Communications with Firebird sql project administrators

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Mitchell Baker

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May 12, 2003, 8:37:51 PM5/12/03
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Recently  Mark O'Donohoe and Ann Harrison of the Firebirdsql project and I have made contact via email.  It has been encouraging to have this communication channel.  Attached is the gist of a message I sent to Ann and Mark a couple of days ago.  I am posting it here because it describes a plan of action. 

Mitchell

Ann and Mark

Thank you for your recent messages.  It is encouraging to have a civil communication channel, where we can actually discuss concerns.  Along these lines, I understand that well-meaning people in the Firebird database project feel aggrieved and have concerns about sharing a name with the Mozilla Firebird Browser. I don't necessarily agree with the analysis, but I understand that parts of your community feel passionately.

Your website speaks of "infringing use of our trademark" and otherwise suggests that our use of firebird as part of the name of our browser violates rights of the Firebird database project under trademark law.  We disagree.  The name has  undergone careful review by trademark counsel experienced in such matters.  I hope to respond to your overtures and improve the relationship between the two projects.  But I do not share any belief that our use of the name is questionable under trademark law. 

Many people believe that it is or would be easy for the Mozilla project to change names.  This is not the case.  Choosing a name, gathering input, researching its trademark status, making a decision and implementing a name change is a long process.  We cannot make this happen in a matter of days, or even weeks.

Nevertheless, we do intend to change the name so that the browser now known as "Mozilla Firebird Browser" becomes the "Mozilla Browser."  Even this is not a simple or easy change.  Mozilla.org currently hosts several projects:  The Mozilla Application Suite, which includes browing, mail, news, editing and chat functionality; and a set of stand-alone applications representing the next generation of development.   Our plan to rename Mozilla Firebird Browser to Mozilla Browser requires us to eradicate use of "browser" in connection with the browsing functionality in the Mozilla Application Suite.  We need to educate our developers that Mozilla Browser means the new stand-alone application, not the browser inside of the Mozilla Application Suite with which they are familiar.

We intend to do this in the timeframe of the 1.5 release cycle.  We are currently in the 1.4 release cycle.  We expect 1.4 to be the last development cycle focused on the Mozilla Application Suite, and that the 1.5 cycle will shift to the new stand-alone applications.  As part of the move to the new development paradigm, we will revise our development tools and culture so that "browser" refers to the Mozilla Browser, and not to the browser in the Mozilla Application Suite.  We intend to make these changes as soon as we can in the 1.5 release cycle.

The 1.5 release cycle is soon, but not immediate.  We will be making a few milestone releases of the Mozilla Firebird Browser before the 1.5 release cycle.  So there will be additional discussion of the Mozilla Firebird Browser as we do these releases.  The good news is that we are all eager for the Mozilla Firebird Browser to become the Mozilla Browser.  Mozilla.org is working toward this goal.

Mitchell

Peter Lairo

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May 13, 2003, 7:43:06 AM5/13/03
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On 5/13/03 2:37 AM, Mitchell Baker wrote:

> we do intend to change the name so that the browser
> now known as "Mozilla Firebird Browser" becomes the "Mozilla
> Browser."

The is very good news. I am relieved that cool (and fair) minds have
prevailed. :-D

> ... Mozilla


> Browser means the new stand-alone application, not the browser

> inside of the Mozilla Application Suite ...

This is very clear and should be our "mantra" until all understand.
--
Peter Lairo


--==--
"What we're seeing with Web sites that are viewable only with IE is the
privatization of the Web." (Mitchell Baker)
--==--

David Fraser

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May 13, 2003, 9:05:43 AM5/13/03
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Peter Lairo wrote:
> On 5/13/03 2:37 AM, Mitchell Baker wrote:
>
>> ... Mozilla
>> Browser means the new stand-alone application, not the browser
>> inside of the Mozilla Application Suite ...
>
>
> This is very clear and should be our "mantra" until all understand.

Could someone clarify, what is the browser inside of the Mozilla
Application Suite going to be called? Or will it just be "the browser
inside of the Mozilla Application Suite"?

Simon Paquet

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May 13, 2003, 9:25:51 AM5/13/03
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David Fraser wrote:

>>> ... Mozilla
>>> Browser means the new stand-alone application, not the browser
>>> inside of the Mozilla Application Suite ...
>>
>>
>> This is very clear and should be our "mantra" until all understand.

> Could someone clarify, what is the browser inside of the Mozilla
> Application Suite going to be called? Or will it just be "the
> browser inside of the Mozilla Application Suite"?

Please read Christopher Blizzards document on Mozilla branding
http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap/branding.html

The browser inside the app suite will be called navigator.

--
Simon Paquet

What we do in life, echoes in eternity. (Gladiator)

Giacomo Magnini

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May 13, 2003, 10:08:52 AM5/13/03
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Simon Paquet wrote:

> The browser inside the app suite will be called navigator.

Ok, great. I just wonder about the mess for the help files: will we have
2 versions of Mozilla Help, one for Navigator and the other for Mozilla
Browser?
Cheers, Giacomo.


Simon Paquet

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May 13, 2003, 11:13:19 AM5/13/03
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Giacomo Magnini wrote:

>> The browser inside the app suite will be called navigator.

> Ok, great. I just wonder about the mess for the help files:
> will we have 2 versions of Mozilla Help, one for Navigator
> and the other for Mozilla Browser?

Why should we? The App Suite will be abandoned by mozilla.org after
the 1.4-release.

Michael Lefevre

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May 13, 2003, 11:25:31 AM5/13/03
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I imagine that will be necessary, yes. the UI for Mozilla (Firebird)
Browser is quite different from the UI from the current App Suite... as a
result, we'll probably have no help files at least initially... there is
the Mozilla Firebird help site, which is better than website docs for
the Mozilla app suite...

--
Michael

Boris Zbarsky

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May 13, 2003, 10:56:51 AM5/13/03
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Giacomo Magnini wrote:

> Ok, great. I just wonder about the mess for the help files: will we have
> 2 versions of Mozilla Help, one for Navigator and the other for Mozilla
> Browser?

One would hope so, since help describes things for end-users and the two
browsers look quite different to end-users...

Boris Zbarsky

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May 13, 2003, 11:47:38 AM5/13/03
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Giacomo Magnini wrote:

> I (as a translator) would like a definitive (official?) answer on this,
> since translating the Help files takes/will take a *huge* amount of
> time. If the two help systems will be different and the old one is going
> to be discarded

It will be "discarded" just like 1.0 was "discarded", which is to say
that browsers based on the 1.4 code will likely be shipping at least a
year hence. Cessation of development does not imply cessation of use.

Of course, I'm not sure whether said browser would (or would even be
able to) use the SeaMonkey help. That's up to the people shipping those
browsers...

Giacomo Magnini

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May 13, 2003, 11:38:32 AM5/13/03
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Michael Lefevre wrote:

> I imagine that will be necessary, yes. the UI for Mozilla (Firebird)
> Browser is quite different from the UI from the current App Suite... as a
> result, we'll probably have no help files at least initially... there is
> the Mozilla Firebird help site, which is better than website docs for
> the Mozilla app suite...

I (as a translator) would like a definitive (official?) answer on this,

since translating the Help files takes/will take a *huge* amount of
time. If the two help systems will be different and the old one is going

to be discarded, we will stop translating *now* and see what we'll be
able to save for 1.5... Translating a few hundreds KBs of English text
and then have to throw them in the trashcan is not amusing...
Cheers, Giacomo.

Grey Hodge / jesus X

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May 14, 2003, 4:32:05 PM5/14/03
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On 5/13/2003 11:13 AM Simon Paquet cranked up the brainbox and said:
> Why should we? The App Suite will be abandoned by mozilla.org after
> the 1.4-release.

This is not correct. It will be retired from active development, but will live
on as the long term stability branch, replacing the 1.0.x branch. It will still
receive critical fixes and such over the year following it's release.

--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
email [ jesus_x @ mozillanews.org ]
web [ http://www.mozillanews.org ]
insult [ As usual, you've been a real pantload. ]
warning [ Don't touch that! You might mutate your fingers. ]

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