--- Regarding Chris Caputo and Altopia ---
Chris Lawrence
I'm going to keep this short. This newsgroup is in no state to make
structured threads possible, so I'm starting this in a new thread. It's
not an ideal way to do it - apologies.
There are many people who use Altopia purely for Usenet abuse purposes;
they do so because Altopia has such lax, lightly enforced rules and
because they provide an untraceable NNTP connection to Usenet. It is
thus very easy for someone to abuse Usenet via Altopia, remain anonymous
and have little chance of any comebacks.
A small group of Usenet vandals, called the 'meowers', have been engaged
in the following operations over the last several months:
o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
o News article forgery
o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
In most cases, these people are using the services of Altopia. They
quote, on their web page, that they use Altopia because Altopia lets
them do things which are normally classed as abuse.
I, and several other people, have reported these incidents to
ab...@alt.net and have received no (zero) replies. I only wish I had
the message IDs but I have changed my system a lot recently and not kept
my older mail. It matters not - others will back this up, I'm sure.
I see that Chris Caputo says <6sh59t$l3o$0...@207.14.113.2> that he would
take action if the above types of abuse were brought to the attention of
ab...@alt.net.
I doubt it. While I applaud Chris's general views on censorship and
'free speech', he has become so wrapped up in them that he has is
utterly blind to the ways in which these can easily be abused. He has
allowed a minority of people (in all probability) to tar the name of
Altopia.
It is no secret that Altopia is considered to be the sewer of Usenet, a
dirty haven for spammers who have lost their legitimate Usenet accounts
through their wholly unacceptable actions. Altopia does more to damage
free speech and censorship issues than any other outfit, because it
allows 100% pure abuse to be associated with these legitimate issues.
Since Altopia has been proven to have absolutely no intention of
cleaning up its act or listening to reports of legitimate abuse of
Usenet, I totally support the idea of UDP for Altopia and will support
it in any way I can. I see no alternative now - the conventional
complaints approach has repeatedly and consistently failed and the abuse
rises daily.
--
Chris Lawrence
Clueless Wombat Cabal
Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> I'm going to keep this short. This newsgroup is in no state to make
> structured threads possible, so I'm starting this in a new thread. It's
> not an ideal way to do it - apologies.
>
> There are many people who use Altopia purely for Usenet abuse purposes;
> they do so because Altopia has such lax, lightly enforced rules and
> because they provide an untraceable NNTP connection to Usenet. It is
> thus very easy for someone to abuse Usenet via Altopia, remain anonymous
> and have little chance of any comebacks.
>
> A small group of Usenet vandals, called the 'meowers', have been engaged
> in the following operations over the last several months:
>
> o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
> o News article forgery
> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
>
more of the abuses you list above. Their participation and tactics are
much more extreme than anything the meowers have done; in fact, I'm beginning
to wonder if they're doing it to fool people like you into thinking "it's
those damn meowers again".
It isn't meowers that are attempting to trash alt.life.sucks and alt.animals.
dolphins. It isn't meowers that have gone around trying to inspire over
a hundred different newsgroups to go to war with alt.life.sucks. I'm not
going to argue that meowers are 100% innocent in the things you name, but
the current controversy is due to the personal vendetta that Skippy and
the HFW are conducting against alt.life.sucks and other groups. While
meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're messing with,
these clowns are making 50 to 100 or more, and constantly morphing to
make it impossible for people to killfile them with most of the newsreader
programs out there.
Please try to keep the players straight ...
(space reserved for various HFW members and/or Skippy to come up with
their usual lies, excuses, and whining about how alt.flame has gotten so
ashamed of their lame net.abuse they're not being answered ...)
--
"Don't you see the peril of stalking a cat?" - Horace, sort of.
Is minic a ghearr teanga duine a scornach
mhm 20x10
wombats r us
Sam
In article <Sx9hveAC...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
> o News article forgery
> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
[ snip ]
> I see that Chris Caputo says <6sh59t$l3o$0...@207.14.113.2> that he would
> take action if the above types of abuse were brought to the attention of
> ab...@alt.net.
>
> I doubt it.
Yes, I see where he says that, but, much like Dave Hayes, his definition of
certain concepts is 180 degrees out of phase with everyone else's. So his
definition of newsgroup flooding has absolutely nothing with everyone
else's definition of the same.
Your best course of action is to take all the evidence, and ask your
provider to alias out news.alt.net
> Since Altopia has been proven to have absolutely no intention of
> cleaning up its act or listening to reports of legitimate abuse of
> Usenet, I totally support the idea of UDP for Altopia and will support
Tell that to your news guy. An active UDP of Altopia is out of the
question, given the current religious beliefs of some people. However, if
you make a good enough case to your news guy, he'll simply alias out
news.alt.net, and you won't have to deal with this crap any more.
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Pete
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>While
>meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're messing with,
>these clowns are making 50 to 100
I wish you had your facts right - the meowers make *hundreds* of posts -
are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
--
Pete
Dave Williams
Sam <sam...@dpinc.ml.org> wrote:
:> Since Altopia has been proven to have absolutely no intention of
:> cleaning up its act or listening to reports of legitimate abuse of
:> Usenet, I totally support the idea of UDP for Altopia and will support
: Tell that to your news guy. An active UDP of Altopia is out of the
: question, given the current religious beliefs of some people. However, if
: you make a good enough case to your news guy, he'll simply alias out
: news.alt.net, and you won't have to deal with this crap any more.
That would be me, then. I've very, very strongly considered aliasing
out Altopia. For me, that kind of action is absolutely one of last
resort - and since traffic from peers that's passed through altopia
receives exactly the same path-stamp as stuff posted by their
customers, it's a step I'd be reluctant to take.
Then again, I also have better than 200,000 customers to take into
account, as well as those currently being affected by Altopia-spew.
At that point, the decision to alias out any site isn't nearly as
cut'n dried as would be ideal.
Pondering,
D.
--
Dave Williams
da...@demon.net
ISP_Ratings
-
-Then again, I also have better than 200,000 customers to take into
-account, as well as those currently being affected by Altopia-spew.
-At that point, the decision to alias out any site isn't nearly as
-cut'n dried as would be ideal.
Any information on Mr. Williams porn feed would be very
much appreciate--names of groups carried, etc.
-
-Pondering,
You're too dumb to be 'pondering' Williams.
Steve
news.admin.censorship
-D.
Sam
[ 1 newsgroup deboursified ]
In article <35ee7da4...@news.alt.net>,
bou...@alt.net (ISP_Ratings) writes:
> Any information on Mr. Williams porn feed would be very
> much appreciate--names of groups carried, etc.
What's a matter, Speedbump? Your existing porn feed is not good enough.
Why do you need a porn feed anyway, Bump? It's not that it does you any
good, given the loss of your functioning limbs.
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Chris Lawrence
>Actually, it's Skippy and various members of the HFW who have been doing
>more of the abuses you list above. Their participation and tactics are
>much more extreme than anything the meowers have done;
So Altopia is being used for abuse in many other areas.
> in fact, I'm beginning
>to wonder if they're doing it to fool people like you into thinking "it's
>those damn meowers again".
Maybe they are, but my dealings with large-scale abuse and denial of
service attacks through Altopia are with the meowers and possibly some
others getting their snout in.
>It isn't meowers that are attempting to trash alt.life.sucks and alt.animals.
>dolphins. It isn't meowers that have gone around trying to inspire over
>a hundred different newsgroups to go to war with alt.life.sucks.
It is the meowers who have given me first-hand experience with people
abusing newsgroups via Altopia.
> I'm not
>going to argue that meowers are 100% innocent in the things you name,
They're 100% guilty of the things I name. That doesn't mean that others
aren't doing them too.
> but
>the current controversy is due to the personal vendetta that Skippy and
>the HFW are conducting against alt.life.sucks and other groups.
I'm not here to argue "My newsgroup abuse is more painful than your
newsgroup abuse". I'm here to find out if there any reasons why Altopia
should not be subject to UDP given that it is a write-only haven for
spammers which refuses to clean up its act.
> While
>meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're messing with,
>these clowns are making 50 to 100 or more, and constantly morphing to
>make it impossible for people to killfile them with most of the newsreader
>programs out there.
5 to 10 posts per day is a gross underestimation - 500 to 1000 posts per
day is nearer the mark, each several Kb long, many with headers that
long. All from the meowers, mostly via Altopia.
>Please try to keep the players straight ...
Please do not make assumptions - the meowers are responsible for the
Usenet abuse to which I refer, but the main point is that they do it via
alt.net which refuses to acknowledge this abuse. Chris Caputo is saying
one thing in public but doing nothing when it comes to action time.
>(space reserved for various HFW members and/or Skippy to come up with
>their usual lies, excuses, and whining about how alt.flame has gotten so
>ashamed of their lame net.abuse they're not being answered ...)
Not interested.
--
Chris Lawrence
Chris Lawrence
0...@dpinc.ml.org> writes
>Yes, I see where he says that, but, much like Dave Hayes, his definition of
>certain concepts is 180 degrees out of phase with everyone else's.
Evidently.
> So his
>definition of newsgroup flooding has absolutely nothing with everyone
>else's definition of the same.
Maybe Chris would like to list the types of abuse he will action and
also define that abuse?
>Your best course of action is to take all the evidence, and ask your
>provider to alias out news.alt.net
I'd rather they didn't. If they did, I would want them to it very
publicly and announce it so that people knew why Altopia was being
shunned. I would want Chris Caputo to know that it had been done.
Maybe he would think about those unanswered abuse reports.
I can kill alt.net locally if I want; indeed I have been doing. This
doesn't prevent denial of service attacks via headers reaching me, which
killing upstream would do. As far as I am concerned that is brushing it
under the carpet - Altopia's very lax rules are being broken and the
abuse is rising.
Any good intentions which Chris had regarding free speech, etc, are
being swamped by the abuse of his service. I would have thought he
would be concerned about this, but seemingly not.
>Tell that to your news guy.
"My news guy" is here now and is well aware of the problems. I don't
envy his job, to be honest.
> An active UDP of Altopia is out of the
>question, given the current religious beliefs of some people.
For people new to this like me, can someone point me to a FAQ or a guide
explaining what is involved in UDP and how it would go from an idea into
actual action please?
> However, if
>you make a good enough case to your news guy, he'll simply alias out
>news.alt.net, and you won't have to deal with this crap any more.
I wish to tackle the abuse issues which are being raised rather than
hide from them. Altopia has a duty to everyone, including itself, to
keep an eye on abuse. It is failing in that duty on an ongoing basis.
--
Chris Lawrence
Clueless Wombat Cabal
Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> In article <6sl50p$6jj$1...@leol.net-link.net>, Clueless Wombat Cabal
> <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
(snip)
>
>> While
>>meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're messing with,
>>these clowns are making 50 to 100 or more, and constantly morphing to
>>make it impossible for people to killfile them with most of the newsreader
>>programs out there.
>
> 5 to 10 posts per day is a gross underestimation
Apiece. I just looked at demon.local on dejanews and stand by my accounting.
> - 500 to 1000 posts per
> day is nearer the mark, each several Kb long, many with headers that
> long. All from the meowers, mostly via Altopia.
500 to 1000 posts per day? Not even alt.flame or the Nose gets that many
posts. This is a gross exaggeration.
Unless you have a very wide definition of meower that means "half the
people on Usenet I don't like".
>
>>Please try to keep the players straight ...
>
> Please do not make assumptions
I'm not; you are mistaken in the identity of some of the people you complain
about.
> - the meowers are responsible for the
> Usenet abuse to which I refer, but the main point is that they do it via
> alt.net which refuses to acknowledge this abuse. Chris Caputo is saying
> one thing in public but doing nothing when it comes to action time.
>
My major complaint is that newsgroup flooding is going on in alt.life.sucks
and nothing has been done about it. I think CC needs to define his nebulous
policy against newsgroup flooding, because it would seem that the complaints
he has received about it from others have not been listened to.
Chris Lawrence
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>> 5 to 10 posts per day is a gross underestimation
>
>Apiece. I just looked at demon.local on dejanews and stand by my accounting.
Demon.local changed recently and is much quieter as a result. Before
that, we did indeed have 500 to 1000 posts per day. They are all on CD
if you are that desperate.
>> - 500 to 1000 posts per
>> day is nearer the mark, each several Kb long, many with headers that
>> long. All from the meowers, mostly via Altopia.
>
>500 to 1000 posts per day? Not even alt.flame or the Nose gets that many
>posts. This is a gross exaggeration.
These were all xposted to alt.flame.* and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
day. I am not exaggerating.
>Unless you have a very wide definition of meower that means "half the
>people on Usenet I don't like".
In that case I would have said "half the people on Usenet I don't like".
As it is, I said "meower", a "meower" being someone who uses the word
"meow" and xposts to the meow home groups.
>>>Please try to keep the players straight ...
>>
>> Please do not make assumptions
>
>I'm not; you are mistaken in the identity of some of the people you complain
>about.
Okay. If I am then I hold my hands up. I'm not interested in arguing
the toss. I'm not that interested in the gang name of the 'players' -
they're all infantile vandals.
I _am_ interested in the fact that these people post their abuse through
Altopia and that Altopia ignores complaints of that abuse, even when the
president of Altopia has said (effectively lied) that he will take
action against any of the types of abuse he mentions. Such abuse has
been reported and goes unanswered. I see that I am not alone in this
experience.
>My major complaint is that newsgroup flooding is going on in alt.life.sucks
>and nothing has been done about it. I think CC needs to define his nebulous
>policy against newsgroup flooding, because it would seem that the complaints
>he has received about it from others have not been listened to.
No arguments there...
[original newsgroup only]
--
Chris Lawrence
viki...@my-dejanews.com
meowers has been harrassing folks in fan groups xposting into alt.hahaha
driving the regulars out. At first it's the same old troll shit, then it
gets personal.
One in particular bounces from ISP to ISP. If this Altopia is what you say, is
it possible that his posts are actually coming from Altpia? Not hotmail,
javanet etc. It's become ridiculous, and there seems to be no way to stop it.
Please tell me I'm wrong. Then tell me how.
Thank You
JT
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Clueless Wombat Cabal
Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> In article <6sm5kk$rrk$1...@leol.net-link.net>, Clueless Wombat Cabal
> <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>>> 5 to 10 posts per day is a gross underestimation
>>
>>Apiece. I just looked at demon.local on dejanews and stand by my accounting.
>
> Demon.local changed recently and is much quieter as a result. Before
> that, we did indeed have 500 to 1000 posts per day. They are all on CD
> if you are that desperate.
>
>>> - 500 to 1000 posts per
>>> day is nearer the mark, each several Kb long, many with headers that
>>> long. All from the meowers, mostly via Altopia.
>>
>>500 to 1000 posts per day? Not even alt.flame or the Nose gets that many
>>posts. This is a gross exaggeration.
>
> These were all xposted to alt.flame.* and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
> day. I am not exaggerating.
>
was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
and threatening people's accounts over it. Also, I recall that a demon
UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded alt.flame and the nose with
40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and uncalled for flooding.
You may, of course, continue to make up whatever facts you find amusing ...
>>Unless you have a very wide definition of meower that means "half the
>>people on Usenet I don't like".
>
> In that case I would have said "half the people on Usenet I don't like".
> As it is, I said "meower", a "meower" being someone who uses the word
> "meow" and xposts to the meow home groups.
Then you grossly exaggerated the problem.
>
>>>>Please try to keep the players straight ...
>>>
>>> Please do not make assumptions
>>
>>I'm not; you are mistaken in the identity of some of the people you complain
>>about.
>
> Okay. If I am then I hold my hands up. I'm not interested in arguing
> the toss. I'm not that interested in the gang name of the 'players' -
> they're all infantile vandals.
>
> I _am_ interested in the fact that these people post their abuse through
> Altopia and that Altopia ignores complaints of that abuse, even when the
> president of Altopia has said (effectively lied) that he will take
> action against any of the types of abuse he mentions. Such abuse has
> been reported and goes unanswered. I see that I am not alone in this
> experience.
You aren't. We complained about one of demon's customers last Feb when
he was distributing the HipCrime like javabot he was using to flood alt.flame
with on a demon page. It took a month for anything to be done about it. He's
still got an account there, and last weekend he used it to bot flood alt.flame
with 200-300 "Baby Bladeface" posts.
Perhaps a UDP of demon would be appropriate, too.
Joshua Kramer
> Excuse me, I'm new here, but the word 'meow' caught my eye. A group of
> meowers has been harrassing folks in fan groups xposting into alt.hahaha
> driving the regulars out. At first it's the same old troll shit, then it
> gets personal.
killfile entry should read
"Kill if Newsgroups contains alt.hahaha"
There. Damn, life is so easy.
Andrew Gierth
[FyRE]
Clueless> He's still got an account there, and last weekend he used
Clueless> it to bot flood alt.flame with 200-300 "Baby Bladeface"
Clueless> posts.
Sample please?
If you mention in nanau that a flood is happening, then it can be
dealt with. Since I don't carry alt.flame on my own box, I won't notice
any floods unless either the bot picks them up or they show up on the
posting summaries.
--
Andrew.
Pete
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>> 5 to 10 posts per day is a gross underestimation
>
>Apiece. I just looked at demon.local on dejanews and stand by my accounting.
Yeah. but we've *now* got a G1 working at d.l - so several hundred
crossposts aren't reaching us...
--
Pete
Clueless Wombat Cabal
Andrew Gierth <and...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>> "Clueless" == Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> [FyRE]
> Clueless> He's still got an account there, and last weekend he used
> Clueless> it to bot flood alt.flame with 200-300 "Baby Bladeface"
> Clueless> posts.
>
> Sample please?
They're already gone from my server but I found these at news.netmore.net;
one of the things about it is that the bot posts under various other posters'
identities with phony email addresses and follows up with various combinations
of about 20 to 25 insults. 200 or 300 or more of these over a weekend tends
to make alt.flame hard to read when most of the "Clueless Wombat" or "2-Belo"
or "Whoever" posts are the bot. The NNTP-Posting-Host, quick-silver.demon.co.uk
is constant on these and is FyRE's address ...
Path:
news.netmore.net!uunet!uunet!in2.uu.net!rutgers!news.columbia.edu!panix!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!quick-silver.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Host:
quick-silver.demon.co.uk
Newsgroups:
alt.flame,alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,alt.evil
Date:
Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:05:15 -0700
Message-ID:
<904356315.8911.53...@news.demon.co.uk>
Xref:
nexus.netmore.net alt.evil:582 alt.fan.karl-malden.nose:3757 alt.flame:2001
From:
as5...@thepentagon.com.HAIL.3RIS (Arsenic)
Subject:
Re: Yanks don't teach evolution.
References:
<6s5erf$c...@enews3.newsguy.com>
X-NNTP-Posting-Host:
quick-silver.demon.co.uk:193.237.244.70
X-Trace:
news.demon.co.uk 904356315 nnrp-03:8911 NO-IDENT quick-silver.demon.co.uk:193.237.244.70
X-Complaints-To:
ab...@demon.net
Organisation:
Reptile
X-Newsreader:
Forte Agent 1.8/16.451
Lines:
42
In article <6s5erf$c...@enews3.newsguy.com>,
Roger Williams <rog...@shell1.tiac.net> clambered out of his cot and screeched:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>> Roger Williams <rog...@shell1.tiac.net> wrote:
>
[...]
>
>> Fuckhaid.
>
> Hey now. Don't make us send Rhode Island back down there to straighten
>"y'all" out again. We'd send Massachusetts down there, but that's not even
>a fair fight with Cape Cod tied behind her back and Speedbump Boursy
>leading the charge.
You're the prat who knows all about it. SPANK! I fucked your mouth-breathing
mother 6 times last night - she loved it!
>
> Although I did like that other fuckhead somehow inferring that the
>presence of gourmet coffee shops in Louisiana was an indication that
>civilization has finally made it south of Delaware. Heh.
You must be talking about yourself.
>
>--
>{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} \|/
>{} RogerW rog...@newsguy.com {} 0< -- parrot.net!
>{} http://www.parrot.net ad...@parrot.net {} ^^^^(*)^^^^
>{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} ^^ / \ ^^
HAHAHAHA! You're fetid, no-potential parents are on welfare! Loser!
Loser! Your mother reeks of urine.
--
Baby Bladeface
And another -
Path:
news.netmore.net!uunet!uunet!in4.uu.net!rutgers!news.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!quick-silver.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Host:
quick-silver.demon.co.uk
Newsgroups:
alt.flame,alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,alt.evil
Date:
Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:10:32 -0700
Message-ID:
<904356632.8911.72...@news.demon.co.uk>
Xref:
nexus.netmore.net alt.evil:770 alt.fan.karl-malden.nose:4286 alt.flame:2380
From:
compl3...@his.parents.house (U PORNPIG ASS)
Subject:
Re: I was mailbombed by Meowers
References:
<35f7efc8...@news.alt.net>
X-NNTP-Posting-Host:
quick-silver.demon.co.uk:193.237.244.70
X-Trace:
news.demon.co.uk 904356632 nnrp-03:8911 NO-IDENT quick-silver.demon.co.uk:193.237.244.70
X-Complaints-To:
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Organisation:
Reptile
X-Newsreader:
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Lines:
32
In article <35f7efc8...@news.alt.net>,
cyp...@populus.net (The Cypher) clambered out of his cot and screeched:
>
>>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <35e6dd5d...@news.alt.net>,
>> cyp...@populus.net (The Cypher) writes:
[...]
>>
>>Oh, come off it, Cypher. You're Ausar and you just had to accuse
>>yourself of being Harold just so you could get some attention for
>>yourself in this very popular diversion. How pathetic.
>
>Oh yeah? Post proof.
You're my bitch now, vulva. Your squealing father begs me for
cock!
>
>--
>"In other words, the "joke" is that I'm such a bad
>speller that I can't spell my own name! Clever.
>Original. Awesomely destructive as a flame.
>'Hello? 911? I need an ambulance to the Burn Unit--
>NOW!'" -signed by Bill "Plamer".
Your mother is a useless slag.
--
Baby Bladeface
>
> If you mention in nanau that a flood is happening, then it can be
> dealt with. Since I don't carry alt.flame on my own box, I won't notice
> any floods unless either the bot picks them up or they show up on the
> posting summaries.
>
I think Lee (R. Chason) did mention it ..
FyRE tends to post on weekends so it wouldn't surprise me if the bot returned
on Friday night.
Sam
In article <qp9vpOAD...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <199809030705...@dpinc.ml.org>, Sam <sam-
>0...@dpinc.ml.org> writes
>
>> So his
>>definition of newsgroup flooding has absolutely nothing with everyone
>>else's definition of the same.
>
>Maybe Chris would like to list the types of abuse he will action and
>also define that abuse?
Maybe pigs will fly too. It's not going to happen.
>>Your best course of action is to take all the evidence, and ask your
>>provider to alias out news.alt.net
>
>I'd rather they didn't.
Why not? Do you see anything of value, coming from there?
> If they did, I would want them to it very
>publicly and announce it so that people knew why Altopia was being
>shunned. I would want Chris Caputo to know that it had been done.
>Maybe he would think about those unanswered abuse reports.
A loud announcement isn't necessary. Just quietly drop all the posts on
the floor, and nobody will miss them.
>I can kill alt.net locally if I want; indeed I have been doing. This
>doesn't prevent denial of service attacks via headers reaching me, which
>killing upstream would do. As far as I am concerned that is brushing it
>under the carpet - Altopia's very lax rules are being broken and the
>abuse is rising.
So, get rid of them. Drop their posts. Block their E-mail. Refuse to
serve them your web pages. One thing about the Internet, is that it's
quite easy to pretend that someone doesn't exist.
>Any good intentions which Chris had regarding free speech, etc, are
>being swamped by the abuse of his service. I would have thought he
>would be concerned about this, but seemingly not.
He IS concerned, but in a different way.
>> However, if
>>you make a good enough case to your news guy, he'll simply alias out
>>news.alt.net, and you won't have to deal with this crap any more.
>
>I wish to tackle the abuse issues which are being raised rather than
>hide from them.
You will be wasting your time. Take it from someone who's been familiar
with these so-called "abuse issues" for several years now. Caputo is a
stubborn jackass, and he's not going to change. If you wish to prove that
to yourself, feel free to do so, but I'm telling you that it's going to be
a waste of your time, and you will reach the same exact conclusion: alias
out alt./net.
> Altopia has a duty to everyone, including itself, to
>keep an eye on abuse. It is failing in that duty on an ongoing basis.
Repeat after me: Caputo does not care. He believes that abuse is just a
form of free speech. I think that you may not be familiar with certain
class of American population which hold certain whacky ideas. Caputo is
just a sample representative of the old-time hippies, back from the '60s,
who are a little bit funny in the head, and who had crazy ideas about what
the world should be like, and how things should work. Most of them grew
up and went into politics, itching to put their cockamamie theories and
moralities into practice -- hence you see all the various problems with
American political leadership right now. That's their way to try to
achieve an utopian existence which they dreamed about, back in the old
days, while inhaling dope, and playing Slim Whitman records.
And one of these hippies started alt.net. This is his religion, his
karma, and his ideology. It includes allowing a bunch of miscreants to
run amok. It's one of his ten commandments (or whatever the actual number
of them may be). If you can get the Sci-Fi channel off the satellite
where you are, they are now rerunning Star Trek episodes. One of them
should be "The Way To Eden", which explores this '60s hippie culture
mentality somewhat. I hear that they are restoring many scenes which have
been cut out for syndication, over the years, so you should get quite an
insight.
Asking Caputo to leash in his rogue users, and act responsibly, is like
asking a Lubavitche rabbi to eat ham and eggs for breakfast. It is not
going to happen. The only way to make him go away is to get rid of his
paying customers.
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Sam
In article <6smpvd$5kl$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
<viki...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>One in particular bounces from ISP to ISP. If this Altopia is what you say, is
>it possible that his posts are actually coming from Altpia? Not hotmail,
Probably. You need to look at the path header, and see where it's coming
from.
A good advice for you to follow is to pretend that the From: header does
not exist. Its contents are completely arbitrary, and bear absolutely no
relevance to reality. Anyone can put anything into a From: header. Just
because someone puts hotmail, or anything else in there, doesn't mean
anything.
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Jim Thompson
Joshua Kramer wrote in message ...
>> meowers has been harrassing folks in fan groups xposting into alt.hahaha
>> driving the regulars out. At first it's the same old troll shit, then it
>> gets personal.
>
>killfile entry should read
>
>"Kill if Newsgroups contains alt.hahaha"
>
>There. Damn, life is so easy.
Not so fast. Alt.hahaha is one of the groups I want to read. Most of the
regulars are webtvers with no killfile. I really don't care if this guy
keeps his nose in Karl Malden's. I just don't want him in my face or that
of my friends. It started with xposting to fan groups that such and such
sucks. Before long it came down to calling women whores and other crap.
He/it followed them into other groups like some kind of stalker makeing
demands like "I'll leave you alone if so and so doesn't post here. He was
repeatedly reported to no avail.
I'm all for free speech but come on this is slander.
JT / Sick and tired of waiting for dejanews to pick the previous post
obscurity
> Dave Williams <da...@demon.net> wrote:
> -
> -Then again, I also have better than 200,000 customers to take into
> -account, as well as those currently being affected by Altopia-spew.
> -At that point, the decision to alias out any site isn't nearly as
> -cut'n dried as would be ideal.
>
> much appreciate--names of groups carried, etc.
I'd be more than happy to email you a copy of demon's active file, if you
really want it.
I thought I'd ask first, though. I wouldn't want you to think I was
mailbombing you.
Out of curiosity, why are you interested ? Can't you get enough porn from
altopia ?
--
obscurity.
"Only the great masters of style ever succeed in being obscure." - Oscar Wilde
Jim Thompson
JT
*****************************************
Path:
wn8!attworldnet!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci
.com!205.219.162.3!news.javanet.com!not-for-mail
From: tail...@hotmail.com (Tim Hodge)
Newsgroups: alt.hahaha
Subject: Re: HODGE:WHERE'S THE HUMOR
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:33:07 GMT
Organization: GOLI
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <35f1187...@news.javanet.com>
References: <20730-35...@newsd-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
<01bdd6da$e18a6540$e523450c@computername>
<1desq5p.48u...@frasermac.demon.co.uk>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451
an...@frasermac.demon.co.uk (Andy) meowed:
+Cody <walke...@hotmail.com> wrote:
+> Timmy provides humor,
+> in a roundabout way, dontcha
+> think?
+
+The trolling/response/trolling cycle is not one of humour it's one of
+frustration. Fighting fire with fire however tends only to burn the
+participants (namecalling etc). The biggest move on would be the
+webTV'rs getting a kill file facility. Wonder if that could be done
at
+the administrator side of the news feed? Might be worth asking eh?
Even if they did get killfiles, I've proven that I can gfet around
them if I have to. I can
A. Post with other people's name and different e-mail addresses
B. Make troll posts to a bunch of other groups and have them X-posted
back here.
C. I could post as *@*.* an address full of wild cards in which case,
killfiling me would also killfile just about everyone else.
and a couple other things which I haven't showed you guys yet.
/\/\ e o \/\/
--
MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW-MEOW
TailDale - Member GOLI
Gods of Laming and Intelligence
Winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor for Trolls
Chris Lawrence
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>> These were all xposted to alt.flame.* and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
>> day. I am not exaggerating.
>You are.
Have another coin.
> But as I recall, you were one of those demon.local regulars who
>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
>and threatening people's accounts over it.
Your recollection is faulty. I have not spammed and you will not be
able to demonstrate where I have done. As for accounts, I have had a
small number of accounts closed down due to abuse.
> Also, I recall that a demon
>UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded alt.flame and the nose with
>40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and uncalled for flooding.
That does sound most abusive. I hope you complained to ab...@demon.net.
>You may, of course, continue to make up whatever facts you find amusing ...
Very nice. Would you like to concentrate on the subject matter now,
please?
>> In that case I would have said "half the people on Usenet I don't like".
>> As it is, I said "meower", a "meower" being someone who uses the word
>> "meow" and xposts to the meow home groups.
>
>Then you grossly exaggerated the problem.
Well, you stick with that then.
>> I _am_ interested in the fact that these people post their abuse through
>> Altopia and that Altopia ignores complaints of that abuse, even when the
>> president of Altopia has said (effectively lied) that he will take
>> action against any of the types of abuse he mentions. Such abuse has
>> been reported and goes unanswered. I see that I am not alone in this
>> experience.
>
>You aren't.
Because of this...:
> We complained about one of demon's customers last Feb when
>he was distributing the HipCrime like javabot he was using to flood alt.flame
>with on a demon page. It took a month for anything to be done about it. He's
>still got an account there, and last weekend he used it to bot flood alt.flame
>with 200-300 "Baby Bladeface" posts.
?...Again, very nice. Not related to my concern over Altopia's lax
rule-enforcement though.
>Perhaps a UDP of demon would be appropriate, too.
You'll just have to follow your instincts.
--
Chris Lawrence
Craig Sherwood
>> Dave Williams <da...@demon.net> wrote:
>> -
>> -Then again, I also have better than 200,000 customers to take into
>> -account, as well as those currently being affected by Altopia-spew.
>> -At that point, the decision to alias out any site isn't nearly as
>> -cut'n dried as would be ideal.
>>
>> Any information on Mr. Williams porn feed would be very
>> much appreciate--names of groups carried, etc.
>
>I'd be more than happy to email you a copy of demon's active file, if you
>really want it.
>
>I thought I'd ask first, though. I wouldn't want you to think I was
>mailbombing you.
Don't worry about it; Stephe just hits <Delete>. He loves email.
>Out of curiosity, why are you interested ? Can't you get enough porn from
>altopia ?
Stephe wants to "Discuss You On A List" and/or "Deal With You
Offline".
Be afraid; be very afraid.
--
Read the Kook Kabal's agenda to destroy Usenet
Watch John Goober try to install new software
http://www2.cybernex.net/~charliec/kooklist.zip
acs (at) inetrex.com [Craig Sherwood from Toronto, Canada]
Doom
>>messing with, these clowns are making 50 to 100
>
>are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
newsgroups is a myth.
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"Dog eat dog, every day, on our fellow men we prey" Offspring
Doom
>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
[...]
>> A small group of Usenet vandals, called the 'meowers', have been engaged
>> in the following operations over the last several months:
>>
>> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
>> o News article forgery
>> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
>>
>more of the abuses you list above.
Well well. Egan stoops to blatant lies to try and make his point.
It's time for you to post some proof for all four charges.
C'mon Egan, lets see your hand...
Sam
In article <6sn61e$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
"Jim Thompson" <viki...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> Heres a sample, sorry but you guys seem like the experts.
>
> JT
>
> *****************************************
>
> Path:
> wn8!attworldnet!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci
> .com!205.219.162.3!news.javanet.com!not-for-mail
This post does appear to come from javanet.com
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William A. Levinson
Clueless Wombat Cabal wrote:
> Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <Sx9hveAC...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > I'm going to keep this short. This newsgroup is in no state to make
> > structured threads possible, so I'm starting this in a new thread. It's
> > not an ideal way to do it - apologies.
> >
> > There are many people who use Altopia purely for Usenet abuse purposes;
> > they do so because Altopia has such lax, lightly enforced rules and
> > because they provide an untraceable NNTP connection to Usenet. It is
> > thus very easy for someone to abuse Usenet via Altopia, remain anonymous
> > and have little chance of any comebacks.
> >
> > A small group of Usenet vandals, called the 'meowers', have been engaged
> > in the following operations over the last several months:
> >
> > o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
> > o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
> > o News article forgery
> > o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
> >
> Actually, it's Skippy and various members of the HFW who have been doing
> more of the abuses you list above. Their participation and tactics are
> much more extreme than anything the meowers have done; in fact, I'm beginning
> to wonder if they're doing it to fool people like you into thinking "it's
> those damn meowers again".
>
> It isn't meowers that are attempting to trash alt.life.sucks and alt.animals.
> dolphins. It isn't meowers that have gone around trying to inspire over
> a hundred different newsgroups to go to war with alt.life.sucks. I'm not
> going to argue that meowers are 100% innocent in the things you name, but
> the current controversy is due to the personal vendetta that Skippy and
> the HFW are conducting against alt.life.sucks and other groups. While
> meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're messing with,
> these clowns are making 50 to 100 or more, and constantly morphing to
> make it impossible for people to killfile them with most of the newsreader
> programs out there.
I've been following Skippy & Krew's Net vandalism, and I agree with this assessment.
As a matter of fact, Skippy posted an open threat to do the above: see
http://people.delphi.com/wlevinson/skippy.html
--
William A. Levinson http://www.ganesha.org/ptb/delenda.html Spam (non-Hormel)
Delenda Est
Please direct mail to my Netcom address: wlevinso@ CONNECT PARTS TO REPLY
ix.netcom.com
Joshua Kramer
<viki...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Joshua Kramer wrote in message ...
> >In article <6smpvd$5kl$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, viki...@my-dejanews.com
> wrote:
> >
> >> Excuse me, I'm new here, but the word 'meow' caught my eye. A group of
> >> meowers has been harrassing folks in fan groups xposting into alt.hahaha
> >> driving the regulars out. At first it's the same old troll shit, then it
> >> gets personal.
> >
> >killfile entry should read
> >
> >"Kill if Newsgroups contains alt.hahaha"
> >
> >There. Damn, life is so easy.
>
> Not so fast. Alt.hahaha is one of the groups I want to read. Most of the
> regulars are webtvers with no killfile. I really don't care if this guy
> keeps his nose in Karl Malden's.
Fine, then make the damn entry "Kill if Newsgroups contains alt.fan.*"
If you use web-tv to read news, find "www.dejanews.com" and use it. It
is possible to use the dejafilters to avoid posts from targets.
Even better, buy a damn computer. Usenet is not a toy, and webtv is.
> I just don't want him in my face or that
> of my friends. It started with xposting to fan groups that such and such
> sucks. Before long it came down to calling women whores and other crap.
Have you considered "Ignoring" them?
> He/it followed them into other groups like some kind of stalker makeing
> demands like "I'll leave you alone if so and so doesn't post here. He was
> repeatedly reported to no avail.
>
> I'm all for free speech but come on this is slander.
No, it's not. Slander must be spoken. It might be libel, but you've suffered
no damages, and I don't think you have the resources to deal. In any case,
it is a commonly held opinion that abuse *on* the net is not on topic
here, only abuse *of* the net.
MoE
>
> Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <VQKwXzAd...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> > In article <6smsnc$ck8$1...@leol.net-link.net>, Clueless Wombat Cabal
> > <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
> >
> >>> These were all xposted to alt.flame.* and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
> >>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
> >>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
> >>> day. I am not exaggerating.
> >
> >>You are.
> >
> > Have another coin.
> >
> >> But as I recall, you were one of those demon.local regulars who
> >>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
> >>and threatening people's accounts over it.
> >
> > Your recollection is faulty. I have not spammed and you will not be
> > able to demonstrate where I have done. As for accounts, I have had a
> > small number of accounts closed down due to abuse.
> >
> >> Also, I recall that a demon
> >>UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded alt.flame and the nose with
> >>40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and uncalled for flooding.
> >
> > That does sound most abusive. I hope you complained to ab...@demon.net.
> >
> >>You may, of course, continue to make up whatever facts you find amusing ...
> >
> > Very nice. Would you like to concentrate on the subject matter now,
> > please?
> >
> whining over demon.local and your failure to enforce your ridiculous
> sig rule.
Never mind their posting of cancellable spamm (including Chris
Lawrence) to enforce their pathetic sig rule.
A demon.net spammer whining about abuse is something I find very
amusing.
> The lack of a real rebuttal is noticed.
>
> ("If it doesn't happen to demon.local I couldn't care less" snipped)
>
> --
> "Don't you see the peril of stalking a cat?" - Horace, sort of.
> Is minic a ghearr teanga duine a scornach
> mhm 20x10
> wombats r us
--
http://members.tripod.com/~flamingMoE
"It amuses me that Human Leech David Kendrick are now
playing ring-around-the-rosy defending one another."-Biil Palmjob
forgetting how to count in <6skm3b$2...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Jim Thompson
JT
Chris Lawrence
0...@dpinc.ml.org> writes
>>Maybe Chris would like to list the types of abuse he will action and
>>also define that abuse?
>
>Maybe pigs will fly too. It's not going to happen.
He made a start in the article ID of his I quoted. It would be nice to
think he cared enough to be honest about it.
>>>Your best course of action is to take all the evidence, and ask your
>>>provider to alias out news.alt.net
>>
>>I'd rather they didn't.
>
>Why not? Do you see anything of value, coming from there?
No, to be honest. Just spew and spam.
>So, get rid of them. Drop their posts. Block their E-mail. Refuse to
>serve them your web pages. One thing about the Internet, is that it's
>quite easy to pretend that someone doesn't exist.
But not so easy to determine who you're pretending on behalf of. I'm on
a dial-up - if I had a permanent mark online I would implement all of
the above and more, personally. I'm not keen on Demon making such 'far-
reaching' decisions for me - but UDP sounds no different, really.
>>I wish to tackle the abuse issues which are being raised rather than
>>hide from them.
>
>You will be wasting your time. Take it from someone who's been familiar
>with these so-called "abuse issues" for several years now. Caputo is a
I can but say that I tried and did my part. I'm not interested in petty
bickering (but fully expected it), I'm here to assist as I can with some
co-ordinated action. What needs to be done to UDP Altopia? How do we
go about putting them in a black hole ("we" being people who are sick of
the unchecked abuse which streams daily from Altopia).
>Repeat after me: Caputo does not care. He believes that abuse is just a
>form of free speech. I think that you may not be familiar with certain
>class of American population which hold certain whacky ideas. Caputo is
>just a sample representative of the old-time hippies, back from the '60s,
[...]
Sounds quite believable, actually.
--
Chris Lawrence
Clueless Wombat Cabal
do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> [...]
>>> in the following operations over the last several months:
>>>
>>> o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
>>> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
>>> o News article forgery
>>> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
>>>
>>Actually, it's Skippy and various members of the HFW who have been doing
>>more of the abuses you list above.
>
> It's time for you to post some proof for all four charges.
> C'mon Egan, lets see your hand...
>
Answer that, if you can.
And try not to cut things out that change the meanings of people's words.
This isn't alt.flame.
Clueless Wombat Cabal
do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>>>messing with, these clowns are making 50 to 100
>>
>>are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
>
> You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
> him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
> himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
> newsgroups is a myth.
>
you doing in there, Doom? Trying to do to them what you've done to alt.life.
sucks?)
Clueless Wombat Cabal
Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
>>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
>>> day. I am not exaggerating.
>
>>You are.
>
> Have another coin.
>
>> But as I recall, you were one of those demon.local regulars who
>>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
>>and threatening people's accounts over it.
>
> Your recollection is faulty. I have not spammed and you will not be
> able to demonstrate where I have done. As for accounts, I have had a
> small number of accounts closed down due to abuse.
>
>> Also, I recall that a demon
>>UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded alt.flame and the nose with
>>40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and uncalled for flooding.
>
> That does sound most abusive. I hope you complained to ab...@demon.net.
>
>>You may, of course, continue to make up whatever facts you find amusing ...
>
> Very nice. Would you like to concentrate on the subject matter now,
> please?
>
The subject matter is newsgroup flooding in general, not your personal
whining over demon.local and your failure to enforce your ridiculous
sig rule.
The lack of a real rebuttal is noticed.
("If it doesn't happen to demon.local I couldn't care less" snipped)
--
Leonid I. Brezhnev
>
> Pete <{Pete}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
> >
> >>messing with, these clowns are making 50 to 100
> >
> >I wish you had your facts right - the meowers make *hundreds* of posts -
> >are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
>
> You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
> him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
> himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
> newsgroups is a myth.
PKB, Skippy.
Sam
In article <bzmDfABv...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>So, get rid of them. Drop their posts. Block their E-mail. Refuse to
>>serve them your web pages. One thing about the Internet, is that it's
>>quite easy to pretend that someone doesn't exist.
>
>But not so easy to determine who you're pretending on behalf of. I'm on
>a dial-up - if I had a permanent mark online I would implement all of
>the above and more, personally. I'm not keen on Demon making such 'far-
You can still do quite a bit, even if with a dialup. Filter out all their
E-mail, use a little creative filtering to drop all their Usenet posts on
the floor. You will probably still have to download them, but you won't
waste your time reading the headers, just to realize that it's unwanted
trash.
>I can but say that I tried and did my part. I'm not interested in petty
>bickering (but fully expected it), I'm here to assist as I can with some
>co-ordinated action. What needs to be done to UDP Altopia? How do we
>go about putting them in a black hole ("we" being people who are sick of
>the unchecked abuse which streams daily from Altopia).
An active traditional UDP is not going to happen. The "eligibility"
requirements for an active UDP are very well defined, and Caputo is doing
just enough to avoid an active UDP.
There are several courses of actions. One, is to open a dialogue with
your news guy. This is not going to happen overnight, but talk to him,
and start pressuring him to alias out Altopia. Have the "we" talk to him
too, and start mounting the pressure to alias Altopia out.
If the number of "we"s is sufficiently large, and one or two members have
a server that is not doing anything usefull, perhaps the server can be
used to set up a partial newsfeed - just the hierarchies that the "we"
read, with Altopia aliased out, of course.
That's just a couple of ideas.
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Pete
>Excuse me, I'm new here, but the word 'meow' caught my eye. A group of
>meowers has been harrassing folks in fan groups xposting into alt.hahaha
>driving the regulars out. At first it's the same old troll shit, then it
>gets personal.
>
>it possible that his posts are actually coming from Altpia? Not hotmail,
>Please tell me I'm wrong. Then tell me how.
>
You are half wrong. Altopia is to blame, so you are correct there.
The incorrect bit is that it *is* possible to stop it.
UDP Altopia.
(You can minimise the effect of the meowers, who I guess are 14 year-
olds using Daddie's 'puter (they have a mental age of the average seven
year-old), by judicious use of a kill file - if you haven't got one
you're stuck.)
--
Pete
Lee Jackson Beauregard
bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
Actually I don't think I did, at least not in NANAU.
The "Baby Bladeface" posts lie within a gray area IMHO; the content is
technically on topic, and varies somewhat. OTOH it can be argued that all
the bot-spews are "substantively identical" and hence BI=20 spam; and those
who consider the appropriation of a screen-name to be forgery will also be
very interested in this twit. I have a cancelbot, but I'm very circumspect
about using it in the flame groups lest I legitimize cancelbots as a flame
tactic.
The bot is also trivial to killfile, if your newsreader can killfile on the
message ID. Anything ending in ".c1ed...@news.demon.co.uk>" is from "Baby
Bladeface."
Finally, two wrongs do not make a right. If Altopia is due for a UDP, then
it's due for a UDP whether or not Demon is due for a UDP.
- --
-----------============<[ Lee Jackson Beauregard ]>============-----------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Stephen Boursy is a Yankee. YOU figure out my email address.
Delenda est Windoze!
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Lee Jackson Beauregard
One newsgroup deboursyed.
bou...@alt.net (Speedbump) wrote:
>Dave Williams <da...@demon.net> wrote:
> -
> -Then again, I also have better than 200,000 customers to take into
> -account, as well as those currently being affected by Altopia-spew.
> -At that point, the decision to alias out any site isn't nearly as
> -cut'n dried as would be ideal.
>
> Any information on Mr. Williams porn feed would be very
>much appreciate--names of groups carried, etc.
<gilbert-t-sullivan>
Irrelevant/inapplicable; fallacious regardless.
</gilbert-t-sullivan>
> Speedbump
> news.admin.spam.spam.spam.spam.lovely.spam.wonderful.spam
- --
-----------============<[ Lee Jackson Beauregard ]>============-----------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Stephen Boursy is a Yankee. YOU figure out my email address.
Delenda est Windoze!
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ISP_Ratings
-
-ISP_Ratings <bou...@alt.net> wrote:
-
-> Dave Williams <da...@demon.net> wrote:
-> -
-> -Then again, I also have better than 200,000 customers to take into
-> -At that point, the decision to alias out any site isn't nearly as
-> -cut'n dried as would be ideal.
->
-> Any information on Mr. Williams porn feed would be very
-> much appreciate--names of groups carried, etc.
-
-I'd be more than happy to email you a copy of demon's active file, if
-you really want it.
Yes--thank you very much.
-
-I thought I'd ask first, though. I wouldn't want you to think I was
-mailbombing you.
It's fine--just one copy though :>.
-
-Out of curiosity, why are you interested ?
Well if the asswipe wants to filter his feed he becomes
responsible for all of the remaining content and it would
be only fair and just to notify the proper authorities of
what he's personally approved as acceptable.
-Can't you get enough porn from altopia ?
Never look at porn on Altopia although they carry the porn groups.
I'll occassionaly glance at Earthlink but in general if I want to look
at porn I use AOL since their newsreader isn't good for much
else.
Altopia has different types of accounts--it's cheaper if you don't
get the porn and warez which makes a lot of sense.
Steve
news.admin.censorship
Otmar Lendl
>
>That would be me, then. I've very, very strongly considered aliasing
>out Altopia. For me, that kind of action is absolutely one of last
>resort - and since traffic from peers that's passed through altopia
>receives exactly the same path-stamp as stuff posted by their
>customers, it's a step I'd be reluctant to take.
Yes, their role as transit bothers me too.
On the other hand, if more sites alias news.alt.net, Altopia
will not longer be important as a transit site.
/ol
--
/ Otmar Lendl (O.L...@Austria.EU.net) | Phone: +43 1 89933-0 (-533 fax) \
\ EUnet tech staff | Diefenbachgasse 35 A-1150 Wien /
Clueless Wombat Cabal
Lee Jackson Beauregard <johnn...@southland.smart.net.YANKEE.GO.HOME> writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>
>>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <87emtsr...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk>,
>> Andrew Gierth <and...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>> If you mention in nanau that a flood is happening, then it can be
>>> dealt with. Since I don't carry alt.flame on my own box, I won't notice
>>> any floods unless either the bot picks them up or they show up on the
>>> posting summaries.
>>>
>>I think Lee (R. Chason) did mention it ..
>>FyRE tends to post on weekends so it wouldn't surprise me if the bot returned
>>on Friday night.
>
> Actually I don't think I did, at least not in NANAU.
>
> The "Baby Bladeface" posts lie within a gray area IMHO; the content is
> technically on topic, and varies somewhat. OTOH it can be argued that all
> the bot-spews are "substantively identical" and hence BI=20 spam; and those
> who consider the appropriation of a screen-name to be forgery will also be
> very interested in this twit. I have a cancelbot, but I'm very circumspect
> about using it in the flame groups lest I legitimize cancelbots as a flame
> tactic.
If there weren't so many of them, it wouldn't be an issue. Hundreds of posts
over a weekend are too many.
>
> The bot is also trivial to killfile, if your newsreader can killfile on the
> message ID. Anything ending in ".c1ed...@news.demon.co.uk>" is from "Baby
> Bladeface."
>
> Finally, two wrongs do not make a right. If Altopia is due for a UDP, then
> it's due for a UDP whether or not Demon is due for a UDP.
On the other hand, if Altopia is to be UDP'd for what their customers have
been doing, than I think it's only fair to examine demon's attitude towards
what their customers have done. FyRE still has an account there. I find
that disturbing.
Also I haven't called for a UDP for anyone. I do think that the issue of
newsgroup flooding needs to be looked at seriously. It almost seems as if
alt.religion.scientology is the one ng people will deal with this issue on;
why aren't similar actions in other ngs acted upon? When a ng that gets
30 to 40 posts a days shoots up to over 200, all because of 3 or 4 morons,
that's a flood.
Seriously, I think some kind of standards like the BI>20 standard for spam
need to be established on this, and so far, to my knowledge, they haven't
been.
Dave Williams
: You're too dumb to be 'pondering' Williams.
Gee. I've been insulted by da 'Bump. I'm not worthy, Steve. Really.
[Followups set]
D.
--
Dave Williams
da...@demon.net
Dave Williams
: I'd be more than happy to email you a copy of demon's active file, if you
: really want it.
ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/news/active[.(Z,dis,gz,zip)]
Chris Lawrence
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>> Very nice. Would you like to concentrate on the subject matter now,
>> please?
>>
>The subject matter is newsgroup flooding in general, not your personal
>whining over demon.local and your failure to enforce your ridiculous
>sig rule.
Read article <Sx9hveAC...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>. And again.
You will find that that article contains the subject matter and it does
not include demon.local. The Subject: header also provides a clue.
I'm here for rational discussion, with like-minded (open-minded) people,
concerning UDP for alt.net. I am not here to play games with you and
your ilk. You will be killfiled by me from now on, so feel free to beat
your chest as it pleases you.
>The lack of a real rebuttal is noticed.
>("If it doesn't happen to demon.local I couldn't care less" snipped)
Jolly good.
--
Chris Lawrence
Jim Thompson
Libel, slander, whatever I'm no lawyer. And I don't want to step on any
toes, I'm sorry if I did. Since this is off topic perhaps you could suggest
a differant group for me to read in the future.
In some ways though I feel that abusing people on the net *is* abuse of the
net. I don't mean the flamers who bash each other for fun or a heated
argument over politics. I mean this stalking, ng busting behavior displayed
in many ngs these days.
I do appreciate your advice, much of it has been tried and I've seen it work
in the past, but this time, sheesh.
Thanks
Jim
Kyzer
:>
:>>While meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're
:>
:>I wish you had your facts right - the meowers make *hundreds* of posts -
:>are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
: You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
: him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
: himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
: newsgroups is a myth.
You're missing the point again, Doom. Certain meowers post randomly
to as many groups as possible, and some target particular groups to
incite the carefree meowers to post there.
He _condones_ it, he doesn't _perform_ it. Understand?
[alt.fan.karl-malden.nose added]
--
Stuart Kyzer Caie - ky...@4u.net
Erm...
That's it.
Doom
>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
>> day. I am not exaggerating.
>
>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
>and threatening people's accounts over it.
So you decided to teach them a lesson. eh?
>Also, I recall that a demon UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded
>alt.flame and the nose with 40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and
>uncalled for flooding.
This is hilarious. Egan is trying to justify the flooding of
demon.local because FyRE post bombed alt.flame.
If memory serves, FyRE was using netcom.com.uk to run his bot.
I guess the next "campaign" will be run in netcom.general.
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"I have dodged questions, and posted reams of non-sequiturs"
admits Egan in <6lh15j$jkm$1...@leol.net-link.net>
Doom
>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
[...]
>> please?
>>
>The subject matter is newsgroup flooding in general, not your personal
>whining over demon.local and your failure to enforce your ridiculous
>sig rule.
Yet again does Egan try to justify the flooding in demon.local...
Doom
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> [...]
>>>> in the following operations over the last several months:
>>>>
>>>> o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
>>>> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
>>>> o News article forgery
>>>> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
>>>
>>>Actually, it's Skippy and various members of the HFW who have been doing
>>>more of the abuses you list above.
>>
>> Well well. Egan stoops to blatant lies to try and make his point.
>> It's time for you to post some proof for all four charges.
>> C'mon Egan, lets see your hand...
>
>One look at alt.life.sucks is enough to show who's trying to destroy newsgroups.
>Answer that, if you can.
I've had a look in alt.life.sucks, and I can't find one single
instance of any the four abuses mentioned by Chris Lawrence.
You've stated above that we're committing net abuse in alt.life.socks,
but you can't back this up with any proof. Don't tell me you don't
have any?
>And try not to cut things out that change the meanings of people's words.
>This isn't alt.flame.
Why would I want to cut anything? You're the one who writes lies and
tries to finger Hell Flame Wars for net abuse.
Doom
>>>Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>>>
>>>>While meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're
>>>>messing with, these clowns are making 50 to 100
>>>
>>>I wish you had your facts right - the meowers make *hundreds* of posts -
>>>are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
>>
>> You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
>> him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
>> himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
>> newsgroups is a myth.
>
You're a meower. Meowers invade newsgroups.
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"I have dodged questions, and posted reams of non-sequiturs"
admits Egan in <6lh15j$jkm$1...@leol.net-link.net>
[...]
Chris Lawrence
would this be co-ordinated in a sensible way? Denial-of-service header
attacks and newsgroup flooding, both things which Chris Caputo says he
would take action on, continue to come via alt.net.
[original group restored]
--
Chris Lawrence
Perhaps we should just leave nature alone
to its simple, one-assed, schematics.
William A. Levinson
Cronus60, his address is being misused. If Cronus60 is registered under William A.
Levinson, it is fraudulent; I am William A. Levinson.
Path:
ix.netcom.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.alt.net!usenet
From: cron...@hotmail.com (William A.
Levinson)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
Subject: Re: --- Regarding Chris Caputo and
Altopia ---
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 14:10:24 GMT
Organization: Wombat Is A Pussy
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <35fa4200...@news.alt.net>
Reply-To: cron...@hotmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-No-Archive: yes
Xref: ix.netcom.com
news.admin.net-abuse.usenet:157735
William A. Levinson wrote:
> On 4 Sep 1998 00:41:43 GMT, bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>
> >Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <VQKwXzAd...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>,
> > Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >> In article <6smsnc$ck8$1...@leol.net-link.net>, Clueless Wombat Cabal
> >> <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
> >>
> >>>> These were all xposted to alt.flame.* and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
> >>>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
> >>>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
> >>>> day. I am not exaggerating.
> >>
> >>>You are.
> >>
> >> Have another coin.
> >>
> >>> But as I recall, you were one of those demon.local regulars who
> >>>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
> >>>and threatening people's accounts over it.
> >>
> >> Your recollection is faulty. I have not spammed and you will not be
> >> able to demonstrate where I have done. As for accounts, I have had a
> >> small number of accounts closed down due to abuse.
> >>
> >>> Also, I recall that a demon
> >>>UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded alt.flame and the nose with
> >>>40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and uncalled for flooding.
> >>
> >> That does sound most abusive. I hope you complained to ab...@demon.net.
> >>
> >>>You may, of course, continue to make up whatever facts you find amusing ...
> >>
> >> Very nice. Would you like to concentrate on the subject matter now,
> >> please?
> >>
> >The subject matter is newsgroup flooding in general, not your personal
> >whining over demon.local and your failure to enforce your ridiculous
> >sig rule.
> >
> >The lack of a real rebuttal is noticed.
> >
> IOW...Egan will discuss abuse, except of course the many glaring examples
> of his own.
--
William A. Levinson http://www.ganesha.org/ptb/delenda.html Spam (non-Hormel) Delenda
Est
Please direct mail to my Netcom address: wlevinso@ CONNECT PARTS TO REPLY
ix.netcom.com
B.E.N.
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>The subject matter is newsgroup flooding in general,
Erm, no, the subject matter is "--- Regarding Chris Caputo and Altopia -
--". Do pay attention.
--
Ben
B.E.N.
>A demon.net spammer whining about abuse is something I find very
>amusing.
I wonder why? No, don't tell me...
--
Ben
B.E.N.
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>One look at alt.life.sucks is enough to show who's trying to destroy newsgroups.
>Answer that, if you can.
The *real* common denominator is that the destructive behaviour mostly
emanates from alt.net (so far as we can tell), *that* is the issue under
discussion.
--
Ben
B.E.N.
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>While
>meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're messing with,
ROFL! The me*wers were making hundreds per day at their peak, 10
megabytes in a week.
--
Ben
B.E.N.
0...@dpinc.ml.org> writes
>Tell that to your news guy. An active UDP of Altopia is out of the
>question, given the current religious beliefs of some people. However, if
>you make a good enough case to your news guy, he'll simply alias out
>news.alt.net, and you won't have to deal with this crap any more.
I can assure you that the powers that be at Demon are well aware of the
possibilities, and their implications. I am also (fairly) sure that many
minds are actively engaged in trying to find a better solution than
simply aliasing out alt.net
--
Ben
B.E.N.
<bou...@alt.net> writes
> Well if the asswipe wants to filter his feed he becomes
>responsible for all of the remaining content and it would
>be only fair and just to notify the proper authorities of
>what he's personally approved as acceptable.
Not accepting traffic from alt.net says *nothing* about content
whatsoever.
--
Ben
B.E.N.
writes
>Excuse me, I'm new here, but the word 'meow' caught my eye. A group of
>meowers has been harrassing folks in fan groups xposting into alt.hahaha
>driving the regulars out. At first it's the same old troll shit, then it
>gets personal.
>
>One in particular bounces from ISP to ISP. If this Altopia is what you say, is
>it possible that his posts are actually coming from Altpia? Not hotmail,
>javanet etc. It's become ridiculous, and there seems to be no way to stop it.
>Please tell me I'm wrong. Then tell me how.
The best way to deal with meowers is to killfile on crossposts. That way
you don't have to read their posts. My advice to you is to try to make
sure that as many "regulars" as possible are using the same killrules,
and then determinedly carry on as normal. That won't stop them
crossposting, because they just add the name of "your" group to their
crosspost lists, they don't really care, but it will help to keep your
newsgroup alive.
--
Ben
B.E.N.
j...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>Not so fast. Alt.hahaha is one of the groups I want to read. Most of the
>regulars are webtvers with no killfile. I really don't care if this guy
>keeps his nose in Karl Malden's. I just don't want him in my face or that
>of my friends. It started with xposting to fan groups that such and such
>sucks. Before long it came down to calling women whores and other crap.
>He/it followed them into other groups like some kind of stalker makeing
>demands like "I'll leave you alone if so and so doesn't post here. He was
>repeatedly reported to no avail.
>
>I'm all for free speech but come on this is slander.
I'm afraid that on Usenet, people can more or less say what they want.
If you can't killfile, then you have my sympathies: aggressive
crossposting is a menace. Probably you will find, by reading headers,
that most of the vandals have "alt.net" in their "Path:" line, which is
what a lot of the discussion here is all about.
--
Ben
B.E.N.
j...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>Libel, slander, whatever I'm no lawyer. And I don't want to step on any
>toes, I'm sorry if I did. Since this is off topic perhaps you could suggest
>a differant group for me to read in the future.
The sort of behaviour you are describing is on-topic here.
>In some ways though I feel that abusing people on the net *is* abuse of the
>net.
Not quite.
> I don't mean the flamers who bash each other for fun or a heated
>argument over politics. I mean this stalking, ng busting behavior displayed
>in many ngs these days.
That is true.
>I do appreciate your advice, much of it has been tried and I've seen it work
>in the past, but this time, sheesh.
You are not alone.
--
Ben
KO Silly Manure Box
bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) clambered out of his cot and squealed:
>> In demon.local Doom <do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org> wrote:
>>: Pete <{Pete}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>:>Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>>:>
>>:>>While meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're
>>:>>messing with, these clowns are making 50 to 100
>>:>
>>:>I wish you had your facts right - the meowers make *hundreds* of posts -
>>:>are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
>>
>>: You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
>>: him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
>>: himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
>>: newsgroups is a myth.
>>
>> You're missing the point again, Doom. Certain meowers post randomly
>> to as many groups as possible, and some target particular groups to
>> incite the carefree meowers to post there.
>>
>> He _condones_ it, he doesn't _perform_ it. Understand?
>>
>I think 5 to 10 posts a day each is not excessive. You should see how many
>posts BDZ has been making to alt.life.sucks. I'm beginning to think
>he's got a pillow to rest his head on in between sessions.
>
Your twitching father tried to drown you when you were a baby.
>> [alt.fan.karl-malden.nose added]
>>
>
>--
>"Don't you see the peril of stalking a cat?" - Horace, sort of.
>Is minic a ghearr teanga duine a scornach
>mhm 20x10
>wombats r us
Your lard-arsed father tried to drown you when you were a baby.
HAHAHAHAHAHA, wanker - I win.
--
Meow
Clifton Royston
: Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <iOFCDRB6...@microser.demon.co.uk>,
: "B.E.N." <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes:
: > The *real* common denominator is that the destructive behaviour mostly
: One of the issues. There needs to be standards set for newsgroup floods
: and what they are. A lot of this could have been avoided if there was
: a good definition and the floods were cancelled by 3rd parties under
: definable rules.
This may be the most cogent thing said yet on this topic.
The 'net community has always "punted" on spews, with the "I know it
when I see it" approach, as for the novel attack, the dictionary spews,
etc. Can someone define a content-insensitive definition of a
newsgroup flood or a spew? (BI is inapplicable.)
And the direction to take it might be to consider Russ's "spam math" -
is there a mathematical condition that can be set for what constitutes
a newsgroup flood or a spew?
-- Clifton
--
Clifton Royston -- President, LavaNet Inc. -- clif...@lava.net
Grosvenor Center .. Makai Tower, #1590 .. 733 Bishop St. .. Honolulu HI 96813
Phone: +1 808 545-LAVA (545-5282) Auto-info email: in...@lava.net
B.E.N.
<bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <iOFCDRB6...@microser.demon.co.uk>,
> "B.E.N." <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>>>One look at alt.life.sucks is enough to show who's trying to destroy
>newsgroups.
>>>Answer that, if you can.
>>
>> emanates from alt.net (so far as we can tell), *that* is the issue under
>> discussion.
>
>One of the issues. There needs to be standards set for newsgroup floods
>and what they are. A lot of this could have been avoided if there was
>a good definition and the floods were cancelled by 3rd parties under
>definable rules.
That would indeed be a (partial) solution. What specifically do you
propose?
--
Ben
B.E.N.
<clif...@lava.net> writes>: Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <iOFCDRB6...@microser.demon.co.uk>
>,
>: "B.E.N." <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes:
>: > The *real* common denominator is that the destructive behaviour mostly
>: > emanates from alt.net (so far as we can tell), *that* is the issue under
>: > discussion.
>
>: One of the issues. There needs to be standards set for newsgroup floods
>: and what they are. A lot of this could have been avoided if there was
>: a good definition and the floods were cancelled by 3rd parties under
>: definable rules.
>
>
>The 'net community has always "punted" on spews, with the "I know it
>when I see it" approach, as for the novel attack, the dictionary spews,
>etc. Can someone define a content-insensitive definition of a
>newsgroup flood or a spew? (BI is inapplicable.)
>
>And the direction to take it might be to consider Russ's "spam math" -
>is there a mathematical condition that can be set for what constitutes
>a newsgroup flood or a spew?
As far as I am concerned, a complete ban on crossposts, planetwide,
would help a lot. Apart from removing the pestilence of aggressive
crossposting, it would also allow newsgroups to keep their focus
somewhat better.
--
Ben
brian moore
rrevved <s...@my-sig.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:44:30 +0100,
> in msg <BO8KTjBe...@microser.demon.co.uk>,
> "B.E.N." <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> said :
>
> >The best way to deal with meowers is to killfile on crossposts.
>
> WindoZe newsreader that does filtering based on crossposted articles.
> Besides, then I couldn't smack Bump.
slrn runs under Windows.
http://space.mit.edu/%7Edavis/slrn.html. Binaries are available from
http://www.vex.net/~cthuang/slrn/.
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
Chris Lawrence
<b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes
>ROFL! The me*wers were making hundreds per day at their peak, 10
>megabytes in a week.
Quite - looks like the discussions and facts of Usenet abuse via alt.net
is difficult for some people to concentrate on, preferring instead to
have a little gang shootout. If you killfile the obvious non-
contributing characters, the UDP threads are actually quite readable,
with sensible comments on both sides of the fence.
Is Chris Caputo still in here or did he just make a statement and
vanish? I put it to him that some of the things he says he'd take
action on have happened and are happening and I'd like him to clarify
his position on the matter. I'm only interested in sensible discussion.
Richard
>On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:44:30 +0100,
>in msg <BO8KTjBe...@microser.demon.co.uk>,
>"B.E.N." <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> said :
>>The best way to deal with meowers is to killfile on crossposts.
>Most of us don't have the availability to do that. AFAIK, there is no
>WindoZe newsreader that does filtering based on crossposted articles.
>Besides, then I couldn't smack Bump.
slrn runs on wintel, as does turnpike. Both will filter on anything in the
header.
--
Ax...@drk1.demon.co.uk ICQ:2526788 http://www.drk1.demon.co.uk
-----------------------Interested in fighting spam?---------------------------
AGSF mirror http://www.drk1.demon.co.uk/ags-f/ also see http://www.sputum.com
ISP_Ratings
}
}ISP_Ratings <bou...@alt.net> wrote:
}
}: You're too dumb to be 'pondering' Williams.
}
}Gee. I've been insulted by da 'Bump. I'm not worthy, Steve.
That much is true.
}Really.
I believe you.
}[Followups set]
Restored and embellished.
Steve
news.admin.censorship
}
}D.
Lee Jackson Beauregard
bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <6sntap$i...@enews4.newsguy.com>,
> Lee Jackson Beauregard <johnn...@southland.smart.net.YANKEE.GO.HOME> writes:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>
>>>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <87emtsr...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk>,
>>> Andrew Gierth <and...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>> If you mention in nanau that a flood is happening, then it can be
>>>> dealt with. Since I don't carry alt.flame on my own box, I won't notice
>>>> any floods unless either the bot picks them up or they show up on the
>>>> posting summaries.
>>>>
>>>I think Lee (R. Chason) did mention it ..
>>>FyRE tends to post on weekends so it wouldn't surprise me if the bot returned
>>>on Friday night.
>>
>> Actually I don't think I did, at least not in NANAU.
>>
>I'm not sure if you did or not ...
I did post WRT FyRE's post-bombing last February. I don't remember
reporting the "Baby Bladeface" bot in NANAU.
I think FyRE is trying to flood without being caught, rather like posting at
BI=19.5 on and on and on. This is perhaps worth discussing, although it's
debatable whether the Cabal [TINC] cares about alt.flame that much.
- --
-----------============<[ Lee Jackson Beauregard ]>============-----------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Stephen Boursy is a Yankee. YOU figure out my email address.
Delenda est Windoze!
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Fluffy
{defining floods}
> Just picking numbers out of the air, how about over 20 posts and 10% of
> the newsgroup by one poster? So 21 posts in a daily total of 200
> would be too many. Some kind of method would be necessary to determine
> morphs.
I had attempted to bring this up a while back, but it got absolutely
nowhere. Of course, the timing wasn't great, since it was a few days
before the moratorium that never was.
One part that will remain subjective is the determination of "a poster"
or even "a cooperating group of posters" who are the source of the
flood. This, of course, is at the heart of the current problem with
alt.net, but it applies equally to attacks from anon remailers, open
servers etc. I'm not sure there is a satisfactory way to define this.
Fluffy
> slrn runs on wintel, as does turnpike. Both will filter on anything in the
> header.
Doesn't Turnpike require the NEWNEWS command? If so, people can't use
it at most sites.
John F Hall
Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On the other hand, if Altopia is to be UDP'd for what their customers have
>been doing, than I think it's only fair to examine demon's attitude towards
>what their customers have done. FyRE still has an account there. I find
>that disturbing.
The complaint against Altopia is that they refuse to identify their
users' articles so they can't be filtered. Demon *do* identify the
source of every article and further every Demon account has a unique and
invariant identity. The FyRE posts will all have "X-NNTP-Posting-Host:
quick-silver.demon.co.uk:193.237.244.70", (or "X-Mail2News-Path:
news.demon.net!quick-silver.demon.co.uk" if he were to use the mail2news
gateway).
Note that any NNTP-Posting-Host header is added at
quick-silver.demon.co.uk, and so is potentially forgeable, but the
"X-" headers are added at Demon.
--
John F Hall
Pete
<b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>As far as I am concerned, a complete ban on crossposts, planetwide,
>would help a lot. Apart from removing the pestilence of aggressive
>crossposting, it would also allow newsgroups to keep their focus
>somewhat better.
Max 3, perhaps?
--
Pete
Hat Yai
> Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I think those numbers may be too low. The people arguing in the
political groups about Clinton might have a shit fit. There's also
the case of small NG's with only a few people who like to post
a lot of messages to each other. See alt.stupidity (though there
is a lot of xposting). "Dr. Jai" posts a lot to "his" newsgroup, etc.
If you add in xposting, then an article would get cancelled
if group 1's % was okay, but nobody posted to group 2 that day.
I guess you could say if one of the groups met the OK criteria,
then all of them should.
Doom
>In demon.local Doom <do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org> wrote:
>: Pete <{Pete}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>:>Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>:>
>:>>While meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're
>:>>messing with, these clowns are making 50 to 100
>:>
>:>I wish you had your facts right - the meowers make *hundreds* of posts -
>:>are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
>
>: You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
>: him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
>: himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
>: newsgroups is a myth.
>
>You're missing the point again, Doom. Certain meowers post randomly
>to as many groups as possible, and some target particular groups to
>incite the carefree meowers to post there.
>
>He _condones_ it, he doesn't _perform_ it. Understand?
Kyzer, Egan has openly stated in nanau that any form of newsgroup
flooding is abhorrent. Are we on about the same Michael Egan?
[Nose snipped, you know I don't post to that trash heap]
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass,
and I'm all out of bubblegum." - RRP
Doom
>> [...]
>>>> Very nice. Would you like to concentrate on the subject matter now,
>>>> please?
>>>>
>>>The subject matter is newsgroup flooding in general, not your personal
>>>whining over demon.local and your failure to enforce your ridiculous
>>>sig rule.
>>
>
>Says one of the current flooders of alt.life.sucks, alt.music.korn and alt.
>animals.dolphins.
I think you're mistaken, I not very active these days, not since the
UIP on Hell Flame Wars in alt.flame. Why do you think I've turned up
in nanau? I'm bored fer christsakes.
>Note well that no one's threatening MY ISP over the things that I've posted ...
Why would they? I don't remember any ISP having an AUP that included a
termination of service for poor flaming. Innovate I say!
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"I have dodged questions, and posted reams of non-sequiturs"
admits Egan in <6lh15j$jkm$1...@leol.net-link.net>
Doom
>do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org "Doom" writes:
>
>} I've had a look in alt.life.sucks, and I can't find one single
>} instance of any the four abuses mentioned by Chris Lawrence.
>} You've stated above that we're committing net abuse in alt.life.socks,
>} but you can't back this up with any proof. Don't tell me you don't
>} have any?
>
>http://w3.one.net/~nemo/HFW-Dipshits
>
>Fuckwit
Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"Dog eat dog, every day, on our fellow men we prey" Offspring
Doom
>do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>>>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>>>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> in the following operations over the last several months:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
>>>>>> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
>>>>>> o News article forgery
>>>>>> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, it's Skippy and various members of the HFW who have been doing
>>>>>more of the abuses you list above.
>>>>
>>>> Well well. Egan stoops to blatant lies to try and make his point.
>>>> It's time for you to post some proof for all four charges.
>>>> C'mon Egan, lets see your hand...
>>>
>>>One look at alt.life.sucks is enough to show who's trying to destroy newsgroups.
>>>Answer that, if you can.
>>
>> instance of any the four abuses mentioned by Chris Lawrence.
>
[Vasectomy]
I'm not asking for any.
You accused members of Hell Flame Wars of ..
1. Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
2. Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
3. News article forgery
4. Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
and thus far you have not provided any proof whatsoever.
There is only one conclusion I can draw from this. You are a LIAR.
No response or a response without any proof will be considered an
admission of guilt from you.
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"I have dodged questions, and posted reams of non-sequiturs"
admits Egan in <6lh15j$jkm$1...@leol.net-link.net>
Doom
>do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> [...]
>>>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
>>>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
>>>> day. I am not exaggerating.
>>>
>>>You are. But as I recall, you were one of those demon.local regulars who
>>>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
>>>and threatening people's accounts over it.
>>
>> So you decided to teach them a lesson. eh?
>
>This is not alt.flame. If you're going to make false accusations and lump
>me in with a bunch of others, it's your credibility and your case that will suffer.
"I wasn't really involved in the extermination of the Jews, I was only
a soldier taking orders" - Hans Schmidt, S.S.Guard.
>I was not a participant in the demon.local events. Take this up with those
>who were.
According to your partner in crime, Kyzer, you approve of the flooding
of demon.local. I guess you'll deny this too,
>>>Also, I recall that a demon UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded
>>>alt.flame and the nose with 40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and
>>>uncalled for flooding.
>>
>> This is hilarious. Egan is trying to justify the flooding of
>> demon.local because FyRE post bombed alt.flame.
>
>I am pointing out what happened. It's rather hypocritical of you to critisize
>me for pointing this out when you were going as far as trying to get FyRE's
>phone service cut off.
I never tried to. It was simply an idea I tossed into melting pot for
people to consider. I find it very disheartening that someone who
claims to be of sterling character, should use material from a private
discussion via e-mail as a pawn in a flame war. You are scum and
beneath contempt, but I'm glad you showed your true colours.
>> If memory serves, FyRE was using netcom.com.uk to run his bot.
>
>And he posted it on a demon.uk web page, where it stayed for a month before
>anything was done about it.
>And you knew this, too.
>Lying won't get you anywhere here.
What was I lying about? Point it out, word for word.
>> I guess the next "campaign" will be run in netcom.general.
>>
>No, the present "campaign" seems to be running in alt.life.sucks, alt.music.korn,
>and alt.animals.dolphins. Would you care to justify the continued post floodingof these groups?
I really couldn't care less about either groups. I've never read
alt.animals.dolphins and it's been some time since I read
alt.life.sucks.
>> -
>> DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
>>
>> Member of HELL FLAME WARS
>>
>> "I have dodged questions, and posted reams of non-sequiturs"
>> admits Egan in <6lh15j$jkm$1...@leol.net-link.net>
>>
>Again, this is not alt.flame. You're not trying to persuade people of how
>witty you are, or how well you can take quotes out of context; you're trying
>to persuade people not to UDP or alias out alt.net.
Oh look, Egan is getting upset about the sig file. The sig file is
relevant to these discussions, as you're already dodging issues and
deliberately going off at a tangent.
>Accusing me of things I didn't do, contradicting known facts and covering
>for your own participation in the Skippy/HFW floods aren't going to impress
>anyone.
Oh stop blubbering Egan. You accuse me of post-flooding without any
proof, and then I decide to do the same back. It's a tit-for-tat
retaliation. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the frying pan.
>You're better off not posting here if you can't do better.
I'll post what I want, when I want. If you don't like it, then invoke
the UIP (Usenet Ignore Policy) in nanau as well. Pussy.
Doom
>"From" forgery by an Altopia user, involving Hotmail's domain name. If there is a real
>Cronus60, his address is being misused. If Cronus60 is registered under William A.
>Levinson, it is fraudulent; I am William A. Levinson.
You get fucking worse.
It's "no" forgery, the account is registered to the person who posted
the article (Hi Chris). He can post under whatever name he/she
pleases, for the simple reason we all know your name means dick.
Will you, for once in your pitiable little life, sit down and learn
what constitutes a forgery.
-
DOOM www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~thorne
Member of HELL FLAME WARS
"Dog eat dog, every day, on our fellow men we prey" Offspring
Richard
>Richard <ax...@drk1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Doesn't Turnpike require the NEWNEWS command? If so, people can't use
>it at most sites.
I think I remember Turnpike having an option to use other than newnews for
quite a while. From V3.5 maybe?
AIR V4 is out and that supports multiple news servers. This definatly has
an alternative to NewNews.
Fluffy
> > One part that will remain subjective is the determination of "a poster"
> > or even "a cooperating group of posters" who are the source of the
> > flood. This, of course, is at the heart of the current problem with
> > alt.net, but it applies equally to attacks from anon remailers, open
> > servers etc. I'm not sure there is a satisfactory way to define this.
> >
> think that Sk@ppy, Schippy, Sk4ipp5y, etc. could be fairly defined as
> the same poster as long as all the posts were coming from the same
> ISP.
Could be, but I find Skippy and followups extremely easy to killfile.
It's not the answer to everything, but the state of popular newsreaders'
abilities really does have to move up a few notches.
Now, take another one of Altopia's problem children, FyRE. I mean, it
seems pretty obvious to us that the same entity is posting all that
garbage, but how do we determine that with confidence? The present
alt.net arrangement leaves things such that you can't be sure you're
singling out the right poster. No 'real' information needs to be given
out, a constant hash or something like that would do.
> I've heard that some ISPs take a very dim view of people morphing to
> avoid killfiles.
Yeah, but I do understand why some ISPs would be reluctant to go too
far into that. Killfile evasion isn't, after all, the only reason
people play with their headers. Skippy and FyRE (and Boursy for that
matter) are, OTOH, taking it to an extreme.
B.E.N.
<{Pete}@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
Maybe. Crossposting can be very useful, but I cannot think of any
instance where it is *necessary*.
--
Ben
Andrew Gierth
B> Maybe. Crossposting can be very useful, but I cannot think of any
B> instance where it is *necessary*.
RFDs and CFVs.
--
Andrew.
Russ Allbery
> RFDs and CFVs.
FAQs. Hierarchy pointers like that group pointer thing that I post here
weekly. Discussions that honestly do belong in more than one group (there
are a lot more of them than people seem to think). Discussions of
newsgroup reorganizations, which often are appropriate in both the group
to be reorganized and in news.groups.
There are a bunch of places where crossposting is necessary.
--
Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu) <URL:http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
B.E.N.
<and...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>>>> "B" == B E N <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> B> Maybe. Crossposting can be very useful, but I cannot think of any
> B> instance where it is *necessary*.
>
>RFDs and CFVs.
What is wrong with multiposting in those instances?
--
Ben
Russ Allbery
> Andrew Gierth <and...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>>>>> "B" == B E N <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> B> Maybe. Crossposting can be very useful, but I cannot think of any
>> B> instance where it is *necessary*.
>> RFDs and CFVs.
> What is wrong with multiposting in those instances?
Well, there's this little thing called BI.... ;) Plus, RFDs and CFVs
aren't multiposted, they're crossposted. That's the way that they always
have been handled, and I have no particular intention of changing that.
It makes it easier for the votetakers if they only have to track one CFV
that's out there, and crossposting is the responsible way of handling it.
Get your provider to filter out crossposts to too many groups that don't
set followups, and that will take care of a lot of it for you.
Russ Allbery
> Possibly true.. but absolutely no reason that I can think of where the
> number of groups already crossposted to, needs to be exponentially
> inreased in the Followup-To: line as frequently happens to this sort of
> post..
Oh, yes, definitely. I use Kai's crosspost scoring algorithm to get rid
of stuff like that and would recommend that other sites do the same thing.
> there may occasionally be cross-overs between some newsgroups, but
> that's nothing that can't be catered for by a simple cut and paste job..
Um, no. That doesn't work.
news.groups and the affected group both need to see *all* the discussion
of a reorganization. If people start multiposting, then people will
follow up only in one group or the other, and the discussion fragments.
Bad.
> And as for *necessary*.. is it really necessary, or is it simply more
> convenient.. I see no reason for crossposting if the Followup-To: is
> set to one group alone or set to poster.. multiple posting of the same
> message achieves the same effect..
No, it doesn't; look at the followup behavior.
Precisely what problem are people trying to solve here? This sounds like
a rather nasty case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Andrew Gierth
Erik> And as for *necessary*.. is it really necessary, or is it
Erik> simply more convenient..
Necessary. Multiposting (spamming!) is not a substitute for
crossposting, except in very limited circumstances.
Erik> I see no reason for crossposting if the Followup-To: is set to
Erik> one group alone or set to poster.. multiple posting of the same
Erik> message achieves the same effect..
At the expense of multiplying the resource consumption. No thanks.
--
Andrew.
BDZ
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <lqGcZIAv...@spacetime.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> In article <6sm5kk$rrk$1...@leol.net-link.net>, Clueless Wombat Cabal
>> <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>>
>>>> 5 to 10 posts per day is a gross underestimation
>>>
>>>Apiece. I just looked at demon.local on dejanews and stand by my accounting.
>>
>> Demon.local changed recently and is much quieter as a result. Before
>> that, we did indeed have 500 to 1000 posts per day. They are all on CD
>> if you are that desperate.
>>
I notice that you have nothing to say about that, Egan.
>>>> - 500 to 1000 posts per
>>>> day is nearer the mark, each several Kb long, many with headers that
>>>> long. All from the meowers, mostly via Altopia.
>>>
>>>500 to 1000 posts per day? Not even alt.flame or the Nose gets that many
>>>posts. This is a gross exaggeration.
>>
>> These were all xposted to alt.flame.* and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
>> day. I am not exaggerating.
>>
>You are. But as I recall, you were one of those demon.local regulars who
>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
>and threatening people's accounts over it. Also, I recall that a demon
>UK poster known as FyRE or LyQUID flooded alt.flame and the nose with
>40,000 posts in Feb, in an unprovoked and uncalled for flooding.
>
>You may, of course, continue to make up whatever facts you find amusing ...
>
Actually, he is slightly exaggerating on the demon.local incident, I
would estimate more along the lines of 300-500 posts per day. All
x-posted into the nose.
The attacks by Fyre were all because of the meowers again, while I do
not condone what fyre did, I do understand why he did it. You and the
others were cascading in alt.retribution, an on-topic, non-flame
newsgroup and he decided to fight back.
>>>Unless you have a very wide definition of meower that means "half the
>>>people on Usenet I don't like".
>>
>> In that case I would have said "half the people on Usenet I don't like".
>> As it is, I said "meower", a "meower" being someone who uses the word
>> "meow" and xposts to the meow home groups.
>
>Then you grossly exaggerated the problem.
>
No, he was pretty damn close to being correct.
>>>>>Please try to keep the players straight ...
>>>>
>>>> Please do not make assumptions
>>>
>>>I'm not; you are mistaken in the identity of some of the people you complain
>>>about.
>>
>> Okay. If I am then I hold my hands up. I'm not interested in arguing
>> the toss. I'm not that interested in the gang name of the 'players' -
>> they're all infantile vandals.
>>
>> I _am_ interested in the fact that these people post their abuse through
>> Altopia and that Altopia ignores complaints of that abuse, even when the
>> president of Altopia has said (effectively lied) that he will take
>> action against any of the types of abuse he mentions. Such abuse has
>> been reported and goes unanswered. I see that I am not alone in this
>> experience.
>
>You aren't. We complained about one of demon's customers last Feb when
>he was distributing the HipCrime like javabot he was using to flood alt.flame
>with on a demon page. It took a month for anything to be done about it. He's
>still got an account there, and last weekend he used it to bot flood alt.flame
>with 200-300 "Baby Bladeface" posts.
>
>Perhaps a UDP of demon would be appropriate, too.
>
Oh yeah, why not just UDP every fucking provider in the world, Mike.
I swear, you are one of the most disgusting censors I have ever come
across.
Why don't you just ignore the people who hurt your feelings and get on
with your "life".
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
Big Daddy Zeus
www.hell-flame-wars.org
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
Pete
<b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <X82RQiAd...@glost.demon.co.uk>, Pete
><{Pete}@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <Ehn7oNAw...@microser.demon.co.uk>, B.E.N.
>><b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>As far as I am concerned, a complete ban on crossposts, planetwide,
>>>would help a lot. Apart from removing the pestilence of aggressive
>>>crossposting, it would also allow newsgroups to keep their focus
>>>somewhat better.
>>
>>Max 3, perhaps?
>
Agreed, if there's anything *that* important, it would be worthwhile to
multipost, IMHO.
--
Pete
BDZ
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <6sntap$i...@enews4.newsguy.com>,
> Lee Jackson Beauregard <johnn...@southland.smart.net.YANKEE.GO.HOME> writes:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>
>>>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <87emtsr...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk>,
>>> Andrew Gierth <and...@erlenstar.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>> If you mention in nanau that a flood is happening, then it can be
>>>> dealt with. Since I don't carry alt.flame on my own box, I won't notice
>>>> any floods unless either the bot picks them up or they show up on the
>>>> posting summaries.
>>>>
>>>I think Lee (R. Chason) did mention it ..
>>>FyRE tends to post on weekends so it wouldn't surprise me if the bot returned
>>>on Friday night.
>>
>> Actually I don't think I did, at least not in NANAU.
>>
>I'm not sure if you did or not ...
>
>> The "Baby Bladeface" posts lie within a gray area IMHO; the content is
>> technically on topic, and varies somewhat. OTOH it can be argued that all
>> the bot-spews are "substantively identical" and hence BI=20 spam; and those
>> who consider the appropriation of a screen-name to be forgery will also be
>> very interested in this twit. I have a cancelbot, but I'm very circumspect
>> about using it in the flame groups lest I legitimize cancelbots as a flame
>> tactic.
>
>If there weren't so many of them, it wouldn't be an issue. Hundreds of posts
>over a weekend are too many.
>
>>
>> The bot is also trivial to killfile, if your newsreader can killfile on the
>> message ID. Anything ending in ".c1ed...@news.demon.co.uk>" is from "Baby
>> Bladeface."
>>
>> Finally, two wrongs do not make a right. If Altopia is due for a UDP, then
>> it's due for a UDP whether or not Demon is due for a UDP.
>
>On the other hand, if Altopia is to be UDP'd for what their customers have
>been doing, than I think it's only fair to examine demon's attitude towards
>what their customers have done. FyRE still has an account there. I find
>that disturbing.
>Also I haven't called for a UDP for anyone. I do think that the issue of
>newsgroup flooding needs to be looked at seriously. It almost seems as if
>alt.religion.scientology is the one ng people will deal with this issue on;
>why aren't similar actions in other ngs acted upon? When a ng that gets
>30 to 40 posts a days shoots up to over 200, all because of 3 or 4 morons,
>that's a flood.
>Seriously, I think some kind of standards like the BI>20 standard for spam
>need to be established on this, and so far, to my knowledge, they haven't
>been.
>
No, that is YOUR definition of a flood, luckily for most people, you
don't have a say in any operations of any service provider.
BDZ
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <35f8e47c...@hell-flame-wars.org>,
> do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> [...]
>>>> A small group of Usenet vandals, called the 'meowers', have been engaged
>>>> in the following operations over the last several months:
>>>>
>>>> o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
>>>> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
>>>> o News article forgery
>>>> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
>>>>
>>>Actually, it's Skippy and various members of the HFW who have been doing
>>>more of the abuses you list above.
>>
>> Well well. Egan stoops to blatant lies to try and make his point.
>> It's time for you to post some proof for all four charges.
>> C'mon Egan, lets see your hand...
>>
>One look at alt.life.sucks is enough to show who's trying to destroy newsgroups.
>Answer that, if you can.
>
Trying to? Heh...
Don't play holier than thou, I have already shown all the newsgroups
you have disrupted.
>And try not to cut things out that change the meanings of people's words.
>This isn't alt.flame.
>
Isn' what that what you did in the following post?
Hypocrite.
Path:
news.alt.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.217.6.4!nntp.net-link.net!not-for-mail
From: bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,alt.fan.hell-flame-wars
Subject: Re: RFD: Phase1 UDP of Altopia
Date: 3 Sep 1998 20:09:28 GMT
Organization: Holy Fluffy Wombats
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <6smt1o$ck8$2...@leol.net-link.net>
References: <35E9BF97...@poruno.buto.kogyo.com>
<m3ogt1s...@windlord.Stanford.EDU>
<199808312256...@dpinc.ml.org>
<6sh7sf$pi7$0...@207.14.113.2>
<1998090121401...@dpinc.ml.org>
<35f2ac00...@hell-flame-wars.org>
Reply-To: bspag...@hotmail.com
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alt.fan.hell-flame-wars:18446
Fumbling with his secret decoder ring,
<35f2ac00...@hell-flame-wars.org>,
do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
> Sam <sam...@dpinc.ml.org> wrote:
>>Chris Caputo <cca...@tofu.alt.net> wrote:
> [...]
>>>This highlights the nature of your personal vendetta against Altopia, thus
>>>disqualifying you from being unbiased in judgements about is.
>>
>>I see that calling a spade "a spade" is now considered to be a "personal
>>vendetta" of some sorts. The statement happens to be true, whether you
>>like it, or not, and here we see perfectly clear the cocoon that Chris
>>Caputo has spun for himself. He is staunchly maintaining that he takes
>>action and actively investigates any complaints reported to him.
>
> As a person who has had a warning from Mr.Caputo,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Did you wet your pants when he did it, little boy?
--
"Don't you see the peril of stalking a cat?" - Horace, sort of.
Is minic a ghearr teanga duine a scornach
mhm 20x10
wombats r us
BDZ
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <6spi50$g7b$1...@info.abdn.ac.uk>,
> Kyzer <ky...@4u.net.or.hotmail.com> writes:
>> In demon.local Doom <do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org> wrote:
>>: Pete <{Pete}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>:>Clueless Wombat Cabal <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>>:>
>>:>>While meowers might make 5 to 10 posts a day to a newsgroup they're
>>:>>messing with, these clowns are making 50 to 100
>>:>
>>:>I wish you had your facts right - the meowers make *hundreds* of posts -
>>:>are you one of them trying to throw others off the scent, by any chance?
>>
>>: You hit the nail right on the head. He's one of 'em, but if you ask
>>: him about his activities elsewhere, he'll claim he doesn't involve
>>: himself in any those activities. A meower that doesn't invade
>>: newsgroups is a myth.
>>
>> You're missing the point again, Doom. Certain meowers post randomly
>> to as many groups as possible, and some target particular groups to
>> incite the carefree meowers to post there.
>>
>> He _condones_ it, he doesn't _perform_ it. Understand?
>>
>I think 5 to 10 posts a day each is not excessive. You should see how many
>posts BDZ has been making to alt.life.sucks. I'm beginning to think
>he's got a pillow to rest his head on in between sessions.
>
I have a lot to say, is that wrong?
I suppose to a censor, like yourself, then that would be a crime.
BDZ
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <35f4342a...@hell-flame-wars.org>,
> do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> [...]
>>>> These were all xposted to alt.flame.* and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
>>>> alt.depressed.as.fuck and other such groups. d.l caught the flak from
>>>> all these groups with hundreds of huge meow posts driving them on each
>>>> day. I am not exaggerating.
>>>
>>>You are. But as I recall, you were one of those demon.local regulars who
>>>was spamming the newsgroups in protest of over 4 line sigs in demon.local,
>>>and threatening people's accounts over it.
>>
>> So you decided to teach them a lesson. eh?
>>
>This is not alt.flame. If you're going to make false accusations and lump
>me in with a bunch of others, it's your credibility and your case that will
>suffer.
>
>I was not a participant in the demon.local events. Take this up with those
>who were.
>
Actually, Dejanews shows that you are a participant in that. You and
the rest of the meowers were directly responsible for the posts there.
What you seem to be ignoring is that you are trying to force your
views and opinions on businesses that do not share your narrow minded
view of things.
BDZ
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <gOlCDJB6...@microser.demon.co.uk>,
> "B.E.N." <b...@microser.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> In article <6snd07$cph$3...@leol.net-link.net>, Clueless Wombat Cabal
>> <bspag...@hotmail.com> writes
>>>The subject matter is newsgroup flooding in general,
>>
>> Erm, no, the subject matter is "--- Regarding Chris Caputo and Altopia -
>> --". Do pay attention.
>
>And why is the subject matter "---Regarding Chris Caputo and Altopia---"?
>One of the reasons is newsgroup flooding, isn't it?
>
>If you find thinking about more than one thing too painful, you can always
>stop thinking ...
>
Didn't you whine that this wasn't alt.flame?
One would think that you were trying to flood nanau with several posts
consisting of the same "we need to define flooding" posts.
BDZ
>Fumbling with his secret decoder ring, <35f8382c...@hell-flame-wars.org>,
> do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>do...@REMhell-flame-wars.org (Doom) writes:
>>>> bspag...@hotmail.com (Clueless Wombat Cabal) wrote:
>>>>>Chris Lawrence <ne...@spacetime.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> A small group of Usenet vandals, called the 'meowers', have been engaged
>>>>>> in the following operations over the last several months:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> o Denial of service attacks via grossly inflated article headers
>>>>>> o Newsgroup flooding via massive overquoting, cascades and sigs
>>>>>> o News article forgery
>>>>>> o Third-party unauthorized cancels of news articles
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, it's Skippy and various members of the HFW who have been doing
>>>>>more of the abuses you list above.
>>>>
>>>> Well well. Egan stoops to blatant lies to try and make his point.
>>>> It's time for you to post some proof for all four charges.
>>>> C'mon Egan, lets see your hand...
>>>
>>>One look at alt.life.sucks is enough to show who's trying to destroy newsgroups.
>>>Answer that, if you can.
>>
>> I've had a look in alt.life.sucks, and I can't find one single
>> instance of any the four abuses mentioned by Chris Lawrence.
>
>And I can't find any examples of cancels or forgery by meowers in demon.local.
>I don't know that big headers are considered a DOS attack (and your buddy
>Zues has added a couple of unofficial ones in his), and you are much more
>guilty of newsgroup flooding than the meowers are.
>
TWO additional headers?! What about your boy 2-belo?! 50 lines of
headers?
>Where's your or Chris Lawrence's proof? All one has to do is look at als
>for 40 or 50 of Big Daddy's daily spews to prove my case.
>
How is 40-50 posts net.abuse?! You and your limited terms of
net.abuse is obvious yet again. You have such a limited view of what
constitutes abuse that you are embarrassing yourself in this forum.
>> You've stated above that we're committing net abuse in alt.life.socks,
>> but you can't back this up with any proof. Don't tell me you don't
>> have any?
>
>40 or 50 off topic posts a day to a newsgroup by one poster is net abuse.
>Caputo refuses to stop it. This, among other reasons, is why people are
>talking about cutting off alt.net.
>
Nobody is putting any serious thought into a UDP of altopia, there is
no real reason to do so other than petty professional jealousy.
>>>And try not to cut things out that change the meanings of people's words.
>>>This isn't alt.flame.
>>
>> Why would I want to cut anything?
>
>Because you just did, and it made my position to be more extreme than it was.
>
Now that sounds really familiar. 50 posts constituting net.abuse is
extreme to say the least.
>>You're the one who writes lies and
>> tries to finger Hell Flame Wars for net abuse.
>
>Defend Big Daddy Zues' flooding of alt.life.sucks, alt.music.korn, alt.animals
>dolphins. Defend Skippy's spamming and trolling of 100+ plus newsgroups to
>inspire cross posts. You are a pariticipant in these attacks. Defend them -
>or watch as people continue to argue that alt.net should be UDP'd.
>
>If people, especially you and your friends, don't start being reasonable,
>they're going to be posting to /dev/null on a lot of servers. They already
>are on some and the number is growing.
>
>Think about it.
>
Nobody has UDPd altopia and nobody is going to simply because of the
volume of posts coming from a select number of users. 50000+
newsgroups and you are trying to say that posts to 5 of them are
causing an entire server to be put in jeopardy? Ridiculous. Simply.