30 Years Ago: rec.ham-radio reorganization

[Paul W. Schleck]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

The following articles from 30 years ago, currently early 1991, are
taken from the Internet Archive at:

https://archive.org/download/usenet-rec/rec.ham-radio.mbox.zip


>Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ucsd!pacbell.com!ames!eos!shelby!pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU
>From: pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU (paulf)
>Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio
>Subject: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: rec.ham-radio reorganization
>Message-ID: <1...@shasta.Stanford.EDU>
>Date: 4 Dec 90 17:26:04 GMT
>Organization: The Three Packeteers
>Lines: 41
>Xref: gmdzi news.groups:23265 rec.ham-radio:17431
>Posted: Tue Dec 4 18:26:04 1990

Jay Maynard and I propose the following reorganization of the rec.ham-radio
hierarchy:

PROPOSED ADDITIONS:

1. rec.radio.ham

"A General newsgroup for discussions about amateur radio."

2. rec.radio.ham.legal

"A newsgroup for the discussion of legal aspects of amateur radio."

3. rec.radio.ham.packet

"A newsgroup for discussions about amateur packet radio."

4. rec.radio.ham.swap

"A forsale group for the rec.radio.ham hierarchy."

PROPOSED DELETIONS:

1. rec.ham-radio

Now superseded by rec.radio.ham and rec.radio.ham.legal.

2. rec.ham-radio.packet

Superseded by rec.radio.ham.packet

3. rec.ham-radio.swap

Replaced by rec.radio.ham.swap


Commentary Period: Dec. 4 -14, 1990


- -=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX | Without KILL files,
- ->pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU | life itself would be impossible.


>Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!bionet!turbo.bio.net!lear
>From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
>Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.ham-radio.packet
>Subject: CALL FOR VOTES: reorganization of rec.ham-radio.*
>Message-ID: <Jan.6.23.53....@turbo.bio.net>
>Date: 7 Jan 91 07:51:50 GMT
>Sender: le...@turbo.bio.net
>Reply-To: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
>Followup-To: news.groups
>Lines: 129
>Approved: le...@turbo.bio.net
>Xref: gmdzi news.announce.newgroups:785 rec.ham-radio:18872 rec.ham-radio.swap:900 rec.ham-radio.packet:3355

This is a formal call for votes for the proposed reorganization of
rec.ham-radio.*. The discussion period started on December 4, 1990, and
has run for just over the required 30 days (extended from the original
ending time of 31 December 1990 due to the Christmas and New Year's
holidays). Please read this entire posting before sending in your
vote; the ballot to be used is at the end.

THE PROPOSAL:
=============
The following groups are to be renamed:
rec.ham-radio => rec.radio.amateur.misc
rec.ham-radio.packet => rec.radio.amateur.packet
rec.ham-radio.swap => rec.radio.swap
Groups will be renamed by creating the replacement group, asking site
admins to alias the old group to the new one, and rmgrouping the old
group after traffic in it has died down, hopefully about a month later.
This method has been shown to work in other hierarchies.

The following groups are to be created:
rec.radio.amateur.policy
This group is intended to contain any and all discussion about policy
issues pertaining to amateur radio, including, but not limited to,
rules, regulations, laws, and legal actions by and against amateur
radio operators. This group is to be unmoderated.

rec.radio.cb
This group is intended to contain discussions related to Citizens'
Band radio. This group will be unmoderated.

RATIONALE:
==========
1. Why move the groups at all? The primary motivation is to make it
easier for interested people to find newsgroups related to ham radio.
The rec.radio hierarchy was created after rec.ham-radio (net.ham-radio
before the Great Renaming). It is an inconsistency in the namespace to
have groups for similar purposes separated from each other, and that
makes it harder for new users to find the desired groups. Further,
this allows a change from ham radio to amateur radio (see next topic).

2. Why .amateur instead of .ham? It has been pointed out in discussion
that "ham radio" is primarily an American term, and carries little
meaning outside the US. In addition, there are negative connotations
attached to "ham" that don't apply to "amateur". Some confusion also
exists in the public mind about just what a "ham radio operator" is,
as evidenced by the occasional "ham operator jams aircraft
frequencies!" when the person in question has never been a licensed
amateur radio operator.

3. Why a .policy group? A significant part of the traffic in
rec.ham-radio is concerned with issues of policy. This includes
substantially all of the flamage, which has in the recent past
included such subjects as whether or not it's legal to order a pizza
via an amateur repeater, the proposal to add a class of license that
does not require knowledge of the International Morse Code, and the
legality of modifying amateur equipment to transmit outside the
amateur bands. The new group is intended to move the flames and the
long discussions that never seem to get anywhere out of the main
group.

4. Why use the name .policy, instead of .rules, .regs, .regulations,
etc.? The group is intended to contain any and all discussion about
any policy issues pertaining to amateur radio. This includes not just
rules and regulations of the FCC and other national regulatory bodies,
but also laws affecting hams (such as the infamous New Jersey scanner
law), lawsuits over nuisance issues, antenna ordinances, frequency
coordination and band planning, and the like. .policy is the best name
that has been suggested for the group out of many possibilities.

5. Why not a .tech group? There are two reasons for this one. The
first is that there's more to ham radio that's non-inflammatory than
just technical discussions, and the object of a new group is to move
the flames, not run away from them. A .tech group would leave those of
us who are interested in more than just technical discussions, yet not
in the seemingly endless legal discussions, left to wade through the
flames. Second, Brian Kantor, who maintains the info-hams mailing
list, has said that info-hams will continue to gateway rec.ham-radio
(and, presumably, rec.radio.amateur.misc) only, and moving the
technical postings off would deprive those on the mailing list.

6. Why create a .cb group? There is currently no place for Citizens' Band
radio discussions explicit in the hierarchy. These postings currently wind
up in rec.ham-radio, where they tend to generate flamage all out of
proportion to their volume.


THE MECHANICS OF THE VOTE:
==========================

The voting period will run from Monday, 7 January 1991 until Monday, 28
January 1991. Only votes received during that period will be counted.
Each proposal is a separate vote, and must be voted on separately under
the Guidelines for Group Creation (which have been applied to renames as
well in the past).

Please edit and send in the ballot below. Each ballot will be stripped of
all but the From: line and the lines containing valid votes by an automatic
process; I won't see any comments included. No individual acknowledgments
will be mailed. Votes will be acknowledged en masse in a posting on Thursday,
18 January 1991, and complete vote results will be posted on Tuesday, 29
January 1991.

For each proposal, indicate your choice of a yes vote or a no vote by
placing a Y or N, respectively, at the beginning of the line. The first
character on the line that is either a Y or an N (case doesn't matter)
will be counted as your vote on that proposal. You may abstain from any
particular vote by deleting the line entirely from the ballot. An invalid
line (one not containing a Y or an N before the "Proposal #n:" tag) will be
treated as an abstention, as well. Mail the completed ballot to me at
this address, jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu, with the characters "VOTE"
somewhere in the Subject: line. (Again, case doesn't matter.) Replying to
this message with your newsreader's mail reply command ("R" in rn, readnews,
vnews, and vn; I don't know nn's commamd) will work fine. Votes posted to
the net will be summarily ignored and may earn the poster a free flame from
the net.police.

THE BALLOT:
===========
? Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
? Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
? Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
? Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
? Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb



- --
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"I smell a scientific fish." -- Chip Salzenberg


>Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!njin!rutgers!usc!wuarchive!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
>From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
>Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap
>Subject: MASS ACKNOWLEDGMENT: rec.ham-radio reorganization
>Message-ID: <45...@lib.tmc.edu>
>Date: 17 Jan 91 12:38:01 GMT
>Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu
>Followup-To: news.groups
>Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
>Lines: 157
>Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24270 rec.ham-radio:19508 rec.ham-radio.packet:3420 rec.ham-radio.swap:919
>Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
>Originator: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu


Votes have been received from the following, as of 6 AM Central on 17 January
1990. A companion posting describes the reorganization, and contains the
ballot used.

" 24298, GIBBONS, JOHN" <abvax!iccgcc.DNET!gibb...@uunet.UU.NET>
07-Jan-1991 1026 <bos...@mr4dec.enet.dec.com>
adec23!ma...@pembina.cs.UAlberta.CA
adk...@ti-csl.csc.ti.com
anicon!doug (Doug Grant)
autodesk!megalon!abe...@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Only 345 more shopping days until Christmas)
barry@tanstaafl!edgar.Mn.Org (barry)
bi...@mousetrap.canton.mi.us (William S. Johnston)
bio...@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan Biocca)
Bob Manson <man...@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Bob Witte <bo...@col.hp.com>
Bob_...@osu.edu
"Brian Bartholomew" <b...@loggerhead.cis.ufl.edu>
br...@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
brig...@vicom.com (Bill Carson)
bro...@BBN.COM
Charles J. Guest <chg...@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
Charley Kline <c-k...@uiuc.edu>
chk@alias (C. Harald Koch)
chu...@amc.com (Chuck Baldwin)
"CPT Douglas E. Nielsen" <ASQK-...@taegu-emh1.army.mil>
cs0...@unccvax.uncc.edu (John Covington WN4BBJ)
ct...@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Cliff Tuel)
cu...@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson)
da...@amc.com (Dave Schmidt)
David Wright <D.W.W...@stl.stc.co.uk>
d...@caveat.berkeley.edu (Dave Cottingham)
d...@meaddata.com (David Myers)
dil...@pa.dec.com (John Dillon)
e...@gvlv3.GVL.Unisys.COM (Ed Naratil)
Ed Hall <edh...@rand.org>
ed...@jafus.mi.org (Eddy J. Gurney)
electro!ca...@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Carlo Sgro)
eman...@to.sem.it (Emanuele Girlando)
emma...@dhw68k.cts.COM (Mark Hartman)
Eric Peterson <er...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
FINBERG%ebvxcl.d...@RELAY.CS.NET
foxw...@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Bob Foxworth)
fr...@caf.MIT.EDU (Frederick Herrmann)
Gary Bridges <bri...@isuee1.ee.iastate.edu>
ga...@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
ga...@ssd.Kodak.Com (Gary M. Diana (645))
gemed!uunet!crdgw1.ge.com!med.ge.com!sol!wos...@crdgw1.ge.com
Gerben 'P' Vos <gp...@cs.vu.nl>
Gerrit Polder <GERRIT.POLDER%CRZ.A...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
g...@banyan.banyan.com (Gil Pilz@Eng@Banyan)
g...@wpi.wpi.edu (Gregory K Doerschler)
gmo...@nasamail.nasa.gov (GARY A. MORRIS)
gops...@helix.squibb.com
Greg DesBrisay <g...@erg.sri.com>
g...@fig.cray.com (Greg Mansfield)
gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
halley!rhino!wat...@cs.utexas.edu (William Watson)
har...@dg-rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Harry P Bloomberg <h...@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
harvee!e...@uunet.UU.NET (Eric S Johansson)
he...@chg.mcd.mot.com (Ron Heiby)
Henk Peek <he...@nikhefk.nikhef.nl>
Henry Black <hen...@hpspdra.spd.hp.com>
"Henry T. Rand" (AED-FD) <hr...@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
hera!rc...@bellcore.bellcore.com (McConnell, Ronald C., W2IOL)
hi...@tsar.enet.dec.com
Ignatius Tan <i...@siesoft.co.uk>
indep1!pe...@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Franks)
Jay Maynard <jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu>
jcv27%CAS.B...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Jeff Rininger <je...@erg.sri.com>
Jim Hollenback <ho...@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com>
Joe Dubner <dub...@hpspklu.spk.hp.com>
Joe Hamlin <ham...@blackbird.afit.af.mil>
John Gruber<gru...@andy.bgsu.edu>
John Murray <mur...@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
John.J...@equi.com
"Jon W. McCombie" <jmcc...@BBN.COM>
Jordan Brown <jbr...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
j...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Jim Earl)
j...@col400.att.com (J. R. Massi)
jul...@bongo.info.com (Julian Macassey)
j...@alux2.att.com (James V Morgan, Jr)
ka...@research.att.com
kami...@uoftcse.cse.UTOLEDO.edu
ke...@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn)
Kevin Quinlan <kquinlan%cvedg.p...@RELAY.CS.NET>
la...@tc.fluke.COM (Lane Holdcroft)
lar...@snmp.sri.com (Alan Larson)
l...@sat.datapoint.com (Lee Ziegenhals)
lin...@chinacat.unicom.com (Mark Linimon)
lu...@stekt.oulu.fi (Ari Husa OH8NUP)
lyn...@cs.athabascau.ca (Lyndon Nerenberg)
mah...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Mark A. Haun)
mah...@usl.edu (Mahler Stephen J)
marc...@soc1.ssl.berkeley.edu (Will Marchant)
Matthew Allen <M.J....@stl.stc.co.uk>
mbu...@case.MENTOR.COM (Mike Butts)
mcafee.E...@xerox.com
m...@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
"Mike Beaty, Servowriter Engineering" <be...@cxunix.enet.dec.com>
Mike Horne <mhorne%ka7axd.t...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Mike Northam ext 2651 <sns4!mbn%fpssu...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Mike Weihman <mi...@hpsadpe.hp.com>
millbrook!l...@fibercom.com (Larry Johnson)
m...@sq.com (Mark Brader)
ne...@wcc.oz.au (Neil Murray)
NMR...@SATURN.LERC.NASA.GOV
nob...@Kodak.COM (John Spoonhower)
"Ofer Inbar" <c...@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
"Oh brave new worm to have such features in't 15-Jan-1991 1358" <ta...@pstjtt.enet.dec.com>
opel!vk2bea!mic...@uunet.UU.NET
orn...@Kodak.COM (Barry Ornitz)
panix!Joseph....@cmcl2.NYU.EDU, panix!kc...@cmcl2.NYU.EDU
Paul Gerwitz <ger...@Kodak.COM>
pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU (Paul A. Flaherty)
pb...@midway.uchicago.edu (Peter B. Hayward)
p...@cs.brown.edu (Paul Howard)
p...@ukc.ac.uk
po...@iceland.att.com (Mark B Colosia)
psch...@alf.unomaha.edu (Paul W. Schleck KD3FU)
railnet!r...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu (Rick DeMattia)
re...@mozart.AMD.COM (David F. Reed)
Richard H. Miller <ri...@pavlov.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
rj...@surya.cs.virginia.edu
Roger Taylor <rta...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
scampbel%emdeng.day...@RELAY.CS.NET
sch...@tahoe.unr.edu (Daniel C Schnell)
s...@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Scott Ellington)
se...@amix.commodore.com (Sean Petty)
"Sid B. Bernstein" (AED-EWD|ARCS) <si...@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
sk...@echo.canberra.edu.au (Carl Makin)
sk...@spot.Colorado.EDU (WU SHI-KUEI)
sta...@phoenix.com (John Stanley)
st...@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Schallehn)
ste...@decwrl.dec.com (Steven Philipson)
sunriv!ro...@uunet.UU.NET
Ted Cowie <tvcent!t...@uunet.UU.NET>
teda!je...@decwrl.dec.com (I know you are! But what am I?)
teda!mi...@decwrl.dec.com (Mikel Lechner)
"Thomas Stingl, DL5SBS" <STINGL%i70vca%iravcl.i...@RELAY.CS.NET>
ti...@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Timothy D Aanerud)
Tom Haapanen <t...@mims-iris.waterloo.edu>
UUP...@HELIOS.LERC.NASA.GOV
va...@tegra.com
Visualize Whirled Peas <bre...@anarky.enet.dec.com>
w...@Eng.Sun.COM (Dennis Henderson)
wea...@news18.sfc.Sony.COM (Eric Weaver)
"Wolfgang Tremmel, Postmaster" <tremmel%ira.u...@RELAY.CS.NET>
wolves.uucp!g...@mcnc.org (Gregory G. Woodbury)
woods@eci386 (Greg A. Woods)
ww...@ciba-geigy.ch (Wolfgang Wetz)
- --
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"Fahrvergnugen, y'all." -- Volkswagen billboard in Houston


>Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!njin!rutgers!usc!wuarchive!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
>From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
>Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap
>Subject: SECOND CALL FOR VOTES: rec.ham-radio reorganization
>Message-ID: <45...@lib.tmc.edu>
>Date: 17 Jan 91 12:47:04 GMT
>Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu
>Followup-To: news.groups
>Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
>Lines: 130
>Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24271 rec.ham-radio:19509 rec.ham-radio.packet:3421 rec.ham-radio.swap:920
>Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
>Originator: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu

This is a formal call for votes for the proposed reorganization of
rec.ham-radio.*. The discussion period started on December 4, 1990, and
has run for just over the required 30 days (extended from the original
ending time of 31 December 1990 due to the Christmas and New Year's
holidays). Please read this entire posting before sending in your
vote; the ballot to be used is at the end. I'm processing ballots
automatically, and not following the instructions below may result in
your vote not getting counted.

THE PROPOSAL:
=============
The following groups are to be renamed:
rec.ham-radio => rec.radio.amateur.misc
rec.ham-radio.packet => rec.radio.amateur.packet
rec.ham-radio.swap => rec.radio.swap
Groups will be renamed by creating the replacement group, asking site
admins to alias the old group to the new one, and rmgrouping the old
group after traffic in it has died down, hopefully about a month later.
This method has been shown to work in other hierarchies.

The following groups are to be created:
rec.radio.amateur.policy
This group is intended to contain any and all discussion about policy
issues pertaining to amateur radio, including, but not limited to,
rules, regulations, laws, and legal actions by and against amateur
radio operators. This group is to be unmoderated.

rec.radio.cb
This group is intended to contain discussions related to Citizens'
Band radio. This group will be unmoderated.

RATIONALE:
==========
1. Why move the groups at all? The primary motivation is to make it
easier for interested people to find newsgroups related to ham radio.
The rec.radio hierarchy was created after rec.ham-radio (net.ham-radio
before the Great Renaming). It is an inconsistency in the namespace to
have groups for similar purposes separated from each other, and that
makes it harder for new users to find the desired groups. Further,
this allows a change from ham radio to amateur radio (see next topic).

2. Why .amateur instead of .ham? It has been pointed out in discussion
that "ham radio" is primarily an American term, and carries little
meaning outside the US. In addition, there are negative connotations
attached to "ham" that don't apply to "amateur". Some confusion also
exists in the public mind about just what a "ham radio operator" is,
as evidenced by the occasional "ham operator jams aircraft
frequencies!" when the person in question has never been a licensed
amateur radio operator.

3. Why a .policy group? A significant part of the traffic in
rec.ham-radio is concerned with issues of policy. This includes
substantially all of the flamage, which has in the recent past
included such subjects as whether or not it's legal to order a pizza
via an amateur repeater, the proposal to add a class of license that
does not require knowledge of the International Morse Code, and the
legality of modifying amateur equipment to transmit outside the
amateur bands. The new group is intended to move the flames and the
long discussions that never seem to get anywhere out of the main
group.

4. Why use the name .policy, instead of .rules, .regs, .regulations,
etc.? The group is intended to contain any and all discussion about
any policy issues pertaining to amateur radio. This includes not just
rules and regulations of the FCC and other national regulatory bodies,
but also laws affecting hams (such as the infamous New Jersey scanner
law), lawsuits over nuisance issues, antenna ordinances, frequency
coordination and band planning, and the like. .policy is the best name
that has been suggested for the group out of many possibilities.

5. Why not a .tech group? There are two reasons for this one. The
first is that there's more to ham radio that's non-inflammatory than
just technical discussions, and the object of a new group is to move
the flames, not run away from them. A .tech group would leave those of
us who are interested in more than just technical discussions, yet not
in the seemingly endless legal discussions, left to wade through the
flames. Second, Brian Kantor, who maintains the info-hams mailing
list, has said that info-hams will continue to gateway rec.ham-radio
(and, presumably, rec.radio.amateur.misc) only, and moving the
technical postings off would deprive those on the mailing list.

6. Why create a .cb group? There is currently no place for Citizens' Band
radio discussions explicit in the hierarchy. These postings currently wind
up in rec.ham-radio, where they tend to generate flamage all out of
proportion to their volume.


THE MECHANICS OF THE VOTE:
==========================

The voting period will run from Monday, 7 January 1991 until Monday, 28
January 1991. Only votes received during that period will be counted.
Each proposal is a separate vote, and must be voted on separately under
the Guidelines for Group Creation (which have been applied to renames as
well in the past).

Please edit and send in the ballot below. Each ballot will be stripped of
all but the From: line and the lines containing valid votes by an automatic
process; I won't see any comments included. No individual acknowledgments
will be mailed. Votes will be acknowledged en masse in a posting on Thursday,
18 January 1991, and complete vote results will be posted on Tuesday, 29
January 1991.

For each proposal, indicate your choice of a yes vote or a no vote by
placing a Y or N, respectively, at the beginning of the line. The first
character on the line that is either a Y or an N (case doesn't matter)
will be counted as your vote on that proposal. You may abstain from any
particular vote by deleting the line entirely from the ballot. An invalid
line (one not containing a Y or an N before the "Proposal #n:" tag) will be
treated as an abstention, as well. Mail the completed ballot to me at
this address, jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu, with the characters "VOTE"
somewhere in the Subject: line. (Again, case doesn't matter.) Replying to
this message with your newsreader's mail reply command ("R" in rn, readnews,
vnews, and vn; I don't know nn's commamd) will work fine. Votes posted to
the net will be summarily ignored and may earn the poster a free flame from
the net.police.

THE BALLOT:
===========
? Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
? Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
? Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
? Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
? Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb


- --
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"Fahrvergnugen, y'all." -- Volkswagen billboard in Houston


>Path: gmdzi!unido!fauern!ira.uka.de!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!lib!thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
>From: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard)
>Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap
>Subject: VOTE RESULTS: rec.ham-radio reorganization
>Message-ID: <46...@lib.tmc.edu>
>Date: 28 Jan 91 12:22:34 GMT
>Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu
>Followup-To: news.groups
>Organization: University of Texas Medical School at Houston
>Lines: 280
>Xref: gmdzi news.groups:24389 rec.ham-radio:19908 rec.ham-radio.packet:3466 rec.ham-radio.swap:941
>Nntp-Posting-Host: thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu
>Originator: jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu

The voting period for the rec.ham-radio.* reorganization is now over.
The proposals to be voted on were:
Proposal #1: Rename rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc
Proposal #2: Rename rec.ham-radio.packet to rec.radio.amateur.packet
Proposal #3: Rename rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap
Proposal #4: Create rec.radio.amateur.policy
Proposal #5: Create rec.radio.cb

The results are as follows:
Proposal 1: 172 to 47...margin 125, percent in favor 78.538813
Proposal 2: 178 to 42...margin 136, percent in favor 80.909091
Proposal 3: 177 to 44...margin 133, percent in favor 80.090498
Proposal 4: 173 to 44...margin 129, percent in favor 79.723502
Proposal 5: 160 to 49...margin 111, percent in favor 76.555024

As you can see, all five proposals have passed, since all five have a margin
of yes votes over no votes of greater than 100, and all five have more than
67% (2/3) of the votes cast being yes votes.

The five-day period of checking for duplicates and invalid votes begins as of
the time that these results appear in news.announce.newgroups, per the
Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. If no problems that change the outcome of
any proposal are found, then I will ask Eliot Lear to issue newgroup messages
for rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.radio.amateur.packet, rec.radio.swap,
rec.radio.amateur.policy, and rec.radio.cb. In a month, I will ask him to
repost the newgroup messages, and post rmgroups for rec.ham-radio,
rec.ham-radio.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap. I would ask sysadmins on the
net to alias rec.ham-radio to rec.radio.amateur.misc, rec.ham-radio.packet to
rec.radio.amateur.packet, and rec.ham-radio.swap to rec.radio.swap when they
receive the newgroup messages - but not before.

Thanks go to all who provided input into the process of shaping this proposal.
It started out as one man's idea, but quickly grew to encompass just about
every input even remotely compatible with the overall objective. Thanks also
go to all who voted - as you can see, every vote counts, as just 6 votes the
other way would have defeated rec.radio.cb.

For those who keep track of when votes are received, 85 were received the
first day, 128 by the fourth, 148 by the tenth, and 33 the day after the
second call for votes was posted. Only 14 were received in the last week.

I wound up writing a shell script to massage ballots received into the format
you see below, and an awk program to generate the report at the top of this
message. Anyone who's interested in those pieces of cruft (really, they're
not pretty - they just work), just drop me a note and I'll pass them along.

The votes received are listed below: (Y=yes, N=no, A=abstain)

+---------Proposal #1
| +-------Proposal #2
| | +-----Proposal #3
| | | +---Proposal #4
| | | | +-Proposal #5
V V V V V From: line as received
Y Y Y Y Y " 24298, GIBBONS, JOHN" <abvax!iccgcc.DNET!gibb...@uunet.UU.NET>
N N N N N 07-Jan-1991 1026 <bos...@mr4dec.enet.dec.com>
N N N N N a...@mace.cc.purdue.edu
N Y Y Y Y adec23!ma...@pembina.cs.UAlberta.CA
Y Y Y Y Y adept!al...@cs.utexas.edu (Alan Ruffer)
Y Y Y Y Y adept!j...@cs.utexas.edu (Jim Benoit)
Y Y Y Y Y adept!ly...@cs.utexas.edu (Evelyn Ruffer)
Y Y Y N A adk...@ti-csl.csc.ti.com
Y Y Y Y A Andreas Bjorklind <a...@IDA.LiU.SE>
N N N N A Andrew Siegel <a...@nbc1.ge.com>
Y Y Y Y Y anicon!doug (Doug Grant)
Y Y Y Y Y autodesk!megalon!abe...@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Only 345 more shopping days until Christmas)
Y Y Y N Y barry@tanstaafl!edgar.Mn.Org (barry)
N Y N Y Y Bernhard Buettner <buet...@informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de>
N N N N N bi...@mousetrap.canton.mi.us (William S. Johnston)
Y Y Y Y Y bio...@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan Biocca)
Y Y Y Y Y Bob Manson <man...@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Y Y Y Y N Bob Witte <bo...@col.hp.com>
Y Y Y N N BOB WOOD WA7MXZ <BO...@cc.usu.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y Bob_...@osu.edu
Y Y Y Y Y bootsie!olson (Eric K. Olson)
Y Y Y Y Y "Brian Bartholomew" <b...@loggerhead.cis.ufl.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y br...@nucleus.AMD.COM (Brian McMinn)
N N N N N br...@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)
Y Y Y Y Y brig...@vicom.com (Bill Carson)
Y Y Y Y A bro...@BBN.COM
Y Y Y Y Y Charles J. Guest <chg...@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
Y Y Y Y A Charley Kline <c-k...@uiuc.edu>
N N N N N Charlie Panek <char...@lsid.hp.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Charlie Root <ro...@utcrt2.utc.chalmers.se>
Y Y Y Y Y chk@alias (C. Harald Koch)
Y Y N Y N chu...@amc.com (Chuck Baldwin)
Y Y Y Y Y chu...@tc.fluke.COM (Chuck Bowden)
Y Y Y Y Y connolly%li...@cs.umass.edu (Christopher Connolly)
Y Y Y Y Y "CPT Douglas E. Nielsen" <ASQK-...@taegu-emh1.army.mil>
Y Y Y Y Y cs0...@unccvax.uncc.edu (John Covington WN4BBJ)
Y Y N N Y ct...@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Cliff Tuel)
Y Y Y Y Y cu...@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Curt Sampson)
Y Y Y Y Y da...@amc.com (Dave Schmidt)
Y Y Y Y Y David Wright <D.W.W...@stl.stc.co.uk>
N N N N Y d...@caveat.berkeley.edu (Dave Cottingham)
Y Y Y Y Y d...@meaddata.com (David Myers)
Y Y Y Y Y Denny Lim <dl...@BBN.COM>
Y Y Y Y Y dil...@pa.dec.com (John Dillon)
Y Y Y Y N Don_E...@cup.portal.com
N N N N Y Doug Faunt N6TQS 415-688-8269 <fa...@cisco.com>
N Y Y Y Y Doug....@Central.Sun.COM (Douglas Tabor [Sun Colorado Commercial SE])
Y Y Y Y Y d...@css.itd.umich.edu
Y Y Y Y Y Duncan Elliott <du...@eecg.toronto.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y dve...@dbase.A-T.COM (Dan Veditz)
Y Y Y Y Y ea...@rcf.rsmas.miami.edu
N N N N Y e...@gvlv3.GVL.Unisys.COM (Ed Naratil)
Y Y Y Y Y Ed Hall <edh...@rand.org>
N N N N Y ed...@jafus.mi.org (Eddy J. Gurney)
Y Y Y Y Y electro!ca...@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Carlo Sgro)
Y Y Y Y Y eman...@to.sem.it (Emanuele Girlando)
Y Y Y Y Y emma...@dhw68k.cts.COM (Mark Hartman)
Y Y Y Y Y eplunix!i...@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Ishmael J. Stefanov-Wagner)
Y Y Y Y N Eric Peterson <er...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
N N N N Y FINBERG%ebvxcl.d...@RELAY.CS.NET
Y Y Y Y Y f...@rci.dk (Flemming Kraglund)
Y Y Y Y Y foxw...@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Bob Foxworth)
N N N N N Fred....@West.Sun.COM (Fred Lloyd SUN Phoenix SE 602-275-4242)
Y Y Y Y A fr...@caf.MIT.EDU (Frederick Herrmann)
Y Y Y Y N Gary Bridges <bri...@isuee1.ee.iastate.edu>
Y Y Y Y N "Gary D. Archer" <arc...@stlvm2.iinus1.ibm.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Gary.R...@f131.n321.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Reardon)
Y Y Y Y Y ga...@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
N N N N N ga...@ssd.Kodak.Com (Gary M. Diana (645))
Y Y Y Y Y gba...@x102c.ess.harris.com (Gary Bastin 60293)
Y Y Y Y Y gemed!uunet!crdgw1.ge.com!med.ge.com!sol!wos...@crdgw1.ge.com
Y Y Y Y Y georgep%sail.lab...@RELAY.CS.NET
Y Y Y Y Y Gerben 'P' Vos <gp...@cs.vu.nl>
Y Y Y Y Y Gerrit Polder <GERRIT.POLDER%CRZ.A...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Y Y Y Y Y g...@banyan.banyan.com (Gil Pilz@Eng@Banyan)
Y Y Y Y N g...@wpi.wpi.edu (Gregory K Doerschler)
Y Y Y Y Y gmo...@nasamail.nasa.gov (GARY A. MORRIS)
Y Y Y Y N gops...@helix.squibb.com
Y Y Y Y Y gra...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (William Graham)
Y Y Y Y Y Greg DesBrisay <g...@erg.sri.com>
Y Y Y Y Y g...@fig.cray.com (Greg Mansfield)
Y Y Y N N gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
A A Y A A halley!rhino!wat...@cs.utexas.edu (William Watson)
Y Y Y Y Y Harri Salminen <h...@nic.funet.fi>
Y Y Y Y Y har...@dg-rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Y Y Y Y Y Harry P Bloomberg <h...@unix.cis.pitt.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y harvee!e...@uunet.UU.NET (Eric S Johansson)
Y Y Y Y Y he...@chg.mcd.mot.com (Ron Heiby)
Y Y Y Y Y Henk Peek <he...@nikhefk.nikhef.nl>
N Y Y Y Y Henry Black <hen...@hpspdra.spd.hp.com>
N N N N N "Henry T. Rand" (AED-FD) <hr...@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Y Y Y Y Y hera!rc...@bellcore.bellcore.com (McConnell, Ronald C., W2IOL)
Y Y Y Y Y hi...@tsar.enet.dec.com
Y Y Y Y Y hk...@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Hamid N. Khan)
A Y Y Y Y h...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin)
Y Y Y Y Y Ignatius Tan <i...@siesoft.co.uk>
Y Y Y Y Y indep1!pe...@uunet.UU.NET (Peter Franks)
N N N N Y Jay Kesterson <ja...@hpfcso.fc.hp.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Jay Maynard <jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y jcv27%CAS.B...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
N N N N N Jeff Rininger <je...@erg.sri.com>
N N N Y Y jer...@canada.sbi.com (Jerry Simonowits)
N N N Y Y Jim Hollenback <ho...@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com>
N N N N N jim....@w8grt.fidonet.org (Jim Grubs)
Y Y Y Y Y Joe Dubner <dub...@hpspklu.spk.hp.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Joe Hamlin <ham...@blackbird.afit.af.mil>
Y Y Y Y Y John Gruber<gru...@andy.bgsu.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y John Murray <mur...@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
N N N N N John Schmidt <j...@hpfclw.fc.hp.com>
Y Y Y Y Y John.J...@equi.com
Y Y Y Y Y "Jon W. McCombie" <jmcc...@BBN.COM>
Y Y Y A A Jordan Brown <jbr...@prodnet.la.locus.com>
Y Y Y Y Y j...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Jim Earl)
Y Y Y Y Y j...@col400.att.com (J. R. Massi)
Y Y Y Y Y j...@hydra.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jon T. Adams)
N N N N N jul...@bongo.info.com (Julian Macassey)
Y Y Y Y Y j...@alux2.att.com (James V Morgan, Jr)
Y Y Y Y Y ka...@research.att.com
Y Y Y Y Y kami...@uoftcse.cse.UTOLEDO.edu
N N N N N ke4zv!ga...@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
N N N N Y ke...@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kim DeVaughn)
Y Y Y Y Y Kevin Quinlan <kquinlan%cvedg.p...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Y Y Y Y Y la...@noao.edu (Steve Lane)
Y Y Y Y Y la...@tc.fluke.COM (Lane Holdcroft)
N N N N N lar...@snmp.sri.com (Alan Larson)
Y Y Y Y Y l...@sat.datapoint.com (Lee Ziegenhals)
Y Y Y Y N lin...@chinacat.unicom.com (Mark Linimon)
Y Y Y Y Y lu...@stekt.oulu.fi (Ari Husa OH8NUP)
Y Y Y Y N lyn...@cs.athabascau.ca (Lyndon Nerenberg)
Y Y Y Y Y m...@harris.cis.ksu.edu (Myron A. Calhoun)
Y Y Y Y Y mah...@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Mark A. Haun)
N N N N N mah...@usl.edu (Mahler Stephen J)
Y Y Y Y Y marc...@soc1.ssl.berkeley.edu (Will Marchant)
Y Y Y Y Y mar...@Corp.Sun.COM (Mark Maxwell-Keiser)
Y Y Y Y Y mas1!br...@apple.com (Bite the Wax Tadpole)
Y Y Y Y Y Matthew Allen <M.J....@stl.stc.co.uk>
N N N N N mbu...@case.MENTOR.COM (Mike Butts)
N N N N N mcafee.E...@xerox.com
Y Y Y Y Y m...@presto.ig.com (Michael C. Berch)
Y Y Y Y Y "Mike Beaty, Servowriter Engineering" <be...@cxunix.enet.dec.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Mike Horne <mhorne%ka7axd.t...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Y Y Y Y A Mike Northam ext 2651 <sns4!mbn%fpssu...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Y Y Y Y Y Mike Weihman <mi...@hpsadpe.hp.com>
Y Y Y Y N millbrook!l...@fibercom.com (Larry Johnson)
Y Y Y Y Y mlef...@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Marc Lefebvre, Ireq, Hydro-Quebec, QC, Canada 514-652-8554)
Y Y Y A A m...@sq.com (Mark Brader)
N N N N N mwe...@sunbird.Central.Sun.COM (Mike Westerhof SE Chicago Metro)
Y Y Y Y Y ne...@wcc.oz.au (Neil Murray)
Y Y Y N Y NMR...@SATURN.LERC.NASA.GOV
Y Y Y Y Y nob...@Kodak.COM (John Spoonhower)
Y Y Y Y Y nov...@cod.nosc.mil (John W. Novotny)
Y Y Y A A "Ofer Inbar" <c...@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y ogicse!hpupora.nsr.hp.com!Mark.Zenier%ssc%hpu...@decwrl.dec.com
N N N N Y "Oh brave new worm to have such features in't 15-Jan-1991 1358" <ta...@pstjtt.enet.dec.com>
Y Y Y Y N opel!vk2bea!mic...@uunet.UU.NET
Y Y Y Y Y orn...@Kodak.COM (Barry Ornitz)
Y Y Y Y Y panix!Joseph....@cmcl2.NYU.EDU, panix!kc...@cmcl2.NYU.EDU
Y Y Y Y Y Panos Economopoulos <pa...@db.toronto.edu>
Y Y Y Y N Paul Gerwitz <ger...@Kodak.COM>
Y Y Y Y Y pa...@shasta.Stanford.EDU (Paul A. Flaherty)
Y Y Y Y Y pb...@midway.uchicago.edu (Peter B. Hayward)
Y Y Y Y N p...@cs.brown.edu (Paul Howard)
Y Y Y Y Y Phil Howard KA9WGN <ph...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y p...@ukc.ac.uk
Y Y Y Y Y po...@iceland.att.com (Mark B Colosia)
Y Y Y Y Y psch...@alf.unomaha.edu (Paul W. Schleck KD3FU)
Y Y Y Y Y railnet!r...@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu (Rick DeMattia)
Y Y Y Y Y Randy Nelson VE3WRN <rne...@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Y Y Y Y Y rb...@necis.nec.com (Rich Bono - NM1D)
N N N N N Reality is the original Rorschach 18-Jan-1991 0932 <"dm_johnson"@helix.enet.dec.com>
N N N N N re...@Kodak.COM (R.L.Christiansen, Engineering Research Division)
Y Y Y Y Y re...@mozart.AMD.COM (David F. Reed)
Y Y Y Y Y Richard H. Miller <ri...@pavlov.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y rj...@surya.cs.virginia.edu
Y Y Y Y Y "Rob Mayfield, ASC" <XT...@lv.sait.edu.au>
N N N N N Robert P. Scott - Won't work without a net. <r...@decvax.dec.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Roger Taylor <rta...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y Ron Kirkpatrick <ronk%tektroni...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Y Y Y Y A rsf...@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Y Y Y Y Y russ...@ihlpb.att.com
Y Y Y Y Y scampbel%emdeng.day...@RELAY.CS.NET
Y Y Y Y Y sch...@tahoe.unr.edu (Daniel C Schnell)
Y Y Y Y Y s...@larry.sal.wisc.edu (Scott Ellington)
Y Y Y Y Y se...@amix.commodore.com (Sean Petty)
N N N N N "Sid B. Bernstein" (AED-EWD|ARCS) <si...@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
N N Y Y Y s...@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us (Sander J. Rabinowitz)
Y Y Y Y Y sk...@echo.canberra.edu.au (Carl Makin)
Y Y Y Y Y Skip La Fetra <f...@hpcuhb.cup.hp.com>
N N N N N sk...@spot.Colorado.EDU (WU SHI-KUEI)
N N N N N sta...@phoenix.com (John Stanley)
Y Y Y Y N ste...@Atherton.COM (Steve Harding)
N Y N Y Y st...@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Schallehn)
N N N N Y ste...@decwrl.dec.com (Steven Philipson)
Y Y Y Y Y sunriv!ro...@uunet.UU.NET
Y Y Y Y Y "Suzy Mercer" <su...@midway.uchicago.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y "System Manager" <sys...@n6vbg.hamavnet.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Tadd <torb...@clutx.clarkson.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y Ted Cowie <tvcent!t...@uunet.UU.NET>
Y Y Y Y Y teda!je...@decwrl.dec.com (I know you are! But what am I?)
Y Y Y Y Y teda!mi...@decwrl.dec.com (Mikel Lechner)
Y Y Y Y N The Wandering Phew <ch...@apple.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Thomas Alan Dockstader <td...@andrew.cmu.edu>
Y Y Y Y Y "Thomas Stingl, DL5SBS" <STINGL%i70vca%iravcl.i...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Y Y Y Y Y ti...@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Timothy D Aanerud)
Y Y Y Y Y Timo Saarinen OH3YN <ts7...@tut.fi>
Y Y Y Y Y Tom Haapanen <t...@mims-iris.waterloo.edu>
N N N N N UUP...@HELIOS.LERC.NASA.GOV
Y Y Y Y N va...@tegra.com
N N N Y Y Visualize Whirled Peas <bre...@anarky.enet.dec.com>
Y Y Y Y Y Walt....@DELOCN.UDEL.EDU
N N N N N w...@Eng.Sun.COM (Dennis Henderson)
Y Y Y Y Y wea...@news18.sfc.Sony.COM (Eric Weaver)
N N N N N WHEL...@WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU
Y Y Y Y Y w...@frc.maf.govt.nz
Y Y Y Y N "Wolfgang Tremmel, Postmaster" <tremmel%ira.u...@RELAY.CS.NET>
Y Y Y Y Y wolves.uucp!g...@mcnc.org (Gregory G. Woodbury)
Y Y Y Y Y woods@eci386 (Greg A. Woods)
N N Y N N wul...@nprdc.navy.mil (Wally Wulfeck)
Y Y Y Y N ww...@ciba-geigy.ch (Wolfgang Wetz)
Y Y Y Y Y xanadu!je...@uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Crilly N6ZFX)
Y Y Y Y Y zehntel!pe...@decwrl.dec.com (Peter Danan)
- --
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmay...@thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"Today is different from yesterday." -- State Department spokesman Margaret
Tutwiler, 17 Jan 91, explaining why they won't negotiate with Saddam Hussein





-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iEYEARECAAYFAmASp/8ACgkQ6Pj0az779o6KDgCfYrvN1P5guXcVB5CB4ptQtQtG
ilIAoMA4Js85vtw02bCzqta79M/b+8BI
=FMBO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[He]

Hey...... Are you rich ? Would you help me out with a little bit of money (maybe at least 2100 dollars)...... I have no job, no wife momentarily...........