2005-03-21 - Summary of mozilla.org staff meeting
Gervase Markham
-------------------------------------------------
Present: justdave, dria, sarah, asa, chofmann, chase, cbeard, dbaron,
raphael, jst, myk, chase, dveditz, scc, gerv, marcia, brendan.
*Releases*
- Asa to make one more pass through the newsgroups - nothing has turned
up
- Should be all done by end of day tomorrow
- Could do Seamonkey and Thunderbird sooner - perhaps today
- Let dveditz know when the security page is ready to be pushed
- The Plan: Ship Firefox Tuesday night, release Wednesday morning
- Work on Shipping Seamonkey and Thunderbird today
*DevMo*
- Discussion about direction and plans taking place on various mailing
lists
- using Wiki as primary documentation system
- MediaWiki set up for English, working on other languages
- talking to bclary about what parts of DevEdge are still valuable
- Migrating still-valuable DevEdge content to the new wiki
- Need to know what to do with the DevEdge Sidebar Tool stuff
- All DevMo-related project documents are linked off deb's user page on
wiki.mozilla.org (User:Dria)
- feedback is appreciated
- We are theming the wiki (cbeard)
*Camino*
- launched new site, caminobrowser.org to support their project
- Asa, raphael, cbeard, pink, scott collins to work out details of
transition
- replace www.mozilla.org/products/camino with a redirect to
caminobrowser.org
*People*
- bsmedberg will be here today and tomorrow
- scc to be out in CA in May
Marcia
Jiri Znamenacek
Any way of migrating the old good Seamonkey sidebar to Firefox? Maybe
someone already did some extension for this? (If not - would it be
technicaly possible?) Seamonkey Browser is the developer dream, while
Firefox is just, uh, browser (with miriads of extensions)...
JZ
Bob Clary
You can still install sidebars into Firefox. Make a folder in your
Bookmarks toolbar folder called Sidebars and when installing the new
sidebars, save them there. You can then open the Sidebar folder, select
your sidebar and have it open on the left side of the window as usual.
No keyboard shortcuts though.
alphadec
says...
Do like me UNINSTALL Firefox I only use Seamonkey THE TRUE Mozilla.
Soon it will be renamed Red Star (or I hope so)
Karsten Düsterloh
> - Need to know what to do with the DevEdge Sidebar Tool stuff
It's still valuable for Mozilla <= 1.7.x and will definitely stay so for
the if-so-called SeaMonkey project, so please revive it.
Karsten
--
Freiheit stirbt | Fsayannes SF&F-Bibliothek:
Mit Sicherheit | http://fsayanne.tprac.de/
Jiri Znamenacek
> You can still install sidebars into Firefox. Make a folder in your
> Bookmarks toolbar folder called Sidebars and when installing the new
> sidebars, save them there. You can then open the Sidebar folder, select
> your sidebar and have it open on the left side of the window as usual.
> No keyboard shortcuts though.
Interesting. But it's still not the same - you can't select diferent
sidebar the other way than closing the bookmarks tab, reopening it and
chosing the other one? I think I'm going to do the same as always - to
ignore Firefox.
JZ
PS: Warning - more FF bashing ;) Do you want to see PageInfo? Forget it.
CTRL+I opens bookmarks. As does CTRL+B. But for mere mortals totally
useless DOM Inspector has its own keybinding. Contrary to JavaScript
Console, which could at least tell the same people there's something
broken with the page they looking at. Oh my. Let's hope the revive
Seamonkey will provide the way to use just the browser (I don't need the
suite, I just need the better browser to work with and FF is not the one).
Jonas Jørgensen
>> You can still install sidebars into Firefox. Make a folder in your
>> Bookmarks toolbar folder called Sidebars and when installing the new
>> sidebars, save them there. You can then open the Sidebar folder,
>> select your sidebar and have it open on the left side of the window as
>> usual. No keyboard shortcuts though.
>
> Interesting. But it's still not the same - you can't select diferent
> sidebar the other way than closing the bookmarks tab, reopening it and
> chosing the other one?
Wrong. Just put your Sidebars folder in your Bookmarks Toolbar and place
it on the very left, just above the sidebar. Then right above your
sidebar, you have your folder of sidebars. No need to close or reopen
your sidebar before choosing another one. It works pretty much like
Seamonkey, actually.
> PS: Warning - more FF bashing ;) Do you want to see PageInfo? Forget it.
> CTRL+I opens bookmarks.
Hmm. On my system CTRL+I opens Page Info. This on Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U;
Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050328 Firefox/1.0 (Ubuntu
package 1.0.2). Maybe you are using an operating system where its
standards dictate different behavior for CTRL+I?
Jiri Znamenacek
because I don't want Bookmark Toolbar to be visible. I would like to see
Seamonkey's F9 variant - sidebar with subsidebars.
For CTRL+I: Two separate installations of FF, one on W2k, one on WinXP,
both without this keybinding. But you are right, there's something
strange here - I looked into the code and keybinding is there! I've just
tried clean reinstall (including profile) but no success. Strange.
JZ
Adam Hauner
> For CTRL+I: Two separate installations of FF, one on W2k, one on WinXP,
> both without this keybinding. But you are right, there's something
> strange here - I looked into the code and keybinding is there! I've just
> tried clean reinstall (including profile) but no success. Strange.
Ctrl+I is available for Page Info on Linux, on Windows Ctrl+I opens
sidebar with bookmarks.
Jiri, look for "Informace o strance" on table end:
http://firefox.czilla.cz/otazky/klavesove-zkratky/
--
Adam Hauner
Projekt CZilla
http://www.czilla.cz/
http://firefox.czilla.cz/
Jiri Znamenacek
> Ctrl+I is available for Page Info on Linux, on Windows Ctrl+I opens
> sidebar with bookmarks.
> Jiri, look for "Informace o strance" on table end:
> http://firefox.czilla.cz/otazky/klavesove-zkratky/
Oh my, FF on Windows is following IE so closely :/ Thanks for the info,
nice page.
JZ
Jiri Znamenacek
> "F1 | Keyboard Shortcuts" yields the same (better) result. ;-)
Record - I've just opened FF for the ~5th time today ;) Well, that page
is missing PageInfo if I can see it well.
JZ
Peter Lairo
"F1 | Keyboard Shortcuts" yields the same (better) result. ;-)
--
Regards,
Peter Lairo
The browser you can trust: www.GetFirefox.com
Reclaim Your Inbox: www.GetThunderbird.com
Asa Dotzler
> Aha, I understand now. But that is not the solution I was looking for
> because I don't want Bookmark Toolbar to be visible. I would like to see
> Seamonkey's F9 variant - sidebar with subsidebars.
Just give each of your sidebars a bookmark keyword and use that to open them. It's quick,
and you don't lose real estate to the sidebar header chrome.
- A
Jiri Znamenacek
> Just give each of your sidebars a bookmark keyword and use that to open
> them. It's quick, and you don't lose real estate to the sidebar header
> chrome.
Well, that's an interesting idea (although when I need to look into
reference I probably use a mouse and therefore would still prefer
Seamonkey's sidebar in that case). But for some reason despite the state
of "Load this bookmark in the sidebar" everything loads into the main
window. Some magic going on here :) Never mind, happy weekend to all!
JZ
Smylers
> But [putting a 'Sidebar' bookmark folder just above the sidebar] is
> not the solution I was looking for because I don't want Bookmark
> Toolbar to be visible.
You don't need the bookmark toolbar to be visible to use the bookmark
toolbar folder, strange as that may sound. In 'Customize Toolbar' you
can drag the 'Bookmarks Toolbar Items' item from the bookmark toolbar to
the menu bar. If the only thing in your bookmark toolbar items folder
is your 'Sidebar' folder, that effectively adds 'Sidebar' as a menu just
next to the standard menu items.
Smylers
Ed Mullen
I agree, the FF sidebar is another case of "fixing what wasn't broke" or
"tossing the baby out with the bathwater." Some thoughts on this:
http://edmullen.net/Mozilla/moz_sidebar.html
--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://edmullen.net/Mozilla/moz.html
http://edmullen.net/Mozilla/seamonk.html
Peter Lairo
I filed a bug way back in June 2003 for a sidebar that was better than
the current Firefox one and better than the Suite one.
Someone I never heard of before (Brant Gurganus) WONTFIXED it. :-(
New Style of Selecting and Managing Sidebar Panels using a
Single-Selection Dropdown List
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=209642
+---------------------+--------------------------------------
| [ Bookmarks ] [x]| <-- currently selected (here: Bookmarks)
| +----------------------+
| | Customize Sidebars |
| | Sidebar Directory |
| |----------------------|
| |o Bookmarks | <-- currently selected (here: Bookmarks)
| | Search |
| | History |
| | Bugzilla |
| | ... |
| +----------------------+
| Mozilla.org |
| Mozillaine.org |
| SpreadFirefox.com|
| MozDev.org |
+---------------------+
Should I reopen it?
Karsten Düsterloh
> I filed a bug way back in June 2003 for a sidebar that was better than
> the current Firefox one and better than the Suite one.
>
> Someone I never heard of before (Brant Gurganus) WONTFIXED it. :-(
>
> New Style of Selecting and Managing Sidebar Panels using a
> Single-Selection Dropdown List
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=209642
>
> +---------------------+--------------------------------------
> | [ Bookmarks ] [x]| <-- currently selected (here: Bookmarks)
> | +----------------------+
> | | Customize Sidebars |
> | | Sidebar Directory |
> | |----------------------|
> | |o Bookmarks | <-- currently selected (here: Bookmarks)
> | | Search |
> | | History |
> | | Bugzilla |
> | | ... |
> | +----------------------+
> | Mozilla.org |
> | Mozillaine.org |
> | SpreadFirefox.com|
> | MozDev.org |
> +---------------------+
>
> Should I reopen it?
I doubt that that will help.
I guess your best chances are in watching the (so-codenamed) Seamonkey
project and hope for bugs like
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=233874>.
I'm quite positive that there will be improvements in the sidebar in the
not-so-distant future...
Asa Dotzler
> Someone I never heard of before (Brant Gurganus) WONTFIXED it. :-(
> Should I reopen it?
No.
- A
Frank Wein
> I filed a bug way back in June 2003 for a sidebar that was better than
> the current Firefox one and better than the Suite one.
>
> Someone I never heard of before (Brant Gurganus) WONTFIXED it. :-(
He didn't WONTFIX it (he only VERIFIED it), Blake Ross WONTFIXed it.
Frank
Jeff Walden
You don't see Page Info because the whole row for it in Firefox Help on Windows is hidden using CSS created at build time that hides information not for a specific platform. If there's no shortcut for it in Windows, we (the Firefox Help writers/developers) saw no reason to display it. Try it on a Mac or in Linux, however, and the row is displayed because the CSS rule to hide the row doesn't apply. Firefox Help makes a good deal of effort to be completely correct for the user's platform, and so it's really quite rare that you see something that's not directed at your platform or is explicitly directed at multiple platforms. (There was really only one such problem remaining in Firefox 1.0, and the support to fix it was just checked in in the last week -- see bug 254992. With that now fixed, the plan is that you won't be able to find *anything* that's not applicable to the user's platform in Firefox 1.1.)
See also these links to source code, which may or may not be useful depending on how well you know CSS and understand the XUL preprocessor and the various platform build flags used in Mozilla:
http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/browser/components/help/locale/en-US/shortcuts.xhtml#290
http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/toolkit/components/help/content/platformClasses.css
Jeff Walden
P.S. -- Note that the first link may go dead sometime soon, as the file's getting moved around in source code. You can always look at one of the older copies of it if you want to see the referenced code.
P.S. -- Apologies for digging up a dead thread, but I'm behind on newsgroup reading...
Jiri Znamenacek
> 254992. With that now fixed, the plan is that you won't be able to find
> *anything* that's not applicable to the user's platform in Firefox 1.1.)
Good to know this. But, well, all my complaining is about that FF is not
an option for a lot of people who followed Mozilla from the start. For a
lot of us (especially on the Windows as I see it now) it's simply a big
step backward compared to Seamonkey. But I understand that for stealing
people from IE it was the right move and that people like me are
absolute minority.
I'm trying to use FF at least at home, but I constantly stumble over so
much changes to worse between Seamonkey and Firefox that it's really
demoralizing. I just hope that ones XULRunner is out and all Mozilla
products are transfered to it (me the foolish one), it will be easier to
make modification.
JZ