Neuros LINK 1.3 vs 1.0 performance

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Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 15, 2010, 3:59:27 PM10/15/10
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I was just hoping to get some feedback on the performance of the new
Intel based LINK 1.3 compared to the old ATI based 1.0 hardware. Is
flash playback when scaled up to 1080p smooth? Has anybody tried
running Meego on it? I am very interested in the prospect of playing
around with meego as an alternative interface.

I am just trying to gauge whether it would be worth it to switch to
the new setup. Along the same lines is there still a plan to support
the ati hardware with a new firmware release? I have tried to run
both ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10 as well as linux mint of the same base,
but keep running into the following bug.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/572279

Since the last time I checked there are comments about it being
related to plymouth. I also noticed this bug today:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/538310

They mention deleting the quietsplash bootoption. I will give that a
shot tonight. I am hoping that the newer software stack might help
performance.

Joe Born

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Oct 15, 2010, 8:12:31 PM10/15/10
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On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Jeremy Coleman
<jeremy.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just hoping to get some feedback on the performance of the new
> Intel based LINK 1.3 compared to the old ATI based 1.0 hardware.  Is
> flash playback when scaled up to 1080p smooth?  Has anybody tried
> running Meego on it?  I am very interested in the prospect of playing
> around with meego as an alternative interface.

Flash playback is smooth to my eyes to 1080p. Its much better than
either ATI or nVidia (which were comparable IMHO). I haven't touched
Meego, nor talked with anyone that has. I had netbook remix on mine
for a while, but I moved to 64bit to ostensibly better video
performance, although I think you have to really get up there on
bitrates and files to see a difference.

>
> I am just trying to gauge whether it would be worth it to switch to
> the new setup.  Along the same lines is there still a plan to support
> the ati hardware with a new firmware release?  I have tried to run
> both ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10 as well as linux mint of the same base,
> but keep running into the following bug.

Chad is working on a 10.04 release for ATI, and was hoping to finish
this weekend if memory serves.

Chad Vincent

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Oct 16, 2010, 2:03:19 PM10/16/10
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Heh... Yeah, I hope to get that started tonight. I'm going to see if
the default Ubuntu drivers are sufficient for at least 720p flash /
Boxee on the nVidia and ATi both, and then submit the image to Joe for
testing on the Intel units. That way we can unify the images instead
of having to generate a new image for each hardware version.

Will likely swap to the Netbook UI on 10.04LTS x64, unless someone has
a suggestion for something else?

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 19, 2010, 1:39:07 AM10/19/10
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Removing quiet splash from the boot options allows the system to boot
fine. The default video driver seems a little lackluster on hulu
fullscreen with a desktop resolution set at 720p. It is pretty solid,
but there seems to be some slight framerate issues as well as some
graphical glitches in refreshing. In my case it may be related to
system resources though since I am currently booting off a standard
ubuntu image flashed onto a usb drive with unetbootin. My current
scenarion puts almost all of the RAM into use to load up the "live"
image.

Stelios Valavanis

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Oct 19, 2010, 10:22:09 AM10/19/10
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don't you think an upgrade option for a hard drive (and dvd-rom) would be a
good idea? i upgraded these on my own and don't have any such performance
issues with hulu. of course i can play dvds too. the mounting kit bits were
extremely useful for the dvd-rom btw. i'm very glad that was offered. you can
get small HDs for $20 now and DVD-roms for as much too (i paid $11 for a PATA
one).

--
_____________________________________________
stel valavanis http://www.onshore.com/

Chad Vincent

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Oct 19, 2010, 12:35:47 PM10/19/10
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There's the 2TB upgrade option, but maybe just a tiny-drive upgrade
wouldn't be a bad idea.

The problem with a DVD-ROM drive is that people would expect it to
play DVDs out of the box, and that would either cost a license fee for
Linux playback software, or make the user find how-tos to get around
CSS.

Stelios Valavanis

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Oct 19, 2010, 1:15:49 PM10/19/10
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no, not at all. just two commands and you get the medibuntu repositories added
and the decss libraries installed along with codecs.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu

these are the commands

sudo wget --output-document=/etc/apt/sources.list.d/medibuntu.list
http://www.medibuntu.org/sources.list.d/$(lsb_release -cs).list && sudo apt-
get --quiet update && sudo apt-get --yes --quiet --allow-unauthenticated
install medibuntu-keyring && sudo apt-get --quiet update

then

sudo apt-get install libdvdcss2 w64codecs

makes a great dvd player imho and reduces the number of devices and the need
for a switcher.

Yves Pelletier

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Oct 19, 2010, 1:18:32 PM10/19/10
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Can you tell me the dvd drive you use?

I tried few from some laptops, and they all have the same problem,
they don't open or close well (have to adjust small screws)

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Stelios Valavanis

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Oct 19, 2010, 1:34:47 PM10/19/10
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from /proc

Vendor: Optiarc Model: CD-RW CRX880A

but basically any "slim" dvd-rom drive will work. they are fairly standard. i
don't know why you had the problems you had. mine ejects properly by command
(from mythtv which is my player) and manually as well.

Joe Born

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Oct 19, 2010, 2:03:53 PM10/19/10
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yes, a dvd rom is indeed probably a decent option.
Joe Born
Neuros Technology Intl., LLC 
twitter: http://twitter.com/neurostech
jb...@neurostechnology.com
IRC:  #neuros (freenode.net)
Skype: JoeBorn
cell: 773-442-2676 (US)
cell: 86-136-40134556 (China)

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 19, 2010, 3:30:04 PM10/19/10
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So with the 1.0 hardware and a hdd installed you don't have any
problems with hulu playback at a 1080p desktop resolution?
> stel valavanis  http://www.onshore.com/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Stelios Valavanis

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Oct 19, 2010, 4:08:54 PM10/19/10
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i have definitely played back 720p which is what was initially brought up. i
don't think i have any 1080p to test with. can anybody point me to some? is
there any on hulu? i might have a 1080p file from a bluray rip. i'll have to
get back to you.

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 19, 2010, 6:06:09 PM10/19/10
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The actual content is not 1080p, but the desktop resolution is 1080p
which means the video gets scaled up. The 720p hulu playback is in
reference to using the open source driver included by default in
Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx. I can play hulu scaled to 720p just fine
with the proprietary ati drivers. I don't have issues with system
memory consumption on the standard LINK firmware, just with the quick
unetbootin install I did to test 10.04. As I mentioned this is most
likely due to the "live" nature of the install. Since the whole
system is loaded into RAM I have over 700MB in use after boot compared
to about 200MB with a standard install.
> > > stel valavanis  http://www.onshore.com/-Hide quoted text -

Stelios Valavanis

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Oct 19, 2010, 6:38:35 PM10/19/10
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ah, yes i am at 1080p using the HDMI output but i have an nvidia video
(mboard) which was a later model than yours though i think now joe's moved or
moving to intel. btw i'm happy with intel graphics on other boxes. now i might
also have added ram, i don't now but i'm showing 2.5GB ram which is probably
3GB with some used for shared memory (thought nvidia was always discrete so
maybe it really is 2.5GB - don't want to bust it open for y'all right now).

anyway you get it.

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 19, 2010, 9:01:29 PM10/19/10
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Yeah I think the nvidia boards have slightly better performance due to drivers.  The link v1.0 came stock with 1GB of ram and I don't see any change on the wiki as far as included ram so I would expect it is the same.  http://wiki.neurostechnology.com/index.php/Neuros_LINK_technical_specifications

The intel setup is what I'm considering upgrading to, but I'm just trying to weigh my options right now.  It's a dual core processor and Intel seems to really be making progress with their open source video drivers.

Joe - Looking at the motherboard on newegg it doesn't appear that there is n spdif (optical) audio port.  Is this correct?  I don't have HDMI on my audio receiver so the optical is key for me to be able to use the LINK for playing my music library without requiring the TV to be on.

Stelios Valavanis

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Oct 19, 2010, 10:57:22 PM10/19/10
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it's just totally ridiculous to me that you need so much power just to play
some video. it's all because of flash. when will it die? that's what we need. a
whole bunch of media players will bust out when html5 or something finally
kills flash. i really hate it.

as much as apple annoys me, kudos to them for ignoring flash on their many
devices.

On Tuesday, October 19, 2010 08:01:29 pm Jeremy Coleman wrote:
> Yeah I think the nvidia boards have slightly better performance due to
> drivers. The link v1.0 came stock with 1GB of ram and I don't see any
> change on the wiki as far as included ram so I would expect it is the same.
>
> http://wiki.neurostechnology.com/index.php/Neuros_LINK_technical_specificat
> ions
>

> <http://wiki.neurostechnology.com/index.php/Neuros_LINK_technical_specifica
> tions>The intel setup is what I'm considering upgrading to, but I'm just

Victor Marks

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Oct 20, 2010, 12:27:34 AM10/20/10
to neu...@googlegroups.com, neu...@googlegroups.com
"flash memory? We love flash memory!"

Read: adobe flash is dead to me.

Sent from my iPhone 5

Joe Born

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Oct 20, 2010, 12:33:55 AM10/20/10
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Joe - Looking at the motherboard on newegg it doesn't appear that there is n spdif (optical) audio port.  Is this correct?  I don't have HDMI on my audio receiver so the optical is key for me to be able to use the LINK for playing my music library without requiring the TV to be on.


it does have coax spdif, foxconn has a lot of similiar MBs, but this one has spdif. 

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 20, 2010, 9:37:39 AM10/20/10
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I guess I will have to check for a version with hdmi and optical.  I saw that it had the coax out, but I don't think I have an available coax input.  I guess I may gave to pull my entertainment center away from the wall and check. ;)  Interestingly I had to teach a friend about digital signals a few years ago when some idiot employee at best buy had him convinced that there is a quality difference between optical or coaxial spdif.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Joe Born <jb...@neurostechnology.com> wrote:
Joe - Looking at the motherboard on newegg it doesn't appear that there is n spdif (optical) audio port.  Is this correct?  I don't have HDMI on my audio receiver so the optical is key for me to be able to use the LINK for playing my music library without requiring the TV to be on.


it does have coax spdif, foxconn has a lot of similiar MBs, but this one has spdif. 

--

Victor Marks

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Oct 20, 2010, 10:55:10 AM10/20/10
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Jeremy,

You can see why someone would think there could be a quality
difference between optical and coax spdif: the entry on Wikipedia
seems to indicate that coaxial is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

There's a bandwidth difference and a jitter issue.

coax = 500MHz, optical = 6MHz

Home theater forums seem to say that the differences are a non-issue,
that jitter is un-hearable and 6MHz is enough for anybody, but it's
not hard to see how someone could draw the conclusion that one is
better than the other.

Victor

Joe Born

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Oct 20, 2010, 10:56:38 AM10/20/10
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sorry, I missed that you needed optical.   Well, it seems a commonly held belief among many high end folks that there's a quality belief between the two, I think they like coax but not optical.  I think they rely on a lot of the black magic aspects to fight margin pressure on what should be commodity items.

Chad Vincent

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Oct 20, 2010, 12:25:55 PM10/20/10
to Neuros
Installing the DeCSS libraries in the US without paying licensing fees
is illegal. We cannot preload them, nor provide explicit instructions
for doing so.

Medibuntu specifically says that most of its packages are not allowed
in certain regions due to patents, etc.

On Oct 19, 1:15 pm, Stelios Valavanis <s...@onshore.com> wrote:
> no, not at all. just two commands and you get the medibuntu repositories added
> and the decss libraries installed along with codecs.
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu
>
> these are the commands
>
> sudo wget --output-document=/etc/apt/sources.list.d/medibuntu.listhttp://www.medibuntu.org/sources.list.d/$(lsb_release-cs).list && sudo apt-

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 20, 2010, 12:53:07 PM10/20/10
to Neuros
Yes I know that there are technical differences, but in standard
consumer grade audio and particularly with dolby digital and dts
(which are self timing) there really won't be any differences.
Despite the coax supporting more bandwidth I have found optical to be
much better in areas that are electrically noisy since you don't have
to worry about ground loop intereference. It all comes down to
upsells and misinformed tech sales reps at the box stores.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/Neuros- Hide quoted text -

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 20, 2010, 12:54:43 PM10/20/10
to Neuros
Aren't us copyright laws wonderful! :(

On Oct 20, 10:25 am, Chad Vincent <hiromas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Installing the DeCSS libraries in the US without paying licensing fees
> is illegal.  We cannot preload them, nor provide explicit instructions
> for doing so.
>
> Medibuntu specifically says that most of its packages are not allowed
> in certain regions due to patents, etc.
>
> On Oct 19, 1:15 pm, Stelios Valavanis <s...@onshore.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > no, not at all. just two commands and you get the medibuntu repositories added
> > and the decss libraries installed along with codecs.
>
> >https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu
>
> > these are the commands
>
> > sudo wget --output-document=/etc/apt/sources.list.d/medibuntu.listhttp://www.medibuntu.org/sources.list.d/$(lsb_release-cs).list&& sudo apt-
> > stel valavanis  http://www.onshore.com/- Hide quoted text -

Stelios Valavanis

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Oct 20, 2010, 12:58:59 PM10/20/10
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i saw some people walking around with t-shirts on that have the whole decss
code printed on them. i think a band used it as song lyrics too.

Jeremy Coleman

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Oct 20, 2010, 1:14:40 PM10/20/10
to Neuros
Now that's just plain excellent!

Victor Marks

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Oct 20, 2010, 3:02:58 PM10/20/10
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There's a professor at a University in the US cataloging and
displaying these uses on his University website, essentially daring
the MPAA to pursue legal action against an academic with the support
of the University behind him.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/

Jeremy Coleman

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Nov 23, 2010, 11:21:14 PM11/23/10
to Neuros
Just thought I'd heck to see if there's any progress on that new
firmware release for the 1.0 hardware.
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