re Re Seat belts, Helmets and Freedom of Choice
kgd...@watbun.uucp
>From: ju...@ur-tut.UUCP (Jan Vandenbrande)
>
>> ...However, I opposed the enaction of the
>>mandatory seatbelt law in California for the same reason I oppose mandatory
>>helmet laws; it's my business what I do with my body....
> Indeed it is anyones business what they do with their body.
>But who pays for a person to be patched up after an accident? The insurance.
>And who pays the insurance? Right, we all do (so I hope). And now it
>becomes my business too. If I indirectly have to pay for you to be
>scraped from the pavement and be reassembled, I'd rather have your,
>mine and everyone's elses freedom diminished a bit by requiring
>everyone to wear protective devices such as helmets, seatbelts, etc.
>The small sacrifice is worth the benefit.
>
There are studies that show how helmets cause more damage than they
save (such as spinal injuries) and cause GREATER insurance costs.
When there is impact with the head, the greatest damage comes from
SUDDEN DECELERATION of the brain against the skull, helmets don't help.
The safety of helmets is NOT CUT AND DRY, and as such I see it
as a particulary rude intrusion on my rights when I'm forced by law to
wear one.
In many states were there are no helmet laws, but have driver-rider education
programs, the number of collisions, head-injuries and over-all medical
costs are GREATLY REDUCED. And the savings are greater than the cost
of the educational programs.
Also, most fatal or very serious accidents involving
motorcyclists not wearing helmets have been with some combination of
- unlicenced rider
- drunk
- drugs
- voilation of laws (speeding)
The majority of motorcyclists just dont get into head-splitting accidents.
I have been involved in several accidents caused by external-forces, and
its always been leg injuries!
- Ken Dykes
{ihnp4,decvax,allegra,utzoo}!watmath!watbun!kgdykes
EDUCATE DON'T LEGISLATE!
All of the good ones are taken.
>
>>From: ju...@ur-tut.UUCP (Jan Vandenbrande)
>When there is impact with the head, the greatest damage comes from
>SUDDEN DECELERATION of the brain against the skull, helmets don't help.
This is the second such claim I have seen, and I'd love to have
someone explain it. My understanding is that the human head can
safely decellerate at about 80 gees, and that with a good helmet
a 200 gee decelleration can be reduced to below 80 for the head.
In other words, the only thing a helmet really can do is lessen
the severity of a decelleration. The relative accelleration of
the brain vs the skul has got to be proportional to the accelleration
being applied to the skull by the sidewalk, right?
--
--Craig
...{ucbvax,sun}!pixar!good
Ron DeBlock
Craig, you are on the right track. I am not sure about the numbers you claim
and I have no way to look them up. Some references, please?
Helmets and seatblets (and "controlled crush" in car frames) work by
absorbing some of the energy of impact, thereby reducing the amount of energy
that must be absorbed by the skull and other parts of the body.
In effect, the rate of decelleration is DECREASED. In a helmet, the plastic
shell flexes to absorb some energy, the rest is aborbed the the foam lining.
My brother's helmet SPLIT IN TWO in a crash (this was NOT a cheap helmet).
He messed up his leg and get lots of scrapes, but there was NO damage to
his head. The helmet he was wearing was certified to pass the Snell test
(I think) which involves dropping a heavy, pointed object onto the helmet,
which must sustain no damage. I don't remember the weight or height of the
object, but your head would NOT survive such a test. Maybe someone could
enlighten us.
--
Ron DeBlock KA2IKT
uucp: ...!{allegra, ihnp4}!bellcore!argus!ron
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kgd...@watbun.uucp
>From: ju...@ur-tut.UUCP (Jan Vandenbrande)
>
>> ...However, I opposed the enaction of the
>>mandatory seatbelt law in California for the same reason I oppose mandatory
>>helmet laws; it's my business what I do with my body....
> Indeed it is anyones business what they do with their body.
>But who pays for a person to be patched up after an accident? The insurance.
>And who pays the insurance? Right, we all do (so I hope). And now it
>becomes my business too. If I indirectly have to pay for you to be
>scraped from the pavement and be reassembled, I'd rather have your,
>mine and everyone's elses freedom diminished a bit by requiring
>everyone to wear protective devices such as helmets, seatbelts, etc.
>The small sacrifice is worth the benefit.
Insurance costs would be greatly reduced (and risks to innocent bystanders)
if cigarettes and alcohol were totally illegal.
They cost society lots of money, they dont have "benefits" in any
real measurable sense, why are they tolerated? (except for the political
expediency of keeping certain industries economically healthy, and
are great tax-revenue sources)
- Ken Dykes
Software Development Group, U. of Waterloo
{ihnp4,decvax,allegra,utzoo}!watmath!watbun!kgdykes
Mojo Jones
> (I think) which involves dropping a heavy, pointed object onto the helmet,
> which must sustain no damage.
> Ron DeBlock KA2IKT
> uucp: ...!{allegra, ihnp4}!bellcore!argus!ron
The Snell test was changed in 1985. Most current helmets will carry
the "Snell M85" sticker. The penetration test was changed from a sharp
object to an I-beam about the size of a highway guard rail. They felt
this was a more realistic test, I'm told. The M in the M85 means the
helmet passed the motorcycle requirements, which are different from
the automobile requirements.
Helmets *significantly* reduce the deceleration of the brain against
the skull. Thanks all for helping point that out.
Kenneth Ng
> ...{ucbvax,sun}!pixar!good
Let's see how well I remember my physics. The cause of injury appears
to be rapid acceleration (negative). Acceleration is the change in
speed divided by the distance the change in speed occured. Therefore
if you stopped something in zero distance, infinite acceleration
occurs. My guess is that the helmet enlarges the distance in which
the skull decelerates, thus lowering the aceleration. Lowering the
deceleration of the skull in turn lowers the deceleration of the
brain. Did I miss anything?
--
Kenneth Ng:
Post office: NJIT - CCCC, Newark New Jersey 07102
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> someone explain it. My understanding is that the human head can
> safely decellerate at about 80 gees, and that with a good helmet
> a 200 gee decelleration can be reduced to below 80 for the head.
> In other words, the only thing a helmet really can do is lessen
> the severity of a decelleration. The relative accelleration of
> the brain vs the skul has got to be proportional to the accelleration
> being applied to the skull by the sidewalk, right?
>
>
> --
> --Craig
> ...{ucbvax,sun}!pixar!good
there are very delicate bundles of nerve fiber that connect the
forebrain to the rest of the brain. These are not the *only* connections
but they seem to be extremely important. when the brain receives a blow,
these nerves can actually be cut by the impact. look at a picture of a
brain someday. there's a big fissure that runs up the front.
_____
/ \
( _ | (rear)
-> T_____/ (most brains are slightly larger, but I made this
drawing by tracing around mine)
This is the reason a lot of old boxers suffer co-ordination
problems. high-divers and other people who regularly take jarring
impacts on the cranium also suffer from this form of slow brain damage.
it's like a lobotomy. remember, your optics are all running through
there, and they are vital to co-ordination and orientation.
When you hit a street with your head, your skull may survive just
fine, but the impact on your *BRAIN* is terrible. Nerve bundles can be
torn in several areas (other than just the forebrain)
even running hard, I seem to recall, can jar your brain enough
to kill cells. remember that the brain is about the consistency of butter.
(warm butter) and think about the tidal forces it's going to undergo when
it decelerates quickly. at highway speeds every little bit is going to
count a LOT.
if you hit straight on, it is actually less damaging than if you
bounce in such a way that your head skips. (like a stone) That will make
a mini-milkshake out of your CPU, cause bleeding, and a nasty hangover.
The upshot of all this is that you skull and bones can survive a lot of
damage - damage that can in fact turn you into a vegetable. Severe
shell-shock and pressure have been known to produce personality changes,
memory disorders, and a drop of IQ as mesured with standard tests. While
your skull may just get scraped and re-modeled, you may disqualify yourself
as a brain donor. Wear your helmet: every G counts.
Live Free.
mjr
--
*All opinions expressed aren't even mine, let alone those of Gould, Inc.*