File -> Page Setup
Wolfi
on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because some 250 million stubborn
Americans won't let go of their national measurement crap?
Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in the USA,
too.
Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
Wolfi
Geoff
Perhaps one (of several) reasons is that they have a sense of their
history and the self-confidence to assert it. We have a few "metric
martyrs" in the UK who have been prosecuted for refusing to sell goods in
metric measure who might envy them.
I can think of a few other medieval virtues which may find their last home
in the US, but this is not the place to go into them.
Geoff
------------------------------------------------------
Faustus : How comes it then that thou art out of hell?
Mephistophilis : Why this is hell, nor am I out of it.
us...@domain.invalid
measurement standards in the us is still the old school way
and printer paer is measured in inches....
Wolfi
> agreed metric is easier to deal with but unfortunately
> measurement standards in the us is still the old school way
> and printer paer is measured in inches....
>
Yep, but Mozilla isn't a US-only project and outside the US, where the
potential userbase by far outnumbers the ones in the USA, most countries use
printer paper in A4 format and this is mesuared in mm, not inches.
Wolfi
michael lefevre
obviously this isn't an argument that's going to be settled one way or
the other...
the solution would be to do what most other international apps do, and
support both measurement units. at least on Windows platforms, you can
even get the user's preferred measurement units from the system.
if there's not an RFE filed for this, maybe someone should file one...
--
michael
Peter Lairo
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:55:30 +0000, Wolfi wrote:
>>
>>USA, too.
>>
>>Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
>
> history and the self-confidence to assert it.
Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an ignorant,
not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why using the
meric system would be better.
They are quite happy and content living only in their own "world". I
guess that's OK. However, they neglect their communal (global) and
social responsibilities to make the world a better place for all - which
is perfectly in line with the Darwinian view on life there.
<ducks for cover>
--
Peter Lairo
Newsgroup for end-user discussion and peer support:
snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/netscape.mozilla.user.general
Mozilla Guide: http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/guide/
Peter Lairo
>
> obviously this isn't an argument that's going to be settled one way or
> the other...
>
> the solution would be to do what most other international apps do, and
> support both measurement units. at least on Windows platforms, you can
> even get the user's preferred measurement units from the system.
>
> if there's not an RFE filed for this, maybe someone should file one...
OH NO !!! A reasonable voice just halted what could have turned out to
be a fun and entertaining *flame war* :-D
Geoff
>> Perhaps one (of several) reasons is that they have a sense of their
>> history and the self-confidence to assert it.
>
> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an ignorant,
> not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why using the
> meric system would be better.
I did say one *of several* reasons.
> They are quite happy and content living only in their own "world". I
> guess that's OK. However, they neglect their communal (global) and
> social responsibilities to make the world a better place for all - which
> is perfectly in line with the Darwinian view on life there.
>
>
Americans do not need me to defend them, and this is not the right place
to do so, but we could have a long discussion about the comparative
efforts made by the US and the (laughable, metric), European Union to
shoulder their responsibilities for making the world a better place. Of
course a great deal depends on your definition of "better".
> <ducks for cover>
No need to duck from me. I am not out for a flame war. I would not have
posted at all if Wolfi had not intemperately referred to "national
measurement crap".
Ron Hunter
Peter Lairo wrote:
> Geoff wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:55:30 +0000, Wolfi wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in the
>>> USA, too.
>>>
>>> Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
>>
>>
>> Perhaps one (of several) reasons is that they have a sense of their
>> history and the self-confidence to assert it.
>
>
> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an ignorant,
> not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why using the
> meric system would be better.
>
> They are quite happy and content living only in their own "world". I
> guess that's OK. However, they neglect their communal (global) and
> social responsibilities to make the world a better place for all - which
> is perfectly in line with the Darwinian view on life there.
>
> <ducks for cover>
>
Some of us are equally comfortable with either system, but most US folks
figure the old system works, why go to the expense of changing
everything... Just a touch of Ludditeism...
--
Ron Hunter rphu...@charter.net
Inca
I agree!!! Especially in things like this (a program that is meant to be
spread around the world) it shouldn't be dependent of the US view of the
world... (Oh and besides: inches make no sense what so ever)
We Want Metric, We Want Metric...
(Is it in the localisation projects?)
--
Inca
Many questions are answered at http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/
Sailfish
The US has never been accused of being lemming-like. Think of it as
another small way we are exerting our leadership role ...
--
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Netscape 7 Help/Tips: http://techaholic.net/ns7.html
Web page validation: http://validator.w3.org
About Mozilla: http://www.mozilla.org
Wolfi
>
>
> The US has never been accused of being lemming-like. Think of it as
> another small way we are exerting our leadership role ...
And we non-Americans don't wanr to be dominated, ignored or patronized ;-)
BTW, why don't you count and deal with money also in the US-way, using 1/2s,
7/16th, 5/32s, 33/64th, tablespoons, cups, quarts and ounces if it's so much
better and more convenient than decimal?
To be consequent, then you really shouldn't calculate and use decimal based
maths in business or science, too.
The Romans had a nice system to calculate, too, why not use this one instead ;-)
Wolfi
Sailfish
> Sailfish wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The US has never been accused of being lemming-like. Think of it as
> > another small way we are exerting our leadership role ...
>
>
>
> And we non-Americans don't wanr to be dominated, ignored or patronized ;-)
I'm sorry, I missed that. Would you mind repeating it? :-)
>
> BTW, why don't you count and deal with money also in the US-way, using
> 1/2s, 7/16th, 5/32s, 33/64th, tablespoons, cups, quarts and ounces if
> it's so much better and more convenient than decimal?
Kidding aside, if it were up to the bureaucrats, the US would have been
forced to go metric years ago. I recall a diligent (and expensive)
effort California tried several years ago on our highways where they
re-did a bunch of road signs to have both miles and km on them. It never
caught on and they've since gone back to miles, mostly (although, I've
recently read where they're trying something new yet again, having to do
with replacing off-ramp exits that now have street names with numeric
ones which represent the distance from the border in the direction of
travel ... we'll see)
>
> To be consequent, then you really shouldn't calculate and use decimal
> based maths in business or science, too.
> The Romans had a nice system to calculate, too, why not use this one
> instead ;-)
Consistency was never one of our strong suits, either. We're a
multi-cultural, mono-linguistic, poly-measure nation. :_)
us...@domain.invalid
This whole thread reminds me of a conversation me and a buddy of mine
had a few nights ago about the new Harley Davidson V-Rod. A bike
designed and co-engineered by Porsche.
"Whatever will those Harley Davidson shops do when someone rolls in with
their V-Rod?" he said, "I'm sure they don't have metric tools"
David King
A Harley, of all things, being called a Metric Bike, that's good.
An interesting fact which I've never figured out comes from the
automotive world and its method of measuring tire sizes. The system
combines metric and imperial (along with a bit of math with the aspect
ratio expressed as a percentage). So a 205/60-15 tire can also be
expressed as 205mm/60%-15".
us...@domain.invalid wrote:
Sailfish
>
> A Harley, of all things, being called a Metric Bike, that's good.
>
> An interesting fact which I've never figured out comes from the
> automotive world and its method of measuring tire sizes. The system
> combines metric and imperial (along with a bit of math with the aspect
> ratio expressed as a percentage). So a 205/60-15 tire can also be
> expressed as 205mm/60%-15".
That is too funny! Tire size in metric, aspect ratio in percentage and
rim size in inches. Now I know why I could never remember what those
numbers really stood for.... hehehe
>
> us...@domain.invalid wrote:
> > This whole thread reminds me of a conversation me and a buddy of mine
> > had a few nights ago about the new Harley Davidson V-Rod. A bike
> > designed and co-engineered by Porsche.
> >
> > "Whatever will those Harley Davidson shops do when someone rolls in with
> > their V-Rod?" he said, "I'm sure they don't have metric tools"
> >
>
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
Or, more sensibly yet, have paper measures in points and picas.
Except then someone would want ciceros, I'm sure. . . . :-P
/b.
--
Mozilla end-user questions should be directed to:
* snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/netscape.mozilla.user.general
* snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/netscape.mozilla.user.win32
* snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/netscape.mozilla.user.mac
* snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/netscape.mozilla.user.unix
Note that you need to have SSL enabled and the port set to 563.
Sailfish
> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Wolfi sauntered in to
> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
> Or, more sensibly yet, have paper measures in points and picas.
>
> Except then someone would want ciceros, I'm sure. . . . :-P
cubits?
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
>
>> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Wolfi sauntered in to
>> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>>
>> > Why are some 6,250 million people forced to use those terrible medieval
>> > INCHES on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because some 250
>> > million stubborn Americans won't let go of their national measurement
>> > crap?
>> > Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in the
>> > USA, too.
>> >
>> > Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
>> >
>> > Wolfi
>>
>>
>> Or, more sensibly yet, have paper measures in points and picas.
>>
>> Except then someone would want ciceros, I'm sure. . . . :-P
>
> cubits?
OK, *that*'s just plain silly. . . .
Sailfish
> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Sailfish sauntered in to
> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
> > Brian Heinrich wrote:
> >
> >> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Wolfi sauntered in to
> >> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> >>
> >> Or, more sensibly yet, have paper measures in points and picas.
> >>
> >> Except then someone would want ciceros, I'm sure. . . . :-P
> >
> >
> > cubits?
>
>
> OK, *that*'s just plain silly. . . .
It's not wise to make light of God's measurement system, methinks? :-)
Brian Heinrich
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
>
>> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Sailfish sauntered in to
>> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>>
>> > Brian Heinrich wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Wolfi sauntered in to
>> >> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>> >>
>> >> > Why are some 6,250 million people forced to use those terrible
>> >> medieval
>> >> > INCHES on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because some
>> >> > 250 million stubborn Americans won't let go of their national
>> >> > measurement crap?
>> >> > Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in
>> >> > the USA, too.
>> >> >
>> >> > Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
>> >> >
>> >> > Wolfi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Or, more sensibly yet, have paper measures in points and picas.
>> >>
>> >> Except then someone would want ciceros, I'm sure. . . . :-P
>> >
>> >
>> > cubits?
>>
>>
>> OK, *that*'s just plain silly. . . .
>
> It's not wise to make light of God's measurement system, methinks? :-)
We're talking about printing to a piece of paper -- *not* building an ark
or a temple. :-P
Sailfish
> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Sailfish sauntered in to
> netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
>
> > Brian Heinrich wrote:
> >
> >> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Sailfish sauntered in to
> >> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> >>
> >> > Brian Heinrich wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Wolfi sauntered in to
> >> >> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> >> >>
> >> >> Or, more sensibly yet, have paper measures in points and picas.
> >> >>
> >> >> Except then someone would want ciceros, I'm sure. . . . :-P
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > cubits?
> >>
> >>
> >> OK, *that*'s just plain silly. . . .
> >
> >
> > It's not wise to make light of God's measurement system, methinks? :-)
>
>
> We're talking about printing to a piece of paper -- *not* building an ark
> or a temple. :-P
As I recall, He did some nifty scripting on some tablets too, no?
Geoff
> cubits?
I vote for ells
Geoff
Y!Fan
debate how the US system is right or wrong. State your wish that the
measurements be also provided in matric system, and leave it alone. I'm
sure there are plenty of places on the Internet where you can engage in
discussions about American leadership or arrogance.
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Cause we are independent lot. The peoples that originally came to
America did so to get away from persecution from the land they came
from. And one of the by products was that they didn't want to have
anything to do with association with the former opressors. This has
been ingrained in the American Psyche for Centuries.
I went to High school during the 60ties when we had to learn how to
convert metric to inches and back for solid/liquid measure higway/sea
travel and Temperature.
There was even an admendment proposed that was going to "force" us to
use the metric System. Unfortunately for the world, and Fortunately for
us; there was such an uproar, and constiyuents threatened to have any
congreesman that would support it recalled. be it Democrat or
Republican. So the idea was drop like a Hot Potato.
who knows eventually everyone may end up with the metric system. but;
not any time soon.
We already sell soft Drinks (coca cola, Pepsi, etc) in Liters. And most
food Products have both pounds/ounces and metric equivelent.
Autos built in USA use both Metric and SAE type Bolts, screws, Nuts and
so on.
Besides I don't see what the &*^% problem with using 81/2x11 inches or
11x14 paper you can near as much information on an A4 page. So you end
up using more paper and having to cut down even more trees using A4 than
US system.
I thought we went through this USA Bashing a while back and thought it subsided.
We are proud of the way we are. If you don't like it so be it. But don't
knock it. We have a lot more rights than many people in the world, and
our stuborn independence brought it about.
We are not perfect. But God s the only thing in the world I know of that is!
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |pjo...@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!
mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
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<http://vpea.exis.net>
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Mozilla itself or Netscape for that matter is not tied to US measure or A4.
That dpends upon the Print Driver that comes with the printer. All
printers within the past several years at least are capable of being set
to print at A4.
The print Driver for Hp's 990cse printer (at least on the Mac Platform)
when you first install it "ask" whether you want to use A4 or 8-1/2 x11
as your standard paper size.
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Peter Lairo wrote:
-------------------------snip-------------------------
> <ducks for cover>
>
> --
> Peter Lairo
>
> Newsgroup for end-user discussion and peer support:
> snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/netscape.mozilla.user.general
>
> Mozilla Guide: http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/guide/
You better duck your A** for cover.
In another portion of the thread I've already answered the reasons.
Its funny that we in The US of A always get critized for this and that.
Yet when a crisis comes up the US usually is the first one to send aid
or help out.
When countries tyranize other countries (for example Iraq). With the
possible exception of Great Britain we are the only country that has the
"balls" and are willing to do something to do about it even at the risk
of the lives of many young men and women willing to fight.
Each time I hear someone from other than the US knocking the US, It
makes my blood boil.
I think all of you need to buy a copy of Toby Keith's song Courtesy of
the Red, White, and, Blue (The Angry American) and listen to it carefully.
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Inca wrote:
-------------------------snip-------------------------
> We Want Metric, We Want Metric...
> (Is it in the localisation projects?)
> --
> Inca
> Many questions are answered at http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/
WE want US Measure!! WE want US Measure!!
michael lefevre
wrote:
>
>
> Wolfi wrote:
>>
>> Why are some 6,250 million people forced to use those terrible medieval INCHES
>> on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because some 250 million stubborn
>> Americans won't let go of their national measurement crap?
>>
>> Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in the USA,
>> too.
>>
>> Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
>
> America did so to get away from persecution from the land they came
> from. And one of the by products was that they didn't want to have
> anything to do with association with the former opressors. This has
> been ingrained in the American Psyche for Centuries.
and so great was the desire for independence that they retained the
imperial system of measures? so they could continue use the units of the
British empire that ruled them? right...
calling it "inch-pound" instead of "imperial" was the extent of the
independence - your units are still the ones of the British empire...
we've officially stopped using them over here as of a couple of years
ago, but they are still in wide use here...
--
michael
The Green Lantern
> Consistency was never one of our strong suits, either. We're a
> multi-cultural, mono-linguistic, poly-measure nation. :_)
God Bless America!!!
The Green Lantern
> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an ignorant,
> not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why using the
> meric system would be better.
Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
> They are quite happy and content living only in their own "world". I
> guess that's OK.
It's sure okay with me. I don't care much for the socialistic worldview
and political system of the Eurolefties, as well as the high taxes that
go with it.
However, they neglect their communal (global) and
> social responsibilities to make the world a better place for all - which
> is perfectly in line with the Darwinian view on life there.
Another poster said something about Americans not being "lemminglike". I
think that goes a long way to make the world a better place.
> <ducks for cover>
Hey, it's all in fun (isn't it?)
The Green Lantern
not doing that to their liking as well. :-)
JTK
>
>> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an
>> ignorant, not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why
>> using the meric system would be better.
>
>
> Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
> inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
>
Come on now, go easy on the non-Americans. Most of them can't even
speak English.
>
>
>> They are quite happy and content living only in their own "world". I
>> guess that's OK.
>
>
> It's sure okay with me. I don't care much for the socialistic worldview
> and political system of the Eurolefties, as well as the high taxes that
> go with it.
>
But you can't beat the warm beer! Well, except with cold beer.
>
> However, they neglect their communal (global) and
>
>> social responsibilities to make the world a better place for all -
>> which is perfectly in line with the Darwinian view on life there.
>
>
> Another poster said something about Americans not being "lemminglike". I
> think that goes a long way to make the world a better place.
>
As does a little ass-kicking from time to time, i.e. every time any part
of the rest of the world needs protection from this or that psycho dictator.
>
>> <ducks for cover>
>
>
> Hey, it's all in fun (isn't it?)
>
Only 'til somebody loses an eye fighting the Gerries.
David Eckard
wrote:
> The Green Lantern wrote:
> >
> >> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an
> >> ignorant, not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why
> >> using the meric system would be better.
> >
> >
> > Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
> > inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
> >
Boys, calm down. We don't use metric because we are too cheap to pay
the price to convert everything to it.... 50 billion at a minimum,
very minimum.
--
David Eckard
-----------------------------------------------------------
I haven't been ignoring you; I've been prioritizing you!
Webmaster http://www.billswoodshed.com
Webmaster http://www.ntrnet.net/~swordedg
-----------------------------------------------------------
Parish
masses:
> Come on now, go easy on the non-Americans. Most of them can't even
> speak English.
Oy! At least we can spell ;-)
>
> But you can't beat the warm beer! Well, except with cold beer.
I presume that by "warm beer" you are referring to Real Ale? The ideal
temperature for which is 55F, hardly warm!
--
If I buy a copy of WinDelete and it doesn't delete Windows,
am I entitled to my money back?
Anti-spam e-mail address, sorry for the inconvenience
Sailfish
> On 12/10/2002 01:30 JTK stood on a soap-box and preached to the unwashed
> masses:
>
> > Come on now, go easy on the non-Americans. Most of them can't even
> > speak English.
>
>
>
> Oy! At least we can spell ;-)
>
> >
> > But you can't beat the warm beer! Well, except with cold beer.
>
>
>
> I presume that by "warm beer" you are referring to Real Ale? The ideal
> temperature for which is 55F, hardly warm!
Oh yeah! Tell it to these guys ....
http://www.projectit.com/lat/multimedia/image/jpeg/bigbeerglasses.jpg
:_)
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
>
> Peter Lairo wrote:
> -------------------------snip-------------------------
>> <ducks for cover>
>>
>> --
>> Peter Lairo
>>
>> Newsgroup for end-user discussion and peer support:
>> snews://secnews.netscape.com:563/netscape.mozilla.user.general
>>
>> Mozilla Guide: http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/guide/
>
> You better duck your A** for cover.
>
> In another portion of the thread I've already answered the reasons.
>
> Its funny that we in The US of A always get critized for this and that.
>
> Yet when a crisis comes up the US usually is the first one to send aid
> or help out.
>
> When countries tyranize other countries (for example Iraq). With the
> possible exception of Great Britain we are the only country that has the
> "balls" and are willing to do something to do about it even at the risk
> of the lives of many young men and women willing to fight.
>
> Each time I hear someone from other than the US knocking the US, It
> makes my blood boil.
>
> I think all of you need to buy a copy of Toby Keith's song Courtesy of
> the Red, White, and, Blue (The Angry American) and listen to it carefully.
Phillip, *PLEASE* get a clue.
We're talkng about the metric system, *NOT* about trying to ensure one's
influence in a given region of the world (aided and abetted by the nation
within whose sphere of influence said region once fell).
And, y'know, no disprespect, but f*** the red, white, and blue -- and Toby
Keith, too. This asinine jingoistic buls*** p***es off a /lot/ of people.
'Sides which, I'm /far/ more likely to listen to Steve Earle. :-P
Parish
unwashed masses:
> Parish wrote:
>
> > On 12/10/2002 01:30 JTK stood on a soap-box and preached to the unwashed
> > masses:
> >
> > > Come on now, go easy on the non-Americans. Most of them can't even
> > > speak English.
> >
> >
> >
> > Oy! At least we can spell ;-)
> >
> > >
> > > But you can't beat the warm beer! Well, except with cold beer.
> >
> >
> >
> > I presume that by "warm beer" you are referring to Real Ale? The ideal
> > temperature for which is 55F, hardly warm!
>
> Oh yeah! Tell it to these guys ....
>
> http://www.projectit.com/lat/multimedia/image/jpeg/bigbeerglasses.jpg
>
ROFLMAO!!!
Sailfish, you just don't realize how funny that is. A few months ago
someone printed out that very picture and pinned it up in on the wall in
my local pub ( http://www.thelansdownearms.supanet.com/Gallery.html -
you really must come and have a pint with us!) with the comment "'tis
Parish" penned underneath because the guy on the left is a dead ringer
for me (when my face is buried in a beer glass).
> :_)
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
<snip />
> As does a little ass-kicking from time to time, i.e. every time any part
> of the rest of the world needs protection from this or that psycho
> dictator.
Hmm . . . y'know, this problem wouldn't arise if America weren't so f***ing
incompetent in its choice of military dictators and supported insurgents,
amongst whom Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden happen to spring pretty
quickly to mind right now.
I don't give a rat's a** if you have to lie in the bed of your own making,
but forcing the rest of the world to crawl into the same bed is
unadulterated bulls***.
<snip />
Sailfish
> On 12/10/2002 02:36 Sailfish stood on a soap-box and preached to the
> unwashed masses:
>
> > Parish wrote:
> >
> > > On 12/10/2002 01:30 JTK stood on a soap-box and preached to the
> > unwashed
> > > masses:
> > >
> > > > Come on now, go easy on the non-Americans. Most of them can't even
> > > > speak English.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oy! At least we can spell ;-)
> > >
> > > >
> > > > But you can't beat the warm beer! Well, except with cold beer.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I presume that by "warm beer" you are referring to Real Ale? The ideal
> > > temperature for which is 55F, hardly warm!
> >
> > Oh yeah! Tell it to these guys ....
> >
> > http://www.projectit.com/lat/multimedia/image/jpeg/bigbeerglasses.jpg
> >
>
> ROFLMAO!!!
>
> Sailfish, you just don't realize how funny that is. A few months ago
> someone printed out that very picture and pinned it up in on the wall in
> my local pub ( http://www.thelansdownearms.supanet.com/Gallery.html -
> you really must come and have a pint with us!) with the comment "'tis
> Parish" penned underneath because the guy on the left is a dead ringer
> for me (when my face is buried in a beer glass).
I thought *you'd* get a kick out of it. A nasa buddy of mine sent it to
me several years ago and he had got it from some visiting Aussies during
some make-nice international meeting :_)
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> On 12/10/2002 01:30 JTK stood on a soap-box and preached to the unwashed
> masses:
>
>> Come on now, go easy on the non-Americans. Most of them can't even
>> speak English.
>
>
> Oy! At least we can spell ;-)
>
>>
>> But you can't beat the warm beer! Well, except with cold beer.
>
>
> I presume that by "warm beer" you are referring to Real Ale? The ideal
> temperature for which is 55F, hardly warm!
That's OK, most Americans (and Canadians, too, I'm sorry to say) couldn't
tell the difference between lager and ale if you explained it to 'em. Of
course, most Americans (and Canadians, &c) drink some sorry excuse for lager
that would leave most people retching.
/b. (who's drinking a very nice Belgian-style ale from Québec at the moment
and quite enjoying it. . . .)
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> On 12/10/2002 02:36 Sailfish stood on a soap-box and preached to the
> unwashed masses:
>
>> Parish wrote:
>>
>> > On 12/10/2002 01:30 JTK stood on a soap-box and preached to the
>> > unwashed masses:
>> >
>> > > Come on now, go easy on the non-Americans. Most of them can't even
>> > > speak English.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Oy! At least we can spell ;-)
>> >
>> > >
>> > > But you can't beat the warm beer! Well, except with cold beer.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I presume that by "warm beer" you are referring to Real Ale? The
>> > ideal temperature for which is 55F, hardly warm!
>>
>> Oh yeah! Tell it to these guys ....
>>
>> http://www.projectit.com/lat/multimedia/image/jpeg/bigbeerglasses.jpg
>>
>
> ROFLMAO!!!
>
> Sailfish, you just don't realize how funny that is. A few months ago
> someone printed out that very picture and pinned it up in on the wall in
> my local pub ( http://www.thelansdownearms.supanet.com/Gallery.html -
> you really must come and have a pint with us!) with the comment "'tis
> Parish" penned underneath because the guy on the left is a dead ringer
> for me (when my face is buried in a beer glass).
>
>> :_)
For a moment there I was gonna say, 'Hey, how come my pub of choice
doesn't have it's own web site?' . . . but then I realised that that's
probably a good thing and that I haven't really frequented any pub with
any frequency for a couple years now. Been just a wee bit too broke, I'm
afraid. . . . :-(
/b. (who, on a Friday night, is beginning to rue not having a social life.
Rob Stow
>
> >Why are some 6,250 million people forced to use those terrible
> >medieval INCHES on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because
> >some 250 million stubborn Americans won't let go of their national
> >measurement crap?
> >
> >Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in the
> >USA, too.
> >
What ? You thought those Yankees would do something intelligent ?
You are talking about the same country where red-necked idiots
are trying to get creationism taught in the schools - and actually
succeeding in some areas ?
Rob
--
rob.stow is my name
sk.sympatico.ca provides me with this e-mail account
If you can't figure it out from there ask Mommy for help.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Mail from the the following domains are assumed to be spam
and are deleted by my filters:
hotmail.com, ziplip.com, excite.com, bellsouth.net, yahoo.com
Parish
unwashed masses:
What are you trying to say here? :-)
> A nasa buddy of mine sent it to
> me several years ago and he had got it from some visiting Aussies during
Ah, Aussies, now there's a race that knows how to drink, even if it is
gnats piss!
> some make-nice international meeting :_)
>
>
--
JTK
[snip]
>> Each time I hear someone from other than the US knocking the US, It
>> makes my blood boil.
>>
>> I think all of you need to buy a copy of Toby Keith's song Courtesy of
>> the Red, White, and, Blue (The Angry American) and listen to it
>> carefully.
>
>
> Phillip, *PLEASE* get a clue.
>
Oh I don't know, he sounds pretty clued-in to me.
> We're talkng about the metric system, *NOT* about trying to ensure one's
> influence in a given region of the world
As if they're not one in the same.
> (aided and abetted by the
> nation within whose sphere of influence said region once fell).
>
> And, y'know, no disprespect, but f*** the red, white, and blue -- and
> Toby Keith, too. This asinine jingoistic buls*** p***es off a /lot/ of
> people.
>
Especially Sammy Bin. Ask anybody if they care.
Felix Miata
> Some of us are equally comfortable with either system, but most US folks
> figure the old system works, why go to the expense of changing
> everything... Just a touch of Ludditeism...
Too many can't tell the difference between an expense and an investment.
The investment would pay dividends in the form of reduced costs to
conform products for international markets, besides the metric system
being so much simpler to learn and use in the first place, simple
decimal point placement vs. yards, inches, feet, rods, pounds, ounces,
tons, etc, etc, etc.
--
"To fear the Lord is to hate evil. . . ." Proverbs 8:13 NIV
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>> Each time I hear someone from other than the US knocking the US, It
>>> makes my blood boil.
>>>
>>> I think all of you need to buy a copy of Toby Keith's song Courtesy of
>>> the Red, White, and, Blue (The Angry American) and listen to it
>>> carefully.
>>
>>
>> Phillip, *PLEASE* get a clue.
>>
>
> Oh I don't know, he sounds pretty clued-in to me.
Clued in to *what*? You boys both pickin' up the same super-special secret
radio station or sumpin?
>> We're talkng about the metric system, *NOT* about trying to ensure one's
>> influence in a given region of the world
>
> As if they're not one in the same.
Metric system == metric system;
sphere of influence == sphere of influence:
Uhh . . . these are the same /how/?
>> (aided and abetted by the
>> nation within whose sphere of influence said region once fell).
>>
>> And, y'know, no disprespect, but f*** the red, white, and blue -- and
>> Toby Keith, too. This asinine jingoistic buls*** p***es off a /lot/ of
>> people.
>>
>
> Especially Sammy Bin. Ask anybody if they care.
Since Peter's an American living in Germany, perhaps we should let him
answer?
/me wanders off, whistling the Style Council's 'Dropping Bombs on the White
House'. . . .
Brian Heinrich
to netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> Wolfi wrote:
>>
>> us...@domain.invalid wrote:
>>
>> > agreed metric is easier to deal with but unfortunately
>> > measurement standards in the us is still the old school way
>> > and printer paer is measured in inches....
>> >
>> Yep, but Mozilla isn't a US-only project and outside the US, where the
>> potential userbase by far outnumbers the ones in the USA, most
>> countries use printer paper in A4 format and this is mesuared in mm,
>> not inches.
>>
>> Wolfi
>
> Mozilla itself or Netscape for that matter is not tied to US measure or
> A4. That dpends upon the Print Driver that comes with the printer. All
> printers within the past several years at least are capable of being set
> to print at A4.
>
> The print Driver for Hp's 990cse printer (at least on the Mac Platform)
> when you first install it "ask" whether you want to use A4 or 8-1/2 x11
> as your standard paper size.
Which still doesn't explain why you have to make use of hidden pref to get
Moz to default to A4.
The complaint -- at least as regards paper size (since I'm assuming Moz is
(or at least should be) picking up measurements from the OS) -- is valid.
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> On 12/10/2002 02:54 Sailfish stood on a soap-box and preached to the
I must agree. Canadians tend to think we can drink anything under the
table ('Merkins are hardly a challenge), but both the Aussies and the
damned Kiwis -- in a generic sense -- beat just about everyone . . . tho'
I've yet to meet anyone who could drink quite as much as a couple guys I
knew up in Edmonton: one was an Austrian (from Salzburg) and the other
was a half-Irish, half-Bayerisch Canuck; trying to keep up with 'em was
pointless.
At a time when spending $60 in a bar in a night was pretty much a
guarantee of severe pain the next day (at a time when 60-oz jugs would
cost you between five and eight bucks, depending where you were drinking),
the Austrian, Nemo, was known at times to drop over *200* bucks in the
course of a night. And, no, he wasn't buying drinks for all his friends
and/or all the pretty women, either.
/b. (who actually, in the words of an old Pogues song, *has* walked into a
pub and drunk 15 pints[1] of beer. . . .)
[1]Imperial pints, of course. :-)
>> some make-nice international meeting :_)
--
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>> Wolfi wrote:
>>
>> >Why are some 6,250 million people forced to use those terrible
>> >medieval INCHES on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because
>> >some 250 million stubborn Americans won't let go of their national
>> >measurement crap?
>> >
>> >Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in the
>> >USA, too.
>> >
>> >Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
>
>
>
> What ? You thought those Yankees would do something intelligent ?
> You are talking about the same country where red-necked idiots
> are trying to get creationism taught in the schools - and actually
> succeeding in some areas ?
>
> Rob
*LOL!*
Now *this* tells you something, since Rob and I live in two of the most red-
necked areas of Canada.
/b.
Parish
the unwashed masses:
> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Parish sauntered in to
> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
> > Ah, Aussies, now there's a race that knows how to drink, even if it
> > is gnats piss!
>
> I must agree. Canadians tend to think we can drink anything under the
> table
Hmm, sounds like a challenge to me! The Great Mozilla Beer Swilling
Contest :-)
> ('Merkins are hardly a challenge), but both the Aussies and the
LOL! Do you know what a merkin is (at least in the UK)? A pubic wig!!!
BTW, talking of Aussies, I'm listening to Rolf Harris' cover of Bohemian
Rhapsody as I type this.
> damned Kiwis -- in a generic sense -- beat just about everyone . . . tho'
> I've yet to meet anyone who could drink quite as much as a couple guys I
> knew up in Edmonton: one was an Austrian (from Salzburg) and the other
> was a half-Irish, half-Bayerisch Canuck; trying to keep up with 'em was
> pointless.
>
> At a time when spending $60 in a bar in a night was pretty much a
> guarantee of severe pain the next day (at a time when 60-oz jugs would
60 oz.? Sounds like my kind of pub :-)
> cost you between five and eight bucks, depending where you were drinking),
> the Austrian, Nemo, was known at times to drop over *200* bucks in the
> course of a night. And, no, he wasn't buying drinks for all his friends
> and/or all the pretty women, either.
>
> /b. (who actually, in the words of an old Pogues song, *has* walked into a
> pub and drunk 15 pints[1] of beer. . . .)
>
> [1]Imperial pints, of course. :-)
The only kind
>
> >> some make-nice international meeting :_)
>
--
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
>
> Inca wrote:
> -------------------------snip-------------------------
>
>> We Want Metric, We Want Metric...
>> (Is it in the localisation projects?)
>> --
>> Inca
>> Many questions are answered at http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/
>
>
> WE want US Measure!! WE want US Measure!!
No, no: We want OUR measure, not US measure.
Alternately: We /don't/ want YOUR measure. . . .
/me defies anyone to make a decent your/Eur pun at this point. :-)
Rob Stow
> That's OK, most Americans (and Canadians, too, I'm sorry to say)
> couldn't tell the difference between lager and ale if you explained it
> to 'em. Of course, most Americans (and Canadians, &c) drink some sorry
> excuse for lager that would leave most people retching.
>
> /b. (who's drinking a very nice Belgian-style ale from Québec at the
> moment and quite enjoying it. . . .)
>
At least nobody is raving about the crap that the British pretend
is beer. I've talked to British troops who come to Canada for
training at Suffield and flyers who came to participate in the
airshow at CFB Moose Jaw - and you can't pay them enough to drink
the British swill that gets imported just for them. I've been
told by several of them that only an idiot drinks crap like
Guinness when the local stuff goes down so much better after
a hot day.
Sailfish
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>
> >Some of us are equally comfortable with either system, but most US folks
> >figure the old system works, why go to the expense of changing
> >everything... Just a touch of Ludditeism...
>
>
> Too many can't tell the difference between an expense and an investment.
> The investment would pay dividends in the form of reduced costs to
> conform products for international markets, besides the metric system
> being so much simpler to learn and use in the first place, simple
> decimal point placement vs. yards, inches, feet, rods, pounds, ounces,
> tons, etc, etc, etc.
"Everything that glitters and shines is not metric"
Call it serendipity but I just happened on this little jewel that
purports to prove that the famed standard derived for that system is,
itself, a made-up measure (reads: bogus):
<excerpt>
Alder delivers a triple whammy with this elegant history of technology,
acute cultural chronicle and riveting intellectual adventure built
around Delambre's and Mechain's famed meridian expedition of 1792-1799
to calculate the length of the meter. Disclosing for the first time
details from the astronomers' personal correspondences (and
supplementing his research with a bicycle tour of their route), Alder
reveals how the exacting Mechain made a mistake in his calculations,
which he covered up, and which tortured him until his death.
</excerpt>
Bawhaaaaa!
Parish
the unwashed masses:
> *LOL!*
>
> Now *this* tells you something, since Rob and I live in two of the
> most red-necked areas of Canada.
Just to go *totally* OT, talking of "red-necks" and Canada, I was
watching an American programme (This Old House) on satellite TV and they
visited a sawmill in B.C. to see shingles (which, to me, is a nasty
condition caused by the chickenpox virus becoming active in adults)
being made. There was this guy sat with 2 circular saws ~2ft in diameter
spinning at God knows how many 1000's rpm with *no guards*; one to his
left and one in front of him and he was feeding shingles into both of
them simultaneously at an incredible rate. Do you not have Health and
Safety laws in Canada?
>
> /b.
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> On 12/10/2002 03:02 Brian Heinrich stood on a soap-box and preached to
> the unwashed masses:
>
>> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Parish sauntered in to
>> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>>
>> > Ah, Aussies, now there's a race that knows how to drink, even if it
>> > is gnats piss!
>>
>> I must agree. Canadians tend to think we can drink anything under the
>> table
>
>
> Hmm, sounds like a challenge to me! The Great Mozilla Beer Swilling
> Contest :-)
W00t! -- I think a few of us might be up for that.
>> ('Merkins are hardly a challenge), but both the Aussies and the
>
>
> LOL! Do you know what a merkin is (at least in the UK)?
Umm . . . I'm taking it it's not a mullet?
> A pubic wig!!!
/me scratches head trying to figure that one out before just giving up and
drinking more beer.
> BTW, talking of Aussies, I'm listening to Rolf Harris' cover of Bohemian
> Rhapsody as I type this.
Ouch. That's evil. . . .
/me has never been able to listen to 'Bohemian Rhapsody' with anything
approaching a straight face since a Mike Meyers got hold of it in /Wayne's
World/.
>> damned Kiwis -- in a generic sense -- beat just about everyone . . .
>> tho' I've yet to meet anyone who could drink quite as much as a couple
>> guys I knew up in Edmonton: one was an Austrian (from Salzburg) and
>> the other was a half-Irish, half-Bayerisch Canuck; trying to keep up
>> with 'em was pointless.
>>
>> At a time when spending $60 in a bar in a night was pretty much a
>> guarantee of severe pain the next day (at a time when 60-oz jugs would
>
>
> 60 oz.? Sounds like my kind of pub :-)
That's the standard size of a jug of draught/draft (depending on your
spelling preferences) here: five beer; three pints. Then there are pony
jugs, which are about the size of a schooner (which tends to come in at 32
oz for some weird reason: pints tend to be Imperial here, whilst
schooners are American? -- never have figured that out . . . ), and in
which big-a**ed high-balls (/e.g./, Long Island Iced Teas) tend to be
served.
>> cost you between five and eight bucks, depending where you were
>> drinking), the Austrian, Nemo, was known at times to drop over *200*
>> bucks in the course of a night. And, no, he wasn't buying drinks for
>> all his friends and/or all the pretty women, either.
>>
>> /b. (who actually, in the words of an old Pogues song, *has* walked
>> into a pub and drunk 15 pints[1] of beer. . . .)
>>
>> [1]Imperial pints, of course. :-)
>
>
> The only kind
Indeed. . . . :-D
/b.
>> >> some make-nice international meeting :_)
--
Parish
unwashed masses:
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
>
> > That's OK, most Americans (and Canadians, too, I'm sorry to say)
> > couldn't tell the difference between lager and ale if you explained it
> > to 'em. Of course, most Americans (and Canadians, &c) drink some sorry
> > excuse for lager that would leave most people retching.
> >
> > /b. (who's drinking a very nice Belgian-style ale from Québec at the
> > moment and quite enjoying it. . . .)
> >
> At least nobody is raving about the crap that the British pretend
> is beer. I've talked to British troops who come to Canada for
> training at Suffield and flyers who came to participate in the
> airshow at CFB Moose Jaw - and you can't pay them enough to drink
> the British swill that gets imported just for them. I've been
> told by several of them that only an idiot drinks crap like
> Guinness when the local stuff goes down so much better after
> a hot day.
Ah, but real ale is cask-conditioned which means that it continues
fermenting in the barrel. It has to be left to settle for a couple of
days (to allow it to clear) before it can be sold. It has a very short
"shelf life" so when it is exported it has to be filtered and
pasteurised to give it a sufficient shelf life. This means that it is
like canned beer. I'm not surprised that the Brits over there won't
drink it - it tastes like shit compared the same beer on draught. As for
Guinness (I prefer Murphys myself) the only place to drink it is in
Ireland. Apparently the peat water they use in Ireland makes it taste
sublime compared to the stuff we get in the UK, which is brewed under
licence here. I have promised myself that I will visit Ireland one day
to sample the real thing.
>
> Rob
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> Felix Miata wrote:
Your point being? Metric has the grand advantage of being both sane and
internally consistent, unlike, um, either Imperial or American systems.
Save in fields that have developed their own measures (/e.g./, printing --
and I use PostScript points, thank you kindly) or that are commonly thought
of in certain terms (/e.g./, beer, since Parish and I have been discussing
it)), there's really no point in maintaining American/Imperial measure for
most reasons.
Ironically, Canada seems not fully to've made the transition from Imperial
to metric, but getting stuck between the two by and large isn't a hassle
(you sort figure 100 km/h is close enough to 60 mph that you don't sweat it,
or you just do the 5/8 or 8/5 conversion, as necessary) . . . except,
weirdly, in southern Ontario, where most people still think of temperature
in Fahrenheit rather than centigrade (which I personally find a bit weird,
but whatever . . . ).
/b.
Parish
the unwashed masses:
> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Parish sauntered in to
> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
> > On 12/10/2002 03:02 Brian Heinrich stood on a soap-box and preached to
> > the unwashed masses:
> >
> >> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Parish sauntered in to
> >> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> >>
> >> > Ah, Aussies, now there's a race that knows how to drink, even if it
> >> > is gnats piss!
> >>
> >> I must agree. Canadians tend to think we can drink anything under the
> >> table
> >
> >
> > Hmm, sounds like a challenge to me! The Great Mozilla Beer Swilling
> > Contest :-)
>
> W00t! -- I think a few of us might be up for that.
>
See below
> >> ('Merkins are hardly a challenge), but both the Aussies and the
> >
> >
> > LOL! Do you know what a merkin is (at least in the UK)?
>
> Umm . . . I'm taking it it's not a mullet?
>
> > A pubic wig!!!
>
> /me scratches head trying to figure that one out before just giving up and
> drinking more beer.
>
I'm serious. Maybe it's just the term used over here, but they are,
apparently, used by some actresses to do nude scenes without, err,
revealing too much; have you never noticed how so many have perfect
black triangles? At which point we should terminate this sub-thread lest
someone moves it to alt.sex.???? ;-)
> > BTW, talking of Aussies, I'm listening to Rolf Harris' cover of Bohemian
> > Rhapsody as I type this.
>
> Ouch. That's evil. . . .
>
Not really. I take it you know of Rolf in Canada? His version of
Stairway To Heaven (for an Aussie music chat show) is the best ever
cover of that immortal classic; even Robert Plant gave it his seal of
approval. Rolf has a couple of albums of classic rock tracks - Smoke On
the Water in lounge jazz style - cool.
> /me has never been able to listen to 'Bohemian Rhapsody' with anything
> approaching a straight face since a Mike Meyers got hold of it in /Wayne's
> World/.
>
> >> damned Kiwis -- in a generic sense -- beat just about everyone . . .
> >> tho' I've yet to meet anyone who could drink quite as much as a couple
> >> guys I knew up in Edmonton: one was an Austrian (from Salzburg) and
> >> the other was a half-Irish, half-Bayerisch Canuck; trying to keep up
> >> with 'em was pointless.
> >>
> >> At a time when spending $60 in a bar in a night was pretty much a
> >> guarantee of severe pain the next day (at a time when 60-oz jugs would
> >
> >
> > 60 oz.? Sounds like my kind of pub :-)
>
> That's the standard size of a jug of draught/draft (depending on your
> spelling preferences) here: five beer; three pints. Then there are
I hereby propose that the first (and second, third, fourth,.....) Great
Mozilla Beer Swilling Contests are held in Canada (at least the bit
where Brian Heinrich lives) :-)
> pony
> jugs, which are about the size of a schooner (which tends to come in at 32
> oz for some weird reason: pints tend to be Imperial here, whilst
> schooners are American? -- never have figured that out . . . ), and in
> which big-a**ed high-balls (/e.g./, Long Island Iced Teas) tend to be
> served.
>
> >> cost you between five and eight bucks, depending where you were
> >> drinking), the Austrian, Nemo, was known at times to drop over *200*
> >> bucks in the course of a night. And, no, he wasn't buying drinks for
> >> all his friends and/or all the pretty women, either.
> >>
> >> /b. (who actually, in the words of an old Pogues song, *has* walked
> >> into a pub and drunk 15 pints[1] of beer. . . .)
> >>
> >> [1]Imperial pints, of course. :-)
> >
> >
> > The only kind
>
> Indeed. . . . :-D
>
> /b.
>
> >> >> some make-nice international meeting :_)
>
--
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
>
>> That's OK, most Americans (and Canadians, too, I'm sorry to say)
>> couldn't tell the difference between lager and ale if you explained it
>> to 'em. Of course, most Americans (and Canadians, &c) drink some sorry
>> excuse for lager that would leave most people retching.
>>
>> /b. (who's drinking a very nice Belgian-style ale from Québec at the
>> moment and quite enjoying it. . . .)
>>
> At least nobody is raving about the crap that the British pretend
> is beer.
Umm . . . which crap would that be? -- Don't prove me right on this, 'k? ;-)
And, yes, as a rule of thumb I /do/ like beers (well, ales, actually) from
the U. K. That would include Guinness, BTW.
> I've talked to British troops who come to Canada for
> training at Suffield and flyers who came to participate in the
> airshow at CFB Moose Jaw - and you can't pay them enough to drink
> the British swill that gets imported just for them.
Not been my experience, tho' I've not spent a lot of time hanging out at
Suffield (last time was when I was working on a paper in Brooks, so Suffield
kinda was in the area . . . ) and I ain't gonna be heading off to Moose Jaw
any time soon.
That said, my experience is that people from the U. K. who find themselves
in Canada tend to be divided: some of 'em like the largely undrinkable
p***-water Molson and Labatt brew, some of 'em miss real lagers, some of 'em
wonder if we've even heard of an ale. (Please, no jokes about curing what
ales you, 'k?)
Me, I just wanna find a nice bitter, thank-you-kindly. . . .
> I've been
> told by several of them that only an idiot drinks crap like
> Guinness when the local stuff goes down so much better after
> a hot day.
See above.
The one thing I have noticed is that people from out of country who like the
Canadian s/swill/beer tend to do so simply because it's a bit different from
what they're used to: less hoppy, maltier, sweeter, more heavily carbonated
(in some cases).
That said, in three years of working in a liquor store, I can't think of a
single visiting Brit who said in an unqualified way that Canadian brew was
better than what he could get back home -- and that included ciders.
(Weirdly, everyone, Canadian or otherwise, admitted that Scrumpy Jack's was
shite, but it didn't stop us from swilling it. :-) )
/b.
> Rob
Wolfi
>
> > Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an
> > ignorant, not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why
> > using the meric system would be better.
>
>
> Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
> inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
If I only could see *any* sense in trying to do so. As soon as you're stepping
outside the borders of the USA, those skills are *completely* useless, it's
just a waste of time to aquire them in the first place.
You can't just simply calculate with fractions like centi, milli, micro, nano,
pico, femto, ... or multiples like deka, hekto, kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta,
... and very easily convert base units to and from one of these fractions or
multiples in your favourite system.
There simply isn't any reasonable sense in trying to keep those units,
surviving from a time of nationalism and effort for local dominance, still
alive in our globalised world of today.
Ever wondered why today we are *not* using the Roman system or any of the
famous other of the ancient high cultures, but instead take advantage of some
genious of those days, who invented maths using a "0" as a 10th digit?
If it wouldn't had offered some drastic improvemwnts and huge benefits, it
hardly had survived into our times, don't you think so?
Wolfi
Sailfish
> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Sailfish sauntered in to
> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
> > Felix Miata wrote:
> >
> >> Ron Hunter wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >Some of us are equally comfortable with either system, but most US
> >> >folks figure the old system works, why go to the expense of changing
> >> >everything... Just a touch of Ludditeism...
> >>
> >>
> >> Too many can't tell the difference between an expense and an
> >> investment. The investment would pay dividends in the form of reduced
> >> costs to conform products for international markets, besides the metric
> >> system being so much simpler to learn and use in the first place,
> >> simple decimal point placement vs. yards, inches, feet, rods, pounds,
> >> ounces, tons, etc, etc, etc.
> >
> >
> > "Everything that glitters and shines is not metric"
> >
> > Call it serendipity but I just happened on this little jewel that
> > purports to prove that the famed standard derived for that system is,
> > itself, a made-up measure (reads: bogus):
> >
> >
> > Alder delivers a triple whammy with this elegant history of
> > technology, acute cultural chronicle and riveting intellectual
> > adventure built around Delambre's and Mechain's famed meridian
> > expedition of 1792-1799 to calculate the length of the meter.
> > Disclosing for the first time details from the astronomers' personal
> > correspondences (and supplementing his research with a bicycle tour of
> > their route), Alder reveals how the exacting Mechain made a mistake in
> > his calculations, which he covered up, and which tortured him until
> > his death.
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/074321675X/qid=1034392840/sr=2-1/r
> > ef=sr_2_1/102-5292206-4739361 />
> >
> > Bawhaaaaa!
>
>
> Your point being? Metric has the grand advantage of being both sane and
> internally consistent, unlike, um, either Imperial or American systems.
> Save in fields that have developed their own measures (/e.g./, printing
> -- and I use PostScript points, thank you kindly) or that are commonly
> thought of in certain terms (/e.g./, beer, since Parish and I have been
> discussing it)), there's really no point in maintaining
> American/Imperial measure for most reasons.
The main thing the metric system has going for it is it's power of 10
gradations which is great for science; although, as we now know, it's
basis of measure is some worthless number. At least the US Customary
System and the British Imperial System of measure (mostly length) were
devised from things ordinary folks could relate to. I mean, how many
folks know or can comprehend that a meter is supposed to be the measure
of one ten-millionth the length of the quarter meridian, from the North
Pole to the equator?
What's with that?!
>
> Ironically, Canada seems not fully to've made the transition from
> Imperial to metric, but getting stuck between the two by and large isn't
> a hassle (you sort figure 100 km/h is close enough to 60 mph that you
> don't sweat it, or you just do the 5/8 or 8/5 conversion, as necessary)
> . . . except, weirdly, in southern Ontario, where most people still
> think of temperature in Fahrenheit rather than centigrade (which I
> personally find a bit weird, but whatever . . . ).
Yeah, all I know is that real men drive cars whose engines are measured
by cubic inches, not no whimpy litre number.
Parish
unwashed masses:
> Ever wondered why today we are *not* using the Roman system
Because there is no zero, so how would we indicate the successful
termination of our C programs?
>
>
> Wolfi
Wolfi
> Yep, that's just the right size for having a nice little beer, but *not*
> some lukewarm cervezia. It has to be somewhere between 1° and 7°C, no more ,
> to make it enjoyable :-)
Wolfi
>
> >
> > I presume that by "warm beer" you are referring to Real Ale? The ideal
> > temperature for which is 55F, hardly warm!
>
>
> Oh yeah! Tell it to these guys ....
>
> http://www.projectit.com/lat/multimedia/image/jpeg/bigbeerglasses.jpg
>
> :_)
>
Rob Stow
> On 12/10/2002 03:15 Brian Heinrich stood on a soap-box and preached to
> the unwashed masses:
>
> > *LOL!*
> >
> > Now *this* tells you something, since Rob and I live in two of the
> > most red-necked areas of Canada.
>
>
>
> Just to go *totally* OT, talking of "red-necks" and Canada, I was
> watching an American programme (This Old House) on satellite TV and they
> visited a sawmill in B.C. to see shingles (which, to me, is a nasty
> condition caused by the chickenpox virus becoming active in adults)
> being made. There was this guy sat with 2 circular saws ~2ft in diameter
> spinning at God knows how many 1000's rpm with *no guards*; one to his
> left and one in front of him and he was feeding shingles into both of
> them simultaneously at an incredible rate. Do you not have Health and
> Safety laws in Canada?
Yes, we do. Unfortunately they haven't been converted to
metric yet so nobody can understand them.
But, seriously now folks, yes we do have "Health and Safety" laws
in Canada. However, their are lots of idiots who choose to
ignore them. Some idiots even eat broccolli on their lunch
breaks and think they are fit to go back to work after that.
There are also cases where the rules just don't apply and maybe
that sawmill was one of them. Business have to follow the
laws to protect their employees, but if you have no employees
to protect ... Eg., if it was a small mill with nobody
working there but the owner, then he could take a lot of
safety shortcuts that would be otherwise be illegal.
Sailfish
> On 12/10/2002 04:07 Wolfi stood on a soap-box and preached to the
> unwashed masses:
>
> > Ever wondered why today we are *not* using the Roman system
>
>
>
> Because there is no zero, so how would we indicate the successful
> termination of our C programs?
Yeah and how kewl would it have been for the object-oriented version
being called, CII :_)
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> On 12/10/2002 03:30 Rob Stow stood on a soap-box and preached to the
> unwashed masses:
>
>> Brian Heinrich wrote:
>>
>> > That's OK, most Americans (and Canadians, too, I'm sorry to say)
>> > couldn't tell the difference between lager and ale if you explained it
>> > to 'em. Of course, most Americans (and Canadians, &c) drink some sorry
>> > excuse for lager that would leave most people retching.
>> >
>> > /b. (who's drinking a very nice Belgian-style ale from Québec at the
>> > moment and quite enjoying it. . . .)
>> >
>> At least nobody is raving about the crap that the British pretend
>> is beer. I've talked to British troops who come to Canada for
>> training at Suffield and flyers who came to participate in the
>> airshow at CFB Moose Jaw - and you can't pay them enough to drink
>> the British swill that gets imported just for them. I've been
>> told by several of them that only an idiot drinks crap like
>> Guinness when the local stuff goes down so much better after
>> a hot day.
>
>
> Ah, but real ale is cask-conditioned which means that it continues
> fermenting in the barrel. It has to be left to settle for a couple of
> days (to allow it to clear) before it can be sold. It has a very short
> "shelf life" so when it is exported it has to be filtered and
> pasteurised to give it a sufficient shelf life. This means that it is
> like canned beer. I'm not surprised that the Brits over there won't
> drink it - it tastes like shit compared the same beer on draught.
Agreed -- altho' you /can/ find various British/European beers on tap in
Canada. Really. We're not that, um, parochial, y'know? :-P The nitrogen
inserts are helping a bit with some of 'em as well. . . .
> As for
> Guinness (I prefer Murphys myself) [ . . . ]
Y'know, some years ago there was a pub in town that carried Mackeson's, and
it just /rocked/. Yeh, it was was /far/ too bitter for most, but a pint of
Mackeson's and a plate of crisps made for a nice diversion whilst shooting
darts (which I've not done in some time now, I'm afraid . . . ).
> [ . . . ]the only place to drink it is in
> Ireland.
The half-Irish/half-Bayerisch friend once claimed that the *only* place to
drink Guinness was the little pub right by the brewery in Dublin; I used to
curse him roundly every time he brought this up. He also used to talk about
Budwar (he'd spent six months in Prague), but there's not a hope in hell
we're gonna get it here, damn Budweiser all to hell. . . .
> Apparently the peat water they use in Ireland makes it taste
> sublime compared to the stuff we get in the UK, which is brewed under
> licence here.
In Liverpool, IIRC.
It's brewed in Dublin, fer crying out loud; how peaty is the Liffey
nowadays? (This written by someone who prefers JJ&S to Bushies even if he
/is/ Protestant. And, yes, I'd love to be in Dublin on a certain day in
June in 2004, tho' /that/'s not bloody likely to happen. . . .
(Oh, am I exposing my educational back-ground? -- Sorry. . . .)
> I have promised myself that I will visit Ireland one day
> to sample the real thing.
Well, according to the aforementioned friend, you won't be disappointed.
BTW, we can get Guinness from St James' Gate here, on tap, but, according to
said friend, 'it doesn't travel well.' Yeh, right. Shite and onions, as
Simon Dedalus used to say. But if it gets /better/ than that, I want in. I
also want bar-tenders to be properly trained in the art of pulling a pint of
Guinness, but that's proven to be a hit-&-miss proposition. I've never come
across another beer that's so bloody sensitive, y'know?
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> Parish wrote:
>
>> On 12/10/2002 03:15 Brian Heinrich stood on a soap-box and preached to
>> the unwashed masses:
>>
>> > *LOL!*
>> >
>> > Now *this* tells you something, since Rob and I live in two of the
>> > most red-necked areas of Canada.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to go *totally* OT, talking of "red-necks" and Canada, I was
>> watching an American programme (This Old House) on satellite TV and they
>> visited a sawmill in B.C. to see shingles (which, to me, is a nasty
>> condition caused by the chickenpox virus becoming active in adults)
>> being made. There was this guy sat with 2 circular saws ~2ft in diameter
>> spinning at God knows how many 1000's rpm with *no guards*; one to his
>> left and one in front of him and he was feeding shingles into both of
>> them simultaneously at an incredible rate. Do you not have Health and
>> Safety laws in Canada?
>
>
> Yes, we do. Unfortunately they haven't been converted to
> metric yet so nobody can understand them.
And apparently don't hold in British Columbia anyway. . . . :-P
> But, seriously now folks, yes we do have "Health and Safety" laws
> in Canada. However, their are lots of idiots who choose to
> ignore them. Some idiots even eat broccolli on their lunch
> breaks and think they are fit to go back to work after that.
Hey! I *like* broccolli, even if it is a genetically engineered foodstuff
and has been responsible for 40 years of James Bond movies. (Would it help
if I pointed out that I'd just been listening to the /Trainspotting/
soundtrack?)
> There are also cases where the rules just don't apply and maybe
> that sawmill was one of them. Business have to follow the
> laws to protect their employees, but if you have no employees
> to protect ... Eg., if it was a small mill with nobody
> working there but the owner, then he could take a lot of
> safety shortcuts that would be otherwise be illegal.
Or, y'know, the guy just had no problem with losing (parts of) digits.
IIRC, someone I knew encountered this problem in junior high (sorry, don't
recall the British equivalent); he ended up boxing in the '84 Olympics.
Didn't go very far, but still. Ended up in the armed forces. Serving in
Germany. He was of Irish heritage.
/me begins to see a pattern emerging here, but it might just be 'cos he's
too tired. . . .
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:53:10 +0000, Sailfish wrote:
>
>
>> cubits?
>
> I vote for ells
>
> Geoff
*LOL!*
OK, *this* is funny. . . .
Brian Heinrich
to netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
>
> Wolfi wrote:
>>
>> Why are some 6,250 million people forced to use those terrible medieval
>> INCHES on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because some 250
>> million stubborn Americans won't let go of their national measurement
>> crap?
>>
>> Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in the
>> USA, too.
>>
>> Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
>>
>> Wolfi
>
> Cause we are independent lot. The peoples that originally came to
> America did so to get away from persecution from the land they came
> from.
Oh, Christ, Phillip; gimme a break. Yeh, things weren't that shit-hot for
Dissenters in Britain, but it's not like they were actually a persecuted
group. Think about it: If '[t]he peoples that originally came to America
[and I'm assuming you mean British peoples] did so to get away from
persecution', now is it that they had such strong ties to G. B. for so long?
(Yes, this is a gross simplification. . . .)
> And one of the by products was that they didn't want to have
> anything to do with association with the former opressors.
Umm . . . yeh . . . right. . . .
> This has
> been ingrained in the American Psyche for Centuries.
Umm . . . come again? It's been ingrained in to the American psyche that. .
. ? You don't actually define any of this. . . .
> I went to High school during the 60ties [ . . . ]
Hmm . . . I dealt with the new math and you dealt with the new spelling?
> [ . . . ] when we had to learn how to
> convert metric to inches and back for solid/liquid measure higway/sea
> travel and Temperature.
>
> There was even an admendment proposed that was going to "force" us to
> use the metric System. Unfortunately for the world, and Fortunately for
> us;[ . . . ]
And unfortunately for the rest of us. . . .
> [ . . . ]there was such an uproar, and constiyuents threatened to have any
> congreesman that would support it recalled. be it Democrat or
> Republican. So the idea was drop like a Hot Potato.
>
> who knows eventually everyone may end up with the metric system. but;
> not any time soon.
<shrug>Oh, well. Your loss. . . .</shrug>
> We already sell soft Drinks (coca cola, Pepsi, etc) in Liters. And most
> food Products have both pounds/ounces and metric equivelent.
>
> Autos built in USA use both Metric and SAE type Bolts, screws, Nuts and
> so on.
>
> Besides I don't see what the &*^% problem with using 81/2x11 inches or
> 11x14 paper you can near as much information on an A4 page. So you end
> up using more paper and having to cut down even more trees using A4 than
> US system.
WFT?! This is daft. I don't use A4, but I fail to see how it's more
wasteful than 8.5 x 11, where I have to define large margins if I'm to make
things readable. . . .
> I thought we went through this USA Bashing a while back and thought it
> subsided.
Weirdly, the only one who seems to think the U. S. A. is being 'bashed' is
you. Yes, we know: You love your country to the point of stupidity.
That's OK. But even if it were being 'bashed', I seriously doubt it's so
fragile as not to be able to withstand a few barbed comments made in Usenet
groups. . . .
> We are proud of the way we are. If you don't like it so be it. But don't
> knock it.
I wasn't aware 'we' were; I thought the rest of the world was just p***ed
about your arrogant ignorance, but I may well have been wrong. . . .
> We have a lot more rights than many people in the world, and
> our stuborn independence brought it about.
WTF?! -- You 'have a lot more rights than many people in the world' because
you live in a country that assumes that it is, of course, God's Own People.
. . .
> We are not perfect. But God s the only thing in the world I know of that
> is!
And are you so sure you have God on your side? ;-)
Wolfi
> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. sauntered in
> to netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
>
> >
> >
> > Inca wrote:
> > -------------------------snip-------------------------
> >
> >> We Want Metric, We Want Metric...
> >> (Is it in the localisation projects?)
> >> --
> >> Inca
> >> Many questions are answered at http://www.mozilla.org/start/1.0/
> >
> >
> >
> > WE want US Measure!! WE want US Measure!!
>
>
> No, no: We want OUR measure, not US measure.
>
> Alternately: We /don't/ want YOUR measure. . . .
>
> /me defies anyone to make a decent your/Eur pun at this point. :-)
>
> /b.
>
> Yep, you just hit the nerve :-)
That's exactly what I try to talk about all along.
Bottom line: any measure, as long as it is not YOUR measure ;-0
Wolfi
Wolfi
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
>
> > On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Sailfish sauntered in to
> > netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
> >
> >> Brian Heinrich wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Sailfish sauntered in to
> >>> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> >>>
> >>> > Brian Heinrich wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> On 11 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Wolfi sauntered in to
> >>> >> netscape.public.mozilla.wishlist and loudly proclaimed:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > Why are some 6,250 million people forced to use those terrible
> >>> >> medieval
> >>> >> > INCHES on the "Margins and Header/Footer" tab, only because some
> >>> >> > 250 million stubborn Americans won't let go of their national
> >>> >> > measurement crap?
> >>> >> > Since about 100 years the "Meter" is a legal measurement unit in
> >>> >> > the USA, too.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Why don't you finally use it like the rest of the world does?
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Wolfi
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Or, more sensibly yet, have paper measures in points and picas.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Except then someone would want ciceros, I'm sure. . . . :-P
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > cubits?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> OK, *that*'s just plain silly. . . .
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It's not wise to make light of God's measurement system, methinks? :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > We're talking about printing to a piece of paper -- *not* building an ark
> > or a temple. :-P
> > /b.
> >
> I'm glad because the Europeans would probably be complaining about us
> not doing that to their liking as well. :-)
>
> Of course, what did you think? We don't want YOUR temple, we want it OUR
> way, but that's just pretty much the same stuff already discussed earlier in
> this thread. :-)
It's jsut nice to have you guys got involved in my thread now so far OT from
it's initial, extremely harmless *complaint* about THEIR way of measurement
system :-0
This really is fun.
Wolfi
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
Cutting thro' *all* the rhetoric, what it seems to come down to is:
1. Mozilla should take A4 into account;
2. Preferred units of measure are handled by the OS.
Whether this is good/right/just is another matter, however. . . .
Brian Heinrich
Hmm . . . this bit of the thread seems relatively on-topic; you should read
the bit that deal with beer. :-P
Still, your point is well enough taken. . . .
Wolfi
>
> Hmm . . . this bit of the thread seems relatively on-topic; you should
> read the bit that deal with beer. :-P
>
> Still, your point is well enough taken. . . .
Oohh, I did. And despite two 5 days visits in Leicester, I couldn't figure
out, which German beer types the british Ale and Lager matches closest.
Which one is top-fermented and which one bottom-fermented?
Because I couldn't find something coming close to a good Pilsener like
Fürstenberg or Bitburger, or a Märzen, a great Bavarian Dunkel, a Doppelbock
or one of those delicious strong beers ending in *ator (like Salvator, with up
to some 8,5% of alc, some even more), I found for myself the black Guiness
(no, I yet don't know the real stuff, it just was the licensed brew) to be the
only one I really enjoyed to drink over there.
And no, I absolutely don't like wheat beer of any flavour.
And the softened, canned stuff available here in OK hardly is drinkable, so I
got kind of abstinent since I'm in the US :-(
Wolfi
Darren Salt
>> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an ignorant,
>> not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why using the
>> meric system would be better.
> Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
> inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
Oi! You forgot the furlong! :-)
--
| Darren Salt | Acorn | nr. Ashington, | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk
| RPC, Spec+3, A3010 | Club | Northumberland | s zap,tartarus,org
| BBC M128, Linux PC | NE | Toon Army | @
| Post HTML or binary => risk being reported to your ISP.
Do not count your chickens before they are hatched.
Darren Salt
[snip]
> Mozilla itself or Netscape for that matter is not tied to US measure or A4.
> That dpends upon the Print Driver that comes with the printer.
That's interesting, because I've never installed on any of my machines a
printer driver which was supplied with the printer...
--
| Darren Salt | nr. Ashington, | Acorn | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk
| RPC, Spec+3, A3010 | Northumberland | Club | s zap,tartarus,org
| BBC M128, Linux PC | Toon Army | NE | @
| When replying, "news"->"ds", "cu"->"co.uk", and validate
How you look depends on where you go.
Darren Salt
> The Green Lantern wrote:
[snip]
>> Another poster said something about Americans not being "lemminglike". I
>> think that goes a long way to make the world a better place.
> As does a little ass-kicking from time to time,
What has that small donkey ever done to you? :-)
> i.e. every time any part of the rest of the world needs protection from
> this or that psycho dictator.
... perhaps we need protection from this madman named G. W. Bush? :->
I'm inclined to agree with Brian about the USAnians' choice of supported
dictators and insurgents. OTOH, perhaps they picked them so that they'd have
somebody from which to defend the rest of us in 10 or 20 years' time...
[snip]
--
| Darren Salt | d youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | nr. Ashington, | Acorn
| RPC, Spec+3, A3010 | s zap,tartarus,org | Northumberland | Club
| BBC M128, Linux PC | @ | Toon Army | NE
| Wanted: PRM v5a
Crito, I owe a cock to Asclepius; will you remember to pay the debt?
Parish
the unwashed masses:
> Hey! I *like* broccolli, even if it is a genetically engineered
> foodstuff and has been responsible for 40 years of James Bond movies.
Groan!
> (Would it help
> if I pointed out that I'd just been listening to the /Trainspotting/
> soundtrack?)
No :-)
Parish
preached to the unwashed masses:
> On 12 Oct 2002, I vada'd that Wolfi had trolled into
> netscape.public.mozilla.general and left a bona messagette; to which I
> have responded as follows:
>
> > If I only could see *any* sense in trying to do so. As soon as you're
> > stepping outside the borders of the USA, those skills are *completely*
> > useless, it's just a waste of time to aquire them in the first place.
>
> Not so!
>
> Imperial measurements are understood by most New Zealanders and
> Australians
> over 35, and by all the British.
>
I would disagree with *all* the British. Imperial hasn't been used in
schools for years so the younger generation(s) really don't understand
it. If I tell my kids to move something 6 inches for example, I get
asked "what's 6 inches?". Similarly with weight in lbs.
I was at school when the move to metric started here[1] and went into
Engineering when I left school which was predominately metric, but with
a lot of legacy stuff in imperial. I now write engineering software and
although the bulk of our customers use metric we still have to deal with
imperial (US customers) so I'm pretty much "bilingual" when it comes to
measurement systems but there is a ever growing percentage of the
population who are metric-only.
[1] IMHO successive UK Govts over the last 30 years or so have made a
complete and utter balls up of metrication. The recent legislation that
everyting must be sold in metric units has so many exceptions it's a
joke; beer is still sold in pints (wine and spirits are sold in
milli-litres), as is doorstep delivered bottled milk whereas
supermarkets selling milk in plastic containers *must* use metric sizes
(Sainsburys, where we buy milk, sells it in not 1 litre bottles, but
1.136 litre. Why? because moulded into the plastic are the words TWO PINTS).
Petrol is sold in litres (I think that only happened because petrol
pumps couldn't cope when it reached £2/gallon) yet we measure fuel
comsumption in mpg.
> It's only really the Europeans who don't know the Imperial systems.
>
> Personally, I find Imperial and Metric units useful - but for different
> things. When measuring driving distance and speed, I'm metric. When
> measuring human height I'm Imperial. When measuring the size of a room
> I'm
> Imperial. When measuring weight I'm metric, but can also relate to the
> Imperial measurements for when cooking.
>
> And no - I'm not a Redneck, I've never even been near the American
> continent.
>
>
> Sir Humphrey Appleby
Parish
unwashed masses:
> I demand that The Green Lantern may or may not have written...
>
> >> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an ignorant,
> >> not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why using the
> >> meric system would be better.
>
> > Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
> > inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
>
> Oi! You forgot the furlong! :-)
>
Not to mention the rod, pole, perch, and chain.
Ron Hunter
David Eckard wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:30:49 UTC, JTK <gsagdj...@ahgkjhsadh.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>The Green Lantern wrote:
>>
>>>>Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an
>>>>ignorant, not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand why
>>>>using the meric system would be better.
>>>
>>>
>>>Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
>>>inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
>>>
>>
>
> Boys, calm down. We don't use metric because we are too cheap to pay
> the price to convert everything to it.... 50 billion at a minimum,
> very minimum.
>
That's, as they say, the 'bottom line'. SAd, but true.
--
Ron Hunter rphu...@charter.net
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
>
>
That's ridiculous.
Under normal circumstances, $50*10^9 would be a lot of money, but given the
obscene amount of money America spends on /soi-disant/ 'defence', you'd have
a hard time convincing most non-Americans that money is really a deterring
factor.
Parish
unwashed masses:
>
> David Eckard wrote:
> > On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:30:49 UTC, JTK
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The Green Lantern wrote:
> >>
> >>>>Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an
> >>>>ignorant, not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand
> why
> >>>>using the meric system would be better.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are 12
> >>>inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > Boys, calm down. We don't use metric because we are too cheap to pay
> > the price to convert everything to it.... 50 billion at a minimum,
> > very minimum.
> >
> That's, as they say, the 'bottom line'. SAd, but true.
It is, nonetheless, a curious thing that the US, which leads the world
in so many areas, should cling on to such an outdated system. One
normally thinks of the US as forward-{thinking,moving}. It's countries
like the UK which are steeped in history/tradition/ritual that resist
change.
As someone pointed out in another thread about printer settings not
being saved in Moz, "The US is the only industrialized nation not using
ISO A-series paper sizes".
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
> It is, nonetheless, a curious thing that the US, which leads the world
> in so many areas, should cling on to such an outdated system. One
> normally thinks of the US as forward-{thinking,moving}. It's countries
> like the UK which are steeped in history/tradition/ritual that resist
> change.
What I find so appalling is that in this case (as in so many others) America
fails to see that *it* is out of line, as shown by the s/moron/guy/ who
suggested (with true America arrogance) <quote>Or perhaps the rest of you
are too ignorant to learn that there are 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a
yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.</quote>
> As someone pointed out in another thread about printer settings not
> being saved in Moz, "The US is the only industrialized nation not using
> ISO A-series paper sizes".
Nor Canada, for that matter. And I'd venture to say that México doesn't,
either. A quick look at an atlas may help provide the answer. . . .
Parish
unwashed masses:
> Really? I didn't know that. I thought Canada was metric. Maybe it's the
> close proximity (too close for you, if some of your comments in these
> threads are any indication :-) )
>
That should have "to the US that is the reason" appended to it.
Parish
the unwashed masses:
> > As someone pointed out in another thread about printer settings not
> > being saved in Moz, "The US is the only industrialized nation not using
> > ISO A-series paper sizes".
>
> Nor Canada, for that matter. And I'd venture to say that México
Really? I didn't know that. I thought Canada was metric. Maybe it's the
close proximity (too close for you, if some of your comments in these
threads are any indication :-) )
Don't you use Km. and Km/h rather than miles and mph?
> doesn't,
> either. A quick look at an atlas may help provide the answer. . . .
>
> /b.
>
--
Graham
Wolfi <wolfi2@[SPAM_SUCKS]_uni-PERIOD-de> wrote:
> Oohh, I did. And despite two 5 days visits in Leicester, I couldn't
> figure out, which German beer types the british Ale and Lager matches
> closest. Which one is top-fermented and which one bottom-fermented?
Ale is beer fermented without hops or hop extract. Which ale were you
drinking? I have scoured the pubs of Leicester looking for ale, so tell
me where did you get it; all I can find on sale is beer.
AFAIK, British lager doesn't use bottom fermenting yeasts brewed for the
correct time at the right temperature (that's why I brew my own), so
steer clear of all British lager. Though you might like to try Cobra, a
real lager brewed and imported from India, that is designed to be drunk
with a Vindaloo......and what better reason for drinking lager?
Inca
<snipped to the bare essentials>
> Cutting thro' *all* the rhetoric, what it seems to come down to is:
>
> 1. Mozilla should take A4 into account;
> 2. Preferred units of measure are handled by the OS.
>
> Whether this is good/right/just is another matter, however. . . .
I am all with you, where can I vote (as long as it's not in Florida).
Brian Heinrich
netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
> On 12/10/2002 15:32 Brian Heinrich stood on a soap-box and preached to
> the unwashed masses:
>
>> > As someone pointed out in another thread about printer settings not
>> > being saved in Moz, "The US is the only industrialized nation not using
>> > ISO A-series paper sizes".
>>
>> Nor Canada, for that matter. And I'd venture to say that México
>
>
> Really? I didn't know that. I thought Canada was metric.
Largely, yes.
> Maybe it's the
> close proximity [to the US that is the reason.]
Not unlikely. However, I know next to nothing about the pulp and paper
industry.
> (too close for you, if some of your comments in these
> threads are any indication :-) )
Seems that way some times, doesn't it?
> Don't you use Km. and Km/h rather than miles and mph?
Yes. When the transition from Imperial to metric was first made, you'd see
both on road signs, but most of those are now strictly km and km/h --
except, I believe, in some high-traffic areas near the border.
>> doesn't,
>> either. A quick look at an atlas may help provide the answer. . . .
>>
>> /b.
>>
>
>
--
Rob Stow
> On 12 Oct 2002, I vada'd that Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. had trolled into
> netscape.public.mozilla.general and left a bona messagette; to which I have
> responded as follows:
>
> >Yet when a crisis comes up the US usually is the first one to send aid
> >or help out.
>
>
> Rubbish!
>
> The USA only ever goes into war, etc, for the USA's own self-interest. The
> USA so far has done nothing for altruistic reasons - always to benefit the
> USA own interests.
Amen to that. Every time some idiot trots out the arguement about
what a good job the US is doing in playing Sherriff to the rest of
the world I can't help but think about how the US refused to get
involved in either World War until those wars were about half over.
For those of you who have an even worse memory for historical dates
that I do ...
1.) WWI began in 1914 and ended in November 1918. The US did
not get involved until 1917. The US was involved for only the
last 19 months of a 55 month war.
2.) WWII formally began in September of 1939 and ended in
May of 1945 (Europe) and August 1945 (Pacific). The US did not
join in the war until December of 1941. IE., the US sat out the
first 25 months of a 71 month war.
To their great credit, in each World War some American men
who were embarrassed by the prolonged neutrality of their
country went to Britain or Canada and fought the war under
a foreign flag. Since beer has been discussed so much in
this thread, lets all pause for a moment and hoist a virtual
pint in their honour.
Rob
--
rob.stow is my name
sk.sympatico.ca provides me with this e-mail account
If you can't figure it out from there ask Mommy for help.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Mail from the the following domains are assumed to be spam
and are deleted by my filters:
hotmail.com, ziplip.com, excite.com, bellsouth.net, yahoo.com
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Brian Heinrich wrote:
-------------------------snip-------------------------
> Hey! I *like* broccolli, even if it is a genetically engineered foodstuff
> and has been responsible for 40 years of James Bond movies. (Would it help
> if I pointed out that I'd just been listening to the /Trainspotting/
> soundtrack?)
I like it too. Either cooked (boiled similar to cabage or Turnip greens)
and served with a Cheadar Cheese sause.
Or cut the florets into small pieces a long with the florets of
Cauliflower; then whip up a home made ranch dressing put all in a
container and toss so that you create a Broccolli & Cauliflower Salad.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |pjo...@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!
mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
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<http://vpea.exis.net>
Rob Stow
> On 12 Oct 2002, it is alleged that Ron Hunter sauntered in to
> netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
>
> >
> >
> > David Eckard wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:30:49 UTC, JTK
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> The Green Lantern wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an
> >>>>> ignorant, not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand
> >>>>> why using the meric system would be better.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there are
> >>>> 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Boys, calm down. We don't use metric because we are too cheap to pay
> >> the price to convert everything to it.... 50 billion at a minimum,
> >> very minimum.
> >>
> > That's, as they say, the 'bottom line'. SAd, but true.
>
>
> That's ridiculous.
>
> Under normal circumstances, $50*10^9 would be a lot of money, but given
> the obscene amount of money America spends on /soi-disant/ 'defence',
> you'd have a hard time convincing most non-Americans that money is
> really a deterring factor.
>
> /b.
>
Back when I was a wee lad studying Physics, a bunch of us had
a big debate over the great American folly. Some of the imported
Yankee students defended the US/Imperial system, but one American
student pointed out that a US Senate sub-committee revisited the
Metricification issue. Apparently that committee determined that
being the only major economy that had not yet converted to Metric
was costing the US something like $7 billion per year - if you take
into account 15 years of inflation since that time the figure has
probably doubled.
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Brian Heinrich wrote:
-------------------------snip-------------------------
> Which still doesn't explain why you have to make use of hidden pref to get
> Moz to default to A4.
>
> The complaint -- at least as regards paper size (since I'm assuming Moz is
> (or at least should be) picking up measurements from the OS) -- is valid.
I haven't run into that (I guess because I use 8-1/2 by 11) But isn't
that set in "Page setup"?
Brian Heinrich
to netscape.public.mozilla.general and loudly proclaimed:
>
>
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
> -------------------------snip-------------------------
>> Which still doesn't explain why you have to make use of hidden pref to
>> get Moz to default to A4.
>>
>> The complaint -- at least as regards paper size (since I'm assuming Moz
>> is (or at least should be) picking up measurements from the OS) -- is
>> valid.
>
> I haven't run into that (I guess because I use 8-1/2 by 11)
Precisely.
> But isn't
> that set in "Page setup"?
You'd think. The problem is that it doesn't persist. There is a hidden
pref, but I don't recall what it is -- would someone be so kind as to
provide it to put poor Wolfi out of his misery?
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Darren Salt wrote:
>
> I demand that Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. may or may not have written...
>
> [snip]
> > Mozilla itself or Netscape for that matter is not tied to US measure or A4.
> > That dpends upon the Print Driver that comes with the printer.
>
> That's interesting, because I've never installed on any of my machines a
> printer driver which was supplied with the printer...
By that comment I assume you use UNIX or soem varient. The OS in that
Case supplies the Driver, or you use open source Drivers (such as I
believe "Gimp Print"??).
In any event the Print Driver is responsible regardless of where it
comes from. The print Command just passes the command to bring up the
print menu which within the system (Print Driver). The page setup also
is part of the print Driver and servers as an interface. What ends up as
the standard is related to the localization of system.
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.
Brian Heinrich wrote:
-------------------------snip-------------------------
> WFT?! This is daft. I don't use A4, but I fail to see how it's more
> wasteful than 8.5 x 11, where I have to define large margins if I'm to make
> things readable. . . .
Take a sheet of A4 Paper and 8-1/2 by 11 and lay the A4 on top of the
8-1/2 by 11. You'll find the A$ dramatically smaller. Thus using the
same size Margins fewer lines and fewer words per line will be printed
on the A4. a 20 page report front and back on 8-1/2 by 11 will end up
about 22-24 pages on A4.
> > I thought we went through this USA Bashing a while back and thought it
> > subsided.
>
> Weirdly, the only one who seems to think the U. S. A. is being 'bashed' is
> you. Yes, we know: You love your country to the point of "stupidity".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> That's OK. But even if it were being 'bashed', I seriously doubt it's so
> fragile as not to be able to withstand a few barbed comments made in Usenet
> groups. . . .
Thanks goodness no. :-)
> > We are proud of the way we are. If you don't like it so be it. But don't
> > knock it.
>
> I wasn't aware 'we' were; I thought the rest of the world was just p***ed
> about your arrogant ignorance, but I may well have been wrong. . . .
Read the above sentences then ponder it as a proof of my contention.
> > We have a lot more rights than many people in the world, and
> > our stuborn independence brought it about.
>
> WTF?! -- You 'have a lot more rights than many people in the world' because
> you live in a country that assumes that it is, of course, God's Own People.
That's not exactly right. We live in a country that believes anyone
should have to right to believe any religous method we desire:
Protestant (Baptist, Luthern, Catholic, Episcopalian,Morman, etc.),
Buddhist, Scientology, Jewish, Islam. Or even the right to not believe
in a God: Atheism. Or be Agnostic.
>
> > We are not perfect. But God s the only thing in the world I know of that
> > is!
>
> And are you so sure you have God on your side? ;-)
Well he sure ain't on the side of Sadam Hussian. ;-)
Parish
preached to the unwashed masses:
>
> Brian Heinrich wrote:
> -------------------------snip-------------------------
> > WFT?! This is daft. I don't use A4, but I fail to see how it's more
> > wasteful than 8.5 x 11, where I have to define large margins if I'm
> to make
> > things readable. . . .
>
> Take a sheet of A4 Paper and 8-1/2 by 11 and lay the A4 on top of the
> 8-1/2 by 11. You'll find the A$ dramatically smaller. Thus using the
Huh? The sheet of A4 I'm measuring here is, in inches, 11-11/16 x 8-9/32
which is 11/16" longer and 7/32" narrower. A quick bit of maths gives:
A4 == 96.787 in^2
8-1/2 x 11 == 93.5 in^2
--
Sailfish
> On 12/10/2002 15:10 Ron Hunter stood on a soap-box and preached to the
> unwashed masses:
>
> >
> > David Eckard wrote:
> > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:30:49 UTC, JTK
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>The Green Lantern wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>>Bullshit, americans are too complacant and indifferent (in an
> > >>>>ignorant, not an arrogant way) to even bother to try to understand
> > why
> > >>>>using the meric system would be better.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Or perhaps the rest of you are too ignorant to learn that there
> are 12
> > >>>inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, and 1760 yards in a mile.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Boys, calm down. We don't use metric because we are too cheap to pay
> > > the price to convert everything to it.... 50 billion at a minimum,
> > > very minimum.
> > >
> > That's, as they say, the 'bottom line'. SAd, but true.
>
>
> It is, nonetheless, a curious thing that the US, which leads the world
> in so many areas, should cling on to such an outdated system. One
> normally thinks of the US as forward-{thinking,moving}. It's countries
> like the UK which are steeped in history/tradition/ritual that resist
> change.
I believe that the only area where we still use the non-metric system is
in areas where the common man (reads: non-scientific) treads. For
example, the medical profession doesn't use ounces, quarts and gallons
but the food industry does (although, even there the labels usually have
both measurements.) Much the same with length units.
Until such time as the politicians can convince the lay people (reads:
masses) that going over to a measure that they cannot relate to is
better for them, then the US Customary System is where we will stay.
It's all part of our political system which, btw, is where it belongs, imo.
>
> As someone pointed out in another thread about printer settings not
> being saved in Moz, "The US is the only industrialized nation not using
> ISO A-series paper sizes".
As I recall, ISO is primarily a European standards organization, so why
should the US abide by it's determination of what a paper size should
be? Afterall, 8.5x11 was here a long time before A4 was.
--
Netscape FAQs: http://www.ufaq.org
Netscape 6/7 Tips: http://www.hmetzger.de/net6e.html
Netscape 6 FAQ: http://home.adelphia.net/~sremick/ns6faq.html
Netscape 7 Help/Tips: http://techaholic.net/ns7.html
Web page validation: http://validator.w3.org
About Mozilla: http://www.mozilla.org
Parish
unwashed masses:
> As I recall, ISO is primarily a European standards organization, so
No, it may have its roots in Europe, but it is an international body and
your very own ANSI is a member.
> why
> should the US abide by it's determination of what a paper size should
> be? Afterall, 8.5x11 was here a long time before A4 was.
We gave up our standard sizes, foolscap being the nearest equivalent to
A4/ 8.5x11, ages ago.
As it says at http://www.iso.org/iso/en/aboutiso/introduction/index.html
What are standards?
Standards are documented agreements containing technical specifications
or other precise criteria to be used consistently as rules, guidelines,
or definitions of characteristics, to ensure that materials, products,
processes and services are fit for their purpose.
For example, the format of the credit cards, phone cards, and "smart"
cards that have become commonplace is derived from an ISO International
Standard. Adhering to the standard, which defines such features as an
optimal thickness (0,76 mm), means that the cards can be used worldwide.
International Standards thus contribute to making life simpler, and to
increasing the reliability and effectiveness of the goods and services
we use.