Hi Ian, I very much enjoyed the paper and was pleased to discover the connections between your chapter and mine on issues concerning the epistemic role of consciousness. As you probably know, I take the internalist line that unconscious perception in blindsight and super-blindsight does not provide a source of immediate or non-inferential knowledge of the external world. So, I found it very interesting to think about whether it’s plausible for me to adopt an analogous line for the alleged “non-imagers”.
If we take the non-imagers at their word, and suppose that they do not experience conscious imagery at all, then I’d be inclined to push the analogies with super-blindsight. For instance, even if they give the right answer to questions about, say, the congruence of Shepard figures, they have no introspective access to the information that they’re using in answering these questions, so presumably it would seem to them as if they’re just guessing. Perhaps over time, they can become confident in their reliability in these sorts of tests, and so acquire a kind of inferentially mediated knowledge that is equally available to the veteran blindsighter. But even in that case, there would be no epistemic role for the unconscious imagery itself, as opposed to the background beliefs that they’re relying upon concerning their own reliability.
Having said this, I do feel some resistance to this taking this line in the case of the non-imagers, but not for the reason you give, i.e. that their performance in the relevant task is suitably reliable, but rather because I’m inclined towards pessimism about the reliability of these introspective reports for many of the reasons that Nigel Thomas gives in the post linked below:
http://www.imagery-imagination.com/non-im.htm
Moreover, I don’t share the view that there is any kind of incoherence involved in introspective unreliability – don’t the examples of blind people who think they can see and sighted people who think they’re blind put pressure on views that forge such a tight connection between consciousness and introspection?
It seems to me that the problems posed by non-imagers are similar to the problems that arise in connection with chicken sexing. It’s hard to deny that chicken-sexers know the difference between male and female chickens, although they’re unable to explain how they know the difference. One explanation is that they’re using unconscious perceptual cues, but this makes it hard to see how they’re in any better position to acquire non-inferential perceptual knowledge than the blindsighter or the super-blindsighter. An alternative explanation is that they’re using conscious perceptual cues, but they’re very bad at articulating them. This makes it easier to see how they can acquire non-inferential perceptual knowledge, since the reasons for their judgements are introspectively accessible, although they’re not very good at accessing them. Maybe something similar is true in the case of the non-imagers?
Hi Ian
I tremendously enjoyed the paper and I found it provided much food for thought on issues I am working on (how perception/simulation relates to belief/judgement). I definitely agree with you that it is unappealing to think people are often very mistaken about their inner lives as Schwitzgebel argues. But I was wondering what you thought about an alternative explanation that also makes people right about their inner lives.
I guess that I am probably a quasi-pictorialist when it comes to perceptual and imagistic experience. On this basis one can distinguish between thinking imagistically and the richness and vividness with which the detail in the quasi-pictures are ‘filled in’.
Consider blindfold chess: the very best players can (miraculously!) simultaneously play between 10 and 30 players whilst blindfolded. It seems plausible that to achieve this feat they must be able to imagistically (i.e. isomorphically to the spatial layout in the world) set out the board and what squares the pieces are currently on for each game. But what they would not need to do is render the images of the board and the pieces in any great detail (e.g. faithfully reproduce the little crenelations at the top of a rook). It could be that in the limiting cases what was laid out were something as minimal as dots (in their proper relative locations) that the system was able to interpret. In these cases the player might report no imagery.
According to the quasi-pictorialist, despite there being very little imagery, this would still count as imagistic thinking, as opposed to propositional thinking (the image would simultaneously enact many different propositions). And of course the player could be fully conscious of their reasons for moves (e.g. “because I could see that the piece was undefended”).
The same would go for tasks like rotating Shepard figures or counting the windows at the back of your house. To do the task well one must be able to layout the components according to how they would be in space (e.g. a few dots at salient points of the Shepard figure). But one would not need to fill in all the detail such as line edges or bricks. Again one might report having very little or even no imagery in such cases but still be fully conscious of the spatial layout one uses as evidence for one’s judgements.
This alternative would be confounded if there were cases of tasks that required high levels of detail in the imagery to succeed and people reported experiencing little or no detail. For example Stromayer 70 reports on ‘Elizabeth’ who supposedly could reproduce the detail in stereograms in imagination a day after having seen them. High levels of detail might also be required to see the alternative view in the duck/rabbit figure just from imagining it. I’m afraid that I don’t know the literature well enough to know if there are any reports of non-imagers succeeding in tasks which require detailed imagery. If there were that would support your view.
In any event, nothing I say contradicts your view but it might be another alternative worth putting on the table!
Hi Ian, thanks for the excellent paper – I am afraid, I have very little to disagree with here. I would worry more about people’s reluctance to give up the assumption that mental imagery is necessarily conscious. Maybe it would be useful to provide some kind of big picture motivation for this stance – something along the lines of ‘Perception can be conscious or unconscious. Given the various similarities between perception and mental imagery, on the face of it, mental imagery can also be conscious or unconscious’. What do you think about this strategy (just for showing that it’s not a crazy claim)?
I give an independent argument for the claim that mental imagery can be (and is often is) unconscious in my Amodal perception paper (2010), so your project here and my project there would tie in nicely. I also think that Neil van Leeuwen’s concept of mental imagery (in his 2011) is not necessarily conscious – so there may be some momentum in that direction…
ps. A potentially very misleading typo on p. 17, first line: I assume what you want to say is that you do NOT want to endorse this view here.
Non-imagers do not form the beliefs characteristic of Dennett’s β-manifolds. As a result, such subjects appear to lack imagery in the scientific sense: they have no β-manifold concerning their imagery, and imagery in the scientific sense is by definition the cause of such a manifold.