Network Ledger Technology: The First 15 Years

[Michiel de Jong]

Welcome to this mailinglist! With the title, "Network Money', I tried to keep the  subject broad, but centered around "money transfer without money movement", like we see in networks of ledgers, when they support multi-hop money transactions.

Please post your topics about projects you're working on, questions you run into, books you read, or interviews you enjoyed, and start a discussion!

My blogpost in which I announced the creation of this mailing list is here:

https:/michielbdejong.com/blog/21.html

Enjoy, and don't forget to subscribe to this mailing list!

Cheers,

Michiel

[Stanislas Polu]

Hi!

Very interesting post.

This might be of interest to you: https://web.archive.org/web/20180313200319/https://settle.network/

As a fully working implementation exists here: https://github.com/spolu/settle

Looking forward to interesting discussions here!

-stan

[Michiel de Jong]

Ah, great, and thanks for joining this mailing list! I had SettleNetwork on my list of NLT projects, but since the settle.network website was down, I didn't investigate it well enough. Thanks for sending the archive link! I updated my blogpost to mention SettleNetwork as a purely message-based NLT system. I'll also play around with it and think a bit about the trade-offs in your approach to routing!

Cheers,

Michiel.

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[Stanislas Polu]

Great! Let me know if I can help setting up a mint back online as I've
stopped the last one unfortunately a couple months ago.

Cheers,

-stan

[Dima Chizhevsky]

geoprotocol.io might be also interesting for you

четвер, 15 листопада 2018 р. 09:48:22 UTC+1 користувач Michiel de Jong написав:

[Michiel de Jong]

Awesome, I didn't know geoprotocol yet. Thanks for the link!

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[Aniket Kate]

Thanks for the list. I enjoy this topic a lot, and believe that it need more attention.

My students and I have been looking into the privacy acceptance of credit networks. We also built a Solidity contract to understand it better. See our efforts at https://transitive.network/

I also wrote a more non-academic article in that direction at https://medium.com/@aniketkate/towards-a-tokenless-iou-credit-network-realization-in-ethereum-a512e11dcf5e

Looking for possible collaborations.

--Aniket

Prof. Aniket Kate
CS, Purdue University
https://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/akate/

[Nikander Pekka]

Hi Aniket,

Interesting.  How does your credit network differ from Trustlines?  https://trustlines.network

(They web site seems to be down right now.  But here is a Medium post on it: https://medium.com/the-trustlines-network/trustlines-network-the-original-ripple-idea-built-on-ethereum-de162e640fa6 )

I've been following their efforts, but haven't seen much progress lately.

--Pekka Nikander

  https://people.aalto.fi/pekka.nikander

PS. With my new group at Aalto, we are looking at how to develop non-monetary compensation methods, and especially how to incentivise the production of non-rival and anti-rival production in an efficient manner.

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[Melvin Carvalho]

On Thursday, November 15, 2018 at 9:48:22 AM UTC+1, Michiel de Jong wrote:

Welcome to this mailinglist! With the title, "Network Money', I tried to keep the  subject broad, but centered around "money transfer without money movement", like we see in networks of ledgers, when they support multi-hop money transactions.

Please post your topics about projects you're working on, questions you run into, books you read, or interviews you enjoyed, and start a discussion!

Hi All

I worked a few years ago with Michiel on the opentabs project.  We created a working prototype. 

What I think I learnt was that in order to build trust in such an app having a settlement layer is desirable. 

I am now working on solidpay, the intersection of payments and solid.  Still early stages but hoping to make progress in 2019.

https://docs.solidpay.org/

I'd like to create a credit network that is REST based, but with settlement using block chain and lightning networks

The advantage of solid is that you can create complex software systems without needing to be technical or be a system admin. 

You just need some cloud storage, a web browser, and you're ready to go.

I hope this can lower the bar to participate in digital economies.

Melvin

[Aniket Kate]

Hello Pekka,

Please see my answers below.

Interesting.  How does your credit network differ from Trustlines?  https://trustlines.network

I am aware of this effort. Our wholesome goal is to perform transactions in a privacy-preserving manner. Also, I am not aware of their long term plans. 

(They web site seems to be down right now.  But here is a Medium post on it: https://medium.com/the-trustlines-network/trustlines-network-the-original-ripple-idea-built-on-ethereum-de162e640fa6 )

I've been following their efforts, but haven't seen much progress lately.

 I am unaware of their plans as well. 

--Pekka Nikander

  https://people.aalto.fi/pekka.nikander

PS. With my new group at Aalto, we are looking at how to develop non-monetary compensation methods, and especially how to incentivise the production of non-rival and anti-rival production in an efficient manner.

Sounds interesting. Do you already have some papers/techreports regarding this? 

--Aniket

[Nikander Pekka]

Hi Aniket, below.

PS. With my new group at Aalto, we are looking at how to develop non-monetary compensation methods, and especially how to incentivise the production of non-rival and anti-rival production in an efficient manner.

Sounds interesting. Do you already have some papers/techreports regarding this? 

We don't have published anything noteworthy yet.  However, the following give a good background, especially in the context of data markets.

https://web.stanford.edu/~chadj/JT_Data_slides.pdf

https://www.etla.fi/wp-content/uploads/ETLA-Working-Papers-53.pdf

http://www2.uvm.edu/giee/pubpdfs/Kemkes_2010_Ecological_Economics.pdf

https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01676881/document

http://evonomics.com/post-capitalism-entrepreneurship/

The main point is that data (and some other goods) are not only non-rival in Arrow's sense, but anti-rival in the sense that they gain value as they are used.  

We have hypothesised (in a position paper published in Finnish [1]) that anti-rival property may be a prime cause for the monopolistic levels of centralisation we see in the data markets.  That is, while it appears possible to clear the markets with money, i.e. the main rival compensation method we have, the resulting system appears to be inefficient.

Where we try to go then is to imagine anti-rival compensation methods.  That is not exactly easy.

[1] Nikander, Pekka; Mattila, Juri; Seppälä, Timo. "Kehittymättömät datamarkkinat johtavat Internetin keskittymiseen" / "Underdeveloped data markets lead to centralisation of the Internet"  In Finnish.  In Digibarometri 2018.   http://www.digibarometri.fi

--Pekka