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SO WHAT IS HOMOPHOBIA ??

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Patricia Lawrence

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May 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/21/96
to

kto...@usit.net (Kent Torch) wrote:

<>There are NO homosexuals, there are NO straights, EVRYY ONE IS
<>BI-SEXUAL, but some of them haven't found out, or will admit it yet! We
<>are animals, and we are sexual! The word HOMOSEXUAL, is a NEW word, and
<>was unheard of just 100 years ago. Probably invented by an Evangelical.
<>

I suapect that when one engages in sexual behavior that a vast majority of people find
deviant it is comforting to believe that everyone is just like you. well-they're not.
Robert Lawrence

lawr...@arthes.com


Operation Mindcrime. . ..

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May 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/22/96
to


Patricia,

You are so true with your views. I feel sorry for Ken. Maybe you think
you are an animal Ken, but I know that we are created in the image of God.
Maybe Ken, you act a lot like an animal, not being able to control you
sex drive with rational thinking. However, it does exsist out there and
many of us know this to be true. I do not have any sexual feelings
toward men period. What part of that answer don't you get?

peace

shawn

Bob Koopman

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May 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/26/96
to

God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.

'nuff said.


Jake Tanner

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May 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/26/96
to

bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com (Bob Koopman) wrote:
>God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>
>'nuff said.

Bobby boy, if I'm not mistaken, God, the Almighty, created
EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING so I guess that means he did create
Adam and Steve...

Catch 22, eh?

frank w elliott jr

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May 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/26/96
to

bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com (Bob Koopman) writes:

>God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.

>'nuff said.

Ah, the Gospel according to Donna Summer!

God also created Jonathan and David as well as Jesus and John the Divine.

Get it? Good.

--Frank

David Whitt

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May 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/26/96
to


In article <4oa69l$v...@kdcol.kdcol.com>,


Bob Koopman <bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com> wrote:
>God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>
>'nuff said.

Ha Ha! You are so original! Actually, if you believe Biblical mythology,
God created Adam only, and then Eve was made later as an aftersight. It
would seem God wanted Adam all for himself. Sounds kinda homoerotica if
you ask me.

'nuff said.


John A. Stanley

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May 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/27/96
to

In article <4oa69l$v...@kdcol.kdcol.com>,

bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com (Bob Koopman) wrote:
>God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>
>'nuff said.

This is a classic case of Biblical mistranslation. It wasn't
Eve, it was Yves, a cute French boy with a penchant for
cocksucking and a butthole that Adam just couldn't resist.

--
John A. Stanley jsta...@gate.net

D. Braun

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May 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/27/96
to

And they were doing fine untill Jerry Falwell slithered up and gave Yves
an apple.

Dave Braun


Ross Archer

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May 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/27/96
to

>bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com (Bob Koopman) wrote:
>>God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>>
>>'nuff said.

I see. So anything God didn't directly create must be evil. Yeah.
Telephones are evil. Automobiles are evil. Anything man-made is
evil. Hahahaha... what an unthinking, moronic fool you are, Mr.
Koopman.


John Sanger

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May 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/28/96
to

Bob Koopman (bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com) wrote:
: God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.

: 'nuff said.

Then where did Steve come from? Is Steve the unknown son of Adam and
Eve? Is Steve the unknown son of Adam and his concubine? Is Steve the
unknown son of Eve and her secret lover? Is Steve the son of Eve and
her congress with Able? Is Steve the son of Eve and her congress with
Cain?
All of these are important questions that cry to be answered or the sun
will not set properly. ;^)

>'nuff said.
>

Yep!

--
Ciao!
John S. 8^{)>
tedd...@netcom.com
__

Nick Nussbaum

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May 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/28/96
to

Bob Koopman wrote:
>
> God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.


So, we learn that you will burn in hell for having an ungodly
name that doesn't begin with a vowel. That's fine with me.
>
> 'nuff said.

More than enough. Nothing is the exactly right amount to hear from you.

Scott Carpenter

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May 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/28/96
to

Bob Koopman wrote:
>
> God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>
> 'nuff said.

How original! How thought provoking! You've changed my whole life!
<sarcasm mode off>

--
/^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\| "Those who are considering love between men or between woman are our |
| enemies. Anything that emasculates our people and that makes us fair |
| game for our enemies we reject [.....] |
| This we can only do if we exercise moral restraint. Therefore we reject |
| all immorality, especially love between men, because it deprives us of |
| our last chance to free our people from the chains of slavery which are |
| keeping it fettered today." |
| ---American Family Association? Pat Buchanon? Family Research Council? |
| No, Nazi Party response to a questionaire, May 14, 1928 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------|| Scott Carpenter The views expressed are strictly the |
| scar...@cbvcp.com views of the author. |
\____________________________________________________________________________/

Conrad Sabatier

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May 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/28/96
to

Dave the Resurrector REPOST:
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========= ORIGINAL POSTING =============

In article <4oa69l$v...@kdcol.kdcol.com>, bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com (Bob Koopman) wrote:
>God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>
>'nuff said.

So who creasted Steve then?

--
Conrad Sabatier -- http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads/

T L S

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May 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/29/96
to

So what is homophobia ? It's a word that describes the one using
the word as a phagot . Usually heard as homophobic paranoid .

Robert Hanchett

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Jun 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/1/96
to Bob Koopman

Bob Koopman wrote:
>
> God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>
> 'nuff said.------------------------

Not quite. The story of Adam and Eve goes to the heart of what many find
objectionable about homosexuality. What disturbs many people is simply
that uncomfortable feeling that homosexuality is not natural, and not the
way God intended adults to express their sexuality. The fact that this
subjective feeling is actually no more than an expression of their own
particular sexual prefference somehow never surfaces in their mind. And
the reason it doesn't is that for thousands of years it has found such a
sturdy anchor in popular religion, particularly in the story of Adam and
Eve, where it mistakenly believes it has the sort of justification to
suddenly transform their own sexual prefferance, into a standard which
they feel others should live by. "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and
Steve" etc. But what is the story really saying?
After God created Adam out of dust, and breathed life into him,
He created a garden in Eden and settled him down there. But God wasn't
finnished yet, because He saw that Adam was alone. Even though Adam was
really not completely alone, in that he could walk and talk with God in
the garden, still he was a created creature and not like God, and he was
a human being and not like the rest of God's creation. He was alone in
the sense that there was nobody around who was enough like he was to form
a bond of companionship. Neither was Adam a man like Jesus Christ.
Jesus had a constant helper and companion in the Spirit of God. That's
why Jesus could say, even after everyone had deserted Him in Joh 16:32
"and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me." Adam knew God
as his Creator, but not as his Father, in the way Jesus Christ knew God.
And because of this Adam was alone, in the same way we are alone and
lonely in this world, to that extent to which we have yet to come up to
the full measure of Jesus Christ. Like Adam, most of us need a
help-mate, to experience the depth of God's intimate concern for us
through an intimate relationship with another human being.

The heart of God towards the man Adam, and by inferrence towards
every person today, was voiced in Gen 2:18 The Lord God said, It is not
good for the man to be alone: I will make a helper suitable for him"
So God made all the animals and birds and paraded them before
Adam, but they were found to be unsatisfactory as helpers. They were
still not enough like he was. So God created Eve from Adam's rib.

Understand that the picture here is not of a God who threw a man
and a woman together and commanded them to start having sex. In fact the
issue of sexuality had not even entered into the picture at this point.
Help-mate did not mean a mate in any sexual way, or God would not have
bothered to see if the animals might have made a suitable help-mate. God
certainly wasn't suggesting that Adam have sex with the animals!!

It also says that before the fall Adam and Eve were naked and not
ashamed, Gen 2:23,"And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and
were not ashamed." - in other words they were innocent. It is only after
the fall that sexuality is now implied with the statement to Eve that Gen
3:16 "With pain you will give birth to children." It was only after the
fall that Gen 3:20 "Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the
mother of all the living." Because eating the apple in the garden of
Eden is an obvious and long-established metaphore for sexual relations
between Adam and Eve. The knowledge gained after eating from the tree
certainly included 'carnal knowledge'. Don't we still mark our loss of
innocence with our first sexual encounter? Isn't this what it means to
presume to be like God - to be, like God, a creator of life? Isn't this
why Adam and Eve were afterwards ashamed of their nakedness? Only a
blindly literal interpretation of the story of Adam and Eve could miss
the point the author was making - that sex, "heterosexual" sex, was
involved in the fall - and eating the forbidden fruit and becoming like
God is a metaphore for giving into sexual temptation and becoming a
creator of life, like God. The idea that God's original intention was
for Adam and Eve to lay around the garden of Eden having guilt-free sex
all day is plainly rediculous, and has more to do with a fallen and
sex-obsessed heterosexual man's idea of paradise than the story of
creation.
The early church understood all of this very well - so that even
those who had to marry were encouraged to, 'undue the sin of Adam', by
remaining apart for periods of time.
So if we still want to claim that God intends men only to pair up
sexually with women, and visa versa, we first of all need to
acknowledge that He originally didn't intend for them to pair up sexually
at all. They paired themselves up in that style. Those looking to the
story of Adam and Eve in order to sanctify their own sexual prefferance
need to humble themselves and look a little closer at what actually
occurred.

Robert

Cliff Pearson

unread,
Jun 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/3/96
to

Bob Koopman writes:

> God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>
> 'nuff said.

Oh, OK. Well who created Adam and Steve? Because I really
want to shake his/her hand. They were great in that three-way
last night.


CENSORSHIP IS WRONG!!!

unread,
Jun 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/3/96
to

Scott Carpenter wrote:

>
> Bob Koopman wrote:
> >
> > God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
> >
> > 'nuff said.
>
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J.Rodak

unread,
Jun 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/4/96
to

Robert Hanchett <rhan...@idt.liberty.com> writes:
The fact that this subjective feeling is actually no more than an expression of their own
> particular sexual prefference somehow never surfaces in their mind. And
> the reason it doesn't is that for thousands of years it has found such a
> sturdy anchor in popular religion, particularly in the story of Adam and
> Eve, where it mistakenly believes it has the sort of justification to
> suddenly transform their own sexual prefferance, into a standard which
> they feel others should live by. "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and
> Steve" etc. But what is the story really saying?

Who knows. *MY* biggest amusement comes from those who thump on the "it's not
clean or natural!!" argument vis-a-vis gay sex.

I'm here as a straight woman to tell you that straight sex is no uncomplicated
slice of heaven, either.

Sheesh. No wonder women have so much more understanding and empathy toward
homosexuals than men do. It's all the same to us. Nothing pristine about it.

Don Abernathey

unread,
Jun 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/5/96
to

--Stuff snipped--

>Not quite. The story of Adam and Eve goes to the heart of what many find
>objectionable about homosexuality. What disturbs many people is simply
>that uncomfortable feeling that homosexuality is not natural, and not the
>way God intended adults to express their sexuality. The fact that this
>subjective feeling is actually no more than an expression of their own
>particular sexual prefference somehow never surfaces in their mind. And
--interesting stuff snipped--

>finnished yet, because He saw that Adam was alone. Even though Adam was
>really not completely alone, in that he could walk and talk with God in
>the garden, still he was a created creature and not like God, and he was
>a human being and not like the rest of God's creation. He was alone in
>the sense that there was nobody around who was enough like he was to form
>a bond of companionship. Neither was Adam a man like Jesus Christ.
>Jesus had a constant helper and companion in the Spirit of God. That's
>why Jesus could say, even after everyone had deserted Him in Joh 16:32
>"and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me." Adam knew God
--interesting stuff snipped--

> It also says that before the fall Adam and Eve were naked and not
>ashamed, Gen 2:23,"And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and
>were not ashamed." - in other words they were innocent. It is only after
>the fall that sexuality is now implied with the statement to Eve that Gen
>3:16 "With pain you will give birth to children." It was only after the
>fall that Gen 3:20 "Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the
>mother of all the living." Because eating the apple in the garden of
--interesting stuff snipped---

> The early church understood all of this very well - so that even
>those who had to marry were encouraged to, 'undue the sin of Adam', by
>remaining apart for periods of time.
--interesting stuff snipped--
Hello!

I really didn't want to snip any of the preceeding as it was articulated
nicely. However, I don't know how to get around the Netscape error "More
included text than new text". I'm sure there is an option to set somewhere, I
just haven't found it.

Now onward:
The uncomfortable feeling resulting from the thought of homosexuality is not
due to one's own sexual preferences, but rather an observation of the world in
general. Homosexuality is the deviation, not the norm, and people can see that
in people and animals.

Regarding Adam - Adam had a very close relationship with God - hence the term
"Adamic perfection". It is conjecture to suggest that God created Eve only as
a human replica to fellowship with Adam. It also conjecture to suggest that
procreation only came into being after the fall. God clearly intend
procreation to be the norm when he created plants and animals. We don't know
how long Adam and Eve were in the garden nor do we know whether or not they
had children. We only know that Eve named Abel, after the fall. The book of
Genesis spends precious little time in the garden.

Remember that Moses is credited with writing the book of Genesis. The book of
Genesis also describes the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah. Moses also wrote
the book of Leviticus where sex between men, men and/or women with animals,
and between women was declared an abomination, punishable by death.

Regarding the early church - The Apostle Paul made it very clear in the first
chapter of Romans that homosexuality is a sin and far from the natural order
that God had created. Paul advocated celibacy as a higher spiritual pursuit,
because of increased devotion to God. Paul also recognized that celibacy was
not for everyone and encouraged those so inclined to marry. Paul is the one
who warned couples not to deprive one another of sex, so that they wouldn't
fall into temptation, i.e. sexual lust, sexual immorality.

Thank you
--
The above comments are my own and not my employer's. Have a great day!
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb=
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb=
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb


pwcnva2

unread,
Jun 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/5/96
to

In article <4ovvdj$l...@barad-dur.nas.com>, J.Rodak <tera...@az.com> wrote:

>Robert Hanchett <rhan...@idt.liberty.com> writes:
> The fact that this subjective feeling is actually no more than an
expression of their own
>> particular sexual prefference somehow never surfaces in their mind. And
>> the reason it doesn't is that for thousands of years it has found such a
>> sturdy anchor in popular religion, particularly in the story of Adam and
>> Eve, where it mistakenly believes it has the sort of justification to
>> suddenly transform their own sexual prefferance, into a standard which
>> they feel others should live by. "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and
>> Steve" etc. But what is the story really saying?
>
>
>
> Who knows. *MY* biggest amusement comes from those who thump on the
"it's not
> clean or natural!!" argument vis-a-vis gay sex.
>
> I'm here as a straight woman to tell you that straight sex is no
uncomplicated
> slice of heaven, either.
>
> Sheesh. No wonder women have so much more understanding and empathy
toward
> homosexuals than men do. It's all the same to us. Nothing pristine about
it.
>
>
My experience is that men have a problem with two men having sex, but have
much less of a problem with two women having sex.

BW

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The only easy day @ Anyone can hit
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David Whitt

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Jun 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/5/96
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Since we all seem to be using ancient mythology instead of logic and
reasoning to back up our views concerning homosexuality, I guess I'll do
the same. Instead of using ancient Hebrew mythology, why not Greek? The
stories of Apollo and Hyacinthus and that of Zeus and Ganymede clearly
show homosexuality to be okay. If the Gods do it, why can't man? Yes I
am being sarcastic, but this thread really is quite stupid. To credit
Moses with actually writing parts of the Bible is like crediting Jesus
with writing the New Testiment. It's a lame ploy to try to add
credibility to a document that has little to none. First of all the Old
Testament was added down by word of mouth for many generations. We know
how accurate that is. Then when it was finally written down, it was
translated, and translated again, and again. My point is, since man is
not perfect, everything he did in regards to the Bible was flawed. The
handing down by word of mouth over generations - flawed and distorted the
original meaning, if any, the Bible first had. The the writing down of
the first Bible - flawed again since done by human. The translations -
flawed again since done by human. Meaning changed, words distorted, etc.
If you want to view the Bible in a more logical and sensible way, view it
for what it is - the ancient mythology of the Hebrew. It might not be as
fun as the Greek or Norse mythos, but at least you won't find yourself
feeling guilty about being gay, or eating bacon for breakfast, or wearing
a mixed cotton-polyester shirt, all of which are condemed in the Bible.


-DW

Nikolai

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Jun 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/5/96
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pwcnva2 wrote:

> My experience is that men have a problem with two men having sex, but have
> much less of a problem with two women having sex.
>

I wonder if this comes from some men holding the idea that men are superior.
They "fuck" women, and are therefore superior. so they are uncomfortable
with the idea that men can be "fucked" too. This would mean that, in this
sense, men are the same as women, which threatens them. This, I think, would
be in addition to their already-present homophobia, causing them to dislike
the idea of M-M more than F-F. I also think it might be because a common
male fantasy is to have sex with two women (seems to me that M-F-M or maybe
M-M-F would be more logical, though). Anyhow, those are some of my theories.

--
-Nikolai Faaland aka AuldAne
nik...@nwlink.com

"Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste.
I've been around for a long long year, stolen many a man's soul and faith.
I was around when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain.
Made damn sure that Pilate washed his hands, and sealed his fate.
Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name!"

Kodiak

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Jun 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/6/96
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David Whitt (davw...@med.unc.edu) wrote:
: Since we all seem to be using ancient mythology instead of logic and

I wasn't ware they had polyester 2000 years or more ago. That'd odd. :)

Well, first of all, I agree 100% with what you're saying here, the bible
is just mythology. But before anyone goes nuts over that, it's about time
someone set some folks straight as to what "Mythology" means. Too often
people confuse the word with "fantasy", which it isn't, or "fiction",
which it isn't. It means "Sacred Story". So the validity of said story is
up to the reader/listener, the word mythology doesn't make it an untruth.
And there are those who believe the "mythology" of the Greeks, Romans,
Norse, Egyptians, etc, to be quite REAL. But at least in those cases, the
tales are accepted as handed down word of mouth through generations, and
it's accepted by those who believe, that there may be many inaccuracies,
which is why there are no central churches or single books in those
faiths. Anyway, my $0.02 on that particular topic.

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Lucas McCaw

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Jun 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/7/96
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On 5 Jun 1996 13:00:08 GMT, pwc...@norfolk.infi.net (pwcnva2) wrote:
>
>>
>> Who knows. *MY* biggest amusement comes from those who thump on the
>"it's not
>> clean or natural!!" argument vis-a-vis gay sex.
>>
>> I'm here as a straight woman to tell you that straight sex is no
>uncomplicated
>> slice of heaven, either.
>>
>> Sheesh. No wonder women have so much more understanding and empathy
>toward
>> homosexuals than men do. It's all the same to us. Nothing pristine about
>it.
>>
>>
>My experience is that men have a problem with two men having sex, but have
>much less of a problem with two women having sex.


I've talked to many women who have no problem with gay men,
but are totally grossed out by lesbians. Perhaps it has more to do
with it being like a fantasy; men will never have to become involved
in a lesbian relationship, so there is no "worry". The same goes for
women in thinking about a gay relationship.


Leila

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Jun 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/7/96
to

On 5 Jun 1996, pwcnva2 wrote:

> In article <4ovvdj$l...@barad-dur.nas.com>, J.Rodak <tera...@az.com> wrote:
> >Robert Hanchett <rhan...@idt.liberty.com> writes:
> > The fact that this subjective feeling is actually no more than an
> expression of their own
> >> particular sexual prefference somehow never surfaces in their mind. And
> >> the reason it doesn't is that for thousands of years it has found such a
> >> sturdy anchor in popular religion, particularly in the story of Adam and
> >> Eve, where it mistakenly believes it has the sort of justification to
> >> suddenly transform their own sexual prefferance, into a standard which
> >> they feel others should live by. "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and
> >> Steve" etc. But what is the story really saying?
> >
> >
> >

> > Who knows. *MY* biggest amusement comes from those who thump on the
> "it's not
> > clean or natural!!" argument vis-a-vis gay sex.
> >
> > I'm here as a straight woman to tell you that straight sex is no
> uncomplicated
> > slice of heaven, either.
> >
> > Sheesh. No wonder women have so much more understanding and empathy
> toward
> > homosexuals than men do. It's all the same to us. Nothing pristine about
> it.
> >
> >
> My experience is that men have a problem with two men having sex, but have
> much less of a problem with two women having sex.
>

> BW

This is only when the two women fulfill that male idea of what
women should be -- that is, the (pornographic) image of two long haired,
glossy lipped women at it with each other, but really only waiting for
their man to grace them with his presence. While this *is* possible, the
more realistic "average-looking" lesbian couple consistently comes under
fire by straight men ... generally saying that the women are not,
actually "real" women...

Des

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Jun 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/7/96
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>*************************************************************
>The only easy day @ Anyone can hit
>was yesterday. __ @ </\_ the Snooze button
> ^^^^^^^^ _ \ <_ _/\
> (_)/ (_) /
>************************************************************
I agree sooooooooooooooo much with what you said-speaking as another
straight woman! Go Girl!
Destany :)


John Pierce

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Jun 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/7/96
to

My name is John and I'm a 27 yr old grad. student living in the San Diego
area; I'm looking to meet new people so drop me a line and tell me about
yourself....ON LINE FRIENDSHIP BUILDERS
JP

Walter Gould

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Jun 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/8/96
to


Well, I now think I've seen everything. SPAMming
news.admin.net-abuse.misc ?

George F. Hardy

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Jun 8, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/8/96
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In article <31B904...@adnc.com>, John Pierce <j...@adnc.com> says:
>
>My name is John and I'm a 27 yr old grad. student living in the San Diego
>area; I'm looking to meet new people so drop me a line and tell me about
>yourself....ON LINE FRIENDSHIP BUILDERS
>JP
>

Barf.


David C. Wright

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Jun 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/9/96
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In group soc.women, article <4ovvdj$l...@barad-dur.nas.com>,
J.Rodak <tera...@az.com> wrote:

...

> Sheesh. No wonder women have so much more understanding and empathy toward
> homosexuals than men do. It's all the same to us. Nothing pristine about it.

I tend to go with George Carlin on this one. Discussing whether
homosexuality was normal/natural, he came up with this (heavily paraphrased
- I'm not as funny as George Carlin by any stretch):

Is it natural? Weeeeelllll probably not. The purpose of sex is
procreation, and that is summarily removed from consideration in any kind
of homosexual sex. A homosexual couple cannot reproduce, so it's probably
not natural.

Is it normal? Well, let's see. If you're in a dark room with some other
person, and you're hugging and loving and rubbing each other up and down
and it feels good, then that's normal. Then the light comes on and you see
it's the same sex, we've been trained to go AUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! But
that's a conditioned response. It felt normal in the dark, so the change
in lighting does not affect normalcy.

So maybe it's normal without being natural.

Add to this the fundamental fact that homosexuality does occur in the wild
kingdom for several reasons, and that, in it's turn, implies that it's
natural as well as normal. The Ancient Greeks, who were not by any stretch
societally illiterate, accepted homosexuality, and indeed *invited* them
into the military.

The situation seemed to be this: If you have an army full of homosexuals,
and they all pair off into couples, when they go into battle, they are not
fighting for such trivialities as Queen and Country, or Honor, or Loyalty.
They are fighting for Love. One could scarcely imagine a stronger
motivator. That may explain why the Greek military was so formidable in
it's day.

This is not to say that I think that homosexuals should be pressed into
military service in order to gain such an advantage - far from it. Nobody
(read: including women) should be exempted from military service for any
reason, and nobody should be pressed into military service for any
particular reason (read: including men). However, the history of the
ancient greeks certainly provides evidence that homosexuality is not a
contemporary condition. It has existed for a very long time. So society
cannot readily write off homosexuality to 'intersexual pressure' brought on
by 'womens liberation'. It existed *long* before that, in situations where
it needn't have existed within that society. Given the available evidence,
I am inclined to think that homosexuality is both normal and natural.

--
David C. Wright - wri...@magic.mb.ca PGP public key at:
http://www.magic.mb.ca/~wrightd

Automobile, n.:
A four-wheeled vehicle that runs up hills and down pedestrians.

cassian

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Jun 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/13/96
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davw...@med.unc.edu (David Whitt) wrote:

>In article <4oa69l$v...@kdcol.kdcol.com>,


>Bob Koopman <bkoo...@mail.kdcol.com> wrote:
>>God, the Almighty, created Adam and Eve. NOT Adam and Steve.
>>
>>'nuff said.

>Ha Ha! You are so original! Actually, if you believe Biblical mythology,


>God created Adam only, and then Eve was made later as an aftersight. It
>would seem God wanted Adam all for himself. Sounds kinda homoerotica if
>you ask me.

>'nuff said.


Actually, if you go back a bit further, GOD 'created' Lilith, and
Adam was put in 2nd. Why does this even matter? We are not
in Eden anymore, we are here...and GOD is crying for the
children who suffer because their parents can't seem to find
better things to fight about than their fellow human's lifestyle.
Unless you are in the relationship, what right is it of yours to
decide who it is with? Every person makes their own choices
in life because it is THEIR life. Now unless you are willing to
be disected, filtered, and then reconditioned to what someone
else believes you should be,(BOB) you sir should BACK OFF!!!


Fred Cherry

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Jun 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/13/96
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John Pierce <j...@adnc.com> writes:

>My name is John and I'm a 27 yr old grad. student living in the San Diego
>area; I'm looking to meet new people so drop me a line and tell me about
>yourself....ON LINE FRIENDSHIP BUILDERS
>JP

Do me a favor, please. Drop a line to Seth Breidbart (se...@panix.com)
and ask him why he doesn't say anything about your crosspost to 24
newsgroups.

*************************************************************************

Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln

jo...@cybercom.net


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