Block of Terra.es and other Telefonica com pañies (telefonica.net and infonegocio.com)
Julian Peris
I am a user of Telefonica.net. In Spain, more than 80% of high speed
users use Telefonica's ADSL service, and most of them don't have a
proper domain so use generic telefonica.net, terra.es and
infonegocio.com.
Also, Terra.es permits people anywhere in the world to create a free
account.
Of course, in the millions of users I am sure there are a few
spammers, porn spammers or whatever.
I don't like receiving spam and even worse porn spam, but I can't see
Hotmail.com, AOL, Tripod or Yahoo blocked in Spews and I imagine it is
because there are millions of users and you can't block a large ISP
just because they have a couple of hundreds or thousands bastard users
that use them for spamming other people.
I will also send this message to Telefonica (the main telephone and
ADSL provider in Spain, 95% of phones and at least 80% of Spanish
high-speed users), as I think they should be the ones that whould
react against this kind of filtering.
I want you to know I am COMPLETELY AGAINST apam, porn, etc., but I
don't like being filtered just because a 0.001% of the users of my ISP
behaves badly.
Thanks for reading this message,
Julian
Rich Clark, aka Left Rev Egg Plant, ULC, CotSG
> Hi,
>
> I am a user of Telefonica.net. In Spain, more than 80% of high speed
> users use Telefonica's ADSL service, and most of them don't have a
> proper domain so use generic telefonica.net, terra.es and
> infonegocio.com.
Hello. Very nice.
> Also, Terra.es permits people anywhere in the world to create a free
> account.
This is a free email service, correct?
> Of course, in the millions of users I am sure there are a few
> spammers, porn spammers or whatever.
Could be. As long as Telefonica is cleaning them up quickly when
notified, all's well.
> I don't like receiving spam and even worse porn spam, but I can't see
> Hotmail.com, AOL, Tripod or Yahoo blocked in Spews and I imagine it is
> because there are millions of users and you can't block a large ISP
> just because they have a couple of hundreds or thousands bastard users
> that use them for spamming other people.
Nope, I don't like receiving spam or porn spam or any other type of
spam either. Hotmail, aol, tripod and yahoo are usually forged
domains in the envelope headers, so they're falsely implicated as the
sending domain. Most spam these days come from machines set up with
open proxy servers which allow access from anywhere to anywhere.
This, if you didn't realize it, is bad.
> I will also send this message to Telefonica (the main telephone and
> ADSL provider in Spain, 95% of phones and at least 80% of Spanish
> high-speed users), as I think they should be the ones that whould
> react against this kind of filtering.
One would think so. If they're blocklisted, they're blocklisted for
good reason. In my own estimation, based on a history of abuse
reports filed with ab...@telefonica.net, et al, I've seen them move
glacially slow to remove spammers from their network. Therefore, I'm
certain they have some pretty large blocks of their network on several
of the major public blocklists, and they're also firmly ensconsed in
my own private filters, where the rule generally is, "Set it and
FORGET IT!"
> I want you to know I am COMPLETELY AGAINST apam, porn, etc., but I
> don't like being filtered just because a 0.001% of the users of my ISP
> behaves badly.
Well, combine that with the fact that abuse complaints fall on deaf
ears at ab...@telefonica.net, et al, and you'll see why they're listed
on SPEWS, et al. If they were to start nuking spammers immediately
upon being notified of their abuse, I suppose you wouldn't be posting
your sad story here. Ever think of calling them up and asking them
why they don't take action on reports of email abuse?
> Thanks for reading this message,
Thanks, Julian, for posting it. Understand your problem isn't with
blocklists. Your problem is with the folks who manage your ISP and
the fact that they don't nuke spammers.
Rich
--
"In the anals [sic] of internet history no story has generated more hilarity
than the day the florida spammers all got together, pooled their meager
resources, and committed mass-suicide in Federal Court, while many of
those they were trying to sue nearly died laughing." Quaestor on NANAE 4/25/03
TINLC Unit #2309 Death to all spammer accounts. WWSB?
adam brower
>
> Hi,
>
> I am a user of Telefonica.net. In Spain, more than 80% of high speed
> users use Telefonica's ADSL service, and most of them don't have a
> proper domain so use generic telefonica.net, terra.es and
> infonegocio.com.
>
> Also, Terra.es permits people anywhere in the world to create a free
> account.
>
and telefonica kept the notorious martijn bevelander
turned up, ignoring reports from all over the
world, until threatened with a peering war.
> Of course, in the millions of users I am sure there are a few
> spammers, porn spammers or whatever.
>
> I don't like receiving spam and even worse porn spam, but I can't see
> Hotmail.com, AOL, Tripod or Yahoo blocked in Spews and I imagine it is
> because there are millions of users and you can't block a large ISP
> just because they have a couple of hundreds or thousands bastard users
> that use them for spamming other people.
>
with the exception of yahoo stores, the large mail
providers you name above act quickly to remove
spammers. even so, many admins do indeed block some or
all of the providers you name. it's entirely up to them.
the problem is that telefonica seem to ignore reports.
> I will also send this message to Telefonica (the main telephone and
> ADSL provider in Spain, 95% of phones and at least 80% of Spanish
> high-speed users), as I think they should be the ones that whould
> react against this kind of filtering.
>
i agree. however, in the past they have indiacted that
they really couldn't care less. i encourage you to
try, though. maybe they'll listen to you.
> I want you to know I am COMPLETELY AGAINST apam, porn, etc., but I
> don't like being filtered just because a 0.001% of the users of my ISP
> behaves badly.
>
it is unfortunate, i agree, that some users must
suffer for the greed or indifference of a provider
like telefonica. however, take heart. i was informed
yesterday that spews is queried hardly at all,
so any inconvenience to you will be limited.
adam
--
Adrian
news:c36250d.03072...@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
><snip>
>
> I want you to know I am COMPLETELY AGAINST apam, porn, etc., but I
> don't like being filtered just because a 0.001% of the users of my ISP
> behaves badly.
They are not being blocked for having badly behaved users. They are being
blocked because they do nothing about them.
Adrian Edmonds
Julian Peris
> In article <c36250d.03072...@posting.google.com>, Julian Peris wrote:
> > Also, Terra.es permits people anywhere in the world to create a free
> > account.
>
> This is a free email service, correct?
Correct
> > Of course, in the millions of users I am sure there are a few
> > spammers, porn spammers or whatever.
>
> Could be. As long as Telefonica is cleaning them up quickly when
> notified, all's well.
I imagine they don't, if not I wouldn't be writing here <g>
> > I don't like receiving spam and even worse porn spam, but I can't see
> > Hotmail.com, AOL, Tripod or Yahoo blocked in Spews and I imagine it is
> > because there are millions of users and you can't block a large ISP
> > just because they have a couple of hundreds or thousands bastard users
> > that use them for spamming other people.
>
> Nope, I don't like receiving spam or porn spam or any other type of
> spam either. Hotmail, aol, tripod and yahoo are usually forged
> domains in the envelope headers, so they're falsely implicated as the
> sending domain. Most spam these days come from machines set up with
> open proxy servers which allow access from anywhere to anywhere.
> This, if you didn't realize it, is bad.
I imagine it is quite true, I normally delete them with Magic Mail
Monitor and don't lose time with them :-(((
> > I will also send this message to Telefonica (the main telephone and
> > ADSL provider in Spain, 95% of phones and at least 80% of Spanish
> > high-speed users), as I think they should be the ones that whould
> > react against this kind of filtering.
>
> One would think so. If they're blocklisted, they're blocklisted for
> good reason. In my own estimation, based on a history of abuse
> reports filed with ab...@telefonica.net, et al, I've seen them move
> glacially slow to remove spammers from their network. Therefore, I'm
> certain they have some pretty large blocks of their network on several
> of the major public blocklists, and they're also firmly ensconsed in
> my own private filters, where the rule generally is, "Set it and
> FORGET IT!"
I have got to tell you that I also think they move slowly, they
haven't even answered me 5 or 6 e-mails I sent them, 2 or 3 about a
month ago and 3 yesterday.
> > I want you to know I am COMPLETELY AGAINST apam, porn, etc., but I
> > don't like being filtered just because a 0.001% of the users of my ISP
> > behaves badly.
>
> Well, combine that with the fact that abuse complaints fall on deaf
> ears at ab...@telefonica.net, et al, and you'll see why they're listed
> on SPEWS, et al. If they were to start nuking spammers immediately
> upon being notified of their abuse, I suppose you wouldn't be posting
> your sad story here. Ever think of calling them up and asking them
> why they don't take action on reports of email abuse?
Don't worry, I will. The bad thing is it is practically a monopoly, so
there isn't too much to be done :-(((((
> > Thanks for reading this message,
>
> Thanks, Julian, for posting it. Understand your problem isn't with
> blocklists. Your problem is with the folks who manage your ISP and
> the fact that they don't nuke spammers.
Sadly I know, but the only move I have been left is to move my hosting
ISP for the domains I need spanish e-mail accounts to be received, I
can't wait till Telefonica moves because I will lose a lot of
important e-mail and I don't think it is worth moving to another ADSL
provider as they all use Telefonica's lines and, of course, if there
is a lack of bandwidth you can imagine who receives it, it happens on
phone-calls to other local networks so it will also happen on ADSL
connections ...
Julian
Richard Johnson
jul...@mvps.org (Julian Peris) wrote:
> I don't like receiving spam and even worse porn spam, but I can't see
> Hotmail.com, AOL, Tripod or Yahoo blocked in Spews and I imagine it is
> because there are millions of users and you can't block a large ISP
> just because they have a couple of hundreds or thousands bastard users
> that use them for spamming other people.
This hotmail.com et al blame-fest appears to be common misconception
among telefonica users. Perhaps you're reading it uncritically in some
company propaganda, and passing it on blindly? If so, please let us
know where you're seeing this, so we can ask the source to correct their
problem.
In the meantime, allow me to set you straight about address forgery.
NOT SIGNIFICANT SPAM SOURCES
----------------------------
Aside from their webdav bug (which is supposedly being throttled
severely at last), almost -no- spam actually comes from hotmail.com or
msn.com servers.
Yahoo.com, while they do spam for themselves via their bulk.yahoo.com
domain hosts, sends almost no spam from their users as well.
Even more, I haven't heard of tripod in a long while, let alone received
spam from their servers.
Finally, AOL sends almost no spam at all from their servers to the
outside Internet. This has been the case for years.
THE REAL PROBLEM
----------------
Instead, what you're seeing are spammers forging @hotmail.com/@msn.com,
@yahoo.com, @tripod.com, & @aol.com on their spams. They most often
send their spams via open proxies to advertise havens on free providers.
Those open proxies are very often on telefonica DSL customer machines.
Those spam havens are quite often on telefonica free hosting.
In particular, kiddie porn spam gangs and prescription fraud gangs seem
to like telefonica.
So, do you really want us to consider forgery victims the same as the
spam facilitators? I'm sorry, but I'm going to leave forgery victims
alone as long as possible while I try to control the problem by
blocklisting the actual facilitators, such as telefonica.
THE SOLUTION
------------
Once telefonica stops actively facilitating spam by allowing open
proxies and havens on their network, then it won't make sense to
blocklist them.
Good luck!
Richard
--
To reply via email, make sure you don't enter the whirlpool on river left.
My mailbox. My property. My personal space. My rules. Deal with it.
http://www.river.com/users/share/cluetrain/
Cliff Heller
> I want you to know I am COMPLETELY AGAINST apam, porn, etc., but I
> don't like being filtered just because a 0.001% of the users of my ISP
> behaves badly.
It's not so much the users that behaves badly. It's the ISP itself that
behaves badly, by basically ignoring all complaints. This causes
spammers to flock to the network.
Don't think of it as a percentage of users either. The percentage of
email from telefonica that is spam is probably 99% of all traffic.
Without any recourse to the provider the only solution is to block all
traffic from them.
--
"Letters may be used to construct words, phrases and sentences that may be
deemed offensive."
-Warning label on children's alphabet blocks
Verbila
> you can't block a large ISP
> just because they have a couple of hundreds or thousands bastard users
> that use them for spamming other people.
Yes we can. If the ISP does not respond to complaints about their
spamming customers, we can and will block them.
I am not SPEWS,
verbila
Mike Andrews
> ... you can't block a large ISP
> just because they have a couple of hundreds or thousands bastard users
> that use them for spamming other people.
I don't see anything to stop me here at home, and if my manager
at work approves, I can do it there, too.
My server, my rules. My job's servers, my bosses' rules.
Nothing obliges me or my employer to receive E-mail from your
provider.
--
Mike Andrews
mi...@mikea.ath.cx
Tired old sysadmin since 1964
Julian Peris
Thanks for the clarification and thanks for the messages explaining
why this has happened.
If *some people* have understood my message as personal I am sorry, it
wasn't intended to be so, and also the "Oh yes I can" attitudes
answering the quoted part of my message that was more juicy "you can't
." not quoting the rest of the message, well, didn't really make my
day, just to let you know I have learnt why Telefonica has been banned
and I have also learned that some people like to help, others just
like to make people know they are there, but don't worry, I see that
attitude most days in the newsgroups I attend and it isn't a new
feeling.
Thanks again in general.
Julian
Trying to be polite, no pun intended