri YNY N.T. Wakelyn -NN Frank Wiedmann YYY Christopher M. Conway YYY Syed Yusuf YYY Aaron Zollman YYY Mark Atwood YYY

Jani Patokallio <>
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