mr. insensitive speaks out
ron vaughn
> Sorry, Beth; your
>article isn't really insensitive like the one you were following up;
the one she was following up to was mine. insensitive, am i??? i thought
it was VERY sensitve, very accurate. at least i'm sensitive to the feelings
from other people on the net. you on the other hand are still going about your
ways, rambling on about the same old "oh woe is me" shit. can you
be "sensitive" enough to wake up and smell the coffee?? hell no. don't
call ME insensitive in public, mr. "damn everyone else, it's my group, and
i'll trash it up with my garbage all i want, no matter WHAT they say",
that's YOUR opinion. you want everyone elses opinion?? good, that's why
i'm here.
the current vote for net.singles.js:
FOR the creation of net.singles.js: 11
AGAINST (or neutral) : 0
one other said we shouldn't automatically make it, but debate. (although
(s)he called you a few nasty names...) three said they've wanted to
write the letter i wrote, but hadn't worked themselves up to it. 3 said
they used to reply to you, but gave up, "he never listens anyway". one
person blessed me, one person mentioned dirty-harry and "putting him out
of our misery". one person did point out that if we DID have a net.singles.js,
no one would subscribe.
this is from people who have mailed directly to me. there have been others
on the net who have publicly said "yes", but i haven't counted them. i guess
it would be MUCH easier to count the people who are FOR you. let's see....
there's you.........and........well, there's you.............of course,
you're counted..........and.......uhmmmmm..........
there probably IS a handfull of people (out of the hundreds who read
net.singles) that probably might back you (although none really have...)
again, i hate looking like the big bad guy, but PLEASE try to see our side!!
you think i'm joking about proposing a net.singles.js??
i don't like trashing up net.singles with letters like theses, then when
i look at what it is compared to YOUR droolings, i feel much better.....
hell, you didn't care enough about this group to even vote!! you
could have had at least one for you.....,
MR. INSENSITIVE,
ron vaughn ...!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv
ps: wait!! i forgot my vote.....uhhhhh, well......geee, i dont' know,
he's such a nice guy........and he's sincere.......but then again.......
hmmmmmmm.......12-0! (and counting)
Jeff Sargent
The point, ron vaughn, was that you spoke out in such a contemptuous manner.
One can make the same (somewhat valid) points as you did in a much more
civilized fashion; Ken Kaufman was quite on the mark in referring to your
remarks as "thoughtless". It seems that *you* have failed to learn some things
that *I* have learned, and that perhaps you ought to be putting *yourself* down
if you are honest -- or, rather, in order to do something constructive,
learning a few principles of common courtesy in your dealings with people.
>>> ICE OFF <<<
I observe that Mr. Kaufman's article includes a vote against the creation of
net.singles.js; thus the shutout is destroyed. Of course, I second that vote.
I suspect that those participants who are more tolerant of me (and of people
in general) are not bothering to vote, since they will continue to be
supportive and understanding.
Also, if you note carefully, my more recent postings have not been of the
"I'm such a terrible person" variety, but rather "it's such a terrible world."
That is a step in the right direction. How is the world so terrible? In
that, as far as I can tell, love is all work and pain, and does not provide
any fun or any joy. This could be inferred from passages near the end of
that heavily-recommended book, "The Road Less Traveled", wherein Scott Peck
talks about how a truly, thoroughly loving person will be thinking all the
time (does s/he never get to blow off an evening?), and about the aloneness
of one who has achieved great spiritual growth. Sure sounds like a no-win
setup to me. Comments?
--
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
"Grate on the Lord, get on His nerves, and you shall get what you want...." :-)
kau...@uiucdcs.uucp
/* Written 1:06 am Jan 18, 1985 by aeq@pucc-h> in uiucdcs:net.singles */
I observe that Mr. Kaufman's article includes a vote against the creation of
net.singles.js; thus the shutout is destroyed. Of course, I second that vote.
I suspect that those participants who are more tolerant of me (and of people
in general) are not bothering to vote, since they will continue to be
supportive and understanding.
-- Jeff Sargent
/* End of text from uiucdcs:net.singles */
I don't think I actually said that. But, now that you've provoked me to fully
state my position, I will. I think the concept of a net.singles.js is funny,
even silly. I've been too busy laughing at the whole deal to dignify it with
a vote, either pro or con. Instead, I've been trying to exploit the lighter
side of the matter. I hope someone found my previous statements at least
somewhat humorous.
Now, for a specific statement of position: I can see that Jeff's postings may
have created an imbalance in the makeup of net.singles, at least different
from what it would be without his influence. This I do not see as necessarily
bad; in fact, I feel the net thrives on a its strong personalities with their
prolific postings. I've often wished I could be as verbose and articulate on
my CRT as some of them are. These people have my respect, even when I do not
agree with a lot of their submissions. Everyone knows who Jeff, Chuq, and some
others - you can figure out who - are. Jeff may overload, but as long as he
stays relevant, I have few qualms.
As for the creation of net.singles.js, while the idea seems palatable on the
surface, I feel that creating a notesfile for the purposes of one single living
(thus avoiding rebuttals wrt net.tv.drwho) person is a dangerous precedent.
Even doing it for a public figure (such as net.flame.reagan) is borderline at
best. Regardless, my bad feelings about it would quintuple if Jeff were to
be barred from the main net.singles. All in all, I suppose that does add up to
a no vote. Enough Sargent slaughter!
Ken Kaufman (uiucdcs!kaufman)
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of the Shell Oil
Company. Then again, they are not my employer. But I do have a credit card
from them.
gam
> net.singles.js; thus the shutout is destroyed. Of course, I second that vote.
> I suspect that those participants who are more tolerant of me (and of people
> in general) are not bothering to vote, since they will continue to be
> supportive and understanding.
It's not that we don't want people to be suportive and understanding
with you, Jeff; we just want you to do it *somewhere else*.
--
Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!gam
Chuqui Q. Koala
>It's not that we don't want people to be suportive and understanding
>with you, Jeff; we just want you to do it *somewhere else*.
>--
>Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!gam
I should point out that Gordon used the wrong pronoun. 'We' should have
been 'I'. You may be a lot of things, Gordon, but fortunately you aren't
two of them.
Have you people bothered to listen to yourselves? The word inhumane comes
to mind. I haven't seen such actions since the third grade playground where
kids were ostracized for being kids. I wouldn't talk like this around my
dog, much less another person, and in case you've forgotten Jeff IS a
person. I hope that all of you who have been so quick to condemn Jeff have
friends just as supportive to you as you are to Jeff the next time you need
some friendly advice.
argh.
me
--
From the ministry of silly talks: Chuq Von Rospach
{allegra,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chu...@decwrl.ARPA
National Semiconductor does not require useless disclaimers on posted
material that is obviously not posted by company spokesmen...
Monica Cellio
>>It's not that we don't want people to be suportive and understanding
>>with you, Jeff; we just want you to do it *somewhere else*.
>>--
>>Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!gam
>
>I should point out that Gordon used the wrong pronoun. 'We' should have
>been 'I'. You may be a lot of things, Gordon, but fortunately you aren't
>two of them.
No, he can't speak for the whole group, but he can use the plural.
>I hope that all of you who have been so quick to condemn Jeff have
>friends just as supportive to you as you are to Jeff the next time you need
>some friendly advice.
If what he wanted was friendly advice, there wouldn't be a problem.
Unfortunately, what he seems to want is a chance to say, "I have more
problems than any of you and I need to complain about them, but I'll ignore
all your advice because nothing can help me." Multiple times. Between that
and his insistence that religion is the answer for everyone except himself,
I think we (Gordon, me, and anyone else who wants to be considered in the
"we") can justifiably get annoyed.
-Dragon
--
UUCP: ...ucbvax!dual!lll-crg!dragon
ARPA: monica.cellio@cmu-cs-cad or dragon@lll-crg
Sunny Kirsten
> in general) are not bothering to vote, since they will continue to be
> supportive and understanding.
No, just didn't want to either flame nor play the "yes, but" game with you.
>
> love is all work and pain, and does not provide
> any fun or any joy. This could be inferred from passages near the end of
> that heavily-recommended book, "The Road Less Traveled", wherein Scott Peck
> talks about how a truly, thoroughly loving person will be thinking all the
> time (does s/he never get to blow off an evening?), and about the aloneness
> of one who has achieved great spiritual growth. Sure sounds like a no-win
> setup to me. Comments?
Yes, please start seeing your shrink from 2 to 20 times as often as you do now.
>
From "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran
Then said Almitra, Speak to us of Love.
And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a
stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said:
When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings infold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks toyou believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste
the garden.
For Even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for
your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches
that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to
the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred
bread for God's sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of
your heart, and in that knowledge becomea fragment of Life's heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of
love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your
laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes not but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather,
"I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds
you worthy, directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night,
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day
of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstacy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep witha prayer for the beloved in your heart and a
song of praise upon your lips.
Then Amitra spoke again and said, And what of Marriage, master?
And he answered saying:
You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another, but make not a bond of love;
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the
same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.
--
{ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny
gam
> >It's not that we don't want people to be suportive and understanding
> >with you, Jeff; we just want you to do it *somewhere else*.
> >--
> >Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,sun}!amdahl!gam
>
> I should point out that Gordon used the wrong pronoun. 'We' should have
> been 'I'. You may be a lot of things, Gordon, but fortunately you aren't
> two of them.
No, I am *all* of them.
This "we" refers to the circa 25 people who so far voiced their
approval of net.singles.js. Including me.
> Have you people bothered to listen to yourselves? The word inhumane comes
> to mind. I haven't seen such actions since the third grade playground where
> kids were ostracized for being kids.
No, you are quite right. Jeff *is* getting picked on. But it is
not inhumane. And it isn't like third graders. No one is saying
"Jeff, you putrid scum, your mother wears army boots!" Not at all.
But they are saying "Jeff, you are becoming a self-parody and we've
lost patience with you. Whatever help you may need you either aren't
getting it here or it isn't helping."
I understand Jeff has a therapist. I think this is wonderful. I
don't think he is mentally ill, but there is some "work to be done"
which a therapist can facilitate.
If Jeff is truly in need of the council of friends he should probably
do it in a more private, approving atmosphere; this newsgroup certainly
isn't providing it.
It is not unreasonable to expect people to listen to so much sorrow and
whining and self-pity that they eventually sicken of it. They
would rather excise the problem than give up on the group
altogether. And when such crises have arrose, there is naturally
a plea to create a new newsgroup that can provide an apparently
needed function.
Why, this is just net dynamics in action.
Chuq, I think it's wonderful that you are willing to
spend the time and energy to help Jeff in whatever areas he may
need it. Why not do this via e-mail? Or, if it requires
a public showing, why not devote an entire newsgroup soley for that
purpose? I understand there is a lot of interest in creating such
a group.
mar...@ism780.uucp
<Also, if you note carefully, my more recent postings have not been of the
<"I'm such a terrible person" variety, but rather "it's such a terrible world."
<That is a step in the right direction. How is the world so terrible? In
<any fun or any joy. This could be inferred from passages near the end of
<that heavily-recommended book, "The Road Less Traveled", wherein Scott Peck
<talks about how a truly, thoroughly loving person will be thinking all the
<time (does s/he never get to blow off an evening?), and about the aloneness
<of one who has achieved great spiritual growth. Sure sounds like a no-win
>setup to me. Comments?
<-- Jeff Sargent
where's my violin?? .....uuummmmmm.... oh here it is. now what was that
song?? oh yes........ dum, dee, dum ......my heart bleeds for you.
Henry Mensch
Every so often there is a statement that perhaps JS is an
artificial intelligence project similar to MVS ...
This is untrue ... JS is alive and <whatever> and here at
Purdue ...
--
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Henry C. Mensch | User Confuser | Purdue University User Services
{ihnp4|decvax|ucbvax|purdue|uiucdcs|cbosgd|harpo}!pur-ee!pucc-i!ag5
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"...Always reach for a Hamilton Beach..
It slices, it dices, and it disciplines the children."