CFV: soc.culture.kashmir moderated
Jan Isley
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group soc.culture.kashmir
Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.kashmir Social, cultural and political forum on Kashmir. (Moderated)
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Altaf A. Wani <aw...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Votetaker: Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
RATIONALE: soc.culture.kashmir
The proposed moderated newsgroup will be aimed at discussions relating
directly to a region known as Jammu & Kashmir (referred to Kashmir
hereafter). It is geographically located in the South-Central Asia
with the famous Himalayan, Karakorum and Pir Panjal mountain ranges
cutting through it. In its middle is the Vale of Kashmir known to be
one of the most picturesque spots on the globe. In fact, one of the
visiting Kings once noted that "If there is a paradise on earth...
this is it... this is it...this is it". The distinct rich Kashmiri
culture shares its roots from Central Asia and the Indian Sub-Continent.
The soc.culture.kashmir newsgroup will provide a medium to express
and share ideas, make announcements and allow discussions relating
to Kashmir. At present all issues related to Kashmir are discussed
on high traffic newsgroups such as soc.culture.indian and
soc.culture.pakistan. The nature of certain postings and continued
flames and profanities has driven many interested readers away from
discussions. Furthermore, some posters are cross-posting Kashmir
items to many other newsgroups, including alt.culture.karnataka,
soc.culture.punjab and soc.culture.dehli. The readers of these
newsgroups have complained many times and expressed a view that they
do not want their newsgroups "bombarded" with Kashmir postings.
This newsgroup will act as an appropriate platform for discussions
relating to Kashmir. The newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir is not intended
to replace any of the above-mentioned unmoderated groups; these groups
will remain unaffected.
It needs to be reiterated here that this newsgroup is intended to be
"politically" neutral one. Contrary to its opponents, this newsgroup
will not be used to to lodge a propaganda campaign against India
or Pakistan. The moderators will welcome posts from all political
viewpoints since such a policy greatly enhances the information content
and the popularity of the newsgroup. The purpose of the moderation is
solely intended to keep the cross-posts, profanities and posts considered
to be in "bad taste" away from this newsgroup.
CHARTER: soc.culture.kashmir
The newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir is intended to be a moderated forum
for discussions on issues relevant to Kashmir and would include, but
will not be limited to, Kashmiri:
- people
- laws, cultural, political and social issues
- economy , agriculture and commerce
- literature, music and art
- history and geography
- travel and tourist information
- customs, traditions, religions and food
- sports and recreation
- current events
- and any other topic directly related to Kashmir
Moderation Policy:
The moderation of newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir will only be for the
purpose of preventing irrelevant and off-topic articles being posted
to the newsgroup.
The moderation will not be censorship, it will be solely for keeping out:
- posts irrelevant to Kashmir
- flames and profanities
- advertisements
- binaries
The moderators will require the postings to be in standard USENET
posting format, specifically
(1) postings shall be legible
(2) less than 50% quote text
(3) less than 80 characters per line
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.kashmir
Moderator: Dr Abdul Majid <kas...@kashmir.demon.co.uk>
Moderator: Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com>
Article submission address: soc-cultu...@intellistor.com
Administrative contact address: soc-culture-k...@intellistor.com
END MODERATOR INFO.
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When in doubt, please ask the votetaker.
--
Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us> | Running UseVote 3.
votes to: <usenet...@mathcs.emory.edu> | Powered by FreeBSD
dchat...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
In article <8329587...@uunet.uu.net>, Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
writes:
> FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
> moderated group soc.culture.kashmir
>
> Newsgroups line:
> soc.culture.kashmir Social, cultural and political forum on Kashmir.
> (Moderated)
>
> Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996.
>
> This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
> about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
> Proponent: Altaf A. Wani <aw...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
> Votetaker: Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
>
> RATIONALE: soc.culture.kashmir
>
> and share ideas, make announcements and allow discussions relating
> to Kashmir. At present all issues related to Kashmir are discussed
> on high traffic newsgroups such as soc.culture.indian and
> soc.culture.pakistan. The nature of certain postings and continued
> flames and profanities has driven many interested readers away from
> discussions. Furthermore, some posters are cross-posting Kashmir
> items to many other newsgroups, including alt.culture.karnataka,
> soc.culture.punjab and soc.culture.dehli. The readers of these
> newsgroups have complained many times and expressed a view that they
> do not want their newsgroups "bombarded" with Kashmir postings.
The main objective of this soc.culture.kashmir newsgroup seems to
devise ways to increase the propaganda for Pakistan's brand of Islam
in Kashmir. Needless to emphasize that Pakistan has already been
designated by US State Department to sponsor Islamic terrorism in the
Kashmir valley.
Consequently, all the above are imbroglios; the main motivation is to
get the message of Ms. Maleeha Lodhi (Paki ambassador to US) transmitted
to all those islamic-terrorist sympathisers, and probably the KAC (The
Organization of the honorable Dr. Ghulam Nabi Fai) is involved behind
this. Just my speculations based on past experiences.
> This newsgroup will act as an appropriate platform for discussions
> relating to Kashmir. The newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir is not intended
> to replace any of the above-mentioned unmoderated groups; these groups
> will remain unaffected.
Absolute baloney. This newsgroup (moderated) will be the forefront of
the propaganda machinery of Islamic Jihadists who will loudly proclaim
how proud they are when Islamic terrorists kill in the name of Allah in
Kashmir. (BTW, if you are skeptic reader, please read some of the postings
from American Islamic Group (AIG) who are so jubilant when the coward
terrorists kill government troops in Algeria.) The same crap is given by
AIG as does KAC. AIG claims that it has no connection with the mujahadeens
in Algeria and various other parts of the world. But they are so damn
happy to to broadcast the news of the winnings and fortunes of these
Islamic jihadists on SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM, which *IS* a moderated newsgroup.
It is an almost set pattern that the same will be repeated when
SOC.CULTURE.KASHMIR (moderated) is formed. SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM is a
group catering to the interests of the Moslems. Why SOC.CULTURE.KASHMIR ?
Why moderate it ? To get more " vocal" contribution from the Jihadists ??
> It needs to be reiterated here that this newsgroup is intended to be
> "politically" neutral one. Contrary to its opponents, this newsgroup
> will not be used to to lodge a propaganda campaign against India
> or Pakistan. The moderators will welcome posts from all political
> viewpoints since such a policy greatly enhances the information content
> and the popularity of the newsgroup. The purpose of the moderation is
> solely intended to keep the cross-posts, profanities and posts considered
> to be in "bad taste" away from this newsgroup.
Bullshit ! A moderated newsgroup for soc.culture.kashmir, and being
taken over by " neutral " Moslem will be fair and unbiased ??? It has
never been. I browse the SRI from time to time. I have seen how many
allegations exist because of nepotism/ censorship etc. and etc. We can't
expect anything different here. Why is the proponent of this newsgroup
lying so crudely ??
The sole purpose of this moderation is to select those posts which have
the tacit approval of Kashmiri American Council/ Organization of Islamic
Jihad/ American Islamic Group/ Voice of Islam (Toronto, Canada) and etc.
This is a fact and has happened in the past. Thus we shall see many more
anti-India/ anti-Hindu/ anti-Semetic posts in this newsgroup. Oh ! I am
sorry ! Anti-semetic posts will not be allowed because then these noble
moderators will have nowhere to hide in the USA. But, anti-Hindu and
anti-Indian posts will be allowed, as KAC/AIG will raise money to get
lobby against India.
>
> CHARTER: soc.culture.kashmir
CORRECTION: should be SOC.CULTURE.ISLAMIC.KASHMIR (moderated).
> The newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir is intended to be a moderated forum
> for discussions on issues relevant to Kashmir and would include, but
> will not be limited to, Kashmiri:
>
> - people ==> only those who support or are afraid of mujahadeens.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - laws, cultural, political and social issues ==> approved by Sharia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - economy , agriculture and commerce ==> sorry, there are NONE !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - literature, music and art ==> Islam forbids all these, isn't it ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - history and geography ==> history of mosques, and geog. of their locations
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - travel and tourist information ===> beware of Al-Faran & Hurriyat !!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - customs, traditions, religions and food ===> anything that is Islamic
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - sports and recreation ===> `halal' of infidels (Jews - Hans Christian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ostro and Hindus - the 8 Nepalese workers.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - current events ===> Conference of future suicide bombers at Baramullah
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - and any other topic directly related to Kashmir ==> Hatred for Jews and
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hindus.
~~~~~~~
> Moderation Policy:
>
> The moderation of newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir will only be for the
> purpose of preventing irrelevant and off-topic articles being posted
> to the newsgroup.
I (and many others) `understand' what this `off-topic' means. Thanks.
>
> The moderation will not be censorship, it will be solely for keeping out:
>
> - posts irrelevant to Kashmir: such as anti-Jihad stuff from Hindus ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - flames and profanities: How exactly you define this ? What are
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" flames " and " profanities ", huh ? I
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
think you are over-stepping the Bill of
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rights (read Freedom of Speech). Does
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Islam allow freedom of speech, BTW ???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - advertisements: This is again a lie. I have seen on SRI ads. for
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Global Jihad Fund (Zakat). Will the same not
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
appear of this moderated newsgroup ???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> - binaries: you mean no GIF files ??
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> The moderators will require the postings to be in standard USENET
> posting format, specifically
>
> (1) postings shall be legible
> (2) less than 50% quote text
> (3) less than 80 characters per line
>
> END CHARTER.
>
> MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.kashmir
>
> Moderator: Dr Abdul Majid <kas...@kashmir.demon.co.uk>
> Moderator: Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com>
Both are notoriously pro Islamic-Jihadists, from what I have understood
from their postings. How about Dr. Ayub Thukkar (?) and Dr. Ghulam Nabi
Fai ?? Both are pro-Pakistani Moslems, and hence are most likely to have
an anti-Hindu/ anti-India bias. Thus, I suspect the integrity of the
moderators themselves.
Why Warren Lavallee is not taking votes ? (Just curious).
I have serious doubts regarding this newsgroup. I have also posed
some questions and would ask every one reading this message to think
twice before you vote.
The whole newsgroup appears to be serving the interests of some
pro-Islamic org. in order to have their voice heard. This will not
cater to the interests of the soc.culture.kashmir. It should have been
appropriately named:
SOC.CULTURE.ISLAMIC.KASHMIR (moderated).
- regards,
deb chatterjee
(a good samaritan)
Shrisha Rao
Please keep this rubbish off of SCI.J-K; your disgusting
hate-mongering is quite unbearable. Thank you very much. You did
succeed in briefly despoiling India-D Digest a few years ago with just
this kind of rubbish, and it now seems you've decided to extend your
disservice to the Indian newsgroups as well. Time you got yourself a
clue. Or a shrink.
Request to all: please do not be influenced by the actions and words
of twits like Chatterjee here, or their mirror-image counterparts on
the other side; if you wish to vote on SCK, read what the proponents
say in the CFV, have said elsewhere, etc., and make a calm and
balanced choice.
I myself am not voting.
Regards,
Shrisha Rao
[Previous posting quoted in full below for readers on news.groups]
In article <1996May25.1...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
<dchat...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
>In article <8329587...@uunet.uu.net>, Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
>writes:
>> FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
>> moderated group soc.culture.kashmir
>>
>> Newsgroups line:
>> soc.culture.kashmir Social, cultural and political forum on Kashmir.
>> (Moderated)
>>
>> Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996.
>>
>> This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>> about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>>
>> Proponent: Altaf A. Wani <aw...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>> Votetaker: Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
>>
>> RATIONALE: soc.culture.kashmir
>>
>>......[deleted].....<
>> The soc.culture.kashmir newsgroup will provide a medium to express
>> and share ideas, make announcements and allow discussions relating
>> to Kashmir. At present all issues related to Kashmir are discussed
>> on high traffic newsgroups such as soc.culture.indian and
>> soc.culture.pakistan. The nature of certain postings and continued
>> flames and profanities has driven many interested readers away from
>> discussions. Furthermore, some posters are cross-posting Kashmir
>> items to many other newsgroups, including alt.culture.karnataka,
>> soc.culture.punjab and soc.culture.dehli. The readers of these
>> newsgroups have complained many times and expressed a view that they
>> do not want their newsgroups "bombarded" with Kashmir postings.
>
>
> The main objective of this soc.culture.kashmir newsgroup seems to
> devise ways to increase the propaganda for Pakistan's brand of Islam
> in Kashmir. Needless to emphasize that Pakistan has already been
> designated by US State Department to sponsor Islamic terrorism in the
> Kashmir valley.
>
> Consequently, all the above are imbroglios; the main motivation is to
> get the message of Ms. Maleeha Lodhi (Paki ambassador to US) transmitted
> to all those islamic-terrorist sympathisers, and probably the KAC (The
> Organization of the honorable Dr. Ghulam Nabi Fai) is involved behind
> this. Just my speculations based on past experiences.
>
>> This newsgroup will act as an appropriate platform for discussions
>> relating to Kashmir. The newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir is not intended
>> to replace any of the above-mentioned unmoderated groups; these groups
>> will remain unaffected.
>
> Absolute baloney. This newsgroup (moderated) will be the forefront of
> the propaganda machinery of Islamic Jihadists who will loudly proclaim
> how proud they are when Islamic terrorists kill in the name of Allah in
> Kashmir. (BTW, if you are skeptic reader, please read some of the postings
> from American Islamic Group (AIG) who are so jubilant when the coward
> terrorists kill government troops in Algeria.) The same crap is given by
> AIG as does KAC. AIG claims that it has no connection with the mujahadeens
> in Algeria and various other parts of the world. But they are so damn
> happy to to broadcast the news of the winnings and fortunes of these
> Islamic jihadists on SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM, which *IS* a moderated newsgroup.
>
> It is an almost set pattern that the same will be repeated when
> SOC.CULTURE.KASHMIR (moderated) is formed. SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM is a
> group catering to the interests of the Moslems. Why SOC.CULTURE.KASHMIR ?
>
> Why moderate it ? To get more " vocal" contribution from the Jihadists ??
>
>> It needs to be reiterated here that this newsgroup is intended to be
>> "politically" neutral one. Contrary to its opponents, this newsgroup
>> will not be used to to lodge a propaganda campaign against India
>> or Pakistan. The moderators will welcome posts from all political
>> viewpoints since such a policy greatly enhances the information content
>> and the popularity of the newsgroup. The purpose of the moderation is
>> solely intended to keep the cross-posts, profanities and posts considered
>> to be in "bad taste" away from this newsgroup.
>
> Bullshit ! A moderated newsgroup for soc.culture.kashmir, and being
> taken over by " neutral " Moslem will be fair and unbiased ??? It has
> never been. I browse the SRI from time to time. I have seen how many
> allegations exist because of nepotism/ censorship etc. and etc. We can't
> expect anything different here. Why is the proponent of this newsgroup
> lying so crudely ??
>
> The sole purpose of this moderation is to select those posts which have
> the tacit approval of Kashmiri American Council/ Organization of Islamic
> Jihad/ American Islamic Group/ Voice of Islam (Toronto, Canada) and etc.
> This is a fact and has happened in the past. Thus we shall see many more
> anti-India/ anti-Hindu/ anti-Semetic posts in this newsgroup. Oh ! I am
> sorry ! Anti-semetic posts will not be allowed because then these noble
> moderators will have nowhere to hide in the USA. But, anti-Hindu and
> anti-Indian posts will be allowed, as KAC/AIG will raise money to get
> lobby against India.
>
>>
>> CHARTER: soc.culture.kashmir
>
> CORRECTION: should be SOC.CULTURE.ISLAMIC.KASHMIR (moderated).
>
>> The newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir is intended to be a moderated forum
>> for discussions on issues relevant to Kashmir and would include, but
>> will not be limited to, Kashmiri:
>>
>> - people ==> only those who support or are afraid of mujahadeens.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - laws, cultural, political and social issues ==> approved by Sharia
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - economy , agriculture and commerce ==> sorry, there are NONE !!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - literature, music and art ==> Islam forbids all these, isn't it ?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - history and geography ==> history of mosques, and geog. of their locations
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - travel and tourist information ===> beware of Al-Faran & Hurriyat !!!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - customs, traditions, religions and food ===> anything that is Islamic
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - sports and recreation ===> `halal' of infidels (Jews - Hans Christian
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ostro and Hindus - the 8 Nepalese workers.)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - current events ===> Conference of future suicide bombers at Baramullah
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>> - and any other topic directly related to Kashmir ==> Hatred for Jews and
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hindus.
> ~~~~~~~
>> Moderation Policy:
>>
>> The moderation of newsgroup soc.culture.kashmir will only be for the
>> purpose of preventing irrelevant and off-topic articles being posted
>> to the newsgroup.
>
> I (and many others) `understand' what this `off-topic' means. Thanks.
>>
>> The moderation will not be censorship, it will be solely for keeping out:
>>
>> - posts irrelevant to Kashmir: such as anti-Jihad stuff from Hindus ?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> - flames and profanities: How exactly you define this ? What are
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> " flames " and " profanities ", huh ? I
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> think you are over-stepping the Bill of
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Rights (read Freedom of Speech). Does
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Islam allow freedom of speech, BTW ???
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>> - advertisements: This is again a lie. I have seen on SRI ads. for
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Global Jihad Fund (Zakat). Will the same not
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> appear of this moderated newsgroup ???
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>> - binaries: you mean no GIF files ??
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> The moderators will require the postings to be in standard USENET
>> posting format, specifically
>>
>> (1) postings shall be legible
>> (2) less than 50% quote text
>> (3) less than 80 characters per line
>>
>> END CHARTER.
>>
>> MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.kashmir
>>
>> Moderator: Dr Abdul Majid <kas...@kashmir.demon.co.uk>
>> Moderator: Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com>
>
> Both are notoriously pro Islamic-Jihadists, from what I have understood
> from their postings. How about Dr. Ayub Thukkar (?) and Dr. Ghulam Nabi
> Fai ?? Both are pro-Pakistani Moslems, and hence are most likely to have
> an anti-Hindu/ anti-India bias. Thus, I suspect the integrity of the
> moderators themselves.
>
Ajaz Siraj
sh...@nyx.net (Shrisha Rao) writes:
>Please keep this rubbish off of SCI.J-K; your disgusting
>hate-mongering is quite unbearable. Thank you very much. You did
How many of these hate-mongering idiots do you plan to control
now? The creation of SCIJK was like a shot-in-the-arm for such
brain-less creatures. The only thing you can do now to help the
situation is to offer your *FULL* support for SCK.
Regards
~ajaz
Shrisha Rao
In article <4ocrns$k...@opus.intellistor.com>,
Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com> wrote:
>sh...@nyx.net (Shrisha Rao) writes:
>
>>Please keep this rubbish off of SCI.J-K; your disgusting
>>hate-mongering is quite unbearable. Thank you very much. You did
>
> now?
None. Now or ever. I have no control over anyone but myself.
> The creation of SCIJK was like a shot-in-the-arm for such
> brain-less creatures. The only thing you can do now to help the
> situation is to offer your *FULL* support for SCK.
A little late in the day for you to ask for my support -- not that
such matters anyway. And even now, you can't come off your idee fixe
on SCI.J-K...
Regards,
Shrisha Rao
> Regards
> ~ajaz
dchat...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
In article <4ocrns$k...@opus.intellistor.com>, si...@intellistor.com
> sh...@nyx.net (Shrisha Rao) writes:
>
>>Please keep this rubbish off of SCI.J-K; your disgusting
>>hate-mongering is quite unbearable. Thank you very much. You did
>
> How many of these hate-mongering idiots do you plan to control
> brain-less creatures. The only thing you can do now to help the
> situation is to offer your *FULL* support for SCK.
>
> ~ajaz
Supporters of in Islamic terrorism always have viewed others (meaning
those who do not support terrorism) as enemies. Pestilences such as
the current responder, and a cabal of such bigoted creatures, cannot
and should not have their way. Thus, we should all vote NO to the
formation of SCK.
- regards,
deb chatterjee
(a good samaritan)
P.S.: No one is the keeper of SCIJ-K.
lover of words
The closest I've found is soc.culture.African.American
I am a high school teacher and would like a forum to discuss my own
feelings and obeservations about race and racism. I don't think this
fits the soc.culture group's mission.
Please share any info, thanks.
H.
Vivek Sadananda Pai
> now? The creation of SCIJK was like a shot-in-the-arm for such
> brain-less creatures.
This coming from someone who's refusing to even acknowledge the offers
of Indians to be co-moderators of soc.culture.kashmir. I especially
loved the recent post from a claimed Kashmiri that he would oppose SCK
if the proponents included an Indian moderator.
> The only thing you can do now to help the
> situation is to offer your *FULL* support for SCK.
Sorry - right now, SCK seems heavily anti-Indian, and it's a totally
moderated group, which seems to indicate that the pro-Indian voice
stands little chance of being heard.
Dr. Majid posts violates netiquette, and refuses to apologize even
when Rohan Oberoi makes a point that it's bad form. It seems that the
SCK moderation panel wants to answer to nobody but themselves, and,
well, I can cast my vote against the group. I expect others will as
well.
-Vivek
Ajaz Siraj
vi...@cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda Pai) writes:
~In article <4ocrns$k...@opus.intellistor.com>,
~Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com> wrote:
~> How many of these hate-mongering idiots do you plan to control
~> now? The creation of SCIJK was like a shot-in-the-arm for such
~> brain-less creatures.
~This coming from someone who's refusing to even acknowledge the offers
~of Indians to be co-moderators of soc.culture.kashmir. I especially
~loved the recent post from a claimed Kashmiri that he would oppose SCK
~if the proponents included an Indian moderator.
That only proves my point of how *polarized* the situation has
become. People on both sides are adamant about compromising with
the other. Don't you agree?
~> The only thing you can do now to help the
~> situation is to offer your *FULL* support for SCK.
~Sorry - right now, SCK seems heavily anti-Indian, and it's a totally
~~~~~~~
~moderated group, which seems to indicate that the pro-Indian voice
~~~~~~~~~
~stands little chance of being heard.
I fail to understand:
1. what you mean by "totally moderated"
2. how that makes SCK an anti-Indian
~Dr. Majid posts violates netiquette, and refuses to apologize even
~when Rohan Oberoi makes a point that it's bad form. It seems that the
There is a good explanation for what happened and if you want to know
look at my post on that subject. That issue, as far as we are
concerned, is closed.
~SCK moderation panel wants to answer to nobody but themselves, and,
Maybe you are thinking of SCIJK guys...how soon do we forget!
~well, I can cast my vote against the group. I expect others will as
No surprise here!! Your 'NO' vote has been expected and also the
reasons you gave. BTW, what happened to "Live and let Live" concept
that you all were proclaiming to live by?
Regards
~ajaz
~well.
~-Vivek
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <4og725$l...@opus.intellistor.com>,
Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com> wrote:
>vi...@cs.rice.edu (Vivek Sadananda Pai) writes:
>~This coming from someone who's refusing to even acknowledge the offers
>~of Indians to be co-moderators of soc.culture.kashmir. I especially
>~loved the recent post from a claimed Kashmiri that he would oppose SCK
>~if the proponents included an Indian moderator.
>
> That only proves my point of how *polarized* the situation has
> become. People on both sides are adamant about compromising with
> the other. Don't you agree?
I should have been more clear - I specifically used the words "recent"
and "claimed" to make my point: until now, we hadn't heard the claim
that the SCK backers were refusing an Indian co-moderator. Suddenly,
we start hearing it from the proponent, and then a previously unknown
person jumps in and wildly states it as his own belief.
In other words, I believe that the whole situation is a fraud and was
rigged. There - is that simple enough? I don't know how many people
are buying your dog-and-pony show.
> I fail to understand:
>
> 1. what you mean by "totally moderated"
As opposed to be auto-moderated or some other weaker form of
moderation.
> 2. how that makes SCK an anti-Indian
I didn't imply a cause-and-effect relationship. What I said was that
the moderators seem totally anti-Indian to the point where they don't
even want an Indian on the moderation panel, and since the group is
fully moderated, I expect that it'll be little more than a biased
propaganda platform, in the unlikely event it passes.
>~Dr. Majid posts violates netiquette, and refuses to apologize even
>~when Rohan Oberoi makes a point that it's bad form. It seems that the
>
> There is a good explanation for what happened and if you want to know
> look at my post on that subject. That issue, as far as we are
> concerned, is closed.
There is _not_ a good explanation for violating someone's trust and
posting their private e-mail without permission. You still don't seem
to understand that. Are you going to do the same once you guys are
moderators?
>~SCK moderation panel wants to answer to nobody but themselves, and,
> Maybe you are thinking of SCIJK guys...how soon do we forget!
scijk is unmoderated. That's the difference.
>~well, I can cast my vote against the group. I expect others will as
>
> No surprise here!! Your 'NO' vote has been expected and also the
> reasons you gave. BTW, what happened to "Live and let Live" concept
> that you all were proclaiming to live by?
Find any claim I made to that effect, and I will happily either recant
or change my vote. However, you won't find one, I bet.
-Vivek
Anup Pradhan
: >Please keep this rubbish off of SCI.J-K; your disgusting
: >hate-mongering is quite unbearable. Thank you very much. You did
: How many of these hate-mongering idiots do you plan to control
: now? The creation of SCIJK was like a shot-in-the-arm for such
: brain-less creatures. The only thing you can do now to help the
: situation is to offer your *FULL* support for SCK.
:
: Regards
: ~ajaz
OOOOOh please, do we have to go through this again!!! Both of you
guys (Siraj and Rao) are a bunch of low-forehead communal morons.
Get a life will ya?
Anup
Karen Lofstrom
Vivek Sadananda Pai (vi...@cs.rice.edu) wrote:
: Sorry - right now, SCK seems heavily anti-Indian, and it's a totally
: moderated group, which seems to indicate that the pro-Indian voice
: stands little chance of being heard.
: Dr. Majid posts violates netiquette, and refuses to apologize even
: when Rohan Oberoi makes a point that it's bad form. It seems that the
: SCK moderation panel wants to answer to nobody but themselves, and,
: well, I can cast my vote against the group. I expect others will as
: well.
I voted against the group. I was sorry to do so. I was disgusted by
the nationalistic rabble-rousing going on during the scijk vote, and I
did so hope that a neutral group could be established for Kashmiris,
by Kashmiris. However, I was extremely disappointed by way that the
sck proponents responded to critics and refused to broaden the
moderator panel or change the moderator policy. It would be utter
folly to create a controversial group controlled by two people, with
no provision for adding or removing moderators. That is asking for
problems.
If the vote fails, I hope that the proposal is revived in six months,
with an improved moderator policy.
--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A product of Happy People's Recycled Food Cooperative Division Three
-kludge-
Jonathan Grobe
In article <4odim3$i...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, hbo...@ix.netcom.com(lover of words) writes:
> The closest I've found is soc.culture.African.American
>
> I am a high school teacher and would like a forum to discuss my own
>feelings and obeservations about race and racism. I don't think this
>fits the soc.culture group's mission.
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Grobe gr...@netins.net
Ajaz Siraj
lofs...@lava.net (Karen Lofstrom) writes:
:I voted against the group. I was sorry to do so.
I am sorry to hear that.
:I was disgusted by
:the nationalistic rabble-rousing going on during the scijk vote,
This "rabble-rousing" has polarized our south-asian community to the
extent that neither side is willing to yeild. I think the responsibility
of this mess falls on the shoulders of the SCIJK proponents. Due to
this polarization we are being penalized by people like you voting
against us. Do you think its fair on us?
: and I
:did so hope that a neutral group could be established for Kashmiris,
:by Kashmiris.
That is exactly what we had in mind too and we had hoped that people
like you would support us.
:However, I was extremely disappointed by way that the
:sck proponents responded to critics and refused to broaden the
:moderator panel or change the moderator policy.
Our critics were asking us to add an "Indian" moderator to our panel
which we rejected for the following reasons:
1. Indians in general were opposed to the creation of SCK and having
them on the moderation panel might not have gained us any more
support from them than what we already had.
2. Having an Indian on our panel would have resulted in loss of
support from majority of the Kashmiries.
So you see, the creation of SCIJK put us in a difficult situation. On
one hand we would have liked to please our Indian friends (which, BTW,
we did try to do initially) but on the other we wanted to maintain support
of our community members.
BTW, would you have lobbied for a Chinese moderator for soc.culture.taiwan?
If the answer is YES then your concern is genuine.
:It would be utter
:folly to create a controversial group controlled by two people, with
:no provision for adding or removing moderators. That is asking for
:problems.
Umm.. I thought we had made it clear of how the new moderators can
be chosen. Browsing through various moderated newsgroups, I did not
come across any policy that was much different from ours. We are
not trying to be much different from other moderated ngs.
:If the vote fails, I hope that the proposal is revived in six months,
:with an improved moderator policy.
I respect your opinion and I thank you for your input, however, we
think we have a proposal now that will represent "voice" of Kashmiries
around the world, if only we are allowed to create it. I really do
not have much interest in reviving this episode if we fail to create
it this time.
The question you should be asking yourselves is "should Kashmiries be
allowed to create a newsgroup on Kashmir?", if the answer is YES then
vote for SCK.
~ajaz
:--
Karen Lofstrom
Ajaz Siraj (si...@intellistor.com) wrote:
: Our critics were asking us to add an "Indian" moderator to our panel
: which we rejected for the following reasons:
: 1. Indians in general were opposed to the creation of SCK and having
: them on the moderation panel might not have gained us any more
: support from them than what we already had.
: 2. Having an Indian on our panel would have resulted in loss of
: support from majority of the Kashmiries.
You seem to see "critics" as a homogenous group, with unalterable and
unreasonable demands. In fact, your critics were a random group with
many conflicting demands. You could have won over many of these
critics by addressing SOME of their issues. Of the millions of people
on Usenet, I'm sure that some would have been acceptable as additional
moderators. But rather than look for a solution, you simply declared
that there was an insoluble problem and moved ahead without making any
concessions at all.
: Umm.. I thought we had made it clear of how the new moderators can
: be chosen. Browsing through various moderated newsgroups, I did not
: come across any policy that was much different from ours. We are
: not trying to be much different from other moderated ngs.
You fail to make the distinction between moderated groups created in
the old days, when the norm was one moderator who appointed his/her
successor, and the groups now being created, which typically have a
moderator panel and elaborate provisions for removing or adding
moderators. This is being done because the old policy has failed in
many cases. If you do things the old way, you invite all the old
problems. I won't vote for that.
--
Karen Lofstrom lofs...@lava.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tender, smells of goat, with a deep blue mold skin,
dusted with charcoal.
Please Listen
In article <4onvfp$9...@opus.intellistor.com>,
Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com> wrote:
>
> This "rabble-rousing" has polarized our south-asian community to the
> extent that neither side is willing to yeild. I think the responsibility
> of this mess falls on the shoulders of the SCIJK proponents. Due to
> this polarization we are being penalized by people like you voting
> against us. Do you think its fair on us?
every news group proposal stands on its own merit. the only
relevance of sci.jk, here, is to raise the question of duplication.
and to the best of my knowledge, most objections to sck were
on the basis of its *bias* [against india-view] and potential for
bias, rather than any kind of polarization or duplication questions.
> Our critics were asking us to add an "Indian" moderator to our panel
> which we rejected for the following reasons:
i think most people were asking for making the moderator panel
*broad* based, or completely neutral. they did not ask for "indian"
moderator, but have asked for adequate safeguards to ensure
that india-views are not supressed. [joe B did suggest that
a pandit be included, but that was *after* the two moderators
for the group did not arounse confidence from many sections
involved in jammu-kashmir issue. and it was to make the panel
more broad based, again]. Shrisha rao even suggested completely
neutral parties to kashmir issue. but, the proponent did not
hear the theme of the suggestion.
> 1. Indians in general were opposed to the creation of SCK and having
> them on the moderation panel might not have gained us any more
> support from them than what we already had.
i can name off-hand several people who would have supported the
well-balanced sck proposal: shrisha rao, vivek s pai, uday reddy,
t s reddy, ashutosh razdan etc. the problem is not with sck, but
with the way it is proposed to be moderated in a *biased* style
against india.
> 2. Having an Indian on our panel would have resulted in loss of
> support from majority of the Kashmiries.
cat -milk-world-disappear! even if you close your eyes, you
know that you dont speak for kashmiris, but yourself. at least
for the purpose of rational discussion, can yo;u stop these
illusive pretensions? do you think others cant see how silly
such claims would be?
> So you see, the creation of SCIJK put us in a difficult situation. On
> one hand we would have liked to please our Indian friends (which, BTW,
> we did try to do initially) but on the other we wanted to maintain support
> of our community members.
> BTW, would you have lobbied for a Chinese moderator for soc.culture.taiwan?
> If the answer is YES then your concern is genuine.
having a *chinese* moderator for sctaiwan is not what is important.
whether the proposal for sc.taiwan has a bunch of moderators that
can through a cartel scuttle the voice of those who believe in
integration of taiwan with mainland china -- is what is signficant
in deciding to vote yes or no on such a proposal.
e
>:It would be utter
>:folly to create a controversial group controlled by two people, with
>:no provision for adding or removing moderators. That is asking for
>:problems.
> I respect your opinion and I thank you for your input, however, we
> think we have a proposal now that will represent "voice" of Kashmiries
> around the world, if only we are allowed to create it. I really do
> not have much interest in reviving this episode if we fail to create
> it this time.
practice shouting hundreds of times. and start believing what you
shout as facts. you might be arrogating yourself when you claim
to speak for kashmiris.
the problem is like what a cat thinks while sipping milk. it closes
eyes and believes the world is not watching. was not this point of
moderator issue specifically raised with concern? by neutrals?
> The question you should be asking yourselves is "should Kashmiries be
> allowed to create a newsgroup on Kashmir?", if the answer is YES then
> vote for SCK.
how are we to know if you are a kashmiri, for example? on usenet
there is no way of checking the passports. the question should
be whether there is need for a forum for discussion on jammu-
kashmir on the usenet, and my answer would be yes. sadly, though,
not a biased mouth piece as the present CFV on sck wants.
MoinA
>Sorry - right now, SCK seems heavily anti-Indian, and it's a totally
>moderated group, which seems to indicate that the pro-Indian voice
>stands little chance of being heard.
Writing anti-Indian is a criteria for CENSORSHIP. If any newsgroup on this
plnate is anti-Indian then it should NOT exist
By your criteria SCPAKISTAN should be demolished...
*************************************************************************
My home page:ftp://usman.imran.com/pub/articles/moin/)
Faisal's Education Mailing Lists-Taleemi Jamaat www Home Page:
http://www.tuns.ca/~fkharadi/taleem/TaleemiJ.html
Help us provide education for Pakistanis. Join the EML
MoinA
> I was disgusted by
>the nationalistic rabble-rousing going on during the scijk vote
Karen: And you are NOT disgusted on the nationalistic jingoism and
religious chest thunping that is being published on the SCIJK-. Every kook
in the country is posting Hare Krishna trehtoric on SCIJK. Wouldn't yuou
like a spot where you would at least see the OTHER point of view...or do
you wnat the "other" point of view MUTED!!!
Moin
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <4orhcc$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, MoinA <mo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I was disgusted by
>>the nationalistic rabble-rousing going on during the scijk vote
>
>Karen: And you are NOT disgusted on the nationalistic jingoism and
>religious chest thunping that is being published on the SCIJK-. Every kook
>in the country is posting Hare Krishna trehtoric on SCIJK. Wouldn't yuou
"Hare Krishna rhetoric"? I must've missed that - could you please post
some examples of it? I've seen the person who posts as "azaad" make
the same claims, and he got laughed off the group when he did. I
didn't see a single post talking about the Hare Krishnas, other than
the posts claiming that Tale and Russ Allbery were in alliance with
them.
-Vivek
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <4ohncc$8...@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>,
Anup Pradhan <a...@tattoo.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>OOOOOh please, do we have to go through this again!!! Both of you
>guys (Siraj and Rao) are a bunch of low-forehead communal morons.
>Get a life will ya?
I can tell from your post that you must be an expert at giving head-
shape analyses. However, you should make sure you don't swallow
everything you see, since most of the people making these sorts
of claims about Shrisha aren't backing them with any quotes from
what he's actually said, but with what's been said about him.
-Vivek
Jan Isley
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
moderated group soc.culture.kashmir
RATIONALE: soc.culture.kashmir
CHARTER: soc.culture.kashmir
Moderation Policy:
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.kashmir
END MODERATOR INFO.
HOW TO VOTE:
(example voter name) Voter Name: John Smith
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <4orh3n$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, MoinA <mo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Sorry - right now, SCK seems heavily anti-Indian, and it's a totally
>>moderated group, which seems to indicate that the pro-Indian voice
>>stands little chance of being heard.
>
>Writing anti-Indian is a criteria for CENSORSHIP. If any newsgroup on this
>plnate is anti-Indian then it should NOT exist
>
>By your criteria SCPAKISTAN should be demolished...
Quit being a moron, unless you are actually too slow to understand
what is being said, in which case you have my pity.
Here's the dumbed-down explanation for any other mouth-breathers
who didn't quite follow the logic the first time around:
a) the proposed moderators of soc.culture.kashmir consider Kashmir
a disputed territory
b) they have chosen the name SCK (rather than SCI.K or SCIJK) because
of the claim that it is a disputed territory
c) they claim that India is one of the parties in the dispute
d) they want a moderated newsgroup to discuss this dispute
e) they have actively rejected requests to have any neutral or
pro-India moderators in the moderation panel
In other words, they claim there exists a dispute, but do not have any
safeguards in place to ensure that both sides of the dispute will be
heard. _That_ is why I said what I did. I don't know where idiots
like you came up with the logic you did, but believe me, I don't give
a rat's ass what you or your friends think about India.
-Vivek
Gopal Saraswat
In article <4orh3n$n...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, MoinA <mo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>By your criteria SCPAKISTAN should be demolished...
Not a bad idea. You know, MoinA baby, it can be arranged; we do
have the votes.
--
Gopal Saraswat sara...@ix.netcom.com
satyam muktaye 'truth shall set you free'
Joe Bernstein
Reasons for Voting on soc.culture.kashmir (moderated)
As usual with a controversial newsgroup proposal, the opponents and
supporters have come up with a lot of reasons for voting either way on
this one. I believe IÄ…ve been the most active participant in the debate
who is not of South Asian descent, and I think IÄ…ve seen my share of these
suggested reasons for voting. There are, however, relatively few reasons
which are considered acceptable justifications for casting a Usenet vote.
Most of these reasons (either way) have in fact been propounded on this
one.
One possible outcome of the vote is that the proposal will be defeated
despite considerable numbers of YES votes. The proposalÄ…s history, and in
particular the connection which has been drawn between it and another
recent proposal whose course was extraordinary
(soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir, hereafter scij-k), have led many to
believe that if the outcome is defeat, an effort will be made to have the
group newgrouped anyway, i.e., to have the vote overridden. Such an
effort will have credibility only if the group can be presented as an
innocent victim of an unwarranted NO-voting campaign.
I expect to vote NO, for one of the reasons listed below; I hope, however,
that before the voting period ends that reason will be nullified, in which
case IÄ…ll vote ABSTAIN instead. This is, however, a personal reaction to
the fact that scij-k, which I considered about equally flawed, also got an
ABSTAIN from me. I am, to all intents and purposes, an opponent of the
proposal in the CFV, and the primary purpose of this post is to document
reasons which I consider valid ones for NO votes. In other words, I do
*not* think soc.culture.kashmir is any kind of innocent victim if it gets
defeated. Instead, I think itÄ…s become a victim of its own proponentÄ…s
unwillingness to compromise. (By the way. If the proposal is *not*
defeated, I will of course drop all opposition, as I did with scij-k.)
In any event, reasons for YES and NO votes are listed below, in an effort
to be fair. IÄ…m organising this post around the fundamental canonical
reasons for voting, rather than by reviewing the entire debate thus far.
Others are welcome to post their comments; I generally disapprove of
posting during the voting period, but am making this exception because of
the above-described situation; I donÄ…t expect to post on this subject
again until the vote is over, unless I find that I have to retract
something following.
Joe Bernstein
REASONS FOR VOTING YES
Canonical reasons for voting YES on a proposal boil down to two categories:
1) The proposal is good for a group I expect to read in the future.
2) A YES vote is good on Usenet policy grounds.
The latter reason is very restricted. A few people consistently vote YES
to counter the Å‚professional NO votersË›, presumably because they disagree
with those votersÄ… presumed opinions (see below). A few people routinely
vote YES on moderated groups, or *.misc groups, to counter similar NO
voter contingents. Almost any other principle of selection for YES votes,
on groups you arenÄ…t interested in, turns into a matter of political
voting, which is the ultimate Bad Thing in Usenet votes. Usenet votes are
meant to measure the groupÄ…s prospects for drawing the interest of
readers, so as to justify the disk space the group will take up on
thousands of computers; political voting for a group you *wonÄ…t* use is
therefore unacceptable. This is why, for example, I often vote ABSTAIN;
itÄ…s (except with scij-k, where it was a mistake) my way of indicating
that I basically approve of a proposal IÄ…ve looked at and discussed on
Usenet, without voting YES improperly.
So reasons for voting YES all boil down to groups a YES vote might be good for.
{{soc.culture.kashmir}} Anyone whoÄ…s confident he or she will read the
proposed newsgroup, as proposed, certainly ought to vote YES.
{{soc.culture.india.*}} or {{soc.culture.pakistan.*}} In the scij-k
debate, the claim was made (though not, if I recall correctly, by the
proponent) that the perpetual cross-posted Kashmir flamewar going on on
these groups would gravitate to scij-k, and thus a vote for scij-k was a
vote to clean these groups up. Needless to say, it hasnÄ…t worked out that
way. The sck proponent and supporters have not insulted our intelligence
by making the same claim.
{{news.groups}} During the scij-k debate, the perpetual cross-posted
Kashmir flamewar for a while took up residence on news.groups. IÄ…m pretty
sure if the proponent had compromised on the name, a number of us regular
news.groups readers could have justified YES votes simply to get rid of
that flamewar. As it is, the flamewar has mostly left anyway; itÄ…s not
much trouble to deal with, compared to our home-grown flamewars, and we
have no similar reason to vote YES here.
Offhand, I canÄ…t think of any other groups soc.culture.kashmir, as
proposed, would affect; others are of course free to pitch in.
REASONS FOR VOTING NO
Surprise... there are more of these.
Again they boil down to a couple of categories.
1) The proposal is bad for a group I expect to read in the future.
2) A NO vote is good on Usenet policy grounds.
But there are a bunch of sub-categories, especially of 2) ‹ because it
*isnÄ…t* improper to vote NO selectively on groups you donÄ…t expect to
read. (Although proponents routinely complain about that...)
1) a) The proposal will harm a group I already read, by dividing its
readership or some such. (Usually involves proposals for splits.)
1) b) The proposal establishes a group I would like to read, but does it
in such a bad way that itÄ…s better to vote it down and try again in six
months; I wouldn't find the badly established group worth reading.
2) a) I systematically vote NO on (all groups, moderated groups, *.misc
groups, etc.) for Usenet policy reasons.
2) b) The name is bad and will thus harm Usenet namespace.
2) c) The moderators are bad and will thus create a bad newsgroup where
(in namespace) a better newsgroup could have gone.
2) d) The charter is bad (see 2) c)).
2) e) The proponents have behaved so badly that a NO vote is an
appropriate way of telling proponents not to do so in future.
IÄ…m not altogether sure about 2) e). I guess one standard case of this is
where proponents refuse to provide traffic numbers to justify their
proposals. Two recent examples I followed were rec.music.white-power,
where many people gave this as a reason for voting NO, and
soc.culture.sindhi, where the issue died and I doubt anybody will vote on
this basis. (I didnÄ…t.) In general, I think traffic is best tested by
the number of YES votes. I may soon vote NO on rec.arts.sf.dune, because
the proponent agreed to change the name but broke that agreement, and that
falls under 2) e) (I donÄ…t really care about the name myself). A proposal
whose proponent engaged in blatant vote fraud would deserve NO votes on
this basis, if such a thing were ever proven in time. All the same, 2) e)
should be used carefully.
Getting back to soc.culture.kashmir, and going one at a time...
1) a) The proposal will harm a group I already read, by dividing its
readership or some such. (Usually involves proposals for splits.)
The existing traffic on scij-k consists mostly of the cross-posted Kashmir
flamewar. What little non-cross-posted content there is comes from people
who disavow any interest in soc.culture.kashmir. Therefore I have a hard
time imagining that the proposal will harm scij-k; this is not a valid
reason for a NO vote. I canÄ…t imagine this proposal harming any other
newsgroup at all.
1) b) The proposal establishes a group I would like to read, but does it
in such a bad way that itÄ…s better to vote it down and try again in six
months; I wouldn't find the badly established group worth reading.
Quite a few people have indicated that their NO votes fall into this
category. In all honesty, I feel compelled to note that I saw few of
these people posting on scij-k when it was new, and few of them were
opponents of scij-k who would have avoided the group. Ironically, the
foremost exception *was* an opponent of scij-k, I mean Uday Reddy; but
with the exception of him, IÄ…m not entirely confident the people who give
this as a reason for a NO vote have any real interest in Kashmir.
However, most of those people are also regular readers of news.groups and
voters on Usenet policy grounds, so letÄ…s move on to those reasons for NO
votes.
2) a) I systematically vote NO on (all groups, moderated groups, *.misc
groups, etc.) for Usenet policy reasons.
Not much to say about this... There are Å‚professional NO votersË›, about
20 of them, who will presumably vote NO here too, because they think
groups should need more than 100 votes to pass. (At least thatÄ…s the
usual theory about these people.) It is not proper to join this group, or
the larger groups who consistently vote against moderated or *.misc
groups, for one occasion.
2) b) The name is bad and will thus harm Usenet namespace.
Nope. This is what was wrong with scij-k, fundamentally. (The rationale
was also bad, but since rationales die when the group is created, so
what?) The topic has been endlessly debated, but (yet again) given the
existence of soc.culture.quebec and soc.culture.kurdish,
soc.culture.kashmir is definitely an appropriate Usenet newsgroup name.
2) c) The moderators are bad and will thus create a bad newsgroup where
(in namespace) a better newsgroup could have gone.
Well, paydirt at last...
This one comes in two parts. First, the allegation has been made,
endlessly, that the two moderator candidates being on one side of the
hotly debated political issues concerning Kashmir, they will approve only
postings they agree with. Various opponents have called for them to
accept at least one fellow-moderator who either is of an opposed
persuasion (this has been, for example, my position) or is neutral
(ironically, the position of Shrisha Rao, scij-kÄ…s proponent).
They have responded in various ways. (I might note that on this, and on
other issues, the proponent proper was astonishingly silent.) First, they
say they sought fellow-moderators some time ago; in any event, various of
us then commenting on the proposal sought volunteers on news.groups and
other groups. The only people who came forward were people who failed
either of the qualifications described above‹Asim Mughal, who is decidedly
not of the pro-India persuasion sought (being, unusually, pro-Pakistan),
and me, also not pro-India (I favour a plebiscite, like the government of
Pakistan; also, I hardly volunteered seriously). At this time, the
moderators also pointed out that various candidates lacked one
qualification or another (e.g., that such-and-such a person didnÄ…t speak
Kashmiri). Unfortunately, with the qualifications being stated so
haphazardly, the process did not look credible.
More recently, the moderator candidates have commented 1) that with this
result, no further appeal for moderators makes sense; 2) that in any
event, it makes no sense to think theyÄ…d torpedo the group by making it
boringly one-sided. TheyÄ…ve also remarked on a single post from a
supporter, indicating that a pro-India moderator would lose his/her vote,
and blaming the scij-k proposal for polarising opinion. One better piece
of evidence for this last claim is the fact that two people meeting all
known qualifications (Ashutosh Razdan and Anila Bhan) did appear, but
refused appeals to join the moderator panel.
Also recently, Vivek Pai has volunteered. Unfortunately, this happened
just as the CFV was appearing, so has not been seriously considered.
Some of us have suggested that a new call, with definite qualifications,
might succeed and would in any event absolve the proponent of blame for
the outcome. Others have remarked on the desirability of a neutral
moderator (which implies an entirely different set of qualifications).
Neither of these views has really been answered.
I personally will not vote NO on the basis of the above, but I think itÄ…s
a valid reason to vote NO, whether for outsiders or for people who might
otherwise read the group.
Recently, Mr. Reddy has accused a proposed moderator of a basic violation
of netiquette (and for that matter copyright, in most countries anyway),
namely, posting private e-mail. The moderator candidate in question has
replied by defending this practice. Although several people (Mr. Reddy
and me, opponents; alix aka piranha, neutral; Rohan Oberoi, supporter)
tried to convince him this was improper, we have yet to see an apology,
retraction, etc. from him. (His fellow candidate for moderator did
apologise, rather sarcastically; but nobodyÄ…s accused him of
misunderstanding netiquette in the first place.)
IÄ…m firmly convinced that moderators who post private e-mail, thinking
this is proper, are bad for Usenet. On this ground, I expect to vote NO.
However, I still sincerely hope that we will, in fact, see an
apology/retraction, in which case I will ABSTAIN.
The moderator candidate in question strikes me as an honourable man. IÄ…ll
have no difficulty believing any apology or retraction he posts. If he
has posted such, and IÄ…m in error here, *please* supply the postÄ…s date
and message-ID, and IÄ…ll be happy to be corrected.
A final note. Some people have criticised the moderator candidates for
having strong views, or for stating them strongly. Baloney, I say. For a
group like this with built-in controversies, IÄ…d rather see moderators who
flame, and are thus likely to sympathise with othersÄ… wishes to flame,
than moderators who are exquisitely courteous and nice, and thus are
likely to eviscerate the group they run. Flames arenÄ…t always worthless
on Usenet. The proposed moderators include one who flames and one who's
extremely courteous by and large; looks like a good combination to me.
And anybody who cares enough about a topic to moderate a newsgroup about
it, is guaranteed to have strong views. This last reason, in other words,
is *not* a valid reason for a NO vote as far as I'm concerned.
2) d) The charter is bad (see 2) c)).
IÄ…ve made a number of specific suggestions for improvements to the
charter. No specific replies were ever made, and I see mixed results in
the charter. (Specifically, there is now an END CHARTER line, but the
moderator replacement policy, which I recommended be more detailed, has
been removed completely.) The main concern I had -- there's nothing
requiring the moderators to notify posters whose posts are rejected -- is
now supplemented by the lack of any provision at all for moderator
replacement. This combination strikes me as a *possibly* valid reason to
vote NO, although probably not enough by itself.
A lot of revealing discussion has taken place lately on news.groups about
the powers of moderators to, in effect, replace the charter of their
newsgroup. (This discussion gains pertinence with David LawrenceÄ…s recent
decision that heÄ…s unwilling to permit votes that unseat existing
moderators.) In this regard, see the paragraphs above under 2) c). The
discussion of this topic has generally boiled down to one question: are
these people to be trusted? For purposes of what soc.culture.kashmir
claims to do, IÄ…m not convinced the answer is yes; nor are many of those
who say they're interested.
2) e) The proponents have behaved so badly that a NO vote is an
appropriate way of telling proponents not to do so in future.
This may also be a valid reason for a NO vote in this case. While
obstinate proponents are pretty common on news.groups, we donÄ…t really
have any obligation to let them get their way. The proponent in this case
has not, to my knowledge, broken his word, engaged in campaign fraud, or
done anything else that really *demands* punishment; nobody should
consider it an *obligation* to oppose this proposal, by any stretch of the
imagination.
On the other hand, he has shown a truly remarkable unwillingness to
compromise. The only compromises I'm aware of are 1) the addition of a
second moderator; 2) the addition of an END CHARTER line. The first was
the only bow to massive concern over moderators; the second is the example
I gave several times of the most trivial of the technical changes I
suggested. I think an appropriate response for a news.groups reader,
after many months of Å‚Take it or leave itË›, has got to be Å‚Leave itË›.
Particularly here, where the uncompromising proponent has been
consistently defended by someone who claims heÄ…ll be flexible as a
moderator...
A related issue concerns the number of months this has actually been going
on. It appears that Mr. Lawrence made an exception by allowing this
proposal to go to a vote without a second RFD. The proponent and
moderators certainly should not be blamed for Mr. LawrenceÄ…s decision, but
it would be very nice to see *some* explanation from *someone*. I suppose
someone could make a case for a NO vote as a way of objecting to
exceptions, but I don't think that would be appropriate.
Enough said. I trust IÄ…ve established that there *are* valid reasons for
people to vote either YES or NO vote. I trust that in this vote, the
usual procedures will be respected. IÄ…ll oppose any effort to do
otherwise.
I've retained most of the CFV, in the following, but removed the Rationale
and the procedure sections.
In article <8337661...@uunet.uu.net>, usenet...@mathcs.emory.edu wrote:
> LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
> moderated group soc.culture.kashmir
>
>Newsgroups line:
>soc.culture.kashmir Social, cultural and political forum on Kashmir.
(Moderated)
>
>Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996.
>
>This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
>Proponent: Altaf A. Wani <aw...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>Votetaker: Jan Isley <j...@bagend.atl.ga.us>
>
[snipped Rationale]
[snipped How to Vote, etc., to the end of the CFV]
--
Joe Bernstein, free-lance writer and bookstore worker
speaking for myself and nobody else j...@sfbooks.com
Joe Bernstein
In article <DsCrG...@ecf.toronto.edu>, go...@ecf.toronto.edu (Please
Listen) wrote:
Honestly, Gopal. Whatever gave you the idea that GANAPATHIRAJU Shree
Ramana was hard for us stupid Americans to remember? Or why else did you
change monikers?... Just wondering...
Joe
Ajaz Siraj
a...@tattoo.ed.ac.uk (Anup Pradhan) writes:
:OOOOOh please, do we have to go through this again!!! Both of you
:guys (Siraj and Rao) are a bunch of low-forehead communal morons.
:Get a life will ya?
Thankyou for your analysis..I'll take your advise and "get a life"
as it were. However, do vote for our non-communal newsgroup proposal
on Kashmir if you really want to help.
BTW, with all my differences with Shrisha on the creation of SCIJK,
I will not call him *communal*, _irresponsible_ maybe but not communal.
Cheers
~ajaz (the low-foreheaded communal moron) ;-)
:Anup
Please Listen
[this is being posted; and also being emailed as a reciprocal
courtesy]
In article <joe-060696...@stars.pr.mcs.net>,
where did i make a reference to "Americans"? i am still of the
view that usenet transcends national boundaries.
any way, the simple reason to change monikers is ask you to
"listen". and that is all to it! i do not mind whatever spelling
you use to refer to me, as long as i understand that i am
being addressed. JM refers to me as Shrisha-Rao-enforcer and
goonda, yet i read his posts!
gopal
P.S.
not that i am pricky, but did you see that you *have* mis-spelt
my name?! if you dont believe: try finger go...@ecf.toronto.edu
Gharib Hanif
j...@sfbooks.com (Joe Bernstein) wrote:
>Reasons for Voting on soc.culture.kashmir (moderated)...[snip]
Joe, you forgot to mention two other reasons:
(1) Your anti-Islamic agenda.
(2) Your pro-Indian stance.
-- Help to stop Indian state terrorism. Boycott Indian goods. -----------
Visit the Kashmir Web site at:
http://www.ummah.org.uk/kashmir/ - updated: 26/3/1996.
http://www.ummah.org.uk/kashmir/atroc - atrocities list - updated 3/2/96
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Bernstein
In article <83427491...@gharib.demon.co.uk>,
ha...@gharib.demon.co.uk (Gharib Hanif) wrote:
>j...@sfbooks.com (Joe Bernstein) wrote:
>
>>Reasons for Voting on soc.culture.kashmir (moderated)...[snip]
Kind of you not to write, here, "mega-snip". :-)
>
>Joe, you forgot to mention two other reasons:
>
>(1) Your anti-Islamic agenda.
>
>(2) Your pro-Indian stance.
Gharib, for the sake of the friendly contact we used to have, I'll
actually answer this...
First, by noting that neither of those two "reasons" would be worth my
posting, since neither would in any way inform any other voter. (I can
just see it: "Vote NO on sck because I'm anti-Islamic!" Yeah, right...)
Going on:
I'm not anti-Islamic. Sorry. In a number of recent conflicts, notably
including those in Bosnia, Palestine, and India, my sympathies have been
with Muslims. Being personally an atheist, I find Islam less fully
comprehensible than some other religions, because it is more specifically
focused on belief in God and less on particular myths or rituals. But
isn't that description -- from a Muslim point of view -- actually a
compliment?
Most of my studies in recent years have had to do with history,
specifically the history of literature. In a couple of months I expect to
start reading a lot of Muslim literature, beginning with a translation of
the Qur'an. Maybe then I'll have more of a definite take on Islam and we
can talk further. Meanwhile, you might check out my recent postings on
soc.culture.iranian as examples of how "anti-Islamic" I am.
To a certain extent, I am pro-Indian. I think that country's ability to
maintain something approximating democracy for several decades now is
quite astonishing. I'm grateful for many of the things Indian
civilisation has contributed to the rest of the world. For that matter,
given some research I did a decade ago, and some of the research I'm doing
now, I'm grateful in particular for the books India has sent to American
research libraries.
However, given all that, I should maybe note that that research led me to
believe I was fundamentally *out of accord* with some basic aspects of
Indian civilisation; I grew to care a good deal about it, but I doubt I'll
ever love it. And, in particular, that research led me to believe that
the Vedic rshis were a bunch of ignorant herdsmen who had nothing to do
with the rise of Indian civilisation. I don't believe that's usually
considered a "pro-Indian" stance; it certainly isn't anything the BJP
would promote.
Oh, and on the particular question of Kashmir, the post you replied to
said, and I repeat, that my opinion on Kashmir, for what little it's
worth, is that there should be a plebiscite, as agreed to these many
decades ago, and as (in any event) is sort of the obvious thing to do in
such cases. (As witness the recent breakup of Czechoslovakia.) Since
that position is the official position of the Government of Pakistan, and
is heatedly opposed by the Government of India, at least as concerns
Kashmir, I fail to see how I can be called "pro-Indian".
Now can we get back to talking about newsgroups?
Joe Bernstein
Jan Isley
RESULT
moderated group soc.culture.kashmir fails 453:1993
soc.culture.kashmir results - 2446 valid votes
Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
453 1993 | No No | No | soc.culture.kashmir
134 invalid votes
Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
group may not be voted on again for six months.
Newsgroups line:
soc.culture.kashmir Social, cultural and political forum on Kashmir. (Moderated)
Votes closed on 23:59:59 UTC, 14 Jun 1996.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
RATIONALE: soc.culture.kashmir
CHARTER: soc.culture.kashmir
Moderation Policy:
END CHARTER.
MODERATOR INFO: soc.culture.kashmir
END MODERATOR INFO.
Voted YES
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ras...@ns2.emirates.net.ae Syed Rashid Ali
sza...@ns2.emirates.net.ae Zawar Haider
m961...@huntsman.cse.rmit.edu.au Salman Farooq
mas...@metz.une.edu.au Muhammad Ashfaq
shus...@metz.une.edu.au Muhammad Sajid Hussain
fs9...@uow.edu.au Waqas Sheharyar MALIK
et06...@student.uq.edu.au Ahmad Dahlan
Z.K...@biochem.usyd.edu.au Zaffar Khan
s.k...@uws.edu.au Shahed Anwer Khan
a...@melbpc.org.au Ash Nallawalla
phu...@innet.be Patrick Hublou
ma...@vcn.bc.ca Azizullah Mahar
ae...@freenet.carleton.ca Nigel D Allen
m_a...@ECE.concordia.CA Masood Ahmad
ms_s...@ECE.concordia.CA Muhammad Shakeel Siddiqui
ht...@ee.mcgill.ca Hazem Nasereddin
nau...@nortel.ca Nauman Khizar
bk...@freenet.toronto.on.ca Naeem Siddiqi
RA...@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA Ijaz Rauf
geh...@triumf.ca Javed Gehlen
kh...@triumf.ca Naimat U Khan
jmcg...@uoguelph.ca James McGarry
hah...@cs.usask.ca Haikel Hichri
elfa...@lighthouse.usask.ca Said Elfakhani
muf...@mackenzie.usask.ca Muhammad Farooq
Saleh_A_A...@mackenzie.usask.ca Saleh Aboreshaid
moj...@mail.usask.ca Mohammad Omaer Jamil
OGU...@sask.usask.ca I Oguocha
e0fk...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
ka...@smokey.forestry.utoronto.ca Kazi Islam
apdo...@math.uwaterloo.ca Allan Donsig
nad...@yucc.yorku.ca Nadeem Siddiqi
kha...@actel.com KHALID AHMED
FBu...@corp.adaptec.com Farrukh Burney
saj...@altagroup.com Syed Jafri
qamar....@amail.amdahl.com Qamar JAWAID
wqur...@win.ameridata.com Waqar Qureshi
Hu...@aol.com Hussein Jawad
Isph...@aol.com Imran Isphani
mo...@aol.com Moin Ansari
NAR...@aol.com Nargis Fatima
Sanga...@aol.com Sangarmaal
gpai...@atmsys.com Gurjeev S Paintal
m...@cbsignal.cb.att.com Muhammad Arshad
c...@sitar.jazz.att.com Charan Bhatia-nscst-tnt
za...@cutter.ds.boeing.com Ahmed B Zayan
kausar...@boeing.com Kausar Talat
na...@Cadence.COM Nasir Junejo
bapa...@calweb.com Mohd F Haron
dc...@cftnet.com Dave
ok...@cisco.com Omar Khan
qur...@cisco.com Imran Qureshi
zk...@cisco.com Zulfiqar Khan
10054...@CompuServe.COM Waseem Bashir Siraj
mi...@cris.com Mirza Rahmatullah Baig
moha...@cris.com Mohammed Abdul Qaudeer
na...@cris.com Nadir Khalid Elzein
jaf...@ctron.com Ali A Jaffri
m...@unx.dec.com Mazen Mokhtar
wa...@distinct.com Wajid Fiaz
nra...@ea.com Raheem, Nasir
ova...@edify.com Ovais Quraishi
aaw...@erols.com Azeem Rao
re...@faamail.fail.com Ali Reza
aji...@ford.com Amin Jibril
sh...@ford.com Syed M Hoda
mma...@ccm.frontiercorp.com Muhammad Malik
ha...@smds57.crd.ge.com Omar A Hasan
Jim...@gnn.com Jim Riley
zia....@gs.com Zia Iqbal
ssu...@utopia.hclt.com S Suresh
Tayya...@notesgw.hns.com Tayyab Alam Khan
sa...@e2403roc.nsr.hp.com Saeed Hashmi
alp...@hwmark.com Ramesh S Narain
tariq_...@ccmail.inetinc.com Tariq Hassan
uk...@mipos2.intel.com Umair Khan
si...@Intellistor.COM Ajaz M Siraj
pa...@interlog.com Trevor Tymchuk
sse...@village.ios.com Faisal Sehbai
muka...@isi.com Mukarram Nasri
Ahmed_Naumaa...@epccmail.itron.com Ahmed Naumaan
ahu...@krinfo.com Asim Husain
jav...@lexmark.com Javaid A Siddiqi
an...@lightstone.com Anas Mughal
sh...@manhattanmultimedia.com Shea Writer
LATI...@Mattel.com Latif, Asma
yu...@mediacity.com yusuf abed
a-ni...@exchange.microsoft.com Nirupama Shrivastava
akh...@MICROSOFT.com Akhlaq H Khatri
azf...@MICROSOFT.com Azfar Moazzam
ma...@MICROSOFT.com Mohammad Shabbir Alam
ram...@microsoft.com Raman Subramanyam
kha...@cig.mot.com Mohammad N Khan
sha...@cig.mot.com Arif Shamim
g...@mdd.comm.mot.com Brian Gix
mk...@mpc-uk.com Masud Ahmed Khan
ol...@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar
ba...@ix.netcom.com Basit Hussain
tgr...@ix.netcom.com Tom Griffin
soh...@netcom.com Sohail Qureshi
wa...@netcom.com Waqar Malik
ra...@nsd.com Rauf Ali Adil
SL...@us.oracle.com Shoaib Lari
gail...@panix.com Ed Gaillard
im...@panix.com Imran Anwar
mir...@pentasys.com Mohammad Irfan
km...@ny.psca.com Kristen Maki
aamir_...@pscwa.psca.com Aamir Moghal
apo...@pscwa.psca.com Apoorva Muralidhara
bruce_...@pscwa.psca.com Bruce LeSourd
dbr...@pscwa.psca.com Donald Brady
dmo...@pscwa.psca.com Dawn Morse
jfos...@pscwa.psca.com Jason Fosback
kh...@pscwa.psca.com Shehryar Khan
rsh...@pyramid.com Rao Shoaib
iza...@qualcomm.com Irfan Zaman
jb...@qualcomm.com Javed Butt
mar...@skypoint.com Mariam Ispahani
afi...@gatwick.geoquest.slb.com John Afilaka
kh...@gatwick.geoquest.slb.com Sharaf Khan
che...@sparco.com Mubashir Cheema
mi...@sparco.com Ghulam M Mian
Shahnawaz_Soomro_a...@stream.com shahnawaz soomro
mustaf...@swec.com Mustafa Ahmed
jaf...@Synopsys.COM Jaffer Hussain
zee...@loc100.tandem.com Zeeshan Shafaq Syed
ari...@taronga.com Stephanie da Silva
sa...@daldd.sc.ti.com Ahmad Saqib Asdi
qz...@toraag.com Qamar Jawaid
umar....@twcable.com Umar Hamidi
m...@smtpgwy.roadnet.ups.com Imtiaz Fakhruddin
sra...@uswest.com Arshad Razvi
bgh...@visa.com Bilal A Ghayur
daljee...@tempe.vlsi.com Daljeet Sidhu
junai...@tempe.vlsi.com Junaid Omar
kh...@wangfed.com Omar Hyat Khan
al...@wco.com Altaf Bhimji
csc9...@sting.cycollege.ac.cy Amir Aqeel
man...@et.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Atif Mansoor
nau...@alumni.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Naufal A Khan
umra...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu Malik Rahman
a...@cns.bu.edu Aijaz Ahmed Baloch
bha...@cs.bu.edu bhatti ghulam
IF...@enga.bu.edu Iftekhar Mahmood
f...@indus.bu.edu Fawad Rauf
ha...@indus.bu.edu qadeer hasan
m...@indus.bu.edu Muzaffar Khurram
na...@indus.bu.edu Nasir Shah
pa...@byu.edu Robert Craig Harman
tter...@flute.aix.calpoly.edu Thomas D Terrell
mug...@alumni.caltech.edu Asim Mughal
to...@ugcs.caltech.edu Toby Bartels
m...@columbia.edu Mohib N Durrani
on...@anise.ee.cornell.edu Oneeb Bin Saadat
as...@mae.cornell.edu Asif Khalak
fx...@po.CWRU.Edu Faisal Jahangiri
jx...@po.CWRU.Edu Jehanzeb Masud
mx...@po.CWRU.Edu Mehr Nigar
FA...@DAVIDSON.EDU Fahd
gan...@mathcs.emory.edu Ganesh K Pandian
amem...@ACC.FAU.EDU Amir Memon
mcho...@ACC.FAU.EDU Mohammed Amjed
szai...@ACC.FAU.EDU Syed Zaidi
ssid...@ruby.cse.FAU.EDU Shehzad Siddique
ame...@cse.fau.edu Memon Ali
fk...@cse.fau.edu Fahad Khan
sil...@cse.fau.edu Syed Ilyas
SL...@mail.firn.edu Suzanne Marie Slay
faf...@osf1.gmu.edu Faisal Afzal
sma...@osf1.gmu.edu Syed S Masood
zk...@osf1.gmu.edu Ziad Mahmood Khan
ab...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Abbas Zaidi
aa...@nedhmail.nedh.harvard.edu Ahmad N Ali
me...@hawaii.edu Muhammad Pervaiz Meer
zk...@iastate.edu Zaffar M Khan
bha...@charlie.cns.iit.edu Shahzad Bhatti
MCHA...@grove.iup.edu M D Chaubey
bumg...@jmu.edu Lee S Bumgarner
aa...@turbo.KEAN.EDU Abdul Rauf Anis
smus...@knox.edu Shahab Mushtaq
AKH...@mathsci.msci.memphis.edu Munir Akhtar
raga...@mednet.med.miami.edu Ram Agarwal
AC41...@mu2.millersv.edu Aasma Chaudhary
ir...@gnu.ai.mit.edu Iraj Mughal
afr...@MIT.EDU Khurram Khan Afridi
mhu...@MIT.EDU Mansoor Husain
phe...@MIT.EDU Bilal A Bhutta
rag...@pegasus.montclair.edu Raghib Muhammad
aa...@Ra.MsState.Edu Atif Ahmad Khan
2067...@MSU.EDU John Stone
mma...@nuvlsi.coe.neu.edu Muhammad Masood
smc...@hertz.njit.edu Shoaib M Chaudhry
ais...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Ayman Ismail
gw...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Gulzar Wani
aw...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Al Wani
kar...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Shahid Karim
akh...@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj Akhtar
mi...@er4.eng.ohio-state.edu Rizwan M Mir
am...@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Amer Alshawa (Abu Amin)
qay...@ENGR.ORST.EDU Mazhar Qayyum
ars...@ucs.orst.edu Muhammad Arshad
mal...@ucs.orst.edu Zafar Malik
osma...@osu.edu Asif Osman
wahe...@osu.edu Mian Waheed
SSTA...@CC.OWU.EDU Saad Tabani
syed...@pitt.edu Syed Ziaul Haq
ma...@cac.psu.edu Sohail Malik
kha...@cs.purdue.edu Wasfi G Al-Khatib
naj...@cs.purdue.edu Ahmad Najmi
sai...@cs.purdue.edu Mohammad Bashayir Said
ba...@ecn.purdue.edu Shahab Baqai
far...@ecn.purdue.edu Farhan Baqai
kh...@ecn.purdue.edu Imran Khan
naj...@ecn.purdue.edu Ahmad Jamal Najmi
isl...@mail1.its.rpi.edu Asad Islam
shus...@gandalf.rutgers.edu Shehzad Hussain
ta...@seattleu.edu Tariq Rathore
ha...@camis.stanford.edu Zaki Hasan
sheh...@CS.Stanford.EDU Shehzaad Nakhoda
az...@leland.stanford.edu Azer Mustaqeem
na...@leland.Stanford.EDU Krishna S Nayak
om...@leland.Stanford.EDU Omer M Saeed
zaa...@leland.Stanford.EDU Amir Najmi
ah...@nova.stanford.edu Bilal Ahmad
ca...@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu Mentor Cana
zu...@cat.syr.edu Mansour Zuair
fsq...@MailBox.Syr.Edu Fozia S Qazi
fz...@MailBox.Syr.Edu Farrukh Zia
megi...@MailBox.Syr.Edu Mustafa Egilmezbilek
msal...@MailBox.Syr.Edu Mubarak S Al-dosari
sa...@MailBox.Syr.Edu Sami A Beg
din...@npac.syr.edu K Dincer
warr...@kashmir.tamu.edu Khalid Sarwar Warraich
pau...@astro.ocis.temple.edu Pam Austin
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H Miller
jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu Jay Maynard
uq...@casper.med.uth.tmc.edu Usman Qazi
ad...@zirc.chem-eng.toronto.edu Adel Esayed
har...@zirc.chem-eng.toronto.edu Haroon Ikram Sheikh
cha...@control.toronto.edu Ahmad Hassan Chaudry
jase...@eecg.toronto.edu Muhammad Jaseemuddin
sag...@eecg.toronto.edu Mazen Saghir
MXSA...@SHOCKER.EE.TWSU.EDU Muhammad Saleem
mikh...@gsbpop.uchicago.edu Imran Khalid-Khan
as...@ea.oac.uci.edu Asad Hamid
Magsoo...@UC.Edu Maqsood A Wani
mo...@me.udel.edu Ahmed Monib
ka...@UDel.Edu Obaid Kazmi
ka...@UDel.Edu Zubaid Kazmi
f...@helios.tcad.ee.ufl.edu Faisal Hameed
tab...@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu Tariq Aslam Buchh
txs8...@tree.egr.uh.edu Tariq Siddiqui
wan...@UH.EDU Waqass Anwar
RHO...@novell.uidaho.edu Rhonda C Wittorf
abdo...@uidaho.edu Zaid Abdo
ahme...@uidaho.edu Ishfaq Ahmed
chen...@uidaho.edu Hailong cheng
jabb...@uidaho.edu Mohamed Jabbes
kale...@uidaho.edu Mohammed Kaleemullah
olso...@uidaho.edu Steven M Olson
rabb...@uidaho.edu Fazli Rabbi
sano...@uidaho.edu Zie Sanogo
seri...@uidaho.edu Serikjan Urbisinov
yass...@uidaho.edu shahram yassemi
zaho...@uidaho.edu Adnan Zahoor
ir...@sugar.age.uiuc.edu Irfan S Ahmad
far...@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu Farooq Saeed
kh...@geoserv.isgs.uiuc.edu Latif Khan
pa...@nazgul.ecs.umass.edu Nilanjan Palit
ekh...@gl.umbc.edu Erum Khan
sa...@isr.umd.edu Rana Ahmad Saad
mat...@engin.umich.edu Moideen K Mathari
o...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu Omar Haydar
qa...@cs.umn.edu Mahmood G Qadir
ash...@gibbs.oit.unc.edu Mohammad Ashraf Chaudhary
corr...@skyraider.ecn.uoknor.edu Mohammad Affan Badar
ba...@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu Azhar Basit
mah...@sas.upenn.edu Mansoor Ahmad
sar...@up.edu Mansoor Sarwar
mo...@chaph.usc.edu Zuhair Moin
oth...@chaph.usc.edu Abd-Allah Othman
su48...@uscolo.edu Mohammad Shoaib Sultan
ash...@cis.usouthal.edu Amer Saeed Sheikh
sb9...@u.cc.utah.edu SALMAN BANDAY
il...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Ilyas Mohammed
wer...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Werner Unbekannt
sha...@ece.utexas.edu Saghir Shaikh
ms...@dayhoff.med.virginia.edu Maria S Santisteban
F45E033%SAKSU00...@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU Abdulhameed Y Al-Mazroo
F60C019%SAKSU00...@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU Rached Zantout
th...@maxwell.ee.vt.edu Ziyad Al-Mojaddidi
zan...@vt.edu Zafar Ansari
rah...@ece.eng.wayne.edu Gulzar Mohammad
chau...@students.wisc.edu Chaudhri Abdul Rauf
sam...@WPI.EDU mohammed sameer junaid
s00...@discover.wright.edu SYED HAQ
aha...@eecs.wsu.edu Ameer Hassan
wide...@cc.helsinki.fi Risto Widenius
raj...@sindhu.pp.sci.fi Niranjan Rajani
arc...@hsc.fr Vincent Archer
Ollivie...@hsc.fr Ollivier Robert
Fraz....@masi.ibp.fr Fraz AHMAD
ba...@dge.insa-tlse.fr Shafaat BAZAZ
ab...@insa-tlse.fr ATHAR ABBAS
qay...@firtech.lri.fr Amir Qayyum
al...@bnl.gov Altaf Mubaraki
j...@hammer.msfc.nasa.gov J Porter Clark
cs...@cs.ust.hk Iftikhar Ahmed
ai...@str.eqe.hiroshima-u.ac.jp Amian
gu...@doboku2.ace.nitech.ac.jp Supratic Gupta
jau...@softlab.is.tsukuba.ac.jp Jauhar Ali
mr...@telekom.com.my Mohd Razain Mohd Noor
dr...@pc.jaring.my Zakaria Jusoh
hi...@pc.jaring.my Hibah
yaa...@pc.jaring.my Yaccob Omar
y...@pl.jaring.my Ahmad Farid bin Abdul Aziz
s...@fsmk.ukm.my Saidah Saad
ta...@access.digex.net Tahir
has...@cnj.digex.net Atiqullah Hashmi
ih...@pak.win-uk.net IHSAN IBN ASLAM
jmub...@washington.xtn.net Jamal Mubarak
D.Ban...@ET.TUDelft.NL D Banerjee
tla...@amug.org Todd C Lawson
lo...@cshl.org Muhammad A Lodhi
as...@un.org Asma Kamal
aye...@un.org Ayesha Kamal
kha...@azad.sdnpk.undp.org Khawar Azad
om...@alpha.edunet.sdnpk.undp.org Omar Ghaffar
160%sah...@edunet.sdnpk.undp.org Talha Waheed Sulemani
am...@edunet.sdnpk.undp.org Syed Mohammad Amir Husain
has...@iban.sdnpk.undp.org Hassan Raza Naqvi
ser...@v4dev.sdnpk.undp.org Serhat Khan
ka...@un.org Ahmad Kamal
qa...@zaman.fsd.brain.com.pk Qamar uz zaman
ra...@lion.brain.com.pk Shamim Raza
ham...@mah.brain.com.pk M A Hameed
ir...@msalman.brain.com.pk Irfan Iqbal
af...@sofserv.brain.com.pk Aftab Butt
ah...@sofserv.brain.com.pk Ahmed Hassan
no...@sofserv.brain.com.pk Noman Haider
ra...@sofserv.brain.com.pk Muhammad Raza
fai...@wizards.brain.com.pk Faisal Rauf Alvi
soh...@wizards.brain.com.pk Sohail Rauf Alvi
am...@biruni.erum.com.pk Mohammad Aminuddin
a...@biruni.erum.com.pk SHARIQ RAZA
hai...@biruni.erum.com.pk Hassan Haider Malik
ja...@biruni.erum.com.pk Jaffar Raza
mka...@biruni.erum.com.pk Muneer Kazmi
us...@biruni.erum.com.pk Syed Hamid Akhtar Bari
nas...@akhtar.isb.erum.com.pk Naseer Akhtar
az...@home.khi.erum.com.pk Aziz Ahmed
fa...@ppi.khi.erum.com.pk Fazal Qureshi
ad...@style.khi.erum.com.pk Adeel Zafar Soomro
ka...@syed.khi.erum.com.pk Syed Azfar Kazmi
akh...@kunjah.lcci.lhr.erum.com.pk Muhammad Akhtar Mirza
us...@crypto.psw.erum.com.pk Engineer Usman Riaz
b97...@lums.edu.pk Salahuddin Khawaja
b98...@lums.edu.pk Abdullah Akhtar
b98...@lums.edu.pk Armughan Javaid
b98...@lums.edu.pk Syed Ali
pen...@bilalm.brain.net.pk Bilal Muddassir
hus...@ap2gh.fsd.brain.net.pk Ghulam Hussain
j...@tcl.brain.net.pk Junaid Ahmad Mahoon
at...@infolink.net.pk Muhammad Sajjad Khan Athar
shah...@infolink.net.pk Rehan Sadiq
abd...@paknet1.ptc.pk Abdul Aziz
abid...@paknet1.ptc.pk Abid Minhas
ahm...@paknet1.ptc.pk TAHIR MAHMOOD
alit...@paknet1.ptc.pk NAVEED TARIQ
aut...@paknet1.ptc.pk Amjad Riaz
com...@paknet1.ptc.pk Abdul Aleem
daw...@paknet1.ptc.pk Akhter Jamal
eas...@paknet1.ptc.pk JAWED MANGRANI
exp...@paknet1.ptc.pk Khalid Ahmad Khan
far...@paknet1.ptc.pk Farrukh Shahzad
gul...@paknet1.ptc.pk Goheer, Muhammad Ahmad
hme...@paknet1.ptc.pk Hafiz Allah mehr
hy...@paknet1.ptc.pk Khalid Hyder
ie...@paknet1.ptc.pk Faiz Muhammad Khan
imr...@paknet1.ptc.pk Imran Ahmed
ish...@paknet1.ptc.pk Ishrat Jameel
itr...@paknet1.ptc.pk itraf ahmed
ja...@paknet1.ptc.pk Muhammad Javed Iqbal
jmus...@paknet1.ptc.pk Javed Mushtaq
jusm...@paknet1.ptc.pk Asad Qayyum
kam...@paknet1.ptc.pk Kamran Karim Kundi
kha...@paknet1.ptc.pk Khalid Qureshi
khur...@paknet1.ptc.pk Taqdees Ahmed Siddiqi
mas...@paknet1.ptc.pk Hasan Masood Khan
mec...@paknet1.ptc.pk Amer Hafeez
mua...@paknet1.ptc.pk Ahmad Muaz Qamar
mun...@paknet1.ptc.pk Aamir Shaheen
nau...@paknet1.ptc.pk Nauman Bader
pak...@paknet1.ptc.pk Shahrukh Afzal
reh...@paknet1.ptc.pk rehan ahmad
sal...@paknet1.ptc.pk salman qutb
sarf...@paknet1.ptc.pk Mohsin Mustafa
sja...@paknet1.ptc.pk Shahid Jamil
supe...@paknet1.ptc.pk Moeen Ashfaq Khawaja
syb...@paknet1.ptc.pk Omar Khalid
tab...@paknet1.ptc.pk Tabish Ali
ta...@paknet1.ptc.pk Tariq Rashid
ulti...@paknet1.ptc.pk Adnan Bader
voia...@paknet1.ptc.pk voia tele tech
wam...@paknet1.ptc.pk Wameez Mohyuddin Kadri
was...@paknet1.ptc.pk Kh Wasif Mustafa
za...@paknet1.ptc.pk Zahid Raza Naqvi
zah...@paknet1.ptc.pk Zahid Shafiq
sha...@ccse.kfupm.edu.sa Muhammad Shahid Shafiq
eus...@exu.ericsson.se Aqeel Ahmed Siddiqui
fou...@trym.Fysik.UU.SE Fouzia Saleem
Inga.H...@patologi.uu.se Inga Hansson
Mohammad...@patologi.uu.se Mohammad Farooque
bal...@bornova.ege.edu.tr Ozgur Balsoy
mt...@aber.ac.uk Matthew Joseph Smith
eeu...@bangor.ac.uk Wasim Ahmed
ijac...@chiark.chu.cam.ac.uk Ian Jackson
Naeem...@cl.cam.ac.uk Naeem Khan
sp...@cardiff.ac.uk Imran Ali Chaudhry
A.Z...@city.ac.uk Arshad Zaman Khan
ja...@city.ac.uk Jamal Pasha
S.A....@dundee.ac.uk Syed a Kazmi
9169...@udcf.gla.ac.uk zahra al-lawatia
mzkh...@glam.ac.uk KHAIRI MOHD ZAIN
aa...@doc.ic.ac.uk Awais Abbas Kharal
ai...@sun.engg.le.ac.uk Aamer Iqbal Bhatti
phs...@south-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk Iftikhar Ahmad Khan
pj...@leicester.ac.uk Pete Humble
H.Ga...@lse.ac.uk Haris Gazdar
I.S.Mu...@student.lut.ac.uk Imran Mughal
c...@clw.cs.man.ac.uk Charles Lindsey
M.N.A...@newcastle.ac.uk muhammad nadeem asghar
aby...@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Mirza Ali
cc...@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Shafiq Ahmed
pmz...@unix.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Reza Aslam
A.H...@sheffield.ac.uk ASIF HAYAT
ECA9...@sheffield.ac.uk Umi MAT NOH
gbv...@soton.ac.uk G B Varsani
s...@st-andrews.ac.uk Syed Zaka Ahmed
ashiq....@unn.ac.uk Ashiq Qurban
IM...@rlsclare.agw.bt.co.uk Imam, Syed
KOT...@rlsclare.agw.bt.co.uk Kotwal, Imtiaz
NAH...@rlsclare.agw.bt.co.uk Nahami, Khurshid
bha...@craycom.co.uk Zulf Bhatti
muk...@abdullah.demon.co.uk Mukhtar
ha...@gharib.demon.co.uk Gharib Hanif
n...@hasan.demon.co.uk Naj Hasan
kas...@demon.co.uk Abdul Majid
za...@dircon.co.uk www.ummah.org.uk
akr...@globalnet.co.uk Khalid Akram
ba...@private.nethead.co.uk Saber H Elahi
Mujahid.Is...@nortel.co.uk Mujahid Islam
Voted NO
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a...@dar.csiro.au Ashok Luhar
Arvind...@library.anu.edu.au Arvind Kalia
m...@rip.it.bond.edu.au Hemant Goenka
rag...@rip.it.bond.edu.au Raghav Mundhra
to...@rip.it.bond.edu.au Rahul Todi
vi...@rip.it.bond.edu.au Rahul Sharma
som...@latcs1.cs.latrobe.edu.au Somnath Ghosh
jant...@tropical.com.br Jose Antonio B Alvarenga
san...@cr-df.rnp.br Sandra
so...@verao.cce.ufes.br Paulo Antonio de Souza Junior
odi...@cce.ufes.br Odimar Deusdara Rodrigues
ade...@guarany.cpd.unb.br Aderbal Carlos de Oliveira
ga...@guarany.cpd.unb.br Vijayendra K Garg
geo...@guarany.cpd.unb.br George George Cajaty Barbosa Braga
oa...@guarany.cpd.unb.br Antonio Cleves Nunes Oliveira
re...@guarany.cpd.unb.br Reva Garg
so...@tritium.fis.unb.br Maria Aparecida G S Pajanian
tsa...@freenet.calgary.ab.ca Tanvir Sadiq
aba...@ccs.carleton.ca Ashutosh Bagchi
p...@sce.carleton.ca Jogalekar Prasad Prabhakar
sw...@ECE.concordia.CA M N Srikanta Swamy
cha...@sunmta.disem.ndhq.dnd.ca Anil Chandan
arv...@nortel.ca Arvind Shanbhag
bh...@nortel.ca shreya (s.) bhat
dow...@nortel.ca Naveen Dowlat
kb...@nortel.ca kong (k.) bhat
mash...@nortel.ca rama (r.) mashetty
mava...@nortel.ca Jayshree K Mavankal
mee...@nortel.ca Meena Chockalingam
nara...@nortel.ca Narayan Parameshwar
ne...@nortel.ca Neena Kumar
pat...@nortel.ca Phenil Patadia
rag...@nortel.ca Ravi Gupta
same...@nortel.ca Sameer Mukund Gokhale
sar...@nortel.ca Saravanan Rajaram
sar...@nortel.ca Sarvesh Sharma
sha...@nortel.ca Mohammed Shaikh
sun...@nortel.ca Sundeep Sawhney
tum...@nortel.ca Rambabu Tummala
vi...@nortel.ca Vivek Sawant
aj...@sickkids.on.ca Ajay Pandita
av...@freenet.toronto.on.ca Sanjai Kukreti
sar...@qucis.queensu.ca Nilanjan Sarkar
kgu...@cs.sfu.ca Sanjay Kumar Gupta
vik...@ee.ubc.ca Vikram Devdas
sr...@acs.ucalgary.ca Surajit Roy
vksh...@acs.ucalgary.ca Vijay Kumar Shrivastava
ra...@zeus.ee.unb.ca Sreeraman Rajan
bha...@unb.ca Virendra C Bhavsar
f0...@unb.ca Prasad Gokhale
man...@marge.genie.uottawa.ca Mrinal Mandal
bd09...@er.uqam.ca ToMMy BoY
e0fd...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca Sumesh K Gupta
e0fe...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca RAJPUT Sanjay
e0fe...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca KOHLI VIKAS
e0fk...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca KUMAR RAVI
nina....@utoronto.ca Nina Patel
s.u...@utoronto.ca Sanjay Uppal
sumersing...@utoronto.ca Sumer Singh Chauhan
apma...@neumann.uwaterloo.ca Arunprasad P Marathe
rkra...@neumann.uwaterloo.ca Raj K Rathee
ne...@iis.ee.ethz.ch Matthias Neeracher
vij...@NSD.3Com.COM K Vijayaraghavan
rkoul@abn_dev.abn.com sandhya sehgal
roy@abn_dev.abn.com Saibal Roy Chowdhury
ana...@smtplink.acer.com Anand Bhairat
j...@acusoft.com Jagadeesh Kasaraheni
mpal...@mv.us.adobe.com Muru Palaniappan
pad...@plaza.ds.adp.com Padmini Iyer
ssh...@strider.Advent.COM Sandeep Shroff
agar...@agcs.com SHALINI AGARWAL
bap...@agcs.com Ananda Bapat
chik...@agcs.com Ravi C S
da...@agcs.com Raju Dani
sun...@agcs.com N Shyam Sunder
wil...@agcs.com J G E Wilson
unm...@nit.AirTouch.COM Unmesh S Mayekar
coo...@akaMail.com Piyush Mittal
phb...@mech06.aud.alcatel.com P H Bhatt
ala...@rdxsunhost.aud.alcatel.com Sridhar Alagar
jrp...@rdxsunhost.aud.alcatel.com Jitesh
pill...@vikingship.aud.alcatel.com Ramesh Pillutla
bha...@aur.alcatel.com Devesh Kumar Bhatnagar
deva...@aur.alcatel.com Thyagaraj DEVASIGAMANI
sab...@aur.alcatel.com Vineet Sahni
kam...@mamba.alcie.com Kamal Gupta
GDAS...@ALLMERICA.COM GARGI DASGUPTA
am...@altair.com Amar Laud
sha...@altair.com Shashikant M Deshpande
goda...@altech.com Mahesh Godavarti
prabhak...@amail.amdahl.com Prabhakar K A Nair
ashu...@oes.amdahl.com Ashutosh Agharkar
Kishore....@amd.com Kishore Pondugula
Rajesh.Me...@amd.com Rajesh Kumar Mellacheruvu
Sachindra....@amd.com Sachindra Sudunagunta
Saji....@amd.com Saji George
sriniva...@amd.com Srinivas Sunder
Umesh.Sh...@amd.com Umesh Shirsalkar
AKHIL.C...@x400gw.ameritech.com AKHIL CHANDRA BISWAS
BHARAT....@x400gw.ameritech.com Bharat BhushanPrasad
MANOJ....@x400gw.ameritech.com Manoj Nair
SHARATH...@x400gw.ameritech.com Sharath Kumar Beedu
rosemary_k...@mail.amsinc.com Rosemary Kirubakaran
sameer_...@mail.amsinc.com Sameer Chauhan
Az4b...@aol.com Muhammad Azhar
Prash...@aol.com Prashanth Bhat
Rajka...@aol.com Rajeev Kasturi
RVa...@aol.com Raj Varma
SANT...@aol.com Santhosh
SDatt...@aol.com Sankar Datta
Shez...@aol.com Mahadevan Shezian
Som...@aol.com Sujoy Karanjee
Turni...@aol.com Pritish Nandy
TVer...@aol.com Tejendra Verma
sekar_bala...@ccgate.apl.com Sekar Balasubramaniam
je...@apple.com Jeetendra Kaul
bi...@aspentech.com Srinivas Bingi
ala...@atkc.com A C Lahiri
rcha...@atkc.com Ramalingeshwar Chandrabhatta
am...@atlgr.com Dharam Amin
aj...@allegra.att.com Ajay Deshpande
nan...@allegra.att.com Sadanand M Gogate
l...@edisun.cb.att.com D Lokhande
a...@fuwutai.att.com Anish Kelkar
dso...@fuwutai.att.com Aaron P D'Souza
pso...@maxwell.gic.att.com Pankaj Sogani
ne...@hogpa.ho.att.com Sanjeeva Gupta
vi...@hogpa.ho.att.com Alok Vijay
rdi...@kingfish.ho.att.com R Dixit
p...@taz.ho.att.com Prasad P Manikonda
ame...@ulysses.homer.att.com AMEETHA
ha...@ulysses.homer.att.com Haridas P Ramakrishnan
r...@ulysses.homer.att.com Raghunath Gopalakrishnan
kan...@psp.ih.att.com Kannan Srinivasan
kris...@psp.ih.att.com S Krishnan
sasi...@psp.ih.att.com M N Sasidhar
ach...@jolt.att.com Tinku Acharya
ab...@karin.att.com Abhinav Dhar
r...@mhcnet.att.com Rakesh Chadha
rev...@mink.mt.att.com Revathi Bhimavarapu
fot...@mtnet1.mt.att.com Shivi Fotedar
ra...@mtunp.att.com Ravi Adusumilli
rn...@njebmail.njeb.att.com Rajikumar Nair
nar...@pez.att.com P S Narayanan
an...@imagate1.ucs.att.com AJAY NUNA
mna...@imagate1.ucs.att.com Mona Nadgonde
pgo...@imagate1.ucs.att.com Paresh Gondalia
psa...@imagate1.ucs.att.com Parag Sathaye
ni...@ucs.att.com Nigam Shah
rse...@ulysses.att.com Raj Seelam
pa...@caepo1.columbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM Gyani, Param
ro...@majik35.ColumbiaSC.ATTGIS.COM Rohit Seth
Jitin....@att.com Jitin Parikh
cobra-fddi!si...@atrmail2.attmail.com Siva K Gowravaram
underdog!pbah...@atrmail2.attmail.com Prakash Bahumanyam
cvssys3!rta...@cvssys1.attmail.com rtalwar
hsa...@tables.attmail.com H V Sahay
Manjul...@att.com Manjula Rao
Narendr...@khan.Avalon.COM Narendra Phadke
Krishn...@avanticorp.com krishnakumar Sundaresan
AKH...@email.averydennison.com Akhave
ch...@avid.com Charudatt
Giris...@notesp.baan.com Girish Naik
Pandey...@bah.com Pandey Arvind
SARAFAW/ENKA_NTF02//US/TELEMAIL/BASF////@basfx400.parsippa.basf-corp.com
Anil Saraf
amah...@BayNetworks.COM Arun Mahajan
ana...@BayNetworks.COM Anand Ramachandran
calvin...@BayNetworks.COM Calvin Nguyen
har...@BayNetworks.COM Harbans Lal
m...@BayNetworks.COM Manoj Wadekar
rah...@BayNetworks.COM Rahul Kasralikar
Rajaraman_...@BayNetworks.COM Rajaraman Subramanian
sd...@BayNetworks.com Sanjoy Dey
vkas...@BayNetworks.COM Vamsi Kasturi
che...@bell-labs.com Cheenu Srinivasan
sne...@bigcat.bellcore.com Snehal Prajapati
sw...@bigcat.bellcore.com Suhas Joshi ]
Bharathi_...@notes.cc.bellcore.com Bharathi Mallampati
Ish_K._A...@notes.cc.bellcore.com Ish K Ahluwalia
kjs...@ctt.bellcore.com Kshitij Shah
sva...@monolith.bellcore.com Somesh Varma
man...@voltron.bellcore.com Manish
Devendra_M...@bbs.bellsouth.com Devendra Moharir
Raman_Ad...@bbs.bellsouth.com Raman Adlakha
adh...@best.com Arun Dhital
rk...@best.com Rajat Singh
stai...@bga.com Dwight Brown
dsrin...@pcs.bls.com Deepak Srinivasan
gkri...@pcs.bls.com Ganesh Krish
Kamal_Shah...@smtp.bnr.com Kamal Shah
Rajesh_R_Mut...@smtp.bnr.com Rajesh Rao Mutty
urs...@atc.boeing.com Upender R Sandadi
sreenath_g...@bose.com Sreenath Gajulapalli
raj...@boxer.com Rajesh P Thakkar
korr_...@bridge.com Korr Reddy
sbol...@develop.bsis.com Srinivas Bolisetty
kupe...@sickbay.az05.bull.com kupendra shivapuram
Sanjay_MOY...@ccmgate.busobj.com Sanjay Moyya
sda...@divinci.C-Cube.COM SANJOY DATTA
sdi...@divinci.C-Cube.COM Satyananda DIXIT
sjo...@divinci.C-Cube.COM Satish V Joshi
an...@cadence.com Anand Bemra
che...@cadence.com Chetan R Chaudhari
k...@cadence.com K Venkata Kishore
pra...@cadence.com Pravil Gupta
ri...@cadence.com Rajesh Iyer
sth...@cadence.com Samuel Thomas Poozhikala
sur...@cadence.com K Suresh
mah...@alpo.casc.com Mahesh Ganmukhi
ptal...@alpo.casc.com Prasad Talwalkar
rr...@alpo.casc.com Roshan Rao
gn...@derby.casc.com.casc.com Girish Nair
bhaska...@cbis.com Bhaskara Reddy D
pares...@cbis.com Paresh Shah
vijay....@cbis.com Vijay Vonguru
SPa...@cbsichg.cbsinc.com Shriyal Padte
r...@cfdrc.com Ramakrishnan Sukumar
Shiva_Nath...@cfipro.com Shivaguru Nathan
UKa...@cfipro.com UMESH R KALWIT
ra...@cftnet.com Praveen Raina
ch...@cgi.com Sandeep Chand
RD...@chevron.com Radha Ram
SA...@chevron.com Suresh Sankla
VL...@chevron.com Vardarajan Lakshmi
ram...@chronologic.com Ramesh Padala
vij...@chronologic.com Vijeta Kashyap
K...@chrysler.com K Vedam
ja...@corp.cirrus.com jagannadha Rao Chetlapalli
kh...@crystal.cirrus.com Kashif Haq
aku...@cisco.com Aruna Kumar Muvvala
git...@cisco.com Itagi Gopikrishna
jku...@cisco.com Jayakumar Ramalingam
kmu...@cisco.com MURALI
mka...@cisco.com KANNAN
msr...@cisco.com Srinivas Mysore
pakk...@cisco.com Praveen Akkiraju
ra...@cisco.com Ravi Srinivasan
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Rajeev Yadav
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Ka...@msn.com Karan Khanna
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vsa...@msn.com Victor Samson Mohandoss
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rahu...@st.com Rahul Kaw
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pv...@idc.tandem.com P V Bhaskara Ramarao
rra...@idc.tandem.com R Rangarajan
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vij...@idc.tandem.com K Vijay Kumar
vpr...@idc.tandem.com Venkatesha Prasad K N
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ach...@tekelec.com Shekhar Acharya
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rmi...@tellabswireless.com Rajesh Mishra
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nir...@india.ti.com Nirmal K Mukhi
pal...@india.ti.com S Palani
ud...@india.ti.com S Udayakumar
vapa...@india.ti.com Vishnu A Patankar
vi...@india.ti.com Vishwajeet Uddanwadiker
vi...@india.ti.com B Visweswara Rao
ARC5.D...@dpcbgw1.itg.ti.com Archana Arkanath
bh...@micro.ti.com Bhasi Kaithamana
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ma...@chuckster.mtc.ti.com Manivannan Gnanavelu
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sr...@ti.com Sri Jandhyala
ki...@trillium.com Kishore Ramisetty
ni...@trillium.com Nishi
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rama...@tti.com Ram Vaidyanathan
go...@txc.com Praveen Goli
ra...@crayola.UB.com Krishna Raju
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srin...@unison.com Srinivas Jandhyala
ven...@unison.com Venkatesan N R
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amah...@sjeng1.sj.unisys.com Anoop Maheshwari
gsi...@sjeng1.sj.unisys.com Gautam Sinha Thockchom
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rma...@usr.com Ravi Mantri
gve...@vms2.mnet.uswest.com Veeraragavan
rahul_kulkar...@msmgate.mrg.uswest.com Rahul Kulkarni
sandeep_kulka...@msmgate.mrg.uswest.com Sandeep Kulkarni
npa...@milton.ecte.uswc.uswest.com Narendra Babu Parandhaman
sku...@uswest.com Sanjay D Kulkarni
spr...@uswnvg.com Sanjay Prasad
ash...@uts.com Ashish Jadhav
ra...@uts.com Rajendra Modak
UNAG...@ventritex.com Uday Nagendran
BIN...@sfov1.verifone.com Binu Raj
mala...@verifone.com Malay Bhatt
vi...@veritas.com Vivek Gupta
cha...@videonics.com chandra sivasubramaniam
mukesh...@videonics.com mukesh sayani
rmedi...@ccmail.viewlogic.com Raja Medicherla
sri...@wcdf.viewlogic.com Srikant Gokulnath
har...@viewlogic.com Harish K Chaudhry
zzzj...@sanjose.vlsi.com M S Janardhanan
Nitesh...@ustc.vlsi.COM Nitesh Mehta
skha...@vzcorp.com Sandeep V Kharkar
ve...@waccess.com Abhijit Shah
murugesan....@wcom.com Murugesan Paramasivan
Murali.Ka...@wellsfargo.com Murali Kal
Prakas...@wellsfargo.com Ojha, Prakash
sin...@aa.wl.com Kanak Singh
Sri....@corp.wrgrace.com Sri Mirle
Jawahar_B._Sh...@xerox.com Jawahar Shah
vineet...@Xilinx.COM Vineet Gupta
vivek...@Xilinx.COM Vivek Popli
su...@dhar.xo.com Sunil Dhar
gde...@xpoint.xpoint.com Gaurang Desai
B.Ba...@zds.com Brahmanand Bantwal
jacob....@zeitnet.com JACOB ABRAHAM
swami....@zeitnet.com Swami Ganesan
k3ee...@siiks.a1.bosch.de Ganesh Tekkatte
hav...@fh-pforzheim.de Vasista H S
umesh.kum...@sap-ag.de Umesh Kumar Borikar
vishal...@sap-ag.de Vishal Kapur
R=Ranganathan%SCSE3%SCS_Ba...@banyan.mch.scn.de Ramkumar Ranganathan
SCS...@mch.scn.de Sajith Sankar
hemant...@blr.sni.de Hemant Savla
iqla...@sni.de Iqlas M Ottamalika
kuma...@sni.de S Senthil Kumar
ram...@sni.de R Sam
ravi...@sni.de ravi
pol...@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de Andreas Polzer
mani...@informatik.uni-ulm.de Manindra Argrawal
e91b...@kommsrv.RZ.UniBw-Muenchen.de Valipe Ramgopal Rao
SUDHANSHU.S...@LEC.LECNET.dk400.dk Sudhanshu Sharma
ni...@arl.arizona.edu Nirav Merchant
dee...@cs.arizona.edu Deepak Kumar Lakhanpal
raj...@cs.arizona.edu Rajesh Sundaram
gove...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu Satish Goverdhan
RAVI....@ASU.Edu Ravi Kumar Jupudy
sak...@asu.edu Sakthivara Prasad Peddamatham
Harish.C...@Eng.Auburn.EDU Harish Waghray
kar...@Eng.Auburn.EDU Sankar Jayanarayanan
kesa...@Eng.Auburn.EDU Parthasarathy Kesavan
pro...@eng.auburn.edu Probal Banerjee
sam...@eng.auburn.edu Sameet B Rajguru
Samir....@Eng.Auburn.EDU Samir R Shah
san...@Eng.Auburn.EDU S Phani
sri...@Eng.Auburn.EDU Sharath C Srinivas
vis...@Eng.Auburn.EDU Vishwenath S Kizhapandal
cha...@mail.auburn.edu Nagaraj G Chatakondi
kul...@mail.auburn.edu Shirishkumar Kulkarni
s...@nigiyaka.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Sundar Iyer
bh...@swordfish.EECS.Berkeley.EDU Anu Bhat
kris...@EECS.Berkeley.EDU Sriram C Krishnan
pri...@uclink.berkeley.edu Pritesh H Dagli
app...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Apparao Kandru
scat...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Sobhan Chandu Atluri
vre...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Venudhar ReddY
aku...@acs.bu.edu AMIT KUMAR
hal...@acs.bu.edu Biswanath Halder
kr...@acs.bu.edu Ashish Samuel Krupadanam
pkas...@cgl.bu.edu Prakash Kasturi
wat...@ACSU.Buffalo.EDU Sandeep Wattal
kha...@eng.buffalo.edu Ashutosh Khandelwal
r...@bedstraw.calstate.edu Ram Kakulawaram
pra...@atlantis.caltech.edu Pradeep R Guduru
a...@kennel.caltech.edu ASEEM MEHTA
sd...@andrew.cmu.edu Sumit Duttachowdhury
Girija....@GS138.SP.CS.CMU.EDU Girija Narlikar
as...@fourier.ece.cmu.edu Ashit Talukder
mah...@spot.Colorado.EDU Roop L Mahajan
parr...@spot.Colorado.EDU Rajan P Parrikar
Balakrishn...@Colorado.EDU KUMTHEKAR BALAKRISHNA
gu...@colorado.edu Kuldip C Gupta
pra...@CS.ColoState.EDU Praveen Kumar A
san...@cuplvx.ap.columbia.edu M K Vijaya Sankar
sam...@cs.columbia.edu Sameer Nene
cl...@columbia.edu Christopher Lodge Stamper
dn...@columbia.edu Dilip Deodhar
ba...@sofia.mae.cornell.edu Badri Seshadri
vi...@ecst.csuchico.edu Vivek R Prabhu
cs90...@mcs.csuhayward.edu Sujatha Nagarajan
cs3...@s1.csuhayward.edu Sujata Ashok
kal...@engr.csulb.edu Kalpana Kakulawaram
so...@gaia.ecs.csus.edu Sanjay P Soni
sac1...@saclink1.csus.edu Tejas Jani
RE...@ecsuc.ctstateu.edu Madhu Reddy
dx...@po.CWRU.Edu Deepak Aggarwal
samp...@acpub.duke.edu Sameer M Prabhu
v...@acpub.duke.edu Vikas Chawla
v...@acpub.duke.edu Vinayak D Bhat
k...@ee.duke.edu Kishor Trivedi
sg...@ee.duke.edu Sachin Garg
agho...@cse.fau.edu Anant Ghotkar
jsch...@fiu.edu Jennifer J Schulke
sgho...@fiu.edu Sabyasachi Ghoshray
ra...@xi.cs.fsu.edu Rajagopal Ramchandran
pko...@cc.gatech.edu Prince Kohli
s...@cc.gatech.edu Srinivas Doddapaneni
vgu...@cc.gatech.edu Vipul Gupta
va...@cne.gmu.edu Srinivas Upadhyaya
nra...@osf1.gmu.edu Nisha Raina
rbel...@gmu.edu Raghavendra Bellary
ram...@ionchannel.med.harvard.edu Manjunath K Ramarao
lper...@hawaii.edu leon pereira
dh...@cs.iastate.edu K Kishore Dhara
par...@cs.iastate.edu Rajesh G Parekh
ind...@iastate.edu Indira Shukla
nagr...@iastate.edu Nupur Agrawal
nil...@iastate.edu Nilesh Savargaonkar
ro...@iastate.edu rohit tripathi
ru...@iastate.edu Rita Sanzgiri
r...@iastate.edu Ruta Y Waghmare
s...@iastate.edu Saikumar, Mungara
scha...@iastate.edu Sriram Chavali
ram...@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu Ramesh Chaudhari
mj...@cs.indiana.edu Manoj Jain
ss...@indiana.edu Sridhar Samu
are...@ISI.EDU Anoop Reddy
RGS...@grove.iup.edu Ramesh Soni
sola...@tech.iupui.edu K Solaiyappan
BR...@ceaxp3.ce.jhu.edu Pavit S Brar
c...@chi.ece.jhu.edu Raman Venkataramani
siv...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu Krishnamoo Sivakumar
rva...@ccaix.jsums.edu Rajesh Varma
r...@stallion.jsums.edu Raja Mahendra Parmar
rva...@stallion.jsums.edu Rajiv Varma
v...@stallion.jsums.edu Venkatraman O Iswaran
p...@cis.ksu.edu Raghuram K Pillalamarri
p...@engg.ksu.edu Pavan Jella Kumar
chi...@ksu.ksu.edu Parag R Chitnis
ma...@engr.LaTech.edu Omesh Malik
spa...@eagle.liunet.edu Shailendra Palvia
bha...@bit.csc.lsu.edu Bharat Kumar Guntupalli
k...@ee.lsu.edu Subhash Kak
eer...@unix1.sncc.lsu.edu Praveen Raina
pba...@post.its.mcw.edu Pradeep Bansal
PAL...@msuvx2.memphis.edu Prashant Palvia
jjo...@asterix.rsmas.miami.edu jossy jacob
ja...@wampee.rsmas.miami.edu Daniel Jacob
ssub...@slate.Mines.EDU Sivakumar Subramanian
pa...@catfish.lcs.mit.edu Patrick J LoPresti
kis...@MIT.EDU Krishna K Bhagavatula
sa...@mit.edu Anant Sahai
sun...@MIT.EDU Sankar Sunder
kond...@com.msu.edu Prashant Kondapaneni
kana...@egr.msu.edu Srinivas Kanamata Reddy
pade...@mtu.edu Prasanna A Deshpande
JOS...@vmsa.csd.mu.edu A G Joseph
gsh...@eos.ncsu.edu Gaurav Sharma
swsa...@eos.ncsu.edu Sumedh Sathaye
dba...@newton.ce.nd.edu Deepak Badoni
dkul...@tagore.helios.nd.edu Dinesh Kulkarni
Umesh....@nd.edu Professor Umesh Garg
giri...@meceng.coe.neu.edu Giridharan Bharathan
atul...@lynx.dac.neu.edu Atul Nagras
bha...@lynx.dac.neu.edu Biswanath Halder
sta...@lynx.dac.neu.edu Sravan K Tailam
du...@sagar-3.physics.neu.edu Durga Prasad Choudhury
z95...@corn.cso.niu.edu atluri venkata rajee
sks...@hertz.njit.edu Saikumar K Sharma
sxk...@hertz.njit.edu Sumeet Kumar
raj...@oak.njit.edu Rajeev Kumar Yadav
sun...@stat.njit.edu Sunil Kumar Dhar
srid...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu S Sridharan
tan...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Sanjeev Tandon
pra...@merle.acns.nwu.edu Pravir Malik
kri...@ramanujan.chem.nyu.edu Mushti V Ramakrishna
ades...@stern.nyu.edu Ashish Deshpande
raru...@stern.nyu.edu Ravi N Arunkundram
ebho...@Oakland.edu Ethiraj Bhoopathi
bo...@cs.odu.edu Venkatavasu Bokka
giy...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Iyyuni Govindarajan Balaji
rba...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Rajat Batra
AGA...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu Mukul Agarwal
vidy...@math.ohio-state.edu Vidhyanath K Rao
cve...@frodo.okcu.edu Venkatraghavan
ram...@lec.okcu.edu Ramesh Muniswamy
v...@ECE.ORST.EDU Vijai K Tripathi
rangar...@osu.edu Sandeep Rangarajan
GC96...@PACEVM.DAC.PACE.EDU sanjay achharya
pali...@ee.pdx.edu Karthikeyan Palanisamy
JSH...@Hermes.GC.PeachNet.EDU J B Sharma
sde...@GAES.GRIFFIN.PEACHNET.EDU Satish Y Deodhar
gh...@cs.pitt.edu Sunondo Ghosh
vj...@cs.pitt.edu Vishal Jain
niv...@pitt.edu Nithya Vaidyanathan
pras...@pitt.edu Prashanth Cannanbilla
an...@EE.Princeton.EDU Anand Raghunathan
srin...@EE.Princeton.EDU Santhanam Srinivasan
V...@ecl.psu.edu V Sundar
aa...@INDY.IE.PSU.EDU Arun Seshadri
p...@rayleigh.meche.psu.edu Vikram Parvataneni
DX...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Dinesh Agrawal
MXV...@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Manohar Vittal
ax...@psu.edu Akhlesh Lakhtakia
cs...@elmail.cc.purdue.edu Sriram T
cs...@elmail.cc.purdue.edu Manas R
m...@cs.purdue.edu Melliyal Annamalai
sha...@cs.purdue.edu Bharath S
jana...@ecn.purdue.edu Raghu Janardhan
mall...@ecn.purdue.edu S Mallapragada
muk...@ecn.purdue.edu Rajagopala G Mukunda
nara...@ecn.purdue.edu Balaji Narasimhan
wa...@ecn.purdue.edu Rajesh Wajge
tha...@foodsci.purdue.edu BELI THAKUR
me...@mgmt.purdue.edu Shailendra Raj Mehta
vi...@cs.rice.edu Vivek Sadananda Pai
r...@ece.rice.edu Ramakrishnan Rajamony
MRR...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Mysore Raghuveer
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kk...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu KAUSHIK CHAUDHURI
kar...@rpi.edu Chockkalingam Karuppaiah
vij...@andromeda.rutgers.edu Sankaran Vijayalakshmi
ka...@aquarius.rutgers.edu Rohit Kaila
gag...@caip.rutgers.edu Nikhil Gagvani
rsu...@caip.rutgers.edu Sudhir Ramakrishna
sor...@liman.Rutgers.EDU Sorabh Gupta
mya...@physics.rutgers.edu Mahesh Yadav
pus...@trump.rutgers.edu Pushkar Ghosh Choudhuri
ar...@sun.che.sc.edu P Arora
ba...@sun.che.sc.edu B P Haran
mur...@sun.che.sc.edu Murali
ja...@charlie.ece.scarolina.edu Mukul Jain
ANAN...@LANMAIL.SHU.EDU Narayanan Anantha
ka...@zeus.engr.siu.edu Chandrakanth H Gowda
su...@CS.Stanford.EDU Sunay Tripathi
sur...@DB.Stanford.EDU Surajit Chaudhuri
kap...@leland.Stanford.EDU Raghav Kapoor
rsh...@leland.Stanford.EDU R M Sheth
ve...@leland.Stanford.EDU Virendra Mehta
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pra...@pangea.Stanford.EDU Pradeep Kaul
ga...@voyager0.Stanford.EDU Arnab Kumar Chanda
acha...@attila.stevens-tech.edu Ashwin Chandra
cde...@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu Chirayu Desai
rpot...@ppi.stevens-tech.edu Ramesh Potluri
SMA...@BRAIN.BIO.SUNYSB.Edu Sundeep Malik
KSRI...@ccmail.sunysb.edu Kamal Keska Sridhar
mur...@sbee.eng.sunysb.edu Murali Subbarao
ud...@sbee.eng.sunysb.edu Udar Mittal
sra...@cat.syr.edu Rajesh S
gcka...@MailBox.Syr.Edu Gautam Chandra Kasturi
md...@MailBox.Syr.Edu Murli Mohan Rao
sun...@EESUN2.tamu.edu Sunitha Kadirvel
n-va...@tamu.edu Nitin Vaidya
sh...@astro.ocis.temple.edu Shoba Thamma
AP0...@tntech.edu Anand Pandurangan
PKG...@tntech.edu Prasena K Gudaloor
SVO...@tntech.edu Suresh Oleti
TB7...@tntech.edu Tarun Bhatt
go...@ecf.toronto.edu gopal g
kudi...@cs4sun.cs.ttu.edu Srinivasan Kudinoor
mguj...@cs4sun.cs.ttu.edu Manoj Gujarathi
su...@cs4sun.cs.ttu.edu Subramanya Srikanapuram
pa...@math.ttu.edu Parthiban Durai
ON...@ttacs1.ttu.edu Phani Tej Adidam
spa...@comp.uark.edu Sunil
aran...@ece.uc.edu Akash Randhar
ba...@ece.uc.edu BALAKRISHNAN KANNIKESWARAN
din...@ece.uc.edu Dinesh Bhatia
knel...@ece.uc.edu Kathiresan Nellayappan
m...@ece.uc.edu Malolan Chetlur
r...@ece.uc.edu Raghu Burra
smoh...@ece.uc.edu Sidhartha Mohanty
bha...@ucunix.san.uc.EDU Jyoti Bhatnagar
v...@uceng.uc.EDU Vijay Subramanian
sb...@ece.ucdavis.edu Sandip Bose
rkk...@ucdavis.edu Ravi Kaul
sud...@cs.ucf.edu Sudhir Kumar
maj...@gsbpop.uchicago.edu Abhay Joshi
rk...@midway.uchicago.edu Rajesh Kher
su...@CS.UCLA.EDU Sudip Singh
BH...@A1.JSEI.UCLA.EDU Suraj Bhat
nar...@seas.ucla.edu Naresh
nit...@ucla.edu Nitesh Bondale
Raj.Bh...@UC.Edu Raj Bhatnagar
Raj....@UC.Edu Raj Mehta
cha...@eci1.ucsb.edu Ramacharan Sundararaman
JAYS...@pine.circa.ufl.edu JAYSHANKAR
s...@cis.ufl.edu Sreenath Bodagala
t...@cis.ufl.edu Sudheer Tumuluru
ma...@eel.ufl.edu Mahalingam Nagarajan
t...@eel.ufl.edu thandu balasubramaniam
si...@grove.ufl.edu Sivakumar Ananthasubramanian
vi...@grove.ufl.edu Vijayakumar Anbumani
am...@om.cs.uga.edu Amit Sheth
kas...@om.cs.uga.edu Vipul Kashyap
apa...@pollux.cs.uga.edu Aparna A Khombhadia
deva...@pollux.cs.uga.edu Devanand Palaniswami
rxi1...@Bayou.UH.EDU rakhi israni
mdo...@guanine.BCHS.UH.EDU Manish Doshi
bkr...@cs.uh.edu Balasubramanian Krishnamurthy
U28...@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU Rajesh Verma
u40...@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU Tonse Raju
U40...@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU Prashant Malaviya
sis...@surya.eecs.uic.edu Aravinda Prasad Sistla
pthi...@eecs.uic.edu Prakash Thimmapuram
pven...@eecs.uic.edu Prathap Kumar Venkatesan
sch...@eecs.uic.edu Sudha Challa
nsi...@uic.edu Niraj Sinha
gov...@silver.cs.uidaho.edu Govind Deshpande
crkr...@tessa.iaf.uiowa.edu chada ramakrishna
rpra...@cern.ce.uiuc.edu Praveen Reddy
nand...@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu Ajay Nandanwar
dak...@chutney.csl.uiuc.edu Dakshi Agrawal
mil...@cs.uiuc.edu Milind Bhandarkar
b-ka...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Braj B Kachru
yka...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Yamuna Kachru
re...@cs.uiuc.edu Uday Reddy
ghil...@archimedes.me.uiuc.edu Vinay Ghildyal
ak...@ncsa.uiuc.edu Akhil Vidwans
hre...@ncsa.uiuc.edu Hari K Reddy
gaj...@uiuc.edu Rohit Reddy
dchat...@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU Deb Chatterjee
go...@tisl.ukans.edu Padmanabha D Rajagopalan
kpv...@tisl.ukans.edu Vijayanand Paulrajan
sri...@cslab.uky.edu Sridhar Subramaniam
muk...@dcs.uky.edu Mukund Acharya
ya...@ewl.uky.edu Babu Rao Yama
s...@autumn.cs.umass.edu Subhabrata Sen
ji...@epoch.cs.umass.edu Jitendra D Padhye
d...@gaia.cs.umass.edu Jayanta Dey
kas...@cs.umass.edu Sneha Kumar Kasera
sh...@cs.umass.edu Jayavel Shanmugasundaram
sin...@cs.umass.edu Sharad Singhai
psad...@kira.ecs.umass.edu Pattabiraman S
aven...@markov.ecs.umass.edu ARUNSHANKAR VENKATARAMAN
kart...@som.umass.edu Karthikeyan Sankaran
KRAGHU...@umassd.edu Kannan Raghunandan
bha...@umbc.edu V Bhadti
ash...@eng.umd.edu Ashish Nedungadi
tan...@eng.umd.edu Tanmay Panchwagh
bha...@UMDNJ.EDU pramit bhasin
chan...@UMDNJ.EDU Arun Chandrakantan
sha...@UMDNJ.EDU Naina Shah
at...@eecs.umich.edu Atri Indiresan
at...@eecs.umich.edu Atul Tiwary
kum...@eecs.umich.edu Mahesh K Kumashikar
may...@eecs.umich.edu Mayukh Bhattacharya
raj...@alumni.engin.umich.edu Rajeev Parlikar
balj...@vr4.engin.umich.edu Baljit Singh Vijan
bh...@engin.umich.edu Sanjay Purushottam Bhat
ga...@engin.umich.edu avinash pandey
ki...@engin.umich.edu kishore kamath
majo...@engin.umich.edu Sanjeev Majoo
mdi...@engin.umich.edu Dixit Mehul
mur...@engin.umich.edu Murali Datla
nee...@engin.umich.edu Neetu Gupta
pkp...@engin.umich.edu Pinakin Kanubhai Patel
ra...@engin.umich.edu Satyaraghu Seelamsetty
ra...@engin.umich.edu Ravichandra Seelamsetty
roh...@engin.umich.edu rohini s indiresan
sath...@engin.umich.edu Shankarram A Athreya
srik...@engin.umich.edu srikanth ranganathan
ssac...@engin.umich.edu saurav sachdev
ven...@engin.umich.edu Ramkumar Venkataraman
shant...@msb.flint.umich.edu r shantaram
sri...@Chem.LSA.umich.edu Sridhar Govindarajan
AKAR...@medmail.med.umich.edu Anil Karihaloo
afa...@umich.edu Andrew Fabbro
dja...@umich.edu Ravi Kumar Meruva
nch...@umich.edu Nikhilesh Chawla
r...@umich.edu radhakrishnan pillai
rsi...@umich.edu Reema Singla
su...@umich.edu Sudarshan Kumar Gautam
mda...@cs.uml.edu Mandar Pimpale
pa...@cs.uml.edu Pratik Amin
BH...@woods.uml.edu Chaitanya V Bhat
Hari...@BANYAN.UMMED.EDU Hari Koul
s...@ddt.biochem.umn.edu Sampath Ramachandran
ku...@cs.umn.edu Vipin Kumar
AK...@csom.umn.edu AKAUL
ra...@cs.umn.edu Soumyendu Raha
me...@ee.umn.edu Meera Ramani
ras...@ee.umn.edu Mukul Rastogi
Anil.K...@tc.umn.edu Anil K Kaul
Rashmi...@tc.umn.edu Rashmi Kaul
chan...@umr.edu Chandrasekharam Puligandla
kris...@umr.edu Ravi Ramachandran
kum...@umr.edu Kathinokkula Kumar
mp...@umr.edu Mayank Pant
m...@umr.edu Manish T Valoor
rag...@umr.edu Raghavender Pillutla
sa...@umr.edu Sandeep Laddha
va...@umr.edu Varma Penmatsa
san...@aryabhat.cs.umsl.edu Sanjiv K Bhatia
sdha...@uncc.edu Suresh Dharmapuri
pre...@engrss2.unl.edu Prabhakar Vangala
vta...@unlinfo.unl.edu Vikas Tandon
rvai...@ATOKA.RE.uokhsc.edu Ramdas Vaidyanathan
v5...@REV.RE.uokhsc.edu Benjamin Willoughby
v5...@REV.RE.uokhsc.edu Angela Loman
v5...@REV.RE.uokhsc.edu Lerry Sitler
v6...@REV.RE.uokhsc.edu Eric Linn
SRI...@MESNET.MESONET.UOKNOR.EDU Sridhar Kulasekharan
RAM...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu Ramdas Iyer
ven...@grip.cis.upenn.edu Venkat N Krovi
mah...@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu Mahesh Kailasam
sri...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Srinivas S Sripada
gsi...@chaph.usc.edu Gaurav
sona...@chaph.usc.edu Sonal K Puri
ra...@chekov.usc.edu Raju
r...@halcyon.usc.edu Anil Rao
br...@pollux.usc.edu Bapa Rao
sank...@skat.usc.edu Sanjay Kalra
ra...@luna.cas.usf.edu Anshu Raina
gir...@sunflash.eng.usf.edu Chiruvolu Girish
da...@cse.uta.edu Vasudev Dalal
ahj...@omega.uta.edu Amol Hari Joshi
prp...@omega.uta.edu PRASHANT PRABHUDESAI
ak...@utdallas.edu Alok Kaul
aru...@utdallas.edu Arun K Visvanath
pan...@utdallas.edu Pankaj H Pobaru
suj...@utdallas.edu Sujith Bolar
sha...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Jaishankar kasthurirangan
sho...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Shoban Srikrishna Jagathesan
ais...@cs.utexas.edu Anita Israni
dam...@cs.utexas.edu Om P Damani
sri...@cs.utexas.edu Sriram Rao
vi...@pine.ece.utexas.edu Viral Kadakia
shr...@ece.utexas.edu Yashesh Ajitbhai Shroff
vi...@smokey.me.utexas.edu vijay kumar bokka
lok...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu Lokesh K Wuluvarana
NARA...@centum.utulsa.edu Ramesh Narasimhan
mah...@vuse.vanderbilt.edu Sankaran Mahadevan
swa...@ece.vill.edu Swarna Chigullapalli
ad...@watt.seas.virginia.edu Anupama Dharap
mat...@csgrad.cs.vt.edu Anup Mathur
pus...@ctr.vt.edu Pushkin Kachroo
ka...@vtpwr1.psl.ee.vt.edu Sunil Kabra
nti...@rs3.esm.vt.edu Nachiketa Tiwari
amad...@simopt.ise.vt.edu Ananth madabushi
rtot...@simopt.ise.vt.edu Rajiv Totlani
raj...@vt.edu Rajesh Bhojwani
vpar...@vt.edu Viru Parlikar
nila...@louise.stat.washington.edu Nilanjan Chatterjee
mai...@thelma.stat.washington.edu Ranjan Maitra
an...@u.washington.edu Anupam Dattamajumdar
ma...@u.washington.edu Mani Prakash
sa...@u.washington.edu Saket Kumar
sa...@u.washington.edu Sayan Pathak
s...@BUSOP.CIT.WAYNE.EDU SRIVATHSA
gu...@cs.wmich.edu Ajay Gupta
rhe...@valhalla.cs.wright.edu Rajamohana Hegde
pey...@taz.arch.wsu.edu Peyush Agarwal
r...@cec.wustl.edu S Rabindar
psre...@cellbio.wustl.edu Sreesha Srinivasa
gok...@cs.wustl.edu Aniruddha Gokhale
r...@cs.wustl.edu S Ramachandran
ha...@dworkin.wustl.edu Adiseshu Hari
p...@dworkin.wustl.edu Prithvi Prabhu
ra...@mulberry.wustl.edu Thiruvamoor Ramkumar
mi...@titan.wustl.edu Mihir Sathe
bsh...@mail.xula.edu Bhu Dev Sharma
mi...@aecom.yu.edu Joydeep Mitra
abul...@ra.abo.fi Abhay Bulsari VT
ba...@dh.cit.alcatel.fr Sunil Bali
ga...@dh.cit.alcatel.fr Neeraj Garg
prab...@dh.cit.alcatel.fr Arcot Prabakar
pra...@dh.cit.alcatel.fr R PRASAD
rah...@dh.cit.alcatel.fr Rahul Nayar
m_srin...@qmgate.anl.gov M Srinivasan
ABo...@cmis.corr.ca.gov Boghra Arun
ARath...@cmis.corr.ca.gov RATHNAGIRI ARUNAGIRI
MPa...@cmis.corr.ca.gov Milind Pawar
PVa...@cmis.corr.ca.gov Pawan Varma
VRath...@cmis.corr.ca.gov Vijayalakshmi Rathnagiri
Ban...@insurance.ca.gov Amit Bansal
sw...@boco.co.gov Shane Castle
TI...@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV Jawahar Ticku
m1s...@FRB.GOV Sridhar Mahankali
hil...@xdiv.lanl.gov Hillol Kargupta
mat...@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov Shana Mattoo
wan...@spso.gsfc.nasa.gov Lalit Wanchoo
avi...@shangrila.jpl.nasa.gov Avijit Gangopadhyay
ga...@nlm.nih.gov Anil Ganju
vda...@mars.epm.ornl.gov Venu Dasigi
kishor...@sfwmd.gov Kishore K Gopu
an...@agni.ernet.in Anoop Singh
dhe...@agni.ernet.in N Pradheepa
pun...@agni.ernet.in PUNEET CHITKARA
ra...@agni.ernet.in Raghavendra D Rao
sam...@agni.ernet.in Sameer Rege
vi...@agni.ernet.in Vivek Deshpande
bd...@cdacb.ernet.in Shankar T
kri...@cdacb.ernet.in VENKATAKRISHNAN RAJAGOPALAN
mo...@cdacb.ernet.in N Mohan Ram
nav...@cdacb.ernet.in M D NAVEEN
nee...@cdacb.ernet.in Navaneetha M
ran...@cdacb.ernet.in Ranen Chatterjee
ra...@cdacb.ernet.in M Gunneswararao
ravi...@cdacb.ernet.in P S RAVINDRA NAVADA
si...@cdacb.ernet.in Sandeep R
abh...@gargi.gssl.ernet.in Abhijit P Deshpande
hem...@aditya.pune.gssl.ernet.in Hemant Gadgil
jite...@pune.gssl.ernet.in Jitendra C Bauskar
mah...@pune.gssl.ernet.in Mahesh Vaidya
pa...@pune.gssl.ernet.in Parag R Parkhi
sand...@pune.gssl.ernet.in Sandeep Sheth
sri...@pune.gssl.ernet.in B R Sriram
nee...@gssl.ernet.in Neelesh D Pandit
shri...@gssl.ernet.in Shrirang P Joshi
FPMLAN!AM...@iimahd.ernet.in AMAR SAXENA
FPMLAN!MU...@iimahd.ernet.in Muthu PERU
FPMLAN!PDJ...@iimahd.ernet.in P D Jose
FPMLAN!UN...@iimahd.ernet.in K Unnikrishnan Nair
ra...@alpha2.iimb.ernet.in Ram Prasad S
b...@aero.iisc.ernet.in J Buvaneswari
gi...@aero.iisc.ernet.in N C Geethakamal
he...@aero.iisc.ernet.in E Hemalatha
jaw...@aero.iisc.ernet.in P Jawahar
jka...@aero.iisc.ernet.in J K Anand
o...@aero.iisc.ernet.in O N Ramesh
su...@aero.iisc.ernet.in S Sundaresan
ma...@biochem.iisc.ernet.in A MANI
jo...@civil.iisc.ernet.in Johnson V T
din...@csa.iisc.ernet.in Dinesh
di...@isu.iisc.ernet.in Dinesh D
kes...@isu.iisc.ernet.in keshav
sh...@isu.iisc.ernet.in shivanand
nma...@mbu.iisc.ernet.in N Manoj
rsha...@mbu.iisc.ernet.in R Ravishankar
san...@mbu.iisc.ernet.in SANDEEP KUMAR BANSAL
k...@mecheng.iisc.ernet.in Guruprasad K R
ra...@mecheng.iisc.ernet.in Ramanathan M
sr...@mecheng.iisc.ernet.in SHRINIVAS LANKALPALLI
ani...@physics.iisc.ernet.in Anil kumar P
vit...@physics.iisc.ernet.in K Vittal
che...@btc.iitb.ernet.in Chetan J Gadgil
s...@cse.iitb.ernet.in Sachin V Chitnis
may...@netearth.iitd.ernet.in Mayank Tiwari
mdj...@netearth.iitd.ernet.in M D Joshi
al...@gssl.ernnet.in.ernet.in Alok B Lal
c930...@konark.ncst.ernet.in Neeraj Mehta
iba...@soochak.ncst.ernet.in Neeraj B Bhai
an...@pspl.ernet.in Anil Nair
sa...@pspl.ernet.in Sanjay Rao
cr...@rri.ernet.in C R Gopalakrishnan
na...@sasi.ernet.in Naren Nande
r...@sasi.ernet.in R V Anand
at...@sclbang.ernet.in Athmanathan
he...@sclbang.ernet.in hemalatha
pra...@sclbang.ernet.in prasad
r...@sclbang.ernet.in R V Raj
vi...@sclbang.ernet.in Vidya s
ya...@sclbang.ernet.in K V Yashoranjan
agu...@vedika.ernet.in Amit Gupta
an...@vxindia.ernet.in Anand A Kekre
anj...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Anjana Kaul
aru...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Arun Rao
arv...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Arvind R
bha...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Bharat Ahluwalia
d...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in D D Ravi Shankar
gir...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Girish M V
ha...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Hari Sekhar
jo...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Jose Philip
mu...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Muniraju
nag...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Nagesh Somasundaram T
na...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in M Ammaiah Naidu
raje...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Rajendra H V
ra...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Ramanath P
she...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Sheila Govindaraj
sriv...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Srividya Sankaran
ta...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in Tarun Gulati
um...@aditimx.vsnl.net.in S UMHA MAHESH
a...@giascl01.vsnl.net.in amit gupta
am...@giascl01.vsnl.net.in Amit Gupta
dh...@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in Krishen Dhar
loc...@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in Gaurav Lochan
MDSA...@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in S Kalyanaraman
ra...@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in Rama
sree...@vsnl.net.in Sreedhar V Sambukumar
bi...@IPENT.delhi.nic.in Dhruva N Kadaba
na...@medlar0.delhi.nic.in Naina Pandita
MAD...@tifrvax.tifr.res.in M H Kombrabail
SV...@tifrvax.tifr.res.in S V K KUMAR
m.cuc...@net1-01.bcs.it Marco Cucinato
vi...@del01mp.sgs-thomson.it vinod chaku
sa...@del05ld.sgs-thomson.it Sabyasachi Saha
jo...@ENV.hines.hokudai.ac.jp Jothimani P
ra...@cc.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp K S Rajan
ach...@PICA.ARMY.MIL Amod K Choudhary
duv...@nosc.mil Tirumalesa Duvvuri
tch...@airmail.net Tejaswini Priyanaka Chari
mch...@bellsouth.net M K Chaayanath
coo...@citynet.net Lubaina Mittal
sac...@newton.crisp.net Sachin Gogri
rtir...@dtc.net Ragu Tirukonda
mso...@mistik.express.net Mustafa Soysal
scha...@fyi.net Satyajit Chatterjee
to...@gate.net Tony Mitra
vpa...@harbinger.net Venkat Palani
San...@i-link.net Sanjeev Lahoti
sem...@inforamp.net Abhilash Bhachech
v...@inx.net Vis Hariharan
jo...@handel.jlc.net John Leslie
lofs...@lava.net Karen Lofstrom
pmal...@nando.net Prasad Mallipeddi
ni...@netexpress.net Ninad Joshi
ro...@pe.net Robin Triee
kl...@pi.net Partha Pratim Som
Tarun.B...@penta.ps.net Tarun Bhaskaran
raj...@rahul.net S Rajeev
srin...@rahul.net Srinivas B
as...@Fe3.rust.net Ashok Sastry
mu...@ddeorg.soft.net S Muthu Kumar
ara...@equinblr.soft.net Aravind M Kulkarni
har...@equinblr.soft.net Sreeharsha M Gadagkar
mait...@equinblr.soft.net MAITHILI J KULKARNI
pras...@equinblr.soft.net Prashant Naik
pra...@equinblr.soft.net Pravin Joshi
sus...@equinblr.soft.net Sushma P
vid...@equinblr.soft.net M VIDYA
govi...@mindware.soft.net Govind S Kanshi
Guys...@pharma.soft.net Kiran Kumar S
s...@pharma.soft.net SHYAM I GODA
cha...@prithvi.psi.soft.net M N Chandra Kumar
mah...@prithvi.psi.soft.net MAHESH H S
gu...@sas.soft.net Vellore Gururaja Rao
ja...@sas.soft.net Jayanta Bhadra
kis...@sas.soft.net krishna kishore G
ph...@sassun6.stpb.soft.net Phani Kumar B
san...@sassun6.stpb.soft.net Sanjay sankolli
r...@tss.stpb.soft.net Rajesh Razdan
ase...@mtci.stpn.soft.net ASHWANI SEHGAL
mon...@mtci.stpn.soft.net Monica Singhal
rar...@mtci.stpn.soft.net Rajeev Arora
rsi...@mtci.stpn.soft.net Rupinder Singh
san...@mtci.stpn.soft.net Sanjay Jain
Sha...@mtci.stpn.soft.net Sharad Singhani
so...@mtci.stpn.soft.net Sandeep Singh Sodhi
va...@mtci.stpn.soft.net VIVEK ARYA
ka...@galaxy.npi.stpn.soft.net R P Kaila
mpa...@opentech.stpn.soft.net Manoj Pareek
aj...@teil.soft.net AJAY K GARG
bha...@teil.soft.net BHARAT BHUSHAN KAUL
nan...@teil.soft.net Nandita Deo
va...@teil.soft.net Mulchandani Vasudev Lalchand
kis...@tekelec.soft.net Kishore Rao C V
rk...@genius.tisl.soft.net RAJESH KOUL
sr...@genius.tisl.soft.net Tadepalli RaviShankar
anj...@wipinfo.soft.net Anjani Sudarsan Kumar L
ba...@wipinfo.soft.net K Badrinath
cha...@wipinfo.soft.net Chaitanya M S
chr...@wipinfo.soft.net Raghu Ch
ckp%wipr...@wipinfo.soft.net C K Prasad
gau...@wipinfo.soft.net Gaurav Rishi
gra...@wipinfo.soft.net G Raghavendra
ha...@wipinfo.soft.net Hari Prasad K
har...@wipinfo.soft.net POONTHALA HARIS
j...@wipinfo.soft.net Jalaja B G
ke...@wipinfo.soft.net Keerthi A K
kee...@wipinfo.soft.net K N Keerthishankar
lok...@wipinfo.soft.net Lokesh N
mah...@wipinfo.soft.net G Uma Maheswara Rao
man...@wipinfo.soft.net Manash M Goswami
ma...@wipinfo.soft.net Manjunatha B P
man...@wipinfo.soft.net Manjula M N
mil...@wipinfo.soft.net Milton Fernandes
nav...@wipinfo.soft.net Naveen B S
nit...@wipinfo.soft.net Nithyananda kamath M
raja...@wipinfo.soft.net Rajarshi Chatterjee
rit...@wipinfo.soft.net Ritesh R Jayswal
s...@wipinfo.soft.net Srinivasa S A
sd...@wipinfo.soft.net Sandeep Dhar
shw...@wipinfo.soft.net Shwetal S Parikh
sin...@wipinfo.soft.net Sindhu K R
sin...@wipinfo.soft.net S RadhaKrishna
sjo...@wipinfo.soft.net Sanjay Ganajan Joshi
s...@wipinfo.soft.net Sowdambiga
sr...@wipinfo.soft.net Sreevalli D
suk...@wipinfo.soft.net Suketu Sheth
vi...@wipinfo.soft.net Vibha Sequeira
voo...@wipinfo.soft.net V Suresh Babu
go...@tss.wipro.soft.net Gopi
har...@tss.wipro.soft.net Harish Kumar Shetty
cha...@wipro.wipsys.soft.net S Chandra Sekharan
ran...@wipro.wipsys.soft.net Ranjan Dutta
vi...@wipro.wipsys.soft.net Viswanath J S
an...@wipsys.soft.net Anil Pillai
EB...@wipsys.soft.net Eby K R
hem...@wipsys.soft.net Hemanth Kumar Rajasekhar
h...@wipsys.soft.net H P CHANDRASHEKHAR
kri...@wipsys.soft.net P V KRISHNA RAO
man...@wipsys.soft.net Mannar D
mit...@wipsys.soft.net Bharat Bhushan Mittal
myt...@wipsys.soft.net Mythili H V
p...@wipsys.soft.net P SATYAPAL REDDY
pra...@wipsys.soft.net G N Pradeep
pr...@wipsys.soft.net Y N Sathya Pramod
roh...@wipsys.soft.net ROHINI K
sand...@wipsys.soft.net SANDHYA K
sh...@wipsys.soft.net Sharath Babu
she...@wipsys.soft.net Sathish Shenoy M
su...@wipsys.soft.net S Sudarsanan
suh...@wipsys.soft.net Suhas Joshi
su...@wipsys.soft.net B S Sushrutha
lak...@relay.lvpeye.stph.net LAKSHMI K RAMACHANDRAN
t...@relay.lvpeye.stph.net Thomas John
ra...@saturn.superlink.net R B Shenai
ra...@txdirect.net Raghu Hanumanthaiah
sso...@txdirect.net Sharad Sogani
bikk...@vnet.net Uday Bikkasani
csa...@urc.tue.nl Michiel Wijers
mi...@cactus.org Milan Patel
sku...@ciesin.org Suresh B Kumar
sha...@cpcug.org Sanjeev Sharma
ne...@cyberspace.org neetika singh
sax...@cyberspace.org Amar Saxena
mkul...@eagle.org Milind Kulkarni
plok...@eagle.org Praveen Lokhande
Mouna_...@hchp.org Mouna Prasad
Rajesh_...@hchp.org Rajesh Govindan
Sabu_V...@hchp.org Sabu T Varghese
San...@hchp.org SANJAY SHELVANKAR
Satheesh...@hchp.org SATHEESH KEREMUTT
Shrish_...@hchp.org Shrish Kulkarni
Thrush...@hchp.org Thrushar N Shah
NIB...@biosta.mskcc.org Mohan Nibhanupudi
vak...@sun470.sme.org Ravikanth Vaka
ak...@tiaa-cref.org Anil Kale
pjey...@tiaa-cref.org prabhakar jeyapathy
srud...@tiaa-cref.org Shekhar Rudrapatna
asa...@worldbank.org Atish Sanyal
MRA...@worldbank.org Mahadevan Ramesh
PKU...@worldbank.org Piyush Kumar
SMAS...@worldbank.org Santosh Maskeri
Shalabh=Kayastha%mbm97b%A...@AIM04.aim.edu.ph Shalabh Kayastha
Shankar=S.=Raman%mbm97c%A...@AIM04.aim.edu.ph Shankar S Raman
khu...@paknet1.ptc.pk khushal khan
mop5...@itek.chalmers.se Pushkar Dandekar
eus...@exu.ericsson.se Anup Pandya
eus...@exu.ericsson.se Bharat Dhurka
eus...@exu.ericsson.se Satish Rao
exu...@exu.ericsson.se Praful Mainker
exu...@exu.ericsson.se SRIDHAR R KOLAR
exu...@exu.ericsson.se Vishal Verma
ma...@bio1.bioanalys.gu.se Madhu Basetti
ram...@tp.ac.sg Ramesh Hariharan
ragh...@cyberway.com.sg M Raghu Ram
b.c.ji...@ipc.com.sg B C Jithendra
jaidee...@ipc.com.sg Jaideep Shah
k.pattab...@ipc.com.sg K Pattabhi Raman
r.dhan...@ipc.com.sg R Dhananjeyun
ramesh...@ipc.com.sg Ramesh babu c
vijay...@ipc.com.sg Vijay Kumar
anup...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Anup Raja
ash...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Ashish Jain
ASHU...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Ashutosh Awasthi
pra...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Prabhu Swamy T S
sun...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Sunaina Bahadur
su...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Sunil Subramaniam
uj...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Muthukumar J
ur...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Vishwanath
ut...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Tarun Malik
uu...@ssdi.sony.com.sg U Bhattacharyya
vis...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Vishal Gupta
yud...@ssdi.sony.com.sg Yudhvir Singh
ku...@tmi.com.sg Kumar Subramanian
vis...@tmi.com.sg VISHNU KUMAR
ma...@pacific.net.sg A SINGARAVELAN
rao...@pacific.net.sg Makineni Sreenivasa Rao
sr...@pacific.net.sg Seetharaman Natarajan
sant...@iss.nus.sg Santhosh Kumar
eng4...@leonis.nus.sg Manish
engp...@leonis.nus.sg Priya
ca...@uni-mb.si Ales Casar
a...@geo.ed.ac.uk Anup Pradhan
m.nas...@ic.ac.uk M NASRULLAH
r.srin...@ic.ac.uk RAJ SRINIVASAN
cy...@cyber.rdg.ac.uk Chandra Kambhampati
R.K...@sheffield.ac.uk Rajeev Kumar
km...@ecs.soton.ac.uk Kaustav Majumdar
VITHA...@olddipesh.agw.bt.co.uk Raghvendra
math...@churchill.co.uk Shailendra Mathur
rc...@netmgrs.co.uk C B J Rao
dhar...@moco.monterey.ca.us Dharmesh Jain
akb...@pbfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Alok Bose
Invalid ballots
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ro...@corus.com Farookh Mohammed
! Ineligible address
ro...@mozart.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
! Ineligible address
ro...@uncdel.ernet.in debasis
! Ineligible address
uu...@brain.net.pk info
! Ineligible address
ec...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca Society of Hindu Students
! Invalid account
gund...@solix.com Solix Systems Inc
! Invalid account
cor...@paknet1.ptc.pk corporate data consulting
! Invalid account
grap...@paknet1.ptc.pk college of computer graphics
! Invalid account
i...@paknet1.ptc.pk instrument management system
! Invalid account
po...@paknet1.ptc.pk pakistan optimist sailing association
! Invalid account
P214...@vmsuser.acsu.unsw.EDU.AU
! No name given
archna...@utoronto.ca
! No name given
Dud...@aol.com
! No name given
I...@aol.com
! No name given
MMali...@aol.com
! No name given
Pr...@aol.com
! No name given
Va...@aol.com
! No name given
m...@cbsignal.cb.att.com
! No name given
srin...@ulysses.att.com
! No name given
Krishnamurth...@att.com
! No name given
nav...@centerline.com
! No name given
gov...@pt.Cyanamid.COM
! No name given
shas...@qcav02.ENET.dec.com
! No name given
Sanjiv...@DGAP.ceo.dg.com
! No name given
WIP...@gecs03.gectms.ge.com
! No name given
P022951%PBGVM1....@GE1VM.SCHDY.GE.COM
! No name given
as...@ref.grolier.com
! No name given
tsi...@hayes.com
! No name given
jqur...@hearst.com
! No name given
n...@apollo.hp.com
! No name given
Rajan_Parthasarathy/Labs/HP/US...@hplnote1.hpl.hp.com
! No name given
se...@valley.austin.ibm.com
! No name given
bha...@VNET.IBM.COM
! No name given
sa...@VNET.IBM.COM
! No name given
usqr...@ibmmail.com
! No name given
KRSIVA_at...@inf.com
! No name given
RAN...@inf.com
! No name given
SHRIPADKB_...@inf.com
! No name given
Ashish...@fcbbs.ss.kpmg.com
! No name given
Naveed_Bu...@email.mot.com
! No name given
vbha...@casey.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
! No name given
BPX...@tevm2.nsc.com
! No name given
brajesh....@octel.com
! No name given
naga.k...@octel.com
! No name given
ASWA...@us.oracle.com
! No name given
ADP0%AsiEss%C...@go50.comp.pge.com
! No name given
Sridhar...@notes.pw.com
! No name given
Vijay...@notes.pw.com
! No name given
idr...@gatwick.geoquest.slb.com
! No name given
mehd...@gatwick.geoquest.slb.com
! No name given
kris...@sun1.spss.com
! No name given
kulbhush...@st.com
! No name given
Anand.Pa...@Sun.COM
! No name given
KARANDIKA...@Tandem.COM
! No name given
hs...@usr.com
! No name given
chow...@wcdf.viewlogic.com
! No name given
ada...@webplaza.com
! No name given
vas...@webplaza.com
! No name given
GTH...@BPA.Arizona.EDU
! No name given
V067...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
! No name given
mjo...@ces.clemson.edu
! No name given
vma...@ces.clemson.edu
! No name given
SPI...@CLEMSON.EDU
! No name given
ro...@crux4.cit.cornell.edu
! No name given
zkha...@ACC.FAU.EDU
! No name given
mo...@iastate.edu
! No name given
bhmu...@MIT.EDU
! No name given
KA...@ocelot.Rutgers.EDU
! No name given
ACHA...@vaxa.stevens-tech.edu
! No name given
msid...@thunder.ocis.temple.edu
! No name given
og...@ttacs1.ttu.edu
! No name given
SVAIS...@BOSCO.MEIS.UAB.EDU
! No name given
daf...@radonc4.ucsf.edu
! No name given
VNA...@Gems.VCU.EDU
! No name given
see...@axpb.cdotb.ernet.in
! No name given
sune...@axpb.cdotb.ernet.in
! No name given
hal...@petronas.com.my
! No name given
ri...@genius.tisl.soft.net
! No name given
zh...@ncte.org
! No name given
ZEE...@doc.pwr.sdnpk.undp.org
! No name given
Ankur=Narain%mbm97c%A...@AIM04.aim.edu.ph
! No name given
Kaurik=Raj%mbm97c%A...@AIM04.aim.edu.ph
! No name given
Kingshuk=Mukherjee%mbm97b%A...@AIM04.aim.edu.ph
! No name given
jaw...@biruni.erum.com.pk
! No name given
user...@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg
! No name given
stb6...@ait.ac.th
! No name given
M.A....@nortel.co.uk
! No name given
raj...@thunderbird.auc.laurentian.ca Akram Rajput
! No vote statement in message
NAS...@LIB1.Lan.McGill.CA Syed Naseer
! No vote statement in message
10366...@CompuServe.COM Masood A Khan
! No vote statement in message
LIBPKPT%SYSB.G...@GE1VM.schdy.ge.com
! No vote statement in message
ramakrishn...@siemensrolm.com
! No vote statement in message
ash...@uts.com Ashish Jadhav
! No vote statement in message
van...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Anand G Vandrasi
! No vote statement in message
vb...@charlie.ece.scarolina.edu Vanukura Balasubramanyam
! No vote statement in message
ca...@menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu Mentor Cana
! No vote statement in message
kha...@birch.ee.vt.edu Muhammad Khan
! No vote statement in message
ma...@enserg.fr
! No vote statement in message
rad...@pune.gssl.ernet.in Radhakrishnan
! No vote statement in message
ash...@cyberspace.org Ashwin Mathias
! No vote statement in message
aqi...@paknet1.ptc.pk aqib razzaque
! No vote statement in message
kas...@paknet1.ptc.pk Kashif A Sheikh
! No vote statement in message
oba...@paknet1.ptc.pk Obaidullah
! No vote statement in message
ant...@manifold.algebra.com Anton Prokofiev
! Site invalidated
bl...@manifold.algebra.com Bobby Lin
! Site invalidated
br...@manifold.algebra.com Brad Brown
! Site invalidated
do...@manifold.algebra.com Doug Hamilton
! Site invalidated
dy...@manifold.algebra.com Rock Dyer
! Site invalidated
gco...@manifold.algebra.com Greg Cooper
! Site invalidated
gun...@manifold.algebra.com Ronald Trecker
! Site invalidated
k...@manifold.algebra.com Ken J Hunter
! Site invalidated
le...@manifold.algebra.com Elena Zaiceva
! Site invalidated
mcc...@manifold.algebra.com Andrew McCaig
! Site invalidated
mel....@manifold.algebra.com Mel Lynch
! Site invalidated
mi...@manifold.algebra.com Mike Burke
! Site invalidated
m...@manifold.algebra.com Milton Parrott
! Site invalidated
mil...@manifold.algebra.com Jerry Milman
! Site invalidated
mjoh...@manifold.algebra.com Mark Johnson
! Site invalidated
mkl...@manifold.algebra.com Martin Klein
! Site invalidated
msid...@manifold.algebra.com Marina Sidorova
! Site invalidated
mu...@manifold.algebra.com Martin Unze
! Site invalidated
nas...@manifold.algebra.com Nastya
! Site invalidated
nat...@manifold.algebra.com Natasha K
! Site invalidated
ow...@manifold.algebra.com Larry Owen
! Site invalidated
pi...@manifold.algebra.com Sergey Filippov
! Site invalidated
rcr...@manifold.algebra.com Russell Cross
! Site invalidated
rhend...@manifold.algebra.com Ron Henderson
! Site invalidated
sex...@manifold.algebra.com Anthony Del Vecchio
! Site invalidated
s...@manifold.algebra.com David Shoemaker
! Site invalidated
t...@manifold.algebra.com Mikhail Tarutin
! Site invalidated
tar...@manifold.algebra.com Taras Leonoff
! Site invalidated
vo...@manifold.algebra.com Mikhail Volkov
! Site invalidated
wh...@manifold.algebra.com James S Whaley
! Site invalidated
wil...@manifold.algebra.com Tim Willis
! Site invalidated
Rajwinder Singh
Voting thug Rajiv Varma is at it again: he has voted from multiple accounts
under different names:
>RVa...@aol.com Raj Varma
>rva...@ccaix.jsums.edu Rajesh Varma
>rva...@stallion.jsums.edu Rajiv Varma
>v...@stallion.jsums.edu Venkatraman O Iswaran
>r...@stallion.jsums.edu Raja Mahendra Parmar
The v...@stallion.jsums.edu and r...@stallion.jsums.edu accounts
do not belong to a person, but to some organization [VOI is Voice of India
if I remember correctly from the propaganda campaigns that account has been
used for-- V.O. Iswaran seesm to be a fictitious name].
Not that it matters in a vote fraud of this scale, but netters should
watch out when Rajiv Varma is on the prowl.
rs
Finger information tells us :
[stallion.jsums.edu]
Rajiv Varma (rvarma) is not presently logged in.
Last seen at stallion.jsums.edu on Fri Jun 21 15:29:40 1996
[stallion.jsums.edu]
RMP (rmp) is not presently logged in.
Last seen at stallion.jsums.edu on Fri Jun 21 14:10:50 1996
[stallion.jsums.edu]
VOI (voi) is not presently logged in.
Last seen at stallion.jsums.edu on Sun Jun 9 23:21:43 1996
Anup Pradhan
: RESULT
: moderated group soc.culture.kashmir fails 453:1993
: soc.culture.kashmir results - 2446 valid votes
: Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
: ---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
: 453 1993 | No No | No | soc.culture.kashmir
: 134 invalid votes
Now that this moronic proposal is out of the way, I would advocate
the creation of an 'unmoderated' soc.culture.kashmir newsgroup
particularily for those who feel (for a variety of reasons) that
SCIJK is not a suitable venue to conduct discussion. The key
word here is unmoderated.
Anup
: Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
Vijay Sadananda Pai
In article <rajwi.31cb0a8b-e@otto>, Rajwinder Singh <rajwi@otto> wrote:
>Voting thug Rajiv Varma is at it again: he has voted from multiple accounts
>under different names:
>>RVa...@aol.com Raj Varma
>>rva...@ccaix.jsums.edu Rajesh Varma
Gee, he's losing his creativity then; in the SRV vote I think he also
voted with the last name "Verma". He also pulled out good old Venkatraman
that time too..... Interestingly, stallion.jsums.edu was the 2nd greatest
source of NO votes on SRV; only a major national online service
produced more NOs...
Just out of curiosity, how many addresses did Moin Ansari use in this
one (assuming he voted)?
-- Vijay
ObJyotish: Can anyone predict how many more aliases he will use in the
next vote?...
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <4qfmfm$d...@larry.rice.edu>,
vija...@mridangam.rice.edu (Vijay Sadananda Pai) writes:
|>
|> ObJyotish: Can anyone predict how many more aliases he will use in the
|> next vote?...
Well, do these count:
rxi1...@Bayou.UH.EDU rakhi israni
jsch...@fiu.edu Jennifer J Schulke
Yeah, they're not quite Rajiv, but when I asked the first one on that
list how she got voting instructions for SRV after she told me that
she never read newsgroups, she hemmed and hawed for a good 5 minutes
before declaring that it was pretty easy, you know, from "the usual place".
Jennifer pops up to proclaim that she's a "traditional Hindu" whenever
there's any doubt. No prize goes to the first person to determine that
both are actively involved with their chapters of the Hindu Students
Council, which, just by coincidence, has a mailing list... hmmm...
Hey, does anyone know if Vivekananda said anything about honesty or
integrity after his "Arise, awake,..." speech? Just wondering.
-Vivek
Kabeer
In <rajwi.31cb0a8b-e@otto> rajwi@otto (Rajwinder Singh) writes:
>
>
>Voting thug Rajiv Varma is at it again: he has voted from multiple
accounts
>under different names:
>
Gentleman,
Even if you take out this person, how about the remaining 1900+ voters
who DO NOT want SCK?
Kabeer
Asim Mughal
There was mass email campaign going on with prefilled ballots to
solicit 'NO' votes. The vote taker was notified of it, I don't see
it reflected in the final results.
A.Mughal
[Standard Disclaimer] Flames:/dev/null
Russ Allbery
Asim Mughal <mug...@alumnae.caltech.edu> writes:
> There was mass email campaign going on with prefilled ballots to solicit
> 'NO' votes. The vote taker was notified of it, I don't see it reflected
> in the final results.
Because there is no reliable way of determining which votes were due to an
e-mail campaign. Were the vote invalidated, the same thing would happen
again. Short of proof of forged votes, there isn't a tremendous lot we
can do.
I find the result extremely unsurprising, although I think it would have
been closer if changes had been made to the moderation policy and the
other problems raised during the discussion period had been addressed.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@cs.stanford.edu) <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
Mahesh Yadav
mug...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Asim Mughal) writes:
>There was mass email campaign going on with prefilled ballots to
>solicit 'NO' votes. The vote taker was notified of it, I don't see
>it reflected in the final results.
I did not recieve any. Nevertheless we should consider that such
campaign could also have happened to solicit 'YES' vote. SCK was bound to
fail because hardly any Indians were satisfied by moderaters.
Nevertheless, we should thank the non-south asians, who have taken
lot of time to mediate and worked for us to reach some compromise. In fact,
Joe Bernstein involved the most in the debate than Indians or Pakistanis (or
Kashmiris). I am particularly glad and thankful that he voted 'NO'.
Now let us get on with our lives, at least for six months :)
Regards Mahesh Yadav
> A.Mughal
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR
In article <qum688k...@cyclone.Stanford.EDU>,
Russ Allbery <r...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>I find the result extremely unsurprising, although I think it would have
>been closer if changes had been made to the moderation policy and the
>other problems raised during the discussion period had been addressed.
Oh come on Russ, give us all a break. You really tell me that if the
problem you mention were addressed, 1500 people would have voted for
SCK! The votes were not for UseNet policy decisions, but apolitical
wave to supress the Kashmiri point of view on the Internet like it is
being supressed in India itself.
--
-----
Ahmer A. Karimuddin
Russ Allbery
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR <e0fk...@erin.utoronto.ca> writes:
> Russ Allbery <r...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> I find the result extremely unsurprising, although I think it would
>> have been closer if changes had been made to the moderation policy and
>> the other problems raised during the discussion period had been
>> addressed.
> Oh come on Russ, give us all a break. You really tell me that if the
> problem you mention were addressed, 1500 people would have voted for
> SCK! The votes were not for UseNet policy decisions, but apolitical
> wave to supress the Kashmiri point of view on the Internet like it is
> being supressed in India itself.
No, I think a lot of news.groups regulars would not have voted against the
group, and a number of people, myself included, would have voted for it.
It still probably would have failed because of the political situation,
but it would have been closer.
GOPAL Ganapathiraju Sree Ramana
In article <4qi0oa$l...@tuzo.erin>,
KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR <e0fk...@erin.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>In article <qum688k...@cyclone.Stanford.EDU>,
>Russ Allbery <r...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>>I find the result extremely unsurprising, although I think it would have
>>been closer if changes had been made to the moderation policy and the
>>other problems raised during the discussion period had been addressed.
>
>Oh come on Russ, give us all a break. You really tell me that if the
>problem you mention were addressed, 1500 people would have voted for
>SCK! The votes were not for UseNet policy decisions, but apolitical
>wave to supress the Kashmiri point of view on the Internet like it is
>being supressed in India itself.
>
>
>-----
>Ahmer A. Karimuddin
of a dozen or so people who participated actively on the sck
RFD debate, i can say that Uday Reddy, Joe Bernstein, Vivek
S Pai and my self would have voted yes on the porposal *if*
moderation-concerns were addressed. [and most others of the
dozen i am referring to were anyway supporters of sck].
Actually, the proponent, in the begining *did* realize the
need to have a broad based moderation panel, but some how
did not pursue the same despite repeated requests.
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <4qi0oa$l...@tuzo.erin>,
e0fk...@erin.utoronto.ca (KARIMUDDIN AHMER AZHAR) writes:
|> Oh come on Russ, give us all a break. You really tell me that if the
|> problem you mention were addressed, 1500 people would have voted for
|> SCK! The votes were not for UseNet policy decisions, but apolitical
|> wave to supress the Kashmiri point of view on the Internet like it is
|> being supressed in India itself.
For what it's worth, if the proposal had been balanced, I would
have campaigned for it, and had it been defeated, I would have
asked that the result be set aside. As it currently stands, I
mildly campaigned against the group, and I don't see any grounds
for overturning the result. This was the RMW-P case again, but
on a 1/20 scale.
As it stands, I'm still mildly disgusted that I found myself voting
on the same side of an issue which got the support of the "pop up
Hindu brigade" and their mailing lists, but I think that's
inevitable in some cases.
-Vivek
Jay Maynard
On 22 Jun 1996 04:42:11 -0700, Russ Allbery <r...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Short of proof of forged votes, there isn't a tremendous lot we
>can do.
Of course you and Dave are going to completely ignore this suggestion, but I
believe fairness demands that the group be created anyway.
Then again, if we were interested in fairness and making this a place for
people to have discussions of subjects that interest them, then we'd have
soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya, soc.culture.macedonia, and
rec.music.white-power - all groups that had demonstrated interest and were
voted down because of massive political campaigning that had essentially
nothing to do with whether or not there was sufficient interest in the group
or the group's name (as separate from the political issue).
We can now add soc.culture.kashmir to this shameful list.
>I find the result extremely unsurprising, although I think it would have
>been closer if changes had been made to the moderation policy and the
>other problems raised during the discussion period had been addressed.
The only thing I find surprising about the result is that the NO votes
weren't an order o magnitude higher. I guess the Indian vote forgers and
nationalistic campaigners didn't care as much about this one, since they'd
already proven their point, and rubbing salt in the wounds wasn't as high a
priority.
Just once, I wish we'd do the Right Thing instead of making up rules as we
go along to quiet those organized by rabble-rousing demagogues.
--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
http://k5zc.hsc.uth.tmc.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"Just because I'm a superhero doesn't mean
I have to smell poo gas." -- Freakazoid
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <slrn44sr4go....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
|> The only thing I find surprising about the result is that the NO votes
|> weren't an order o magnitude higher. I guess the Indian vote forgers and
|> nationalistic campaigners didn't care as much about this one, since they'd
|> already proven their point, and rubbing salt in the wounds wasn't as high a
|> priority.
The no votes were about one-tenth what we saw in scijk. In
comparison, the yes votes were only about one-fourth. So,
it seems to me that if you're going to be randomly throwing
around insults, you've hit the wrong target.
|> Just once, I wish we'd do the Right Thing instead of making up rules as we
|> go along to quiet those organized by rabble-rousing demagogues.
The "Right Thing" shouldn't include a group with two moderators
who seem to have no problem with breaching netiquette and who have
no desire to include a broad-based moderation panel in what will
undoubtedly be a hotly discussed issue.
In other words, this group isn't exactly a great candidate for
righteous indignation.
-Vivek
J Durbin
jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) wrote:
>Then again, if we were interested in fairness and making this a place for
>people to have discussions of subjects that interest them, then we'd have
>soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya, soc.culture.macedonia, and
>rec.music.white-power - all groups that had demonstrated interest and were
>voted down because of massive political campaigning that had essentially
>nothing to do with whether or not there was sufficient interest in the group
>or the group's name (as separate from the political issue).
Can you clarify a bit? You _seem_ to imply that newsgroup votes should
somehow be designed to eliminate votes from those with a, for want of
better words, political agenda or bias against the newsgroup while
counting votes based on namespace or other technical issues and the
votes of those in favor of the newsgroup(s). Why have a vote at all?
Or, why have NO votes? Just advise the proponents as to the correct
name for the newsgroup(s), have them provide some evidence of support
for its creation, if you hold a "vote", gather up some Yes votes, then
newgroup it?
It seems to me that what you're describing already exists in alt.*.
Apologies in advanced if this has been discussed to death. If so, can
you point me to some resources?
>We can now add soc.culture.kashmir to this shameful list.
Don't you think you're overreating a bit? This whole process seems to
be a learning process. Mistakes will be made, lessons learned and
changes made.
jd
--
jason durbin
slot...@poisson.com
Stop Reading Here <---
Jay Maynard
On 23 Jun 1996 20:34:42 GMT, Vivek Sadananda Pai <vi...@cs.rice.edu> wrote:
>The "Right Thing" shouldn't include a group with two moderators
>who seem to have no problem with breaching netiquette and who have
>no desire to include a broad-based moderation panel in what will
>undoubtedly be a hotly discussed issue.
Why not? It would serve as a counterpoint to a group heavily biased against
them that was created by massive campaigning and fraud.
Ths Indian viewpoint would be ore than adequately erpresented in scijk. Let
the Kashmiris have their own space. ...Oh, right, there's no such athing as
a non-Indian Kashmiri. I forgot. How silly of me.
>In other words, this group isn't exactly a great candidate for
>righteous indignation.
Sure it is. You just refuse to see why.
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <slrn44stbod....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
|> On 23 Jun 1996 20:34:42 GMT, Vivek Sadananda Pai <vi...@cs.rice.edu> wrote:
|> >The "Right Thing" shouldn't include a group with two moderators
|> >who seem to have no problem with breaching netiquette and who have
|> >no desire to include a broad-based moderation panel in what will
|> >undoubtedly be a hotly discussed issue.
|>
|> Why not? It would serve as a counterpoint to a group heavily biased against
|> them that was created by massive campaigning and fraud.
Two wrongs don't make a right. There - I can be as patronizing as you.
plonk.
-Vivek
Dr. Dimitri Vulis
In article <slrn44sr4go....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
Jay Maynard writes:
>On 22 Jun 1996 04:42:11 -0700, Russ Allbery <r...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>Short of proof of forged votes, there isn't a tremendous lot we
>>can do.
>
>Of course you and Dave are going to completely ignore this suggestion, but I
>believe fairness demands that the group be created anyway.
>
>people to have discussions of subjects that interest them, then we'd have
>soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya, soc.culture.macedonia, and
>rec.music.white-power - all groups that had demonstrated interest and were
>voted down because of massive political campaigning that had essentially
>nothing to do with whether or not there was sufficient interest in the group
>or the group's name (as separate from the political issue).
>
>
>>been closer if changes had been made to the moderation policy and the
>>other problems raised during the discussion period had been addressed.
>
>weren't an order o magnitude higher. I guess the Indian vote forgers and
>nationalistic campaigners didn't care as much about this one, since they'd
>already proven their point, and rubbing salt in the wounds wasn't as high a
>priority.
>
>go along to quiet those organized by rabble-rousing demagogues.
But you don't have the balls to posts newgroups for these newsgroups?
Honorable ISPs who respect their users carry all these newsgroups irrespective
of David C Lawrence's (spit) "ex cafedra" pronouncemenets. Please ask AOL
and all other ISPs to create soc.culture.kashmir. Responsible ISPs follow
the wishes of their paying customers, not of David C Lawrence (spit).
Uday Reddy
Jay Maynard wrote:
>
> Basically, I feel that the newsgroup creation process should be heavily
> biased in favor of creation, as that's the best way I know to encourage free
> expression of all viewpoints on Usenet - a goal which I think all will agree
> is a Good Idea.
>
Great! Stand by that sentiment and read the RFD discussion of SCK
again. You don't have to be a Sherlock Holmes to figure out that the
SCK proposal got voted down precisely because it did not "encourage free
expression of all viewpoints on Usenet."
[Please note: The SCK *proposal* got voted down. Whether the SCK
concept got voted down, we don't know. The jury is still out on that.]
> That's just my point: We haven't learned a damned thing. If we had, we
> wouldn't have had this whole controversy.
What controversy?
Uday Reddy
Ajaz Siraj
I like to join my friend, Dr. Altaf Wani, in thanking everybody involved
in the SCKashmir saga. I would like to go even a step beyond and congratulate
all of you who voted against the creation of this newsgroup.
Despite the examples of the NO vote solicitation mailed to us, we are not
going to lobby Jan Isley and David Lawrence to override the vote result and
create SCK. We recognize that our low numbers are not going to be effective
anyway. However, I really like to thank both of them for putting up with
all of us South Asians.
Early on during the discussion phase on SCKashmir some person had suggested
to me that the only way to create this newsgroup is to play on Hindu v
Muslim theme. According to him, we could target hundreds of mailing lists
which reach thousands of muslims on the net and lobby them for YES vote.
As you all know, we totally rejected such an idea. The defeat of current
proposal means that someone is likely to revive this idea in future with
the strategy given above. It would be rather interesting to see David reject
a huge YES vote in light of the SCIJK decision. Anyway, we want to make it
clear that our proponent, Dr. Majid and I will have no part in such an
effort. As far as we are concerned, the SCKashmir is dead.
The only surprising part about the results was our under-estimation of the
support we had. I had expected in low two hundreds, but thanks to lot of you
out there we managed to double that number. The number of NO votes were
pretty much on the dot; Srisha Rao had predicted around two thousand votes
during the discussion couple of months ago. Great job Shrisha! How did
you manage to be so accurate? AbJoytish, maybe? ;-)
The saddest and the most unfortunate part about this whole saga was the
portrayal of me, Dr. Majid and Dr. Wani as "anti-India" by some people
campaigning against us. I suppose you all had your reasons to do so and
there is nothing we could have done or said to make you change your minds
short of abandoning the whole proposal. Yes, some people did say that they
will vote for us if we included an Indian moderator in our panel, but
we were not convinced that the number of YES votes picked up would be more
than the number of supporters we would lose.
Anyway, it is history now. The only thing we can do now is to try to bring
our communities together. This may go against the wishes of extremists', who
are the true winners of the SCK vote, on the both sides of the Kashmir issue,
but rest of us need to work together to alleviate all the hatred, the
bigotry and other social ills that is plaguing our nations. As a gesture
of our good intention, I invite those of you seriously interested in Kashmir
to become member of our Kashmir Net. You will be able to find out for your
self that we do not have any hidden agenda as has been alleged. We can
exchange our thoughts on Kashmir without being distracted by the extremists.
If you want to join, send email to: solu...@earthnet.net.
Regards and best wishes for all.
~ajaz (ex-SCKashmir-proposed-moderator)
<si...@intellistor.com>
Jay Maynard
(I'll pass up the obvious "so you admit that scijk wronged non-Indian
Kashmiris?", confident that someone else will pick up that line of
reasoning.)
Creating sck would be no more wrong than creating scijk as it was done.
Right now, there's a group of people who, whether you choose to admit it or
not, are disenfranchised on the net: those who feel that participating in
scijk would be an admission that India's claims are valid. sck would have
given them a place for their own viewpoint...but the Indian masses quashed
it, just as they rammed through scijk, and for similar political reasons.
Usenet should not be a place where real-world politics are used as a basis
forquashing expression. Right now, however, that's exactly what it is.
I call on Dave Lawrence to repudiate the Indian efforts to suppress
non-Indian viewpoints, and create sck despite the recent tainted vote.
I have little hope he will, though.
Jay Maynard
On Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:07:28 GMT, J Durbin <slot...@poisson.com> wrote:
>Can you clarify a bit? You _seem_ to imply that newsgroup votes should
>somehow be designed to eliminate votes from those with a, for want of
>better words, political agenda or bias against the newsgroup while
>counting votes based on namespace or other technical issues and the
>votes of those in favor of the newsgroup(s).
Yes, this is a fair statement of the idea.
Basically, I feel that the newsgroup creation process should be heavily
biased in favor of creation, as that's the best way I know to encourage free
expression of all viewpoints on Usenet - a goal which I think all will agree
is a Good Idea.
As Peter da Silva notes, the group creation process measures two
incompatible things: interest in the group's subject, and opposition to the
group's name and other technical details. Unfortunately, a single yes/no
vote is used to measure both, and that's subject to abuse by those who think
that the subject should not be discussed on Usenet - a beliefe I think is
invalid and incompatible with what Usenet is.
> Why have a vote at all?
>Or, why have NO votes? Just advise the proponents as to the correct
>name for the newsgroup(s), have them provide some evidence of support
>for its creation, if you hold a "vote", gather up some Yes votes, then
>newgroup it?
Peter's idea is closer to what I think is the ideal: two separate votes, one
where people can express an interest in the topic - and where only YES votes
are collected - and one on selecting the appropriate name for the group. I
see several problems with it as proposed, and others have, too, but I feel
it's closer to what Usenet is really looking for in a group creation vote.
The purpose of NO votes is as some means to force a proponent into changing
a bad name, or other technical detail. It seldom works in this manner,
however, but simply doing away with them is not the answer.
>It seems to me that what you're describing already exists in alt.*.
No, for one reason: alt.* is completely anarchic and uncontrolled, and so a
sysadmin has to wade through many joke groups to get to the few real
nuggets. As such, an alt.* group is guaranteed to get lower propagation than
the exact same group in the Big 8.
>Don't you think you're overreating a bit? This whole process seems to
>be a learning process. Mistakes will be made, lessons learned and
>changes made.
That's just my point: We haven't learned a damned thing. If we had, we
wouldn't have had this whole controversy.
Jay Maynard
[Uday, when you both post and reply, please note that fact, so I can write
my reply once instead of having to remember what I said...]
On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 23:35:21 -0500, Uday Reddy <re...@cs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>Great! Stand by that sentiment and read the RFD discussion of SCK
>again. You don't have to be a Sherlock Holmes to figure out that the
>SCK proposal got voted down precisely because it did not "encourage free
>expression of all viewpoints on Usenet."
I believe that sck *as proposed* provided the perfect counterbalance to
scijk, and the two groups taken together do exactly that.
>[Please note: The SCK *proposal* got voted down. Whether the SCK
>concept got voted down, we don't know. The jury is still out on that.]
...and will be, for at least 8 more months. I place the balame for that
squarely at the feet of those who made the votes for scijk and sck exercises
in the power of Indian nationalistic fervor rather than interest surveys
about topics of discussion.
>> That's just my point: We haven't learned a damned thing. If we had, we
>> wouldn't have had this whole controversy.
>What controversy?
Cmon, Uday...don't tell me you're so thoroughly blinded by Indian
nationalism that you don't see that there's substantial dissent about the
results? (I didn't think so, as your comments have generally seemed
level-headed...but I've been surprised before...)
Jay Maynard
[Newsgroups deBoursiVulisized...I only post to newsgrous that exist, thank
you very much.]
On Mon, 24 Jun 96 20:00:13 EDT, Dr. Dimitri Vulis <d...@bwalk.dm.com> wrote:
>But you don't have the balls to posts newgroups for these newsgroups?
I refuse to descend into the depths of kookdom.
>Honorable ISPs who respect their users carry all these newsgroups irrespective
>of David C Lawrence's (spit) "ex cafedra" pronouncemenets. Please ask AOL
>and all other ISPs to create soc.culture.kashmir. Responsible ISPs follow
>the wishes of their paying customers, not of David C Lawrence (spit).
(That's 'ex cathedra', you gleek plick.)
The definition of "responsible" that you, and your buddies Grubor and
Boursy, follow is a product of your own twisted desires to gain any kind of
recognition and legitimacy. Real ISPs honor Dave's group messages pretty
much automatically, if not completely so, and ignore or scrutinize very
carefully those from anyone else, at least in the Big 8.
Thesimple fact of the matter is that the groups you and your buddies
champion do not exist for any meaningful value of the word "exist". They're
simply places for you and your buddies to crosspost into.
Brijnandan Singh Dehiya
In article <slrn44stbod....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
Jay Maynard <jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu> wrote:
>On 23 Jun 1996 20:34:42 GMT, Vivek Sadananda Pai <vi...@cs.rice.edu> wrote:
>
>Ths Indian viewpoint would be ore than adequately erpresented in scijk. Let
>the Kashmiris have their own space. ...Oh, right, there's no such athing as
>a non-Indian Kashmiri. I forgot. How silly of me.
How would you know if the people creating/moderating the sck were kashmiris,
Jay? Many of those who argued for the group here were Pakistanis. THAT was a
big problem. The moderators were obviously biased towards the Pakistani
position and it would only have been fair if the other side had been
represented as well. It's like the moderated presidential debates. Would you
like a debate where only Bob Dole was in front of the camera all the time
preaching how bad and evil Clinton is?
I would still have liked to see the group created, just to see what kind of
posts were being churned out.
If they had named the group soc.culture.terrorists.of.kashmir.valley, I would
not have bothered with it at all.
Brij
----
Joe Bernstein
In article <slrn44suh93....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu wrote:
>I call on Dave Lawrence to repudiate the Indian efforts to suppress
>non-Indian viewpoints, and create sck despite the recent tainted vote.
I will oppose, starting now, any such call.
I believed and continue to believe that the properly named group on
Kashmir would be soc.culture.kashmir. I have become persuaded that such a
group would have to be moderated, and that the proper name for an
unmoderated group would be talk.politics.kashmir.
The best face I can put on the creation of
soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir is that it is a poorly named version of
the latter. Therefore, soc.culture.kashmir is still needed, and I
devoutly hope that six months from now a proposal succeeds in creating it.
That said, *this proposal* was seriously flawed. My NO vote was due to
the continued insistence of one proposed moderator that it was appropriate
to post private e-mail on Usenet, for example. Despite my considerable
disgust with other aspects of this proposal, all it would have taken to
avoid my NO vote was a statement on his part retracting that assertion.
That statement never appeared.
This was fairly typical of the whole debate. The proponent was all but
invisible throughout. Other supporters, in his absence, were far from
forthcoming in discussion. I did a detailed critique of the RFD. One of
the details I noted (the absence of an END CHARTER line) was corrected;
others were ignored; most spectacularly, where I had asked for more
information to be included about moderator replacement, instead the
sentence present in the RFD on that subject was *removed* from the CFV!
None of these details were responded to in any post except with a vague
"thank you".
Obviously, most of the discussion focused on the moderation panel. One
argument offered by supporters was that the proposed moderators should
simply be trusted. In view of the posting of private e-mail, this became
especially difficult to buy. Another argument was that no volunteers from
"opposing" camps were forthcoming to act as moderators. This, I admit,
was true; but in view of the supporters' steady addition of conditions to
be required of any potential moderator, also understandable. Nor were
suggestions of neutral moderators (made early on by Chris Stone, and much
later by Shrisha Rao) considered.
In the last few months we've seen basically three hugely inflated vote
totals. In the soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir vote, an experienced
proponent pushed through a misnamed group with considerable courtesy to
the volunteers involved but none to the debate. In the
rec.music.white-power vote, a troll succeeded in guying Usenet with a
misnamed group that people voted against for all the wrong reasons. And
in this vote, an *inexperienced* proponent displayed every one of the
faults such proponents are prone to, exaggerated and hardened by the
affront of the scij-k debate -- and again got swamped in NO votes for all
the wrong reasons.
It's unfortunate that as a result a good newsgroup idea was postponed for
six months. I sympathise considerably with your comments in this thread
about how NO votes should be replaced, somehow, with two-stage voting on
interest and technicalities. But in the meantime, I continue to believe
that it's no disaster for a group to be defeated, even for the wrong
reasons, if it's a bad proposal. While I share your desire to see as many
newsgroups as possible created -- a desire recently frustrated for several
newsgroups I intervened trying to salvage, such as rec.arts.sf.dune and
talk.religion.messiah -- I'm not shedding many tears over proponents who
earned their defeats.
Joe Bernstein
--
Joe Bernstein, free-lance writer and bookstore worker
speaking for myself and nobody else j...@sfbooks.com
Robert Ames
In article <slrn44suiqj....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) wrote:
>Basically, I feel that the newsgroup creation process should be heavily
>biased in favor of creation, as that's the best way I know to encourage free
>expression of all viewpoints on Usenet - a goal which I think all will agree
>is a Good Idea.
Having just fought on the "no" side of a newsgroup reorganization
proposal, I have to object to your statement. A vote in favor of a
reorganization (with "renaming" the parent group to .misc) is
actually a vote to remove the parent group. A goal which NOT all
agree is a good idea. When the destruction of groups is incorporated
into the newsgroup creation process, your reasoning above no longer
holds.
Shrisha Rao
In article <4qn9lf$a...@opus.intellistor.com>,
Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com> wrote:
> The only surprising part about the results was our under-estimation
> of the support we had. I had expected in low two hundreds, but
> thanks to lot of you out there we managed to double that number. The
> number of NO votes were pretty much on the dot; Srisha Rao had
> predicted around two thousand votes during the discussion couple of
> months ago. Great job Shrisha! How did you manage to be so accurate?
> AbJoytish, maybe? ;-)
That's ObJyotish, not AbJyotish, but no, I did not at any time make a
prediction of how many votes there were going to be, for or against.
ObJyotish is usually a request-for-information or a tautological
Jyotish statement that is appended to a message to make it fit for
posting to alt.jyotish; it is not a crystal ball.
I do trust that in the non-too-distant future the proposal for SCK
will be revived with one or more neutral moderators and a better
definition of moderation policy (especially with respect to moderator
etiquette and how new moderators are selected); at that time, one
hopes, the result will be favorable.
> As a gesture of our good intention, I invite those of you seriously
> interested in Kashmir to become member of our Kashmir Net. You will
> be able to find out for your self that we do not have any hidden
> agenda as has been alleged. We can exchange our thoughts on Kashmir
> without being distracted by the extremists.
>
> If you want to join, send email to: solu...@earthnet.net.
A commendable gesture; I would urge all those who participated in this
discussion and expressed concern about SCK becoming the UseNet version
of the KashNet mailing list, to join the list and help provide for a
more meaningful future for Kashmiri discussion on the Internet.
Have a nice day.
With warm regards,
Shrisha Rao
ObJyotish: How many votes would Jyoti Sharma have predicted for and
against SCK?
Eric Jaron Stieglitz
In article <slrn44sr4go....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
Jay Maynard <jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu> wrote:
>
>Then again, if we were interested in fairness and making this a place for
>people to have discussions of subjects that interest them, then we'd have
>soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya, soc.culture.macedonia, and
>rec.music.white-power - all groups that had demonstrated interest and were
>voted down because of massive political campaigning that had essentially
>nothing to do with whether or not there was sufficient interest in the group
>or the group's name (as separate from the political issue).
Uh, Jay? I'm not really sure what your concept of "demonstrated interest"
is, but rmw-p had virtually no demonstrated interest. Rich, what's the
URL to that article about the lack of any interest whatsoever about WP music?
If you want to change the system, you should also eliminate groups that
were created to make a political point rather than to discuss a topic.
--
Eric Jaron Stieglitz eph...@ctr.columbia.edu
Home: (212) 280-1152 Assistant Systems Manager at the
Work: (212) 854-6020 Center for Telecommunications Research
Fax : (212) 854-2497 http://www.ctr.columbia.edu/people/Eric.html
Vivek Sadananda Pai
In article <slrn44suh93....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>, jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
|> On 24 Jun 1996 23:05:39 GMT, Vivek Sadananda Pai <vi...@cs.rice.edu> wrote:
|> >In article <slrn44stbod....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu>,
|> >jmay...@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
|> >|> Why not? It would serve as a counterpoint to a group heavily biased against
|> >|> them that was created by massive campaigning and fraud.
|> >Two wrongs don't make a right. There - I can be as patronizing as you.
|>
|> (I'll pass up the obvious "so you admit that scijk wronged non-Indian
|> Kashmiris?", confident that someone else will pick up that line of
|> reasoning.)
And I'll pass on the obvious "are you still beating your wife?" confident
that someone else will either pick up on that line of reasoning or
change it to something more perverse.
|> Creating sck would be no more wrong than creating scijk as it was done.
Proof by assertion only. There are major differences you're
ignoring:
a) one is moderated, the other is unmoderated
b) one is moderated, the other is unmoderated
c) one is moderated, the other is unmoderated.
There - if you can go for proof by assertion, I can follow up with
proof by repeated restating the obvious. [note: Shrisha - is there
a term for this?]
|> Right now, there's a group of people who, whether you choose to admit it or
|> not, are disenfranchised on the net: those who feel that participating in
|> scijk would be an admission that India's claims are valid. sck would have
|> given them a place for their own viewpoint...but the Indian masses quashed
|> it, just as they rammed through scijk, and for similar political reasons.
See my figure on what the relative turnouts were this time, and please
also note that it wasn't just the Indians voting against it. A couple of
you white folks did as well, but I guess you're under the belief that
we Indians are incapable of voting on principle?
I mildly campaigned against the group based on its inherent problems,
and I know someone else campaigned fairly heavily. However, both of
us said that if the problems were resolved (and they were relatively
easy to resolve), that we both would have campaigned for the group.
|> Usenet should not be a place where real-world politics are used as a basis
|> forquashing expression. Right now, however, that's exactly what it is.
Usenet shouldn't be a place where cloudy thinking and proof by
repeated assertion passes for argument, and right now, that's
exactly what it is.
|> I call on Dave Lawrence to repudiate the Indian efforts to suppress
|> non-Indian viewpoints, and create sck despite the recent tainted vote.
Uh, that "tainted vote" also happened to have a fair number of news.groups
regulars voting on it, and I know that _I_ didn't pay them off. [note -
dear news.groups regulars: your payment checks from the BJP should be
arriving shortly. Thanks for the turnout, guys]
-Vivek
Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Uday Reddy wrote:
> Jay Maynard wrote:
> > Basically, I feel that the newsgroup creation process should be heavily
> > biased in favor of creation, as that's the best way I know to encourage free
> > expression of all viewpoints on Usenet
> Great! Stand by that sentiment and read the RFD discussion of SCK
> again. You don't have to be a Sherlock Holmes to figure out that the
> SCK proposal got voted down precisely because it did not "encourage free
> expression of all viewpoints on Usenet."
If you mean that some people thought that not all viewpoints would be
encouraged *within* the group to be created - that's not the same thing
as all viewpoints *on Usenet*. Clearly, the viewpoint that ideas
concerning Kashmir should be given a moderated group did get voted down.
Whether it's because of the moderation or not one can't say for sure
(seeing some tangents of the RFD debate I'm inclined to think that for
most opponents this was more of an excuse than a reason) - it would only
be possible to tell apart if there were paralel proposals for both
moderated and unmoderated groups.
Incidentally, I disagree with Jay on the need for bias toward group
creation in general; I am still waiting for him to reconcile this view to
his opposition to abonimations like sci.aquaria ;-(... If such bias would
prevail much more than it is present in the current process (which
arguably already is biased toward creation as a rule, for a mere
hundred-plus votes aren't as difficult to gather as it used to be) then
we'd have Usenet turned into alt.*!
- --
Zoli fek...@bc.edu, keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!
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GOPAL Ganapathiraju Sree Ramana
In article <Pine.SGI.3.91.960625...@chi3.bc.edu>,
Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq <fek...@bc.edu> wrote:
>
> If you mean that some people thought that not all viewpoints would be
>encouraged *within* the group to be created - that's not the same thing
>as all viewpoints *on Usenet*. Clearly, the viewpoint that ideas
>concerning Kashmir should be given a moderated group did get voted down.
>Whether it's because of the moderation or not one can't say for sure
>(seeing some tangents of the RFD debate I'm inclined to think that for
>most opponents this was more of an excuse than a reason) - it would only
>be possible to tell apart if there were paralel proposals for both
>moderated and unmoderated groups.
>
If i were you i prefer not to sit in judgement over others this way.
in the case of sck, the demand was for making the moderation panel
(1) broad based -- i was one of the people asking for this, OR
(2) neutral -- as suggested by Shrisha Rao. and my impression during
the debate was that many of the neutrals as well as supporters of
the sck proposal from among the news.groups regulars was that
this demand is a reasonable one. to say this is an *excuse* is
far-fetched.
gopal
Christopher B. Stone
For the record, I did not vote on the soc.culture.kashmir proposal.
I will vote YES on any moderated soc.culture.* group whose moderation
panel appears to be reasonably broadbased and fair-minded.
Likewise, I will vote NO on unmoderated soc.culture.* groups where I feel
moderation is needed; I will vote against poorly named groups; and I will
vote NO on moderated groups whose moderators do not appear up to the job.
The moderation panel of soc.culture.kashmir fell into the latter
category, unfortunately. All things being equal, I would have voted NO.
I abstained in this particular case because I do believe the outcome of
the soc.culture.indian.jammu-kashmir was unfair to Kashmiri Muslims.
Had the proponents minimally addressed some of the complaints we voiced
in news.groups, I would have been delighted to vote YES.
--
Chris Stone * cbs...@princeton.edu * http://www.princeton.edu/~cbstone
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -Martin Luther King
Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On 25 Jun 1996, Vivek Sadananda Pai wrote:
> |> Creating sck would be no more wrong than creating scijk as it was done.
>
> Proof by assertion only. There are major differences you're
> ignoring:
>
> a) one is moderated, the other is unmoderated
> b) one is moderated, the other is unmoderated
> c) one is moderated, the other is unmoderated.
So if there already is an unmoderated group that is, according to you,
not different from sck other than for the moderation - why not allow the
moderated counterpart as well?
- --
Zoli fek...@bc.edu, keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!
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Shrisha Rao
Ajaz Siraj <si...@intellistor.com> wrote:
>Actually, it is my mistake. I did mis-quote you. Here is what you had
>said:
>
>=====================================================================
>
>Re the issue of overturning votes, I would be supportive of Group
>Advice if they decide to act in opposition to SCK's losing by
>1800:23000. However, that's not going to happen. For one thing, most
>Indians will just say "huh?" if you ask them to vote against SCK;
[*chomp*]
>I quoted you as having predicted 2000:200 votes against us. Sorry!
No problems.
>Anyway, you are an order of magnitude off. Now does this still qualify
>for Indians just saying "huh" criteria?
>
>Just a thought.
But, to a certain extent, I'd say that you guys almost deliberately
shot yourself in the foot, what with your fellow proposed-moderator
making that "Amnesty International" posting right at the start of the
CFV period, and all, which wouldn't have sat well with the Indians,
and which was certainly very un-diplomatic, and caused some to suspect
that you were more interested in provoking a backlash vote and having
the proposal lose -- and playing the martyrs later, rather than having
it win and delivering a good newsgroup. And also that stuff about
Gopal asking whether the two Sirazes were related, and why this was
concealed, etc.; this was a rather weak objection (if it was one at
all, which in my opinion it wasn't), but your silence raised it to the
absurd heights of a Watergate conspiracy -- would have been better to
have laughed it off or put it down firmly, rather than leave it on as
a peg on which someone can hang an objection.
Regards,
Shrisha Rao
>~ajaz
Jim Riley
In article <slrn44suh93....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu> Jay Maynard
wrote:
>I call on Dave Lawrence to repudiate the Indian efforts to suppress
>non-Indian viewpoints, and create sck despite the recent tainted vote.
Why don't you create s.c.k (assuming that the proposed moderators
are willing to moderate it)? Or start the kashmir.* hierarchy.
--
Jim Riley
Jim Riley
In article <slrn44t3hat....@admin5.hsc.uth.tmc.edu> Jay Maynard
wrote:
>The problem with your proposal is that it's impossible to automatically
>tally. Free-form text in a balloting system that can generate over 30,000
>votes is a Really Bad Idea.
There would be no reason to automatically tally the free-form part of
the interest survey. It would only be necessary to collect it. The
fixed-form of the survey would be easily tallied by software.
In the case of proposals (i.e. those that draw significant support *and*
significant opposition) the proponent and opponents would have the
responsiblity for examining the free-form comments.
--
Jim Riley