Re: CCC - New Edinburgh Park - Dogs

[Gosse Bruinsma]

Hi Cindy,

I do not believe that there is a grey area pertaining to the limits of authority or mandate of the CCC - this has been clearly defined in a “contract” between CCC and the City of Ottawa. I suggest strongly that NECA gets a copy of this. 

I do not believe that there can be any doubt as to the scope of CCC’s request (please see below in BOLD).

I agree completely that any communication with the City from our community (or part thereof) should come from NECA, (any one or few individual(s) speaking for him/herself in the interests of him/herself is of course free to interact with the City/Counselor at all times). The rational would be that the involvement and support of NECA may cause any issue to be taken more seriously as it would be coming from the official representation of the New Edinburgh community.

There are a number of fundamental issues that need to be addressed:

1) there does not appear to be any consideration given to the fact that the dogs passing by the Fieldhouse en route into or out of the park only do so because the usual route along the multi-use pathway is now being used as an exit route for the CSST. Prior to the CSST there were very few if any dogs in proximity to the Fieldhouse or playground, therefore, I believe it very likely that “safety” issues around the Fieldhouse will disappear as the CSST disappears.

2) On October 28, 2019, unbeknownst to the community at large and NECA specifically, Chris Straka, representing the CCC, directly contacted Counsellor King via email recommending the following: "The CCC recommends an immediate change to the Dogs-in-Parks Designation for New Edinburgh Park from “Dogs Allowed” to “Dogs on Leash”, throughout the entire park, at all times of the day and in all seasons.” This is unusual for two reasons: 1) it is clear that CCC far exceeded its limits of authority, and 2) CCC saw fit to undertake this communication without due communication with NECA, and most importantly, the key people affected, i.e. the dog owners;

3) Praise is due to Counsellor King's office for informing Chris Straka of the process, which in fact reflects our understanding that NECA is in charge; NECA should formally acknowledge that it is aware of King’s response of Jan 22, 2020 and that it will work with CCC and the Community to understand and potentially address any safety concerns that the CCC may have around the Fieldhouse;

4) NECA should formally minute its instruction to CCC that it should not undertake to communicate directly to the City regarding issues that affect our community.

5) CCC should be asked to formally withdraw its communications to the City;

5) Finally, caution is warranted to make a problem where in the eyes of many, there was no problem.

In summary, the parks are enjoyed by one and all. Dog owners in particular come from within and beyond our community to enjoy the opportunity of walking their dogs off leash. The park has become an interactive place that allows for the elderly, children, walkers, athletes and dogs to interact in a normal, healthy way. There will be times of friction but this is a normal learning experience and only serves to augment social interaction at all levels - which is a GOOD thing. We do not want to over-manage - remember the shoe bomber - one shoe bomber and the entire world has to remove their shoes to board an airplane. This is not what we want. In my own case, invariably, parents and children run up to me/my dog asking if they pet it - all good.

  

I have attached the documentation that we received from Chris Straka pertaining to this issue.

Gosse B. Bruinsma MD

go...@bruinsma.eu.com

+1 (613) 866 9609

[Steve Grabner]

Gouse,

Dogs were in the playground, on soccer fields, splash pad, and baseball diamond long before the CSST. Sadly, a lot of irresponsible dog owners do not manage their dogs and let me run and blind to their dog droppings. 

I had the pleasure to remove dog faces from shoes and clothing from using the sports fields, and had the pleasure of removing dog feces from the skating rink.

Sadly we need signs informing people of their responsibilities of owning a dog, and yes the park should be enjoyed by everyone. 

Steve

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On Feb 16, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Cindy Parkanyi <cpar...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

HI Katherine,

There has always been a bit of grey area regarding the scope of the 3Cs' mandate. NECA's position is that any issue concerning the community writ large (i.e. not simply operations of the Fieldhouse and its environs) should at a minimum be consulted with the NECA Board, who can provide counsel as to whether further consultations should be undertaken before bringing requests to the City.  This was the case recently with the three associations coming together on the request for enhancements to the Fieldhouse. Unfortunately, this is not what happened this time.

In addition, there has been a lack of clarity regarding the scope of the 3Cs' request.  For these reasons, we have set aside time on this Tuesday's NECA agenda (see attached) to discuss the issue and have asked the Councillor or someone from his office who knows about the off-leash areas of the park and related by-laws to attend the meeting.  We hope to find an appropriate way to address the safety concerns regarding dogs in and around the playground and Fieldhouse without restricting our existing off-leash areas.

Cindy 

On Sunday, February 16, 2020, 07:21:24 p.m. EST, Katherine Hall <kath...@pikorua.co> wrote:

Cindy, may I get some clarification from you? It has come up twice now and I just wanted to be sure. Gosse mentioned and the implication from Susan Ong's response to Chris’s email is that the CCC is in charge for the fieldhouse, but they don’t speak for the community beyond that scope. 

Could you clarify the mandates for me? 

Thanks

Katherine

On Feb 14, 2020, at 5:10 PM, Christopher Straka <ch...@straka.ca> wrote:

Katherine,

Thank you for sharing your concerns with me on Tuesday evening and for taking a leadership role in representing the interests of some of our neighbours.  

As I explained when we met, the CCC meeting was canceled by the executive members because there were no items on our agenda that required a face to face meeting.  Had we received notice that you and a delegation of people were interested in speaking with the CCC executive group, we would certainly have all been at the Fieldhouse.  In retrospect, I regret that the CCC did not remove the meeting notice from the NewEdinburgh.ca (NECA’s) events calendar or post a notice on the door of the Fieldhouse indicating that the meeting had been cancelled.  

To this message I have attached copies of: 

the minutes of the CCC's October and November meetings, both of which contain references to dogs (see item 5.1.3.);

the message sent on behalf of the CCC to Councillor King on October 28, 2019; and,

a reply received from Councillor King’s staff (Susan Ong) on January 22, 2020.

Over the course of our hour together I came to understand that some (if not all) of those in attendance on Tuesday disagree with the approach the CCC took to address some of our members’ concern with off-leash dogs.  My understanding is that the primary concern of your delegation was a perception that the CCC was seeking to eliminate the off-leash dog area in Stanley Park (downstream of the forested area next to the sports fields).  Further, I understand that a secondary concern of the group was the prospect of additional bylaw enforcement in New Edinburgh Park and Stanley Park.  

I trust that everyone in attendance on Tuesday shares the CCC's concern for the safety of park users, especially children in the vicinity of the Fieldhouse and the surrounding park space where the majority of CCC activities occur.  In addition, the CCC has an interest in maintaining the perception of a safe environment in the mind of prospective Fieldhouse renters so as to maintain the organization’s primary source of income.  It is for these reasons that the CCC made the recommendations outlined in the letter sent to Councillor King last fall.  

Please contact me at your convenience should you wish to explore ways that we can work together to maintain the safety of all New Edinburgh Park users.   

Sincerely,

Chris

Christopher Straka

President
Crichton Community Council (CCC)

New Edinburgh Park Fieldhouse

203 Stanley Avenue . Ottawa . K1M 1P2
CrichtonComm...@gmail.com 

NEFiel...@gmail.com (Fieldhouse) 
www.CrichtonCommunityCouncil.com
@NEFieldhouse (Twitter)

@CrichtonCommunityCouncil (Facebook)

<CCC Minutes 2019 October.pdf>

<CCC Minutes 2019 November.pdf>

<New Edinburgh Park Fieldhouse dogs on leash message to Councillor King 191028.pdf>

<New Edinburgh Park Fieldhouse dogs on leash message from Susan Ong 200122.pdf>

Begin forwarded message:

From: Katherine Hall <kath...@pikorua.co>

Subject: Re: Communications

Date: February 12, 2020 at 8:12:42 PM EST

To: Christopher Straka <ch...@straka.ca>

Cc: Nicole Poitras <npla...@hotmail.com>

I have Nicole’s address incorrectly in that email. I am assuming that you have her correctly as a npla...@hotmail.com’, not a npla...@hotmail.com.

On Feb 12, 2020, at 8:08 PM, Katherine Hall <kath...@pikorua.co> wrote:

As discussed last night, please forward all the communication that has been sent and received with either our counsellor or the city in regards to the reassessment or any related issues arising in park. If there are other emails that you think are relevant, please include those as well.

As we do not have a full understanding to the scope of the exchanges, please err on the side of more rather than less.

I hope you will be able to send these along before the weekend so we can process the information and situation quickly. If not, please let us know when we can expect them.

Thanks

Katherine 

mother to Quinn and Owen

owner of Ghost and Loki

202 Ivy Crescent

Begin forwarded message:

From: Katherine Hall <kath...@pikorua.co>

Subject: Communications

Date: February 12, 2020 at 8:08:16 PM EST

To: Christopher Straka <ch...@straka.ca>

Cc: ka...@marcommetrics.com, KatherineN <Katheri...@cra-arc.gc.ca>, jgo...@gmail.com, juliami...@gmail.com, jma...@cmhc-schl.gc.ca, cote....@gmail.com, g...@ciurem.com, jjmb...@sympatico.ca, antoine...@yahoo.com, mnba...@hotmail.com, npla...@hotmail.com, paul....@international.gc.ca, Katherine Hall <kath...@manaiakoru.com>, kath...@pikorua.co, Cindy Parkanyi <cpar...@yahoo.ca>, ric...@marcommetrics.com

As discussed last night, please forward all the communication that has been sent and received with either our counsellor or the city in regards to the reassessment or any related issues arising in park. If there are other emails that you think are relevant, please include those as well.

As we do not have a full understanding to the scope of the exchanges, please err on the side of more rather than less.

I hope you will be able to send these along before the weekend so we can process the information and situation quickly. If not, please let us know when we can expect them.

Thanks

Katherine 

mother to Quinn and Owen

owner of Ghost and Loki

202 Ivy Crescent

<2020-02-18_NECA Board  Agenda.docx>

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[Mira Culham]

Well stated; thank you!

Mira Culham

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:19 AM Gosse Bruinsma <go...@bruinsma.eu.com> wrote:

[Corry Burke]

And, sadly, I've had the pleasure of removing crack pipes and cleaning vomit off of slides so our children could play. A lot of irresponsible people incapable of managing themselves. Not to mention the unregulated parties that just popup randomly throughout the summer in the park, along with the literal piles of garbage that get left behind.

It is a mix up of people and interests and experiences. Everyone does their best to navigate them the best they can and still enjoy the experience. Cherry picking user groups does nothing but pit people against each other.

Corry Burke

Father of Cason , Colby, Danan, Jaxon

Owner of Pitcher (former), Joey

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Mon., 17 Feb. 2020 at 10:29 a.m., Steve Grabner

<steve....@gmail.com> wrote:

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/new-ed-talk/CA%2B8m7NES97QsyYZA8JgF7ozSHpV2qhK_kDaC1sEEMoL3sW0JTA%40mail.gmail.com

.

[Janet Uren]

I strongly support what Gosse has to say. Living in a community means balancing all interests and the approach made by one group to the city without due regard for other users of the park is highly anti-social. I would like to be informed about this as it goes farther so that I can make my views known. I am writing today to the counsellor as a private citizen. Sincerely, Janet Uren

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:19 AM Gosse Bruinsma <go...@bruinsma.eu.com> wrote:

[Lynn Townsend]

For what its worth I agree as well. I have been walking my dog in this park for years and never bothered a soul. Perhaps the playground can be better delineated. 

Lynn Townsend

Sent from my iPhone

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[Steve Grabner]

Janet,

The CCC has raised and contributed at a lot of money in the refurbishment of the playground. It was responsible WEB structure and 75,000 dollars for the new playground, getting the splash pad, etc.   It runs programs for the community and thus does have a voice to the city. The program which ran last year over the summer which ran camps for cycling is not coming back to our community because of past incidents with dogs in the park. Their program rented the sports fields and fieldhouse. 

So if you believe that the community should be inclusive, then that also means the right to speak. The safety of the playground is a valid concern raised by the CCC.

PS. Most dogs owners are responsible. Sadly, a few bad owners cause rules to be created.

Steve

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[Janet Uren]

[ROSEMARIE TOVELL]

Way to go Gosse and Janet! I am currently dogless but I have ALWAYS supported our park as an off leash dog park. 
Rosemarie & Quipu’s spirit. 

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 17, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Janet Uren <Janet...@wordimage.ca> wrote:



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[Janet Uren]

Clearly, the park belongs to the community as a whole -- not to the CCC and not to the dog-walkers. So we have a duty to behave respectfully to each other and, when issues arise, to commit ourselves to solving problems and achieving the right balance of uses. No persons have the right, unilaterally, to exclude such long-term traditional users as the dog-owners from the park because they think  their issues and desires are more important than those of others; by the same token, dog-walkers cannot  act to exclude children. That is why this unilateral approach to the city is so sad, so disrespectful and so annoying.  I am also concerned about the troubling tendency, when particular issues arise, to punish a whole community.  Janet Uren

[Julia]

It seems like the CCC did an end run around the rest of the community.  I have lived across from the park (between Union and Stanley)for  a decade and have never encountered issues with dogs harassing children. And no one consulted me or my immediate neigbours as far as I know, on this rather draconian step. This is overreach, the CCC speaks for a small special interest group, it does not speak for me and all the other dog walkers in the neighbourhood.

Julia

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 17, 2020, at 5:14 PM, Janet Uren <janet...@wordimage.ca> wrote:



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[Steve Grabner]

Cindy or Councilor,

Prior or during tonight's meeting, could I get answer to the following questions:

Q1) It is my understanding that dogs are not allowed in playgrounds or splash pads, please correct me if I am wrong. Does that rule also apply to outdoor rinks?

Q2) If I see violations of the above rule, such dogs roaming or excrement in the playground, splashpad, or outdoor rink, what do I do? Do I take a picture and file a complaint to the city?

Q3) Are dogs allowed on sports fields, exercise areas, or tennis courts?

Q4) What is the score for Dogs in the park designation for the our park?

PS. I am not a member of the CCC or NECA. I am user of the park and I volunteer maintaining the outdoor rinks. I did have a dog previously and used the park, and most likely will have a dog in the future. 

Steve Grabner

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[Ricardo Rodriguez]

Hello,

 

In my opinion the dogs are not the problem, are the irresponsible dog owners. Some other dog lovers had provide very good ideas.

 

Key points on the use of DNA registers to tackle irresponsible dog owners:

• DNA testing can theoretically be used to link a given dog and its owner to a faecal sample (eg from dog foul found in public places) or saliva found on the carcase of dead livestock found in the outdoors
• Such an association derived solely from DNA testing in itself, does not prove the owner has not picked up after their dog, nor that a given dog has attacked or killed a farm animal
• DNA testing is also entirely reliant on the offending owner having submitted their dog's DNA onto a register; if the dog's DNA is not registered no enforcement measures can be taken
• There are significant financial costs associated with a DNA testing programme
• Experience of compliance with dog collar and tag legislation in the UK and statutory dog licensing in Northern Ireland, suggests a significant proportion of dog owners would not register their dog's DNA, substantially limiting the potential impact of a DNA testing programme
• There are a number of alternative, more cost effective measures available to local councils to reduce the impact of irresponsible dog owners, including responsible dog owner days and poster campaigns

 

 

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/our-resources/kennel-club-campaigns/compulsory-dna-registers/

 

 

The reason to have a dog on a leash is for security, kids, elderly people, bikers and other NO dog lovers. The dog owners should consider take care of their pets, when they are close to the playground, just for health risk to the kids. A dog is a companion a pet or your love, it is not a kid, and my guess is you won’t let your dog eat a poop of another dog.

 

There a plenty space for all, not to mention that there is a “Stanley Dog Park”, at least on Google. My suggestion is – “If you are an irresponsible dog owner, please be a reasonable dog owner. Believe me, your dog won’t need a psychiatrist if is on a leash for a few moments”.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

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[Janet Uren]

Food for thought. At the risk of making a dozen people I've never met hate me, may I offer two articles that might at least suggest that this issue is not as straightforward as it seems. The first study, re the benefits of dog-ownership, involved 3.4 million people, which is kind of "wow." 

https://time.com/5028171/health-benefits-owning-dog/ 

 https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/beastly-behavior/201608/yes-overprotective-parenting-harms-kids 

I have not heard of any child being attacked by a dog so I assume that is not the issue. On the other hand, there has been a lot of talk about feces in the playground. But honestly I don't know of any dog-walker in the park who would dream of letting their dogs defecate anywhere near the playground, which is a good distance from the off-leash area, or would fail to clean up if an accident did happen. But of course people do come from other places who have less investment in the park. There isn't much we can do about that except, as someone suggested, build a fence. Anyway, I wonder if all this really comes from something quite different: the fact that the world is divided between people who love dogs and people who don't and who, in fact, fear them. This is especially sad in a world where parents should want to teach their children to know and respect other species if we are all going to survive. I know there was a bicycle clinic in the park last year; it would be nice, wouldn't it?, to have instead a clinic to introduce children to dogs, teach them to be careful and to treat them respectfully and, yes, teach them to like dogs. I think that would be a wonderful part of a potential solution. 

Anyway, now that half the world at least is mad at me, I think I will conclude with a heartfelt hope that some good result can come out of this conflict. 

Janet Uren

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:19 AM Gosse Bruinsma <go...@bruinsma.eu.com> wrote:

[Alain-Rémi Lajeunesse]

I am a proud father and dog owner.

I love all of my kids, human or pet.  However, I am a parent first and foremost.  

My children love dogs, but when strange dogs run up to them, even to give them a friendly lick, it makes them apprehensive.  Me too.  

My kids play in the park every day outside winter months, and it is not uncommon for rogue dogs to run onto the field, followed shortly by a half apologetic owner pulling the dog away from an anxious or scared child.

Though it is pleasant to read an article about the benefits of the choice I’ve made to have a dog, this ignores the reality that some people just don’t want to meet your dog, especially little people.  

Specific phobias are a real thing, and I certainly don’t want my neighbours to start making uninformed psychotherapeutic recommendations for addressing that fear.

We need to respect each other’s fears.

Though I think the status quo can work, there is certainly some room on making signage and enforcement better.

In the meantime, Fergus will continue to be on leash through the park until he gets to Stanley park.

Alain

Envoyé de mon iPhone/
Sent from my iPhone

Le 19 févr. 2020 à 15:53, Janet Uren <janet...@wordimage.ca> a écrit :



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