FidoNET Newsletter, Volume 3, # 39
Tim Pozar
Volume 3, Number 39 13 October 1986
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| _ |
| / \ |
| /|oo \ |
| - FidoNews - (_| /_) |
| _`@/_ \ _ |
| International | | \ \\ |
| FidoNet Association | (*) | \ )) |
| Newsletter ______ |__U__| / \// |
| / FIDO \ _//|| _\ / |
| (________) (_/(_|(____/ |
| (jm) |
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Editor in Chief: Thom Henderson
Chief Procrastinator Emeritus: Tom Jennings
FidoNews is the official newsletter of the International FidoNet
Association, and is published weekly by SEAdog Leader, node 1/1.
You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission standards are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from node 1/1.
Copyright (C) 1986, by the International FidoNet Association.
All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted
for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances,
please contact IFNA.
The contents of the articles contained here are not our
responsibility, nor do we necessarily agree with them.
Everything here is subject to debate.
Table of Contents
1. ARTICLES
Ham Radio Oriented EchoMail Conference
MAGICK EchoMail Conference Profile
MAILCOST Review: A Reply from the Author
On the Commercial Exploitation of FidoNet
2. COLUMNS
dBASE Tips - Remember these basics
FidoUtil revisited
3. WANTED
Wanted: "Touchstone" software
4. FOR SALE
Public Domain Software Library Sale!!
5. NOTICES
The Interrupt Stack
Fidonews Page 2 13 Oct 1986
=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================
John Dashner, WA4CYB
Fido 133/10
Ham Radio EchoMail Conference
With the increasing overlap of bulletin board interest and those
with interest in Ham Radio, it is passing strange to me that
someone has not started this conference long ago, but alas, as
Thom Henderson has said before, it's almost always left up to
someone taking the bull by the horns and giving it a tug, so here
goes...
Many of you presently run boards that specialize in some
particular aspect of the Amateur Radio hobby such as Packet
Radio, Contesting, VHF/UHF, etc. The greatest service you could
do is to disseminate the great ideas, yes, even groundbreaking
ideas that originate with your users. In turn, you would receive
a like service funnelled into your board from all over the
country and perhaps the world. Moreover, there probably isn't a
problem you are experiencing that hasn't been solved by some
fellow ham somewhere. If I can judge by the responsiveness of
the National Technical Conference, I have seen multiple fixes for
problems submitted there returned in as little as two days. You
just can't ask for better service than that! Compare that to
submitting it to "QST" or "Ham Radio" and awaiting some future
issue for your answer. (You guys up there in Newington listening?
Hope "QST" will sign up as a conference node quickly).
To this end, I have established a National Ham Radio Conference
anchored in the north woods of Atlanta, Georgia with the hope
that I won't be left on my own to make it interesting, lively,
informative and factual. The name of the conference is simply:
HAM and as of this moment, -I- am the only official node in the
conference. Although, very soon, I hope to have Marv Shelton,
WA2BFW at 107/319 and Rene Champagne, VE2RI at 167/101, as
additional distribution nodes (and, yes, Rene, you'll need to get
EchoMail up to do this). This would take care of the southeast,
mid-Atlantic and eastern Canada as a start. What is needed, is
about 10 to 15 other nodes about the country (and the WORLD!) to
step up to the bar and volunteer; what say you guys?
To review what is needed, without going into an exhaustive
EchoMail tutorial, is to:
1. Set up an appropriate directory to contain
your conference.
2. Place a DIR.BBS in the directory identifying
what the conference or message area is all
about. Mine reads:
National Amateur Radio Conference
Fidonews Page 3 13 Oct 1986
3. Add an entry in your AREAS.BBS file something
like the following:
9 HAM 107/319 167/101
_ \_/ \___________/
| | |
| | +----> Nodes TO WHICH you
| | distribute.
| |
| +--------------> The EchoMail Name.
|
+-----------------> The number of the
SYSTEMnn.BBS file
associated with
your message or
conference area.
One important reminder. Since you can always
receive EchoMail, unless you expect to
distribute EchoMail to other nodes than your
pickup node, do not list any other nodes.
4. If this is your first EchoMail conference, you
will need to create a special event prior to
and immediately after the National Mail Hour
to run the EchoMail utilities, Scanmail and
Tossmail respectively. Mine are:
4 ALL 03:55 1 X 4
5 ALL 05:30 1 X 5
Which instructs Fido to schedule an eXternal
event of one minute duration at 03:55 with
return code 4 and another one at 05:30 with
return code 5 every day.
5. Add to your RUNBBS.BAT the following:
if errorlevel 5 goto postmail
if errorlevel 4 goto premail
.
.
:premail *** EchoMail Preparation
scanmail run >>echomail.log
arcmail to 133/10 (pickup node)
runbbs
:postmail *** EchoMail Distribution
arcmail from 133/10
tossmail run >>echomail.log
runbbs
Two matters I should note: If you haven't
discovered it already, the errorlevel test is
equivilent to "equal to or greater than" and
as illustrated above, you must test in
DESCENDING order to assure correct operation;
Fidonews Page 4 13 Oct 1986
and, the ARCMAIL step in the batch file
fragment above is optional but since -I- will
be distributing it that way, you will at least
have to unARC the stuff I send you and it does
significantly reduce transmission times and
thus LD moneys. I will leave it as an
exercise for the reader to decipher the
options used above by reading each utility's
documentation.
6. Unless your daddy left you a sizeable fortune
or your company installed a WATS line at your
house, you probably wouldn't want to foot the
bill for distribution to the nodes that you
serve long distance. Also, since I too am
poor, those of you picking up from my node
will have to POLL 133/10 in order to get your
nitely fare. In the ROUTE.? file that kicks
off your nitely National NetMail period, you
will have to insert the following (assumes
that you are calling me for pickup and you are
distributing to 999/100 and 998/2):
NO-ROUTE 999/100, 998/2
SEND-TO ALL
HOLD 999/100, 998/2
POLL 133/10
An analogous operation would be coded up by
each of your distribution nodes substituting
your node number for mine and less the NO-
ROUTE and HOLD stuff if they in turn do not
distribute.
To quote from the EchoMail Manual: "...the
best way to tie things together ... boards
always POLL upstream and HOLD downstream."
(If I err here or there is a simpler way to
accomplish this, I humbly await the onrush of
help that I am sure to receive [:-)} ).
7. Finally, after you're all set up, contact me
or the nearest node to you by NetMail or phone
and let us know when to hook you in and
whether you want all messages then currently
in the conference or just those originating
thereafter.
I started out by saying that I wasn't going to write an
exhaustive tutorial on EchoMail but from the looks of it I waxed
somewhat lengthy *grin* and I trust I haven't made it sound
tougher than it is.
As the topology of the conference develops, I will NetMail a
Conference Directory to major distribution nodes and publish it
Fidonews Page 5 13 Oct 1986
here from time to time. In this respect, I would appreciate
NetMail anytime you make a new connection or one is dropped so
that the directory can be kept accurate.
You may contact me, John Dashner WA4CYB:
via NetMail at 133/10 (404) 476-7970
via OldMail at 2792 Kenwood Dr., Duluth, Ga. 30136
via LandLine at (404) 476-1797
via 20 meters whenever I get my rig back from Kenwood!
(Note the street address - doesn't do any good)
In conclusion, I would like to thank Jeff Rush of the Rising Star
Fido (124/206) for conceiving of and implementing EchoMail. He
should be remembered by the networking historians for developing
a utility that gives you just about everything that UseNet does
without half the hassle. Without needing Jeff's permission, I am
sure that I can speak for him in saying that the best way to
remember him is to make shareware work by contributing $25.00 to
him so that he will be encouraged to further shorten the gap
between the EchoMail and UseNet functionallity. (Uh, Jeff, the
check's in the mail!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 6 13 Oct 1986
M A G I C K
The FidoNet Neopagan Witchcraft and Magick Conference
An Echomail Conference Profile
by J. Brad Hicks, Sysop WeirdBase (100/523)
MAGICK Conference Coordinator
In November of 1985, several U.S. Senators and Congressmen began
to introduce legislation which would have swept away nearly all
of the Neopagan churches, and which could have been used as a
weapon against any alternative religion. To combat these bills,
Circle Sanctuary (in Madison, Wisconsin) mailed out thousands of
flyers (all first-class mail) to everyone they knew of. The
expense was incredible, but worth it--all three bills died in
their respective committees (though the third one, HR 3389, was
an uphill fight all the way to the end of the session). In order
to reduce the expense, should the need arise again, the folks at
Circle suggested something they called the Pagan Strength Web.
It would be a mailing list designed to hit as many cities as pos-
sible as quickly as possible, where each contact would be respon-
sible for spreading the word within his or her city by phone and
personal contact. As a Pagan Strength Web contact myself, I saw
at once how FidoNet mail could be used to spread word quickly to
many cities, and so I buried notices in my next few articles for
FidoNews asking for fellow Crafters who use FidoNet to contact me
at 100/523.
About that time, Jeff Rush released Echomail. When my PSW FidoNet
mailing list and Echomail came together, the MAGICK Echomail con-
ference was born. Originally, the conference was built by
merging message areas from three boards: my Neopagan Witchcraft
area (on 100/523), Josh Gordon's introductory and miscellaneous
area (125/93, now 161/93), Mizmoon's astrology area (101/27). In
addition, Gene Clayton (12/4) expressed interest in polling for
it, and was followed almost immediately by Tom Kenny (107/316).
The growth of the MAGICK conference parallels the growth (and the
growing pains) of Echomail itself. In the beginning, our message
traffic was 2-4 messages per night (not per board per night, mind
you), and so I encouraged people to use host-routing and to route
all messages to all boards. This lasted for almost a month be-
fore rioting broke out. Nets 125 and 107 refused to host-route
Echomail, no matter how low the volume. Josh Gordon refused to
send mail to some of the boards. Each new sysop has made
d/e/m/a/n/d/s/ suggestions for what they wanted the topology to
look like. This led us through a series of patch-work topologies
to something approximating our current form. Then WeirdBase moved
to new hardware and SEAdog came out with a new version, and lo
and behold they weren't compatible, which meant we had to re-
design the topology all over again.
But in that same span of time, we settled down into a topology
that works, more or less, and expanded beyond my wildest fanta-
sies. The MAGICK conference now shuttles an estimated 430 mes-
sages per month between 13 boards in 11 cities (in the US and
Fidonews Page 7 13 Oct 1986
Canada), with no round-trip longer than 5 days. The topics have
ranged from Discordian pranks to Thelemite texts, from distingui-
shing ourselves from Satanism to (in)tolerance of Christianity,
from Aleister Crowley to Laurie Cabot, from shamanism to UFOs and
the pyramids. The conversation is occasionally thought provoking,
often very funny, and almost without exception a Good Read for
folk interested in any aspect of Neopaganism, Wicca, magick,
Thelema, Discordianism, or any other aspect of New Age religion
and philosophy.
TECHNICAL SPECS: The MAGICK conference uses a stars-on-a-string
topology, with 100/523 and 161/93 as the major hubs, and 163/5 as
a secondary hub for Canada. All boards are using Echomail ver-
sion 1.31 (1.30 with the no-? patch by Josh Gordon). Most boards
are using ARCmail version 0.37 or 0.40. If you wish to connect
to the Magick conference, send a note to Brad Hicks at 100/523.
If you are not local to an existing MAGICK board, you will be
expected to POLL either 100/523 or 161/93 for it every night.
A nearly complete text of all of the discussions is available on
WeirdBase (100/523) in file area 1, as MAGICKON.01 to 29.
TOPOLOGY AS OF OCTOBER 2nd, 1986:
107/293 103/602 14/341
\ / /
v v v
12/4 <-> 12/14 --> 161/93 --> 100/523* --> 163/5 <-> 163/7
^ / \
/ v \
107/7 <-> 107/316 150/900 101/27
(The arrow-head shows which direction the call is made. If a
link has arrow-heads on both ends, then it's a local call and is
made both before and after--or should be. If a link has NO
arrow-heads, then mail is currently host-routed.)
AN OVERVIEW OF THE BOARDS IN THE CONFERENCE:
100/523 WEIRDBASE (St. Louis, Missouri) 1-314-389-9973 300/
1200 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Does not support SEAdog.
Sysop: Brad Hicks. Magick Conference Coordinator.
Magick conference may be read by any caller, including
first-time. Only validated callers may enter messages.
One of the largest magickal file collections in the
country; mildly Discordian BBS.
161/93 THELEMANET (Berkeley, California) 1-415-548-0163 300/
1200/2400 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Supports SEAdog.
Sysop: Josh Gordon. All callers may read and enter mes-
sages in the Magick conference. "Official" BBS of the
Ordo Templar Orientis (OTO), Boulaq Encampment. Many
files on Crowley and thelemic topics.
Fidonews Page 8 13 Oct 1986
100/27 DAVE'S FIDO (Gardner, Massachusetts) 1-617-632-1861
300/1200/2400 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Supports
SEAdog. Sysop: Dave Rene (MAGICK area sysop: Mizmoon).
All callers may read and enter messages in the Magick
conference. File area also features monthly horoscopes
by Mizmoon.
12/4 MEGA-KAUAI (Kauai, Hawaii) 1-808-245-2080 300/1200
baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Does not support SEAdog.
Sysop: Gene Clayton. All callers may read and enter
messages in the Magick conference. Files include much
of the contents of WeirdBase's magick area.
12/14 MEGA-KAUAI 2 (Kauai, Hawaii) 1-808-337-9280 300/1200/
2400 baud. Hours: 6pm-7am. Does not support SEAdog.
Sysop: Gene Clayton. Access only on request to 12/4.
Repeater board for the above, used by Gene to move mail
at 2400 baud.
107/293 BAPHONET-BY-THE-SEA (Brooklyn, New York) 1-718-499-9277
300/1200 baud (local callers may only be able to get
through at 300 baud). Hours: 24 hrs/day. Does not
support SEAdog. Sysop: Tony Iannoti. Access to the
Magick conference only by request to the sysop. Also a
Thelemic/OTO BBS, in conjunction with 161/93 above.
107/316 METATEK FIDO (Toms River, New Jersey) 1-201-286-2567
300/1200 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Supports SEAdog.
Sysop: Thomas Kenny. Access to the Magick conference
only by request to the sysop.
14/341 TERRABOARD (Minneapolis, Minnesota) 1-612-721-8967
300/1200/2400 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Does not sup-
port SEAdog. Sysop: David Dyer-Bennett. All callers
may read and enter messages into the Magick conference.
Semi-official BBS of Minn-StF, a science-fiction club.
107/7 SEABOARD (Clifton, NJ) 1-201-472-8065 300/1200/2400
baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Supports SEAdog. Sysop:
Kilgore Trout. Access to the Magick conference only by
request to the sysop.
103/602 HOUSE ATREIDES (Rowland Heights, California) 1-818-965-
7220 300/1200 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Does not sup-
port SEAdog. Sysops: George Clayton and Jammer B. All
callers may read and enter messages into the Magick
conference.
163/5 DATA/SFNET (Ottawa, Ontario) 1-613-726-1100 300/1200
baud. Hours: 8pm-8am, Tuesday thru Friday. Does not
support SEAdog. Sysop: Farrell McGovern. All callers
may read and enter messages in the MAGICK conference.
163/7 ELECTRIC BLUE (Ottawa, Ontario) 1-613-737-7994 300/
1200 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Does not support SEAdog.
Sysops: Harry and Kathy. All callers may read messages
Fidonews Page 9 13 Oct 1986
from the Magick conference, but only validated users may
enter messages.
150/900 K-9 & COMPANY (Newark, Delaware) 1-302-738-1170 300/
1200 baud. Hours: 24 hrs/day. Does not support SEAdog.
Sysop: Mike Jacobs. All callers may read and enter
messages in the Magick conference.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 10 13 Oct 1986
Tim Evans
Fido 114/1
I would first like to thank Jerry Hindle of 123/6 for his
comments on my program, MAILCOST. The lack of comments I have
received (either good or bad) has been the most disappointing
thing about writing the program.
The major point Jerry makes is that mailcost accounting needs to
be consistent with Fido's accounting. Why? Fido's accounting is
inconsistent with the actual telephone bill accounting, even if a
markup is considered to cover additional costs. (In Phoenix, a
message to California costs the same as a message to New York).
There was never any intent for the host or sysop to credit the
individual users with the savings, but hopefully to lower the
average cost per message for all users to all destinations.
Whether this savings was passed on or is used to cover additional
costs or even to make a profit was none of my concern.
Regarding your repair shop example, the cost (if different from
the original estimate) will always be at least half the estimate
- never more! I don't think that will cause too many complaints.
The other issue I see is whether MAILCOST should deal with
individual user costs or not. I could be wrong on this, but my
feelings are as follows: Fido handles all individual cost
accounting between the users and the sysops. MAILCOST was
designed to handle cost accounting between the host and the
sysops (nodes). While the host may also be the sysop or the user,
I think the 2 functions should be kept seperated. I don't think
the host needs to be concerned about the individual user's costs
- that is the sysop's job.
I could be wrong on my impressions on how the host accounting
should work. I will be writing an article for Fidonews to attempt
to generate some discussion on this issue. Thanks again for your
comments.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 11 13 Oct 1986
Kilgore Trout, 107/7
FidoNet Study Group
A Modest Proposal
for
The Commercial Exploitation of FidoNet
(Well it got your attention, didn't it?)
Various people are now coming to realize the enormous potential
in an electronic mail system based on PC's and autodial modems,
and are attempting to cash in on it. Given that this is already
happening, why don't we see what WE can do?
In FidoNet we have a large and sophisticated mail network already
in place which is capable of handling a large volume of mail
traffic with a good success rate for overnight delivery. The key
problem is how to take advantage of it, while not offending
anyone. Certain criteria must be met:
1) We must not offend the amateurs who comprise the net.
2) It must be possible for any given Fido operator to choose not
to participate.
3) Participating Fido operators must be compensated for their
efforts and for the commercial use of their systems.
4) It must remain possible for amateur Fido operators to join the
net and to operate without additional cost.
5) It must be possible to bill commercial users without depending
on accounting data supplied by the local Fido operators.
6) In general, accounting and billing must be humanly possible in
some way, preferably with a minimum of effort.
I believe I have come up with an approach which will satisfy all
of these goals. Implementing my method will call for certain
changes in how Fido operates, along with certain changes in the
FidoNet packet format. I will detail the required changes first,
and then show what they can accomplish. Please bear with me.
The most difficult part operationally is altering the FidoNet
packet format. I anticipate a period of near total chaos while
some Fidos are sending packets that other Fidos cannot unpack.
This confusion may be unavoidable anyway, in view of Tom
Jenning's avowed intention of implementing country support.
Required Changes:
Fidonews Page 12 13 Oct 1986
FidoNet currently understands two levels: nets and nodes.
Implementing country support will require another level, zones,
higher than the net number. To support commercial mail traffic,
Fido should also have yet a fourth level added under nodes. This
lowest level would consist of "subnodes" under a given node. I
somehow ended up calling them "points", so I will continue to do
so for lack of a better word.
The final hierarchy would look something like this:
Country 1
Net 100
Node 51
Point 8
A full net address specifying all four levels might look like this:
1:100/51.8
Each existing node would double as "point zero". If no point is
specified in an address, then the message would go to the node.
One major aspect of points is that they are optional. A node
does not have to have any points under it, and in fact does not
even have to know that there is such a thing. All nodes would
ignore points belonging to other nodes, and points would not be
listed in the node list.
A point would communicate only with its own node. It does not
need (and should not have) phone numbers for any nodes other than
its own. One may suppose that operators of points may swap phone
numbers so that they may exchange files, but this need not
concern us as far as operation of the net is concerned.
The phone number for any given point would be needed only by the
node which "owns" the point. No other nodes would need or should
have it.
Commercial Users:
Commercial users of FidoNet would be set up as points.
Accounting would be handled as a flat subscription fee per month
for unlimited use of the network. The subscription fee would be
split out among the participating nodes on a percentage basis.
One possible way of doing this would be:
60% to the node which handles the point.
30% to the host which serves that node.
5% to the regional coordinator who handles that area.
5% to the national office.
As one moves up the hierarchy the percentages get smaller, but
the number of points covered increases, so total revenues should
Fidonews Page 13 13 Oct 1986
increase as well. Per point returns are high for the local node,
which should compensate him for dealing with the points on
occasion as well as providing him with incentive to obtain more
points. But as one moves up the ladder and becomes more involved
with network operation, ones compensation increases accordingly.
I envision the operation as working something like this:
1) A commercial user decides to sign up for FidoNet, either as a
result of advertising, or from being canvassed by a node. He
fills out an application and sends it to St. Louis.
2) The central office verifies his credit card number and informs
the participating node closest to him (or the node who
canvassed him).
3) The node handling the new user adds him to his "point list"
and helps him get started.
4) Each month the central office charges a subscription fee to
his credit card, calculates the payments to each participating
node, and mails out the checks.
5) Whenever the point decides to leave, the central office stops
charging his card and notifies his point that he has left.
The node then drops him from his point list and no longer
handles mail for him.
Ramifications:
With this system, all network and regional coordinators must be
willing to participate. This may be a disadvantage, but may also
result in a higher level of dedication among the coordinators.
Local nodes, however, need not participate if they do now want
to. In fact, it would be a mistake to involve any node who was
not actively willing to join.
The amateur network is preserved. Amateur Fido operators may
still join at the node level, and may send mail without charge
(other than phone bills). Commercial users may attempt to form
their own nodes for this purpose. Participating nodes can be
alerted to watch for this, providing us with policing at the
local level. It is obviously in the interests of a participating
node to do this. A commercial node in his area should rightly be
a point under his node, so he is losing revenue.
Since points will not be listed in the node list, we may want to
publish a "point list" (sort of a phone book). This should
probably be covered by the cost of a subscription. We should
probably ask on the application form whether or not a commercial
user wishes to appear in the point list. I have no idea how
often such a thing should be published.
Fidonews Page 14 13 Oct 1986
Selling It:
This obviously won't work unless we can sell it to the present
sysops. We don't have to get everyone to participate, but we
don't want to get too many people upset, either. Fortunately, we
have two recent examples to guide us.
1) US Robotics is selling us 2400 baud modems at a reduced price
(comfortably above distributor cost), and is seen as a hero.
2) GTE is selling us long distance telecommunications at a
reduced price (during their slack time), and is seen as a
villain.
Why is one a hero and the other a villain? Both are exploiting
the BBS community.
I believe that the reason is because USR is seen as practicing
favoritism. They are singling out the sysop for special
treatment, while GTE is not. (Indeed, a user might see the roles
of hero and villain the other way around!)
I believe that this approach will be palatable to Fido sysops
because it is rank favoritism of the worst (best) sort. We are
singling out Fido sysops and telling them, "We won't bother you
in any way, but you can make some bucks if you want to."
Conclusion:
I like it. It gives us all a chance to make a buck, and gives
something back to the dedicated amateur. I can envision people
setting up nodes just to make money handling commercial mail, but
the backbone of the idea is the dedicated amateur sysop. It's
high time a sysop got something for his efforts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 15 13 Oct 1986
=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================
DBASEII: CURES FOR SOME COMMON FRUSTRATIONS
By G. R. Realmuto
dBASE is noted for being a very powerful yet difficult program to
learn. I love it for this very reason. Like a person who
collects rare objects, I enjoy learning and mastering skills
others choose to avoid. I've been frustrated many times. Error
messages, syntax errors, and losing control of the keyboard can
make you crazy. Below are a number of frustrations and how I
cured them. Enjoy!
Frustration 1: Don't forget to enclose print statements in
quotes: "SUCCESS."
Frustration 2: IF statements can be nested but must end with as
many ENDIF's as there are IF's.
Frustration 3: DO WHILE statements cannot be nested. Very
important!
Frustration 4: DO WHILE statements may have IF then ELSE nested,
but remember to end with ENDIF then ENDDO.
Frustration 5: You cannot TRIM numerical fields or memory
variables.
Frustration 6: You cannot add numerical data to character fields,
etc. Use STORE VAL (string) to MVAR.
Frustration 7: You lose control of the keyboard. Type SET
CONSOLE ON.
Frustration 8: ACCEPT TO statements with following IF's are
character variables and need quotes.
Frustration 9: INPUT TO statements with following IF's are
numerical and of course do not require quotes. e.g.:
ACCEPT "WHAT COMMAND WOULD YOU LIKE" TO CHOICE
IF CHOICE = "QVB"
QUIT to "vdo," "dbase menu"
ELSE
IF CHOICE = "DFA"
DISPLAY files on A like *.*
ENDIF
ENDIF
Or:
INPUT "-1- END POSTCARD -2- NO CARD" TO CARD
Fidonews Page 16 13 Oct 1986
IF CARD = 1
DO POST
ELSE
IF CARD = 2
RETURN
ENDIF
ENDIF
Frustration 10: don't forget to put EJECT's at the end of
REPORT's, etc.
Frustration 11: SET EJECT OFF if you don't want one before a
REPORT.
Frustration 12: Don't forget ENDCASE statement with DO CASE!
Computer goes to infinity.
Frustration 13: Don't forget to write 'SET ESCAPE ON" at the
beginning of your program so you can abort a "buggy" program with
<ESC>.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 17 13 Oct 1986
Jerry Hindle
123/6 123/0
MemphisNet
901-353-4563
300/1200/2400
Hello again.....
I bet your getting tired of seeing all these articles from me
now, aren't you? Well guess what you got more coming your way.
In this weeks installment I would like to share a few things
with you that I have noticed since I wrote the FidoUtil article in
Fnews 336.
First and foremost, I (and the authors of FidoUtil) have had a
pretty good response from that one, more so then the Mailcost review.
The authors do request from both you and I that ALL BUG reports for
FidoUtil be sent to 151/3 not 151/2 as I originally told you. For
this I apologize.
Now on to better things. The version I reviewed for Fnews was
1.10 and I have since (actually within hours of sending the article
in) acquired version 1.20 of this tremendous program. In this version
the authors have ADDED the following utilities:
DTR TASK LOG SPACE DATEFILE & JULIAN
NODEDATA
They have also added an environment setting to it so you may
configure FidoUtil to boot up the way you want it. They have also
UPDATED the following utilities from version 1.10:
LASTUSER RICOCHET USERLIST TWIX SCHED
Now you may ask, just what did they do to update these
utilities, well I'll tell ya ! THEY LISTENED to a user (ME) and made
almost all the changes I requested in the original article, plus some
I hadn't even thought about. While they were at it they added the
utilities shown above. I will attempt to give you a brief rundown of
what the NEW stuff does;
DTR: This little utility will allow you to control the modems
DTR from DOS. You may either turn DTR on (ie enable the modem) or OFF
(ie disable the modem).
TASK: This one is adds the ability to have a BAT file ask for
user input and act on this input OR LACK OF INPUT. This will give you
the ability to have a bat file branch on user input or continue or
halt if no input. It is extremely flexible in use and configuration
depending on the BAT file itself.
LOG: Keeps a separate LOG file for use with either OUTSIDE or
any other program once outside FIDO environment. You specify what
goes into the log file as far as text goes. It will add the date
stamp and time stamp to what you specify.
Fidonews Page 18 13 Oct 1986
SPACE: This will do one of two things...either show you how much
space is left in the default dir of the default drive in 100k blocks
or if you add a number after the command on the command line it will
return an errorlevel based on how much space is left OVER the amount
specified. If no amount is specified it will return an errorlevel
based on the amount in 100k blocks (ie 7.2 meg would return an
errorlevel of 72, since there are 72 100k blocks available on the
drive)
DATEFILE & JULIAN: These two will rename any file based either
on the JULIAN date or the SYSTEM date. If you use system date then
you must add a new extension for the filename. If you use the JULIAN
then you need to specify a new filename.
NODEDATA: This is the best of the additions. If you want to know
the information on an entry in the NODELIST.BBS file then you simply
type in the net/node number and it will present you with the
information on that entry in the nodelist. A HANDY ITEM !!!
ENVIRONMENT SETTINGS: In this version of FidoUtil the authors
have added the ability to customize the environment to your liking.
While this is GREAT I can't go into detail here since there is simply
to much info to present here.
I would recommend you get this utility since it will make life
vastly easier for any Fido sysop around.
As a note to other shareware authors out there who may be
reading this. The authors MARSHALL PRESNELL & BEN MANN have BOTH been
in voice contact with me since I wrote the original article. This is
a FIRST for me since I started writing articles along these lines. I
have written articles on a few other utilities and in all fairness I
must say that although some of them contacted me (via fidomail) NONE
except BEN and MARSHALL offered to discuss in detail on VOICE
connection their programs. Both of these authors have given me their
voice numbers as they are genuinely interested in producing a QUALITY
program. They have listened to my suggestions as well as my
complaints. They have made corrections where needed and where
corrections were not easily possible they have stated they will make
the needed additions or corrections or suggestions as soon as
possible. This is a first !!!!!! Every other author that even
bothered to contact me has simply said they intend to keep it the way
it is (not in so many words but that was the general idea from the
message sent to me). MARSHALL has also stated that he will be
releasing soon as a COMMERCIAL PROGRAM ONLY an AUTOMATIC SYSOP ! I
have seen what this program can do and if you have gotten a version
of FidoUtil version 1.1 from 151/2 then you too have seen just a
minute sampling of its capabilities. I am testing a DEMO version of
this little GEM even as I type. I will let you know what I think as
soon as I have given it a fair trial.
To other shareware authors.....KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ! If I have
written about your "baby" and given it a terrible review then please
contact me with an update...who knows maybe I will like it, BUT in
ANY EVENT I will make it available for downloading here in the exact
same state I receive it (barring transmission errors or bad file
Fidonews Page 19 13 Oct 1986
transfers). If you would like to add you "baby" to the growing list
of FIDO support software available here, simply let me know and we
can work out a means for me to get it from you.
Well I guess I have rambled on long enough for this week..
Stay tuned to this station next week same time (except on the
south coast where it will be later) for more on the utilities as I
find them.
Jerry Hindle
123/6 123/0
MemphisNet
901-353-4563
300/1200/2400
24hrs daily
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 20 13 Oct 1986
=================================================================
WANTED
=================================================================
Kent Leonard
Boulder Fido 104/77
Wanted: information and a source for a microstrip design
program called "Touchstone". Rumored to be for IBM PCs and
VAX/VMS, either would be acceptable. Unknown if Shareware or
commercial. Please address Sysop, Fido 104/77.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 21 13 Oct 1986
=================================================================
FOR SALE
=================================================================
Now available from Micro Consulting Associates!!
Public Domain collection - 550+ "ARC" archives - 20+ megs of
software and other goodies, and that's "archived" size!
When unpacked, you get approximately 28 megabytes worth of
all kinds of software, from text editors to games to
unprotection schemes to communications programs, compilers,
interpreters, etc... Over 66 DS/DD diskettes!! This
collection is the result of more than 15 months of intensive
downloads from just about 150 or more BBS's and other
sources, all of which have been examined, indexed and
archived for your convenience. Starting a Bulletin Board
System? Want to add on to your software base without
spending thousands of dollars? This is the answer!!!
To order the library, send $100 (personal or company check,
postal money order or company purchase order) to:
Micro Consulting Associates, Fido 166/1
Post Office Box 4296
200-1/2 E. Balboa Boulevard
Balboa, Ca. 92661-4296
Please allow 3 weeks for delivery of your order.
Note: No profit is made from the sale of the Public Domain
software in this collection. The price is applied entirely
to the cost of downloading the software over the phone
lines, running a BBS to receive file submissions, and
inspecting, cataloguing, archiving and maintaining the
files. Obtaining this software yourself through the use of a
computer with a modem using commercial phone access would
cost you much more than what we charge for the service...
The following format choices are available:
- IBM PC-DOS Backup utility
- Zenith MS-DOS 2.11 Backup Utility
- DSBackup
- Fastback
- ACS INTRCPT 720k format (Requires a 1.2m floppy
drive and PC-DOS 3.2)
- Plain ol' files (add $50)
Add $30 if you want the library on 1.2 meg AT disks (more
expensive disks). There are no shipping or handling
charges. California residents add 6% tax.
For each sale, $10 will go to the FidoNet Administrators.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Page 22 13 Oct 1986
=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================
The Interrupt Stack
24 Aug 1989
Voyager 2 passes Neptune.
If you have something which you would like to see on this
calendar, please send a message to FidoNet node 1/1.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Pozar
:
>Is it really necessary to post this in net.mail? These 'Fidonet' things
>are huge, and have nothing to do with mail. I'm sure a more relevant group
>could be found for them (for instance, a subgroup of mod.mag).
>__
> -Guy Middleton, University of Waterloo MFCF/ICR
Hmmm. I guess since I'm the main culprit to this, I should respond.
There seems to be two complaints to posting the FidoNewsletter here.
1] Size
2] Some of the ads are strictly commercial, in nature.
After some prodding by Erik Fair (he even wrote me a batch file to process
the newsletter), I posted a couple of newsletters on the mail, and net news
groups. I received some mail containing the complaints above. I passed those
pieces on to Erik. He responed by saying that the size is inconsequential.
And the commercialization is NOT outlawed by the guidelines.
Someone earier asked if this could be moved to a new newsgroup for
Fido. If that is so, how would that be done? Since I am getting most of my
mail from overseas, will this restict this information to these places?
Is there a moderator for this group? How does he feel about this posting?
Tim Pozar
po...@well.UUCP
Fido 125/406
Dave Taylor
the posting of the FidoNet newsletter, I strongly believe that the
appropriate distribution mechanism for this sort of thing is a MAILING LIST,
suitably advertised on the net. It is *NOT* appropriate, I feel, to
distribute this via Usenet (not to mention the groups selected for
cross-posting).
If the demand reaches sufficient levels (200+) then perhaps we can all discuss
making it a new newsgroup, or a part of another group, but in the meantime I'd
like to see the postings stop.
-- Dave Taylor
Werner Uhrig
> appropriate distribution mechanism for this sort of thing is a MAILING LIST,
> suitably advertised on the net. It is *NOT* appropriate, I feel, to
> distribute this via Usenet (not to mention the groups selected for
> cross-posting).
>
> making it a newsgroup, or a part of another group, but in the meantime I'd
while I agree with Dave that this group is not the right place to continue
posting it I find the requirement for 200 votes a bit unreasonable. I do not
recall that it EVER took anything like this number to establish ANY of the
groups that I know of. However, it may well be the time to start such a
requirement (but then let's do it for ALL existing groups).
In general, I'd like to see new groups be able to get some exposure before
deciding if they should be news or mail-groups. I assume here, that many of
us do scan a lot of news-groups (especially new ones) occasionally, simply
to form an opinion and get an idea what it's all about, where we'd *NEVER* be
even tempted to subscribe to it as a mail-group and, therefore, never get a
chance to find out what we are missing.
The case in question seems to me to be the perfect case for mod.mag or a
sub-group thereof. The volume certainly seems negligable and the contents
is after all a (moderated?) newsletter, with volume and issue numbers - the
works (I don't know about the 'advertising' though; I'd want to see a few
more issues before I form a definite opinion)
I am not disinclined to create a net-wide concensus to require certain
minimum readership across a minimum number of sites which should be required
for distribution, but let's do this systematically and not apply this to
new groups only, but also to existing ones. Otherwise we create the well
known situation where the establishment makes the rules in a way that will
keep new-comers (and potential competitors for resources) out in the cold.
Given that this net is about information, I'd like to see information made
available to as many as possible as conveniently as possible and to avoid
the situation where new ideas and data is prevented from spreading and thus
the "critical mass" of interested people can never come together to "justify"
a news-group.
Maybe, we should create a priority-list of interest-areas which we'd like
to carry information about on this net. I'd expect that anything having to do
with computers and electronic communications should be rather high on the
list and require fewer readers to justify distribution as a news-group,
than, for example, groups dealing with the occult, religion, sports....
(whatever, insert your own favorite hit-list here).
---Werner "the header should show a mail-path to my IN-box..."
John Gilmore
> In conclusion, I would like to thank Jeff Rush of the Rising Star
> Fido (124/206) for conceiving of and implementing EchoMail. He
> should be remembered by the networking historians for developing
> a utility that gives you just about everything that UseNet does
> without half the hassle.
I think this is particularly ironic considering it appeared immediately
after a complex two-page description of how to add a newsgroup!
--
John Gilmore {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu jgil...@lll-crg.arpa
(C) Copyright 1986 by John Gilmore. May the Source be with you!
Michael C. Berch
since it is of interest to a (relatively) small number of people
compared to the totality of Usenet. It is also basically a one-way
medium and therefore might be appropriate as a moderated "publication"
in mod.mag, e.g., mod.mag.fidonet. Its relevance to net.mail escapes me.
Michael C. Berch
News/mail co-administrator, styx
ARPA: m...@lll-tis-b.ARPA
UUCP: {ihnp4,dual,sun}!lll-lcc!styx!mcb
David Booth
to electronic mail and BBOARD systems, and it is good to know about the
progress of such systems. I don't particularly care if a new newsgroup
is created for them, but I don't see any substantial justification for
it, since the newsletters are only posted once a week. That certainly
does not seem like an unwieldly amount traffic for uninterested persons
to ignore.
David Booth
Don Curry
of what it is I'm voting for/against.
Don Curry
Computer Facilities & Communications,
University of California,
Berkeley CA 94720 (415) 642-0587
"Dh' aindeoin co theireadh e!"
ra...@oresoft.uucp
>after a complex two-page description of how to add a newsgroup!
>--
>John Gilmore {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu jgil...@lll-crg.arpa
>(C) Copyright 1986 by John Gilmore. May the Source be with you!
Gosh, and that was the kinky EchoMailer for Fido. There are even simpler
systems in the new FidoClone, Opus. If anyone is really interested in
FidoNet (~1,200 public nodes and God knows how many private ones), I can
post the data structures and state diagrams of the protocol etc. There
is even a FidoNet/Usenet gateway (actually, for over a year).
randy
John Plocher
>Okay! What IS FidoNET? I can't vote for or against it without some knowledge
>of what it is I'm voting for/against.
FidoNet (tm) is a collection of PCs which run a Buletin Board System
(BBS) called Fido (tm). Fido is a typical BBS system for micros in
that it allows entry of messages (public and private) as well as
upload/download of files. It has one very important difference from
most PC BBSs in that ALL systems running the Fido software can
automatically communicate with each other. (A lot like usenet, but
significantly different - see below)
This networking is done over normal voice grade phone lines, with the
originator paying the phone bills. Users can send mail to users on any
other Fido BBS in the world, with delivery overnight. Messages can
also be sent to anyone on Usenet, again, see below. Currently, FidoNet
(the name for the global network of Fidos) consists of over 1000
systems in USA, Canada, England, Holland, (other European contries too)
Australia, Indonesia...
FidoNet is organized as a structured blob :-) Anyone CAN talk to
anyone else, but default routing channels messages through hosts or hubs.
Each week a central site sends out a nodelist to hubs and regions who
then send it to all the leaf nodes. This nodelist is used for the
automatic routing and as an on-line "area code" directory. Also
published once a week by another site is the FidoNews newsletter. This
moderated newsletter is driven by the members of FidoNet, and is a
great source of info to the Sysops and users involved with FidoNet.
Technical description of FidoNet:
Topology:
other hubs <------+---------------+-----------------+----------> other hubs
| | |
Net 132 Hub Region 2 Hub Net 121 Hub
(Node 0) (Node 0) (Node 0)
| | |
-------------- node 8 ---------------
/ | \ / | \
Node 1 node 2 node 101 node 1 node 7 node 90
A user on Net 121 Node 1 can send a message to another person on Net 132
Node 101; the message will be routed as follows:
121/1 --> 121/0 --> 132/0 --> 132/101
This is done because the hubs can usually send messages for less cost
than the nodes can (After hours use of WATS lines...). Usually a 'net'
is similar in concept to the telco's area code. A hub usually is a
local phone call away from its nodes; Nodes which are isolated are
placed in regions instead of nets. This is an arbitrary naming
convention, not a different class of <anything>.
If 121/1 wanted to send a file (as opposed to a message) to 132/101,
the call would be placed directly between 121/1 and 132/101 to avoid
saturating the hubs. Also, the Prime Directive of FidoNet is that the
person who incures costs should pay for them. Thus Node 121/1 pays to
send the file, not the hub, 121/0!
Implementation:
The Fido Software is written by Tom Jennings, and (as of version 11),
is avaliable to non-commercial sites for FREE. Commercial use requires
a $100 registration licencing fee. It runs on IBM/clone PC's, DEC
Rainbows, Sanyo PC's, Victor 9000s, CompuPro S-100 machines... ie:
MS-DOS boxes.
There is a large documentation package avaliable (500+ pages),
including setup manual, Sysop manual, and user manual. Also, there
are help nodes on the net, and IFNA, the International FidoNet
Association can help old and new BBSs out.
The comunications at the networking level are crude - a combination
of XMODEM and Telink (Modem7-Batch) file transfer protocols with
verification preambles at connect time. (are you a user or another
Fido?...)
The routing is done with the above mentioned static routing tables,
updated weekly. With the exception of the nodelist preperation,
there is NO central node in the network - it really is an informal
grouping of very independent machines. Nodes behave as they wish,
since they pay their phone bills. Hubs are there to make
organizational sense out of the shear number of nodes; country codes
are coming soon because of the fast growth of FidoNet overseas.
There is a UUCP <--> FidoNet gateway maintained by Bob Hartman at
vaxine; mail can be sent to Fido systems with the UUCP address:
{decvax,ihnp4}!encore!vaxine!spark!FIDO-NET-NUMBER!FIDO-NODE-NUMBER!FIDO-USER
where
FIDO-NET-NUMBER is the identifier of the sub-net within FidoNet the
desired node resides in,
FIDO-NODE-NUMBER is the local node number, and FIDO-USER is the
name of the user you wish to talk to.
Bob's address would be:
decvax!encore!vaxine!spark!132!101!Bob_Hartman
Mine would be:
decvax!encore!vaxine!spark!121!0!John_Plocher
--
"Never trust an idea you get sitting down" - Nietzche
------------ {harvard,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!uwhsms!plocher (work)
John Plocher {harvard,seismo}!uwvax!puff!plocher (school)
------------ decvax!encore!vaxine!spark!121!0!John_Plocher (FidoNet)
james
> From FidoNET Newsletter, Volume 3, # 39:
> > should be remembered by the networking historians for developing
> > a utility that gives you just about everything that UseNet does
> > without half the hassle.
>
> I think this is particularly ironic considering it appeared immediately
> after a complex two-page description of how to add a newsgroup!
What makes this funnier is that EchoMail is not very hassle free at all. By
far the biggest problem with usenet is finding someone willing to feed news.
I queried 30 people and got two willing to feed news to me. Once you've done
that the software & setup is fairly easy if time consuming and not especially
well documented (although the price is certainly right!). EchoMail can be
painful in the extreme. An Echomail "area" requires that the systems involved
be precisely set up to avoid infinite message propogation: EchoMail doesn't
tag each message with a Message-id as usenet does! Another problem is that
FidoNet must be in either mail transfer mode or in human caller mode, and
one can call when it's in the other mode. I keep thinking that the next
version of Fido will have a calling Fido log in as a user and then cause the
called Fido to switch to network mode, but not yet. Many busy Fidos are in
network mode most of the night, preventing humans from using them during cheap
LD hours.
But then again, Fido and in particular EchoMail are brand new even by unix
standards. And no one gets paid to sit around and figure out message
transmission methods for Fido... EchoMail does work, but it is not as advanced
or effective as most Fido users seem to think.
--
James R. Van Artsdalen ...!ut-ngp!utastro!osi3b2!james "Live Free or Die"
Amos Shapir
>If the demand reaches sufficient levels (200+) then perhaps we can all discuss
>making it a new newsgroup, or a part of another group, but in the meantime I'd
>like to see the postings stop.
Hooray for that! See what happens:
Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
/dev/ra0e 26611 21683 2266 91% /NEWS
--
Amos Shapir
National Semiconductor (Israel)
6 Maskit st. P.O.B. 3007, Herzlia 46104, Israel
(01-972) 52-522261
34.49'E 32.10'N
Tim Pozar
Sender:
Reply-To: po...@well.UUCP (Tim Pozar)
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Whole Earth Lectronic Link, Sausalito CA
Keywords: Fido FidoNet
Thank you John. You were much quicker and elaborate than I would have
been.
Tim Pozar
______________________________
| |
| UUCP: ihp4!hplabs!well!pozar |
| Fido: 125/406 Sysop |
|______________________________|
T Anderson
allowed somewhere. I don't feel strongly about where.
-- Terry Anderson
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Warren, NJ
ra...@oresoft.uucp
and non-PC clones are in the works. An extended version of the protocol
supports file requests etc. There are some 1,200 nodes around the old ball,
and many in private corporations (AT&T, GTE, Natl Parks, ...). It started with
Tom Jennings doing a PC bulletin board that could call other versions of itself.
It's been around 3-4 years, but I really don't know. The newsgroup idea hit
FidoNet only last February, so it is nowhere near the advanced stages of flaming
and technology of Usenet, but it's coming on strong, especially the flames.
rm...@rmi.uucp
Looking forward to the next one
Rupert Mohr
Aachen(W.Germany)
*****************************************************************
* addresses: uucp zent...@rmi.uucp GeoNet rmi:rmi-aachen *
* bix rmiaachen Btx 024121144-0001 *
* cis 72446,415 *
*****************************************************************
Tim Pozar
>In article <7...@hplabsc.UUCP> tay...@hplabsc.UUCP (Dave Taylor) writes:
>>If the demand reaches sufficient levels (200+) then perhaps we can all discu
ss
>>making it a new newsgroup, or a part of another group, but in the meantime I
'd
>>like to see the postings stop.
>
>Hooray for that! See what happens:
>Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
>/dev/ra0e 26611 21683 2266 91% /NEWS
>--
> Amos Shapir
>
>National Semiconductor (Israel)
both net.mail and net.news, thats 96K. I can understand some of the other
arguments, by not a restriction of disk space. If you are going to receive
mail, and/or news groups, and a backlog of mail, or some moderate posting comes
along, your dead. I would think a better rational to this problem would be
getting some more disk space or unsuscribing from a couple of news groups, or
(temporarily) clean out some dead wood. I'm not trying to FLAME. I'm just
bewildered that this point is being used for an argument to stop the posting
of the FidoNews. As stated before, I can understand an argument like, "Not
applicable" (although I don't agree), or wrong format (msg vs. mag) (a point
that can be debated.)
Fido is a network of 1000+ nodes that are publicly listed and many more
that are private. I think that, because of the size, and how well Fido works,
we (the USENET community) should have access to information concerning Fido.
A more pesimistic view, was the one stated by Erik Fair. In it he said that
Fido is increasing in size at a meteoric rate. He seems to feel that Fido will
crash just as hard, and he is interested in seeing the hows and whys in order
to avoid such a catastrophe for these nets. Those who restrict the flow of
information will be damned from ignorance.
Boy, I feel like Dr. Gene Scott. Whew!
Leon Marr
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution:
In article <2...@oresoft.UUCP> ra...@oresoft.UUCP (Randy Bush) writes:
>FidoNet is similar to Usenet, but runs on PClones. The protocol is documented,
>and non-PC clones are in the works. An extended version of the protocol
>supports file requests etc. There are some 1,200 nodes around the old ball,
>and many in private corporations (AT&T, GTE, Natl Parks, ...).
Is anyone doing anything like this for Macs? I don't remember seeing
anything in mod.mac. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Leon Marr
Brandon Allbery
+---------------
| This networking is done over normal voice grade phone lines, with the
| originator paying the phone bills. Users can send mail to users on any
| other Fido BBS in the world, with delivery overnight. Messages can
| also be sent to anyone on Usenet, again, see below. Currently, FidoNet
| (the name for the global network of Fidos) consists of over 1000
| systems in USA, Canada, England, Holland, (other European contries too)
| Australia, Indonesia...
Along with the UANet scheme I'm working on, I am trying to integrate FidoNET
with UA; this requires that the UNIX system call out, because Fido can't be
made to log in to UNIX (or so I understand).
+---------------
| FidoNet is organized as a structured blob :-) Anyone CAN talk to
| anyone else, but default routing channels messages through hosts or hubs.
+---------------
Sounds a lot like Usenet on PCs. ;-}
BTW, since UA will interface with both Fido and USENET, theoretically any
UA node will be a Fido/UUCP gateway:
...sys1!sys2!us...@sysname.UA
...sys1!sys2!us...@net.node.FIDO
Note that these are only guesses; how it will really work depends on how
I can write the dispatch software without having it turn into the gross
hack that sendmail is... (in fact, I already have ideas on that, based on
a modified regexp allowing macros).
++Brandon
--
---------------- /--/ Brandon S. Allbery UUCP: decvax!cwruecmp!
/ / /|\/ Tridelta Industries, Inc. ncoast!tdi2!brandon
---- -------- /-++ 7350 Corporate Blvd. PHONE: +1 216 974 9210
/ / /---, ---- Mentor, Ohio 44060 SYSOP: UNaXcess/ncoast
/ / / / / / -- HOME -- (216) 781-6201 24 hrs.
/ / / / / / 6615 Center St. Apt. A1-105 ARPA: ncoast!allbery%
---- -----~ ---- Mentor, Ohio 44060-4101 case....@relay.cs.net
len...@apple.uucp
>I tend to think the FidoNet stuff would work best as a mailing list,
>since it is of interest to a (relatively) small number of people
>compared to the totality of Usenet. It is also basically a one-way
>medium and therefore might be appropriate as a moderated "publication"
>in mod.mag, e.g., mod.mag.fidonet. Its relevance to net.mail escapes me.
Here here! I second the motion for mod.mag.fidonet. Are you listening,
oh ye powers that be?
len...@apple.uucp
>I don't particularly care if a new newsgroup
>is created for them, but I don't see any substantial justification for
>it, since the newsletters are only posted once a week. That certainly
>does not seem like an unwieldly amount traffic for uninterested persons
>to ignore.
You are forgetting the converse argument. I want to read the Fidonet
newsletter. I do NOT want to read net.news. I would like a separate
newsgroup so that I can ignore the unwieldy amount of traffic that net.news
generates.
No flames, please. I'm not a news administrator. So sue me.
-Robert Lenoil
Amos Shapir
>... I would think a better rational to this problem would be
>getting some more disk space or unsuscribing from a couple of news groups, or
>(temporarily) clean out some dead wood. I'm not trying to FLAME. I'm just
>bewildered that this point is being used for an argument to stop the posting
The point was: stop posting it here, and give them their own newsgroup
so I can unsubscribe.
--
Amos Shapir
National Semiconductor (Israel)
Werner Uhrig
> I think, FIDO Newsletter ist NEWS and belongs to net.news.
either Rupert or I have the wrong notion what "news" refers to, and either
way, this demonstrates that no matter what someone
once may have defined a group to be for, if the name is not "intuitively
right", you got problems and should not really be surprised about it.
I fell into that trap recently when mistaking the purpose of "misc.headlines"
now I wonder if either I or Rupert is mistaken in what net.news is supposed to
be used for. I was under the impression that articles are supposed to cover
and be limited to aspects of "news-software" that holds the Usenet together.
If so, I suggest a name-change *SOONEST* using the term "usenet" in group-names
now containing "news".
Cyro Lord
>I think, FIDO Newsletter ist NEWS and belongs to net.news.
>
Sorry, but I vote for Fido News to be somewhere else
or be a mailing list. I don't use Fido BBS's so don't need
to hear about them now. If I do, will read their news group
or send for the mailing. My understanding of 'net.news' is
that it's about netnews software information or some such.
Cyro Lord, System Admin. Alpha CDC
Denver, Colo
{isis,hao,usiiden}!scicom!cyrill UUCP
cyr...@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM Internet
Kim Chr. Madsen
> You are forgetting the converse argument. I want to read the Fidonet
> newsletter. I do NOT want to read net.news. I would like a separate
> newsgroup so that I can ignore the unwieldy amount of traffic that net.news
> generates.
>
I don't care what arguments are used - just (re)move the Fidonet postings
from net.{mail,news}.
A mailing list would be good
A newsgroup would be unsubscribable
<Kim Chr. Madsen>