Wine bottle bottoms
John White
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to
net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?)
on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the
quality of the wine therein?
I have a friend who sez this, but I'm pretty sure it's
B.S. (I mean after all, what are they gonna have, a wine dish depth
meter? And a council they busts you if you use the wrong depth? :-) )
If anyone knows (and I knows there's one of you) about
this, and can back me up or explain the subtleties (sp?) of this
dish depth dilema, it would be apreciated.
Thanks in advance,
-Whitey Johnson.
Scott Rotondo
The indentation on the bottom of the bottle (called a punt) exists to
add strength to the bottle, particularly for Champagne. Some also claim
that it provides a place to hold the bottle while pouring, but I see
no point to this. In cases where the strength of the bottle is not an
issue (ordinary wine bottles), I believe the depth is arbitrary.
-- Scott
Peter Eichenberger
> net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?)
> on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the
> quality of the wine therein?
The depth of the indentation depends upon what the winery orders and is
willing to pay for. The quality of the wine in the bottle is not able
to change the shape of the bottle!
The main purpose for the indentation (punt) is so that the sediment from the
wine (once the bottle has been stood up prior to serving) becomes somewhat
more compact and does not get quite as stirred up when pouring.
One would expect, then, that the depth (or existence) of the punt would
depend upon whether the wine has been filtered, and whether is is intended
to be aged a long time.
It appears that in reality the shape of the bottle depends on either
local custom or on marketing and economic considerations.
Brian Gordon
>In article <9...@ritcv.UUCP> jaw...@ritcv.UUCP (John White) writes:
>>
>> Sorry if this has been brought up before, but I'm new to
>> net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?)
>> on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the
>> quality of the wine therein?
>
>The indentation on the bottom of the bottle (called a punt) exists to
>add strength to the bottle, particularly for Champagne. Some also claim
>that it provides a place to hold the bottle while pouring, but I see
>no point to this. In cases where the strength of the bottle is not an
>issue (ordinary wine bottles), I believe the depth is arbitrary.
Not quite arbitrary. The way it was explained to me was that it was a way of
varying volume without distorting the (presumably recognizable) size/shape of
the bottle itself. Given the zillions of laws covering tax on wines in various
countries/states/etc., it is highly desirable to be able to package quarts,
fifths, 750ml, etc. bottles for different markets. Now that all(?) wine is
packed in metric containers, the need is presumably somewhat less that it used
to be.
FROM: Brian G. Gordon, CAE Systems Division of Tektronix, Inc.
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In so far as I know, the depth of the bottom doesn't mean a thing.
However, certain wines are traditionally bottled in certain shaped
bottles. All the German wines of quality are in the same sort of
bottle, but if I remember correctly, Burgandys, Bojolais, and Bordeuxes
all have slightly different bottles.
Also, Champaigne bottles have a deep indentation so that you can
pour them elegently. You cup your hand slightly with your fingers
supporting the bottle's side, and your thumb in the hollow area.
Precarious as this sounds, there is no risk of dropping it, unless
you are a total klutz.
Marc Epstein
>>My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?)
>>on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the
>>quality of the wine therein?
>
>bottle) is there to collect the sediment thrown by the wine as it ages.
> ...
>I don't know why Champagne bottles
>have such large punts, as they don't throw much sediment as a rule.
>--
>Susan Gauch
>gauchs@unc decvax!mcnc!unc!gauchs
I believe Champage bottles have such large indentations in the bottom
so that the bottles can withstand the high pressure (eg. greater surface
area ...).
marc epstein
ihnp4!mtunh!mie
ro...@raster.uucp
they are the U.S. branch of Moet Chandon. In the tour, they explained
that in the early days of champagne production, the pressure of the
second fermentation would burst most of the bottles. The indentation,
or "punt", was created to distribute the pressure over a larger area.
It usually took up most of the volume of the bottle, leaving little room
for the champagne. This was necessary because the glass of the period
was relatively weak. With today's superior glass making, the punt is
no longer necessary, but remains for tradition - and yes, as a fancy way
to pour.
By the way - the Domaine Chandon "Blanc de Noirs" is excellent.
Happy bubbles.....
Ross Werner
!decvax!raster!ross
Mark Scheevel
>By the way - the Domaine Chandon "Blanc de Noirs" is excellent.
>
>Ross Werner
I second Ross' (Ross's?) recommendation. Also, we had a bottle
of Piper-Sonoma last week to celebrate our daughter's birth, and
it was excellent as well. I believe Piper-Sonoma is the same
sort of deal as Domaine Chandon: it is brought to you by the
same people that bring you Piper-Heidsick (sp?).
--
Mark Scheevel
MCC, Parallel Processing
Austin, Texas
arpa: sche...@mcc.com
uucp: {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!im4u!milano!mcc-pp!mark
Dan Graifer
I once heard that the indentation on the bottom of a champagne bottle was to
take the compressional stress when the bottle is recorked after disgorgement.
The bottle is held by a (usually wooden) cone that fits into the depression.
P.S. I am also very fond of D-C Blanc de Noirs.
Dan Graifer
gra...@net1.UCSD.EDU
Ihor W. Slabicky
> net.wines. My question: does the depth of the indentation (dish?)
> on the bottom of a bottle of wine have anything to do with the
> quality of the wine therein?
It is a little know but true fact that the shape of the bottom of the
wine bottle (and beer bottle) does in fact indicate the quality of
the contents. As other posters have stated, some bottles have indentations
in the bottom, as in champagne and cognac bottles. These are called punts,
and were originally used to strengthen the glass and to permit sediment to
settle to the bottom. (I save these bottles and use them for my own
wines, to let the sediment settle around the punt then decant them until
just before the punt is reached.) As is know, both champagne and cognac
is generally a high quality drink. Other bottles which may not have a
punt, still have a flat bottom. In either case, when the bottle is opened
and stood up, it remains standing. There are, however, certain bottles
with reverse punts or obverse punts where the indentation actually goes
out of the bottom and forms a round bottom. When these obverse punt
bottles are opened and stood up, the round bottom causes them to promptly
tip over and spill the contents, thereby indicating the contents are not
fit to drink.
These reverse or obverse punts are called, yeah, they're, they're
called stnups. Yeah, that's it...