Painless Suicide Methods: Are we discussing an illegal topic?
Prince Caspian
I know there was a *big* discussion recently on "should it be legal?"
Two points:
1) While it remains an opinion, I and (I believe) many others hold suicide
as an act should be illegal and prevented at any cost. For me, this
is also a "case 2" opinion.... (I.E. opinion held by God=LAW... See my
disclaimer....)
2) This opinion is held by most if not all world governments. Suicide
*is* illegal and should be discouraged. It is also likely to remain
illegal so far as I am aware.
3) Net policy forbids both requests and responses as to information
on *how to perform illegal acts*. (I am not trying to net.admin
here. See below. For now, please take it that I am *stating a fact*
and leave it at that....)
4) The fact that the poster who started all this (sorry if I can't
remember your name at the moment) requested info on an illegal act
(painless suicide) without a smiley etc. represents some form
of *intent*. Intent to suicide should not be bypassed.
The "illegality" as far as the net policy violation represented by
his request should of course be ignored. As most of the people
in this group are no doubt aware, *this was a cry for help*....
5) It is my considered opinion that some poster(s) have been
positively *cruel* in actually offering this person suggestions
as to painless methods. That seems tantamount to saying,
"If you really want to, go ahead....here's how!"
Whoever you are, you have not only spit in the face of net policy,
but also *at least* severely shocked a potential suicide.
*THINK: Someone may now be *dead* because of your "advice".
I don't really care whether you thought you were making a joke or
not....*you can't afford to assume they weren't serious in
the intent to end their life!*
I believe there is an apology due somewhere....
I also hope to God the original poster (or anyone else...)
didn't take that advice.... are you still there?
If not, may your "counselor" share the same cell in Sheol....
Keywords:
--
- Prince Caspian of Narnia, AKA Francis X. Carmody
Electronic Adress (UUcp only:{hplabs,seismo}!hao!udenva!fcarmody}
OR: {boulder,cires,denelcor,cisden}!udenva!fcarmody
The above opinions are my own, noone else in the known galaxy should be held responsable, except in the rare cases where they coincide with the opinions of Almighty God... In the above case, any disagreement with said opinions should be refferred directly to Him....
:w
Sean Casey
I someone says to me "How do you rob a store?", and I say "Go into
the store with a gun and demand money.", am I breaking the law? Some
things are so obvious that iterating them here on the net cannot
possibly be illegal. What about freedom of speach?
Sean
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Casey UUCP: se...@ukma.uucp CSNET: se...@uky.csnet
University of Kentucky ARPA: ukma!se...@anl-mcs.arpa
Lexington, Kentucky BITNET: se...@ukma.bitnet
"Who's `we', sucker?"
Monica Cellio
net; you can't blame the net if someone did kill himself as a result of that
advice. Yes, it's questionable posting ethics; yes, it is illegal in *some*
places; yes, people should be doing other things in addition to answering
the question (like actually trying to help the person get to the root of his
problems). But the determined suicide will do it anyway, and the person
who's not really sure if he wants to die (consciously or subconsciously) will
not follow advice on lethal methods.
Besides, nothing has reached this site that wouldn't be obvious to anyone who
thought about the problem for five minutes. Maybe we've missed all the
really evil posts?
I'm not trying to make light of this issue; suicide must be taken seriously.
But I do think that Francis Carmody is over-reacting just a bit.
Disclaimer: I have never worked as a suicide prevention person, and have no
training in the field (other than a few scattered readings I've done on my
own). This are just my *impressions*. I welcome (beg for, actually) facts.
(It would be nice if they were polite....)
-Dragon
--
UUCP: seismo!rochester!cmu-cs-pt!!cmu-cs-cad!mjc or if that doesn't work:
{seismo, ihnp4, qantel, ucbvax!ucdavis} !lll-crg!dragon
ARPA: monica.cellio@cmu-cs-cad or dragon@lll-crg
Miles Murdocca
>I know there was a *big* discussion recently on "should it be legal?"
>3) Net policy forbids both requests and responses as to information
>on *how to perform illegal acts*. (I am not trying to net.admin
>here. See below. For now, please take it that I am *stating a fact*
>and leave it at that....)
Don't get bent out of shape about the discussion. It's all been academic
so far.
I can't think of a method of suicide that is totally painless, including
death while unconcsious because there will probably be stress involved
until one goes under (no pun intended). I would guess that the
schizophrenics have it easy. Half the mind could decide on suicide
without the other half knowing anything about it. My suggestion to
the original poster is to go crazy first and then you'll have nothing
to worry about.
Roses are red,
Viloets are blue;
I'm schizophrenic,
And I am too.
Miles Murdocca, 4G-538, AT&T Bell Laboratories, Crawfords Corner Rd,
Holmdel, NJ, 07733, (201) 949-2504, ...{ihnp4}!vax135!miles
Robert Ziegler
In article <13...@vax135.UUCP> mi...@vax135.UUCP (Miles Murdocca) writes:
[...]
>Don't get bent out of shape about the discussion. It's all been academic
>so far.
>
>I can't think of a method of suicide that is totally painless, including
>death while unconcsious because there will probably be stress involved
>until one goes under (no pun intended). I would guess that the
>schizophrenics have it easy. Half the mind could decide on suicide
>without the other half knowing anything about it. My suggestion to
>the original poster is to go crazy first and then you'll have nothing
>to worry about.
>
> Roses are red,
> Viloets are blue;
> I'm schizophrenic,
> And I am too.
>
> Miles Murdocca, 4G-538, AT&T Bell Laboratories, Crawfords Corner Rd,
> Holmdel, NJ, 07733, (201) 949-2504, ...{ihnp4}!vax135!miles
As long as current discussions have been in flame mode,
1. You are describing a rare neurotic condition known as split
personality, not the relatively common, psychotic condition known as
schizophrenia, which is a cognitive disorder. Approximately 1 in every
100 people in the U.S. are afflicted with schizophrenia.
2. If you were schizophrenic, you probably wouldn't be making fun of
it. The prognosis for people with the affliction is poor, and if the
condition occurs before the age of 30, the prognosis is almost hopeless.
Having worked in a pilot project aimed at keeping young schizophrenics
out of the institutions and functioning independently in mainstream
society, I can say that my impression of people with the disease is one
of courage that isn't seen in "normal" people, and oftentimes one of
exemplary humanity, as well. If there is a hell on earth, these people
are in it, through no fault of their own. Their suicide rates are also
very high, although I can't remember any figures on it.
3. If you feel so secure in and superior due to your own mental
health, may I suggest that you do some volunteer work with these people.
Mental health is a precious state to be protected and nourished, becuase
it is so easily lost. The difference between "them" and "us" is a
matter of degree, and that's about it. One can learn a lot about being
human from these people. If you're lucky, you may even grow through
their pain, rather than having to experience it yourself.
Grrrrrr,
Robert L. Ziegler
Leonard Bottleman
>4) The fact that the poster who started all this (sorry if I can't
>remember your name at the moment) requested info on an illegal act
>(painless suicide) without a smiley etc. represents some form
>of *intent*. Intent to suicide should not be bypassed.
>The "illegality" as far as the net policy violation represented by
>his request should of course be ignored. As most of the people
>in this group are no doubt aware, *this was a cry for help*....
First of all, I believe that it is a person's right to kill himself,
and that suicide is a valid option to take to end a life of suffering.
Second, the original poster said something like "out of morbid
curiosity", which indicates that he was not interested in killing
himself. Some people do prefer to use the English language to express
what they mean rather than relying on keyboard graphics.
>5) It is my considered opinion that some poster(s) have been
>positively *cruel* in actually offering this person suggestions
>as to painless methods. That seems tantamount to saying,
>"If you really want to, go ahead....here's how!"
>Whoever you are, you have not only spit in the face of net policy,
>but also *at least* severely shocked a potential suicide.
>*THINK: Someone may now be *dead* because of your "advice".
>I don't really care whether you thought you were making a joke or
>not....*you can't afford to assume they weren't serious in
>the intent to end their life!*
If I wanted to kill myself and asked for information on how to do
so in a painless way, I would consider it cruel for someone to
lecture me on how wrong he thought suicide to be.
>I believe there is an apology due somewhere....
It seems that the only person offended is you, and if you find the
discussion of suicide distasteful, you can always hit the 'n' key,
or unsubscribe from the newsgroup.
Leonard Bottleman
ihnp4!akgua!cylixd!elf
"Like, for this cat, the only reality is death."
dcgoricanec
I would imagine people with split personalities would have a suicide rate
oh,maybe 2,3,4 or even 5 times average ... 8-)(