net.music.gdead

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bot...@katadn.dec

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Mar 20, 1985, 2:45:36 PM3/20/85
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This is a YES vote.

What I also propose is that all of you deadheads should no longer withhold your
traffic. Bury this forum if you can, maybe some of the people who oppose such
change for no discernable reason will change their minds.

*db*

dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom

Seth Jackson

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Mar 20, 1985, 6:41:14 PM3/20/85
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>I hereby propose the following additional subgroups:
> net.music.beatles
> net.music.stones
> net.music.who
> net.music.beachboys
> net.music.yes
> net.music.genesis
> net.music.siouxsie&thebanshees
> net.music.residents
> net.music.huskerdu
> net.music.pristinearea
>
>To be followed soon thereafter by:
> net.music.beatles.XXXX where XXXX is a beatle
> [jokes about net.music.beatles.dead will be shredded]
> net.music.genesis.withgabriel
> net.music.yes.no
> net.music.dead.drugs
>
>Is there anyone else who thinks THEIR favorite group is so different from
>the rest of the world of music that it deserves its own subgroup because
>it would just be IMpossible to discuss things in net.music?
>
>In case you hadn't guessed, this is a NO vote.
>--
>"Right now it's only a notion, but I'm hoping to turn it into an idea, and if
> I get enough money I can make it into a concept." Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr

Rich, you have succeed in demonstrating to all of us your complete lack of
understanding of not only the Dead and their fans, but also of the issue
at hand.

If there were a large group of people who felt strongly enough about the
Beatles or the Who or Husker Du or you-name-it, such that they wanted a
newsgroup where they could exchange info and trivia such as songlists, tour
dates, anecdotes, bootleg tape lists, wild descriptions of cosmic jams and
unlikely song combinations, who's going to what shows in what cities, etc.,
then I would say, well, go ahead and form a newsgroup. But the fact is,
that there is not demand for such a newsgroup for the Beatles, the Who,
Husker Du, or you-name-it, but there *IS* demand for such a newsgroup
for the Grateful Dead.

There, Rich. Did I explain that simply enough for you to understand?

Seth Jackson

"Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools"

John Lipinski

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Mar 22, 1985, 9:47:42 AM3/22/85
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Here is another YES vote for net.music.dead. Just supporting
the other Grateful Dead fans.

palena

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Mar 22, 1985, 10:51:42 AM3/22/85
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How about a net.music.that.is.offensive.and.has.little.or.no.artistic.
value.except.that.it.is novel.in.that.the.musicians.play.out.of.tune..

It seems that these types of bands are heavily discussed on this
net.If any certain type of band deserves its own net it's this type.

Professor Wagstaff

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Mar 22, 1985, 8:16:57 PM3/22/85
to
> This is a YES vote.
>
> What I also propose is that all of you deadheads should no longer withhold
> your traffic. Bury this forum if you can, maybe some of the people who oppose
> such change for no discernable reason will change their minds.
> dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom

[FLAME ON]
There. That sounds like a reasoned, thinking person's way of settling the
issue. It's apparent that at least some of the people supporting the
notion of a separate group seem to be stuck on some sort of childish notion
that having your "own" group offers your musical taste some sort of
"legitimacy" that it wouldn't have otherwise. ("See, my group has its own
group. Nyaah.") As evidenced above.

A warning: "bury" the forum, and I'm sure it can be arranged that automatic
article posters can "bury" the dead group. No pun intended.
--
Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen.
Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr

Professor Wagstaff

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Mar 22, 1985, 8:29:54 PM3/22/85
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> I hearby put out a call to all deaders in net.music land to put at
> least on piece of Deadism on net news per day. Eventually, we will have
> what we deserve, NET.MUSIC.DEAD. Net.music.jackson will never come into
> being because of the biggest difference between deadheads and all other
> music fans, and that is that we are together. [ANDY BINDMAN]

> What I also propose is that all of you deadheads should no longer withhold
> your traffic. Bury this forum if you can, maybe some of the people who oppose

> such change for no discernable reason will change their minds. [D. BOTTOM]

While I don't want to discourage people from posting music relevant topics
to net.music, this smacks of mob violence and a group of babies trying to
get their way by any means. I say, go ahead, post any and all material.
First you'll be tired of typing in a week, and second, in the future, when
there actually are relevant things to talk about (like tour schedules),
you'll have a place to post them: net.music .

> There are many good reasons why there is a need for net.music.dead.
> No matter how you cut it a deadhead is a different sort of animal, as
> different as a Dead concert is from any other one.
>
> We like to wear our hair all long and shaggy.
> We do get our kicks on LSD... [BINDMAN]

Now that you're through telling us how unique you are, let me say that every
fan of every group/artist is unique. Unless you WANT a newsgroup for every
artist in the universe. That way cave people can subscribe to only those
groups related to artists they already like, and thus avoid contamination from
accidentally hearing (about) something new...
--
Meet the new wave, same as the old wave...
Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

Glenn Bruns

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Mar 24, 1985, 3:03:48 PM3/24/85
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NET.MUSIC.GDEAD voting form:

__ No way they get their own newsgroup. If we let THEM have THEIR own
newsgroup then we'll soon end up with net.music.shatner

XX I vote yes for net.music.gdead. They can't tune their instruments
and their fans can't dance. Good-bye and good riddance.

__ Never heard of them; is this Debby Harry's new band?

cl...@unmvax.uucp

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Mar 26, 1985, 3:16:36 AM3/26/85
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>> What I also propose is that all of you deadheads should no longer withhold
>> your traffic. Bury this forum if you can, maybe some of the people who oppose
>> such change for no discernable reason will change their minds.
>> dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom
>
> [FLAME ON]
> There. That sounds like a reasoned, thinking person's way of settling the
> issue. It's apparent that at least some of the people supporting the
> notion of a separate group seem to be stuck on some sort of childish notion
> that having your "own" group offers your musical taste some sort of
> "legitimacy" that it wouldn't have otherwise. ("See, my group has its own
> group. Nyaah.") As evidenced above.

Of course whether or not people have the wrong reason for wanting a newsgroup
shouldn't prevent the creation assuming there is proper justification (the
"right reason") for such a group...

> A warning: "bury" the forum, and I'm sure it can be arranged that automatic
> article posters can "bury" the dead group. No pun intended.
> --
> Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen.
> Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr

Not quite the first time that someone gets burned on a "bury" quote...
Perhaps, and I can't speak for him, bottom was encouraging people
like me, who have information that is of interest to deadheads and few
others to go ahead and post it to net.music. In my case I am waiting until
I can clear up some inaccuracies and I am hoping for the creation of
net.dead, because I anticipate flames when I post a (compacted) set of
playlists from 1975 to present. No doubt some people will be convinced that
I am attempting to bury net.music, but that is not at all the case... there
have been many people who have asked me for this information.

Now for the rumor (from Mikel Box 4403 Covina CA 91723 {send him some
S.A.S.E. to receive his periodic newsletter}):

* was there a confrontation led by Mickey Hart on Friday where the
band told Jerry he must do something about his problems?
* did Jerry respond to this by leaving the house he was staying
in for weeks at a time and return to the panhandle at a spot
near where the Grateful Dead lived in the 60's?
* was Jerry's response of going to the Panhandle and sit in his
car free basing cocaine a crying out, both for the simpler
days of the 60's and a crying out for help?

Hmmm... It interesting to see interviews in which Jerry and Mickey are asked
what brought the end to the wonderful times at Haight-Ashbury. Jerry says
~the cops~ Mickey says ~the junkies.~ Mickey is quite anti-addict; he keeps
himself very fit. I can see how there might be such a confrontation.

--Cliff

cl...@unmvax.uucp

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Mar 26, 1985, 4:17:17 AM3/26/85
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> XX I vote yes for net.music.gdead. They can't tune their instruments
> and their fans can't dance. Good-bye and good riddance.

But at least Jerry *tries* :-) Does anyone know whether it is true that:

The Grateful Dead have been asked to not return to more different venues than
any other band has played?

There are more hours of Jerry tuning up on cassette then pounds of Grateful
Dead albums?

--Cliff

Carl Kuck

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Mar 27, 1985, 11:42:58 AM3/27/85
to

As precedent for the current "discussion" to have/have not a net.music.gdead
newsgroup, I would like to cite net.tv.drwho. Who, you say? :-) This is an
example of a special interest subgroup, and a successful one too, I might add.
Therefore, I say - "GIVE IT TO THEM, ALREADY..." If Deadheads are willing to
foot the bill for their own newsgroup, WHY NOT??? Net.tv.drwho *has not* led
to the creation of endless net.tv.bulls**t groups, as some have suggested the
Dead newsgroup would do to net.music. Perhaps those opposed to a special
interest subgroup feel that this adds more "worth" to the music enjoyed by
others, while somehow detracting from the value of their own listening choices.
*So what's the big deal????????* Enough is enough ... Maybe we should discuss
Gar's favorite method of making base ... :-) :-) :-)

P.S. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Deadhead - tho' many of my friends
*are* ...

When asked how to pronounce his name, he replied :

"You can call me by my name, "Virt", or you can call me by my value, "worth".


--
Happy Hacking, Carl (carl@ncr-tp)

" Ask me no questions and I might not tell you any lies ... fnord ... "

Dr. Emmanuel Wu

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Mar 27, 1985, 7:01:04 PM3/27/85
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>>>What I also propose is that all of you deadheads should no longer withhold
>>>your traffic. Bury this forum if you can, maybe some of the people who oppose
>>>such change for no discernable reason will change their minds.
>>> dec-rhea!dec-katadn!bottom

>>[FLAME ON]
>>There. That sounds like a reasoned, thinking person's way of settling the
>>issue. It's apparent that at least some of the people supporting the
>>notion of a separate group seem to be stuck on some sort of childish notion
>>that having your "own" group offers your musical taste some sort of
>>"legitimacy" that it wouldn't have otherwise. ("See, my group has its own

>>group. Nyaah.") As evidenced above. [ROSEN]

> Of course whether or not people have the wrong reason for wanting a newsgroup
> shouldn't prevent the creation assuming there is proper justification (the

> "right reason") for such a group... [unmvax!cliff]

I still don't think we've seen that. That doesn't seem to stop some people...

>>A warning: "bury" the forum, and I'm sure it can be arranged that automatic
>>article posters can "bury" the dead group. No pun intended.

> Not quite the first time that someone gets burned on a "bury" quote...


> Perhaps, and I can't speak for him, bottom was encouraging people
> like me, who have information that is of interest to deadheads and few
> others to go ahead and post it to net.music.

I'd say advocating "burying the forum" is not equivalent requesting that
information be posted, which of course there's nothing wrong with.

Chris Koenigsberg

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Mar 27, 1985, 7:36:25 PM3/27/85
to
Forgive me for adding to the deluge....I consider myself a
reasonably educated music listener and I appreciate the
unusual phenomenon of the Deadhead subculture.

Very few groups formed back in the early '60's are still
playing and touring extensively as the Dead are today.
There are probably three generations of Deadheads alive today.
With the conservative backlash trying to eliminate all forms
of non-conformity from society, and confine our federal
government to nothing but a huge metallic WAR MACHINE, the
indestructible Deadhead subculture is one of our strongest
defenses against the fascists. Compare it to the solidarity
underground in Poland for a moment....

I resisted listening to the Grateful Dead for many years until a
woman friend took me to see the concert movie. I realized I
had been missing something wonderful. So (this was back in the
middle '70's) I attended several Dead concerts, in Philadelphia
and then in Pittsburgh, Pa. where I still reside.

It has been ten years or so since then, but maybe it's time
for another dead concert for me. Are they really coming to
Pgh. July 5 as someone posted??


Chris Koenigsberg
tektronix!hplabs!hao!seismo!rochester!cmu-cs-pt!cmu-cs-g!ckk
c...@cmu-cs-g.arpa
1025 MurrayHill Ave.
Pittsburgh, Pa. 15217
(412)362-6422
"The creative person looks upon everything in the world as a predator"
-Pierre Boulez

Dan Cernese APO-1/C3 DTN 289-1120

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Mar 29, 1985, 8:56:11 AM3/29/85
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>Newsgroups: net.music
>Path: decwrl!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc12!nm34
>Subject: The Dead Experience & Tripping
>Posted: Tue Mar 26 08:27:57 1985
>
> One unique thing about Grateful Dead concerts is that approximately
>30-50% of the attendees are tripping. This may
>not be interesting to those of you out there who haven't experienced the
>alternate reality of these 'magical' substances, but those of you who
>
.
.
.
>importance and sharpness of your sences. Colors, tastes, smells and
>music, espcially music are wonderful. The Dead, gear their music to
>stimulate these reactions to music. The music is at times intense,
>moving you higher and higher then dropping you then picking you up and
>bringing you even higher. The intensity can get frightening but just
>when it is too much to bear, they break into the most sedate and
>melodious pastoral music in which you can smell the fields and stream
>they evoke. The lyrics are also both stimulating to confusion then
>understanding and reassuring. In one song, often played after a long
>unmelodious passage, the words "...If you get confused, listen to the
>music play..." leap out at you and grab you and hold and comfort you.
>
> At a Dead concert many people are tripping. It seems as if
>everyone is on the same wavelength.
>You can look at the person next to you, who you have never met before and
>you KNOW that they KNOW what you are feeling. You are really soulmates
>for that short time. Brought together by the music but also the
>experience.
>
> I know many who read this will be skeptical to say the least. And
>you will never KNOW.
>
> C. Charlie

I agree with all of my heart and soul... it has made me the person
I am today, and I'm proud of it. I've only been going to Dead shows for
five years and every one of them had something to offer (although not every
one of them is a truly ~hot~ show). What can I say? Words simply cannot
convey the enormous emotions that the Dead/audience throw around (and back
and forth) during a good concert. Once in a while, after a particular night
or two of ~hot~ shows, I think to myself "If I died tomorrow, at least I
would have died a happy man". Dead shows put me in such a good mood that
I'm usually suspiciously happy at work (people wonder... its great!)...

Dan

"roll away..... roll away.. ..the dew.. roll away... roll away.. ..the dew.."

Dr. Emmanuel Wu

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Mar 31, 1985, 7:51:53 PM3/31/85
to
> Forgive me for adding to the deluge....I consider myself a
> reasonably educated music listener and I appreciate the
> unusual phenomenon of the Deadhead subculture.
>
> Very few groups formed back in the early '60's are still
> playing and touring extensively as the Dead are today.
> There are probably three generations of Deadheads alive today.
> With the conservative backlash trying to eliminate all forms
> of non-conformity from society, and confine our federal
> government to nothing but a huge metallic WAR MACHINE, the
> indestructible Deadhead subculture is one of our strongest
> defenses against the fascists. Compare it to the solidarity
> underground in Poland for a moment....

I just did. I can't stop laughing. A bunch of wasted hippies on drugs
seeing themselves as analogous to the resistance of the Solidarity
movement, fighting for "freedom" in a way similar to what Poles have had
to go through. It's just hysterical. And truly degrading to what those
people have had to go through. The "deadhead subculture" is perhaps
one of THE single strongest elements within the new yuppie subculture,
neo-conservative non-youths in business suits get to dress up like they
did back in college and smoke dope and take drugs and drive home in their
BMW's. This comparison makes me really sick.
--
Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts.
Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

cl...@unmvax.uucp

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Apr 2, 1985, 4:44:12 PM4/2/85
to
> > With the conservative backlash trying to eliminate all forms
> > of non-conformity from society, and confine our federal
> > government to nothing but a huge metallic WAR MACHINE, the
> > indestructible Deadhead subculture is one of our strongest
> > defenses against the fascists.

Hmmm... the Dead are also one of the few bands that started in the 60's that
were decidedly (as a band at least) non-political. Perhaps that is one of
the reasons they lasted so long. I don't think the deadhead subculture is
much of a defense against the fascists. The drug underground much more
extensive and tenacious; what would happen in a fascist overthrow after Jerry
and and friends have been killed? There would be a few holdouts, but in
general the dead scene (because it is a live scene) would wither. As for the
dead encouraging non-conformity, I think Boy George is doing a better job;
he is more popular and less-conforming.

> > Compare it to the solidarity
> > underground in Poland for a moment....

I don't think the comparison is a good one. I don't want to imply that
deadheads aren't politically active, but dead related activity is decidedly
a-political.

> A bunch of wasted hippies on drugs

nice categorizing there...

> seeing themselves as analogous to the resistance of the Solidarity
> movement, fighting for "freedom" in a way similar to what Poles have had
> to go through.

Interesting to see how one letter suddenly stands for a "bunch" and that
that bunch is the "wasted hippies on drugs" group. If a person from <generic
religion> makes }ia bogus claimxD, tolerant people recognize it for what
it is; a claim made by one person, not necessarily the views of the whole
organization.

> The "deadhead subculture" is perhaps
> one of THE single strongest elements within the new yuppie subculture,
> neo-conservative non-youths in business suits get to dress up like they
> did back in college and smoke dope and take drugs and drive home in their
> BMW's.

Please back this up with something other then top-of-the-head assertions.

--Cliff [Matthews]
{purdue, cmcl2, ihnp4}!lanl!unmvax!cliff
{csu-cs, pur-ee, convex, gatech, ucbvax}!unmvax!cliff
4744 Trumbull S.E. - Albuquerque NM 87108 - (505) 265-9143

Dick Dunn

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Apr 3, 1985, 2:00:52 PM4/3/85
to
From Rich Rosen:
> ...A bunch of wasted hippies on drugs

> seeing themselves as analogous to the resistance of the Solidarity
> movement, fighting for "freedom" in a way similar to what Poles have had
> to go through. It's just hysterical. And truly degrading to what those
> people have had to go through...

Granted, the comparison between D'Heads and Solidarity just doesn't make
it. But where does Rosen get the moronic idea that DeadHeads are just "a
bunch of wasted hippies on drugs..."? Probably straight out of Rolling
Stone or some other equally intellectual publication. He certainly didn't
get it out of contact with DeadHeads. Rosen has stepped outside of common
sense and minimal civility (to say nothing of the bounds of net.music) just
for the sake of flaming people he doesn't like. Poor Rich, you can see
that his supposedly braod view of the world of music and how people relate
to it is really a paper-thin veneer.

>...The "deadhead subculture" is perhaps


> one of THE single strongest elements within the new yuppie subculture,
> neo-conservative non-youths in business suits get to dress up like they
> did back in college and smoke dope and take drugs and drive home in their
> BMW's. This comparison makes me really sick.

The comparison WAS silly--I agree. So why not just attack the comparison
instead of everyone who was unwillingly compared. Look, I am a DeadHead
but I DO NOT see myself as doing anything analogous to Solidarity, and it
is silly to say that I am. Neither am I neo-conservative, nor wear
business suits, nor drive a BMW (or similar yupmobile, tho I don't know
what that matters). The DeadHead subculture, to the extent that it admits
classification (i.e., hardly at all) is the antithesis of the yuppie
subculture. Finally, anyone who labels me a "wasted hippie on drugs" is a
flaming asshole.
--
Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086
...At last it's the real thing...or close enough to pretend.

SteinDW

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Apr 5, 1985, 12:34:23 PM4/5/85
to
Cliff Matthews says...

> Hmmm... the Dead are also one of the few bands that started in the 60's that
> were decidedly (as a band at least) non-political. Perhaps that is one of
> the reasons they lasted so long. I don't think the deadhead subculture is
> much of a defense against the fascists. The drug underground much more
> extensive and tenacious; what would happen in a fascist overthrow after Jerry
> and and friends have been killed? There would be a few holdouts, but in
> general the dead scene (because it is a live scene) would wither. As for the
> dead encouraging non-conformity, I think Boy George is doing a better job;
> he is more popular and less-conforming.

I wonder about the non-politicalness or apoliticalness of the Dead, even
in their early days. Songs like "Morning Dew", "Cumberland Blues", and
"Throwing Stones" come immediatelly to mind. Also, my memory seems to
recall the Dead being heavily involved in the "Tune In, Turn On, and Drop
Out" philosophy of the late sixties. This seems to me to be an active, if
uneffective, way of protesting the values and actions of society.

Ofcourse, I always was an unsatisfied (and ineffective) rebel. :-)

Don Stein
druny!stein

"A peaceful place, or so it looks from space,
A closer look reveals the human race."

Michael M. Sykora

unread,
Apr 8, 1985, 4:25:00 AM4/8/85
to
>/* st...@druny.UUCP / 12:34 pm Apr 5, 1985 */

>
>I wonder about the non-politicalness or apoliticalness of the Dead, even
>in their early days. Songs like "Morning Dew", "Cumberland Blues", and
>"Throwing Stones" come immediatelly to mind. Also, my memory seems to

Don't forget about "US Blues."

nm34

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Apr 10, 1985, 10:50:12 AM4/10/85
to

As an avid Dead fan for going on 15 years now, and as a sometimes
political activist, I have always been disappointed with the apolitical
nature of the Dead and their songs. I have felt that the Deads lyrics
and activities were an attempt to promote positive asspects of American
culture but these attempts fell short becouse of their distannce from
the political arena. It has onlybeen lately that I have learned that
they have been active in a moderate way. I have found out that they
have been doing benefit concerts for what I consider worthy causes for
going back to the begining. Forgetting the concerts for the Hells
Angels ( a group that I do not consider a positive political force) they
have done concerts for Angela Davis and the Black Panthers (both with
poor P.R. but positive and potent forces in their time) for Tom Hayden
and anti-nuclear groups.

Now we are finding political messages in their song. I should have
said blatent political messages, I believe that their lyrics have always
been political in a positive sence all along, but on a alegorical level.
One of their latest songs, "Throwing Stones" is and obvious anti-nuclear
war song.

I am happy to see it.

- Andy Bindman

P.S. Only three days to two glorious nights at Irvine.

"Singing ashes, ashes all fall down..."

Bill Pitzonka

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Apr 26, 1985, 4:01:55 PM4/26/85
to

A: No.

William Close

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May 2, 1985, 4:18:08 PM5/2/85
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A: Both.
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