Led Zeppelin fans

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William L. Trainor

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Sep 19, 1985, 8:34:43 PM9/19/85
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Sender:Bill Trainor

Hello, out there! I'm new to this mail stuff and I'd like to know if there
are any hardcore (or even not-so-hard-core) Zeppelin fans, especially ones who
think Jimmy Page is the greatest thing on strings, out there in newsland. I would
really like to chat with you. Just leave a reply so I can get back to you.


THanx.

showard

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Sep 23, 1985, 5:09:04 PM9/23/85
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How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-
Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.

I do, however, feel that Led Zeppelin was one of the few bands who made the
seventies more than just fragments of the sixties (musically speaking of course)

Their best songs (in my not-so-humble opinion) were "Fool in the Rain" and
"I'm Gonna Crawl" from "In Through the Out Door," "Dazed and Confused" from
the first album, and "Misty Mountain Hop" from the fourth. Notice which song
is deliberately eliminated, due mostly to over-exposure.

Something for LZ fans to think about: To what extent do you agree with the
Rolling Stone Book of Rock Lists that the first album was "recycled Jeff Beck
Group"?

--Mr. Blore, the DJ who would not die
-- ..udenva!showard
"I ain't gonna go by bus ..."

Neal Bedard

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Sep 24, 1985, 4:39:35 AM9/24/85
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In article <11...@ritvp.UUCP>, wlt...@ritvp.UUCP (William L. Trainor)
writes:

I seem to recall that an interviewer once asked Jimmy Page who he thought was
the best guitarist. His answer?

"Clapton"

-Neal
--
"whaddya mean there were bullet-holes in his mirror..."
UUCP: {turtlevax, resonex, cae780}!weitek!neal

Kevin Chu

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Sep 26, 1985, 11:34:50 AM9/26/85
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[...]

> How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
> has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-
> Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.
>
John Paul Jones was there. He played bass and keyboards like the old days.

I have heard (not from reliable sources) that they plan to continue this
reunion with Tony Thompson as drummer. Thompson and Phil Collins both played
drums at Live-Aid.

And before someone jumps all over me, I know that Robert Plant said he would
never do this again, but I am just repeating what I heard.

Roger Daltry also said he would never sing with The Who again, too.

--Kevin Chu
..ucbvax!ucdavis!vega!ccs020

/ex

Floyd C. Wofford

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Sep 26, 1985, 3:58:13 PM9/26/85
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>I seem to recall that an interviewer once asked Jimmy Page who he thought was
>the best guitarist. His answer?
>
> "Clapton"
>-Neal

The way I heard the story Page's reply was "Phil Keaggy".

Andrew W. Rogers

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Sep 26, 1985, 9:26:42 PM9/26/85
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In article <8...@udenva.UUCP> sho...@udenva.UUCP (showard) writes:
>>I'd like to know if there are any hardcore Zeppelin fans, especially ones
>>who think Jimmy Page is the greatest thing on strings...

>
> How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player
>who has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the
>Plant-Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking
>about.

Anyone who's heard The Firm knows what you're talking about, too. Hasn't done
much for Paul Rodgers' reputation either (assuming you think he had one)!

I didn't see Live Aid, so I wasn't aware of JPJ's absence... who took his
place? And once and for all, just who did play drums?

> I do, however, feel that Led Zeppelin was one of the few bands who made the

> 70's more than just fragments of the 60's (musically speaking of course).


>
> Their best songs (in my not-so-humble opinion) were "Fool in the Rain" and
>"I'm Gonna Crawl" from "In Through the Out Door," "Dazed and Confused" from
>the first album, and "Misty Mountain Hop" from the fourth. Notice which song
>is deliberately eliminated, due mostly to over-exposure.

Speaking of a certain over-exposed tune... I was a college DJ circa '72-'73,
and when someone would request you-know-what, I'd play the Neil Sedaka song
of the same title!

> Something for LZ fans to think about: To what extent do you agree with the
>Rolling Stone Book of Rock Lists that the first album was "recycled Jeff Beck
>Group"?

Consider John Mendelsohn's RS review of the first album (quoted from memory):

"The formula seems to be: take an ex-Yardbirds guitarist, add a pretty
soul-belter who can do a good spade impression and a competent rhythm
section... Led Zeppelin has little to offer that its twin, the Jeff Beck
Group, hasn't already done better..."

Let's see... Page wrote "Beck's Bolero", JPJ played organ on "Old Man River",
and both groups covered "You Shook Me", a Willie Dixon tune that is so
overdone that even Zep didn't dare to claim they had written it! Don't know
if I'd call them "twins", though...

Speaking of "recycling", you could say that "Dazed and Confused" was
recycled Jake Holmes (who had performed a very similar song called "I'm
Confused" as the opening act for the latter-day Yardbirds), or that
"How Many More Times" is a recycling of God-knows-who's "How Many More
Years" and Albert King's "The Hunter", plus a snatch of "Beck's Bolero".

Of course, Willie Dixon sued LZ for allegedly Page-iarizing a tune of his
for "Whole Lotta Love"... and wasn't it nice of P,P,J,&B to give Memphis
Minnie 1/5 of the writing credit for a tune she came up with before any
of them were born? I'm told that "Boogie With Stu" is a note-for-note
copy of some 50's tune (I don't recall which). "Bring It On Home" is
"borrowed" from Sonny Boy Williamson...

Andrew W. Rogers


PS: Not to brag or anything, but I heard Zep on their second or third US
date (Aerodrome, Schenectady NY)!

Doug Alan

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Sep 27, 1985, 1:50:19 AM9/27/85
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> [sho...@udenva.UUCP:] How about people who think that Jimmy Page was

> a very good guitar player who has been riding on his reputation for
> about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ
> there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.

Anyone who's heard Roy Harper's 1985 album "Whatever Happened to
Jugula?" knows that Jimmy Page can still do amazing things with a
guitar. He's probably usually just bummed out that he never gets to
play any good music except when he's working with Roy Harper.

"I wanted to live forever
The way that you will too"

Doug Alan
nes...@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)

kim...@wdl1.uucp

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Sep 27, 1985, 9:23:32 PM9/27/85
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/***** wdl1:net.music / udenva!showard / 2:09 pm Sep 23, 1985*/
Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin fans and Jimmy Page

> Hello, out there! I'm new to this mail stuff and I'd like to know if there
> are any hardcore (or even not-so-hard-core) Zeppelin fans, especially ones who

> think Jimmy Page is the greatest thing on strings, out there in newsland. I would
> really like to chat with you. Just leave a reply so I can get back to you.

How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who


has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-
Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.

John Paul Jones WAS there......

As for Jimmy Page riding his reputation, no, I don't see it quite that way.

I suppose next you will try to compare him to the most :-) innovative
guitarist in the world.....Eddie Van Halen..(GOD IS HE BORING!)

By the way the one that has riding his repuation for a while is Jimmy
Hendrix. :-).

Sam

Paul Brownlow @ Data I/O -- Redmond, WA

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Sep 30, 1985, 5:21:14 PM9/30/85
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>
> How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
> has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-
> Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.
>
> --Mr. Blore, the DJ who would not die
> -- ..udenva!showard
> "I ain't gonna go by bus ..."

Not to disagree, but just to correct the facts. John Paul Jones *did* play
at the Live Aid reunion in Philly - they just didn't show him very much. He
was that fat, ugly guy playing bass. Phil Collins and Tony Thompson (Power
Station) were on drums. With the exception of the drummers, I thought the
group sounded like a bad pub band. Page was so messed up he could barely
stand, let alone play guitar.

Go ahead, flame me -- I used to be a LZ fan about a dozen years ago, but
not any more.

--
...."You're never alone with a schizophrenic."

Marcel F. Simon

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Oct 1, 1985, 8:26:28 AM10/1/85
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>I seem to recall that an interviewer once asked Jimmy Page who he thought was
>the best guitarist. His answer?
>
> "Clapton"
>-Neal

Of course, when asked the same question, Eric Clapton replied "B. B. King."

Marcel Simon

Rich Rosen

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Oct 1, 1985, 8:39:46 PM10/1/85
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>>I seem to recall that an interviewer once asked Jimmy Page who he thought was
>>the best guitarist. His answer?
>> "Clapton"

> Of course, when asked the same question, Eric Clapton replied "B. B. King."
> Marcel Simon

And of course, B.B. King replied to the same question by naming the truly
ultimate guitarist, Toejam Jawallaby.

Who, in turn, named ...
--
"Wait a minute. '*WE*' decided??? *MY* best interests????"
Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

Damballah Wedo

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Oct 2, 1985, 8:19:50 AM10/2/85
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> >>I seem to recall that an interviewer once asked Jimmy Page who he thought was
> >>the best guitarist. His answer?
> >> "Clapton"
>
> > Of course, when asked the same question, Eric Clapton replied "B. B. King."
>
> And of course, B.B. King replied to the same question by naming the truly
> ultimate guitarist, Toejam Jawallaby.
>
> Who, in turn, named ...

Why, Jimmy Page, of course.

This article is being submitted to Webster's dictionary as a sample
definition of "recursion."
--

Marcel-Franck Simon ihnp4!{mhuxr, hl3b5b}!mfs

" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n alle'
Nou se' papiyon, n-a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' "

Rich Rosen

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Oct 2, 1985, 10:30:14 PM10/2/85
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>>>>I seem to recall that an interviewer once asked Jimmy Page who he thought
>>>>was the best guitarist. His answer?
>>>> "Clapton"

>>> Of course, when asked the same question, Eric Clapton replied "B. B. King."

>>And of course, B.B. King replied to the same question by naming the truly
>>ultimate guitarist, Toejam Jawallaby.
>>
>> Who, in turn, named ...

> Why, Jimmy Page, of course.
>
> This article is being submitted to Webster's dictionary as a sample
> definition of "recursion."

It would be so IF that were true; unfortunately, Toejam Jawallaby named
Ace Frehley formerly of KISS as his choice. Which just shows to go ya...

(Why he did that is beyond me...)

Doug Alan

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Oct 4, 1985, 6:18:40 AM10/4/85
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> From: r...@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)

> It would be so IF that were true; unfortunately, Toejam Jawallaby named
> Ace Frehley formerly of KISS as his choice. Which just shows to go ya...

> (Why he did that is beyond me...)

Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are Fred Frith
and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.

"You dreamed of a big star
He played a mean guitar
He always ate at the Steak Bar"

palena

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Oct 7, 1985, 11:20:20 AM10/7/85
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In article <9...@ucdavis.UUCP> ccs...@ucdavis.UUCP (Kevin Chu) writes:
>
>[...]
>> How about people who think that Jimmy Page was a very good guitar player who
>> has been riding on his reputation for about 5 years? Anyone who saw the Plant-
>> Page reunion (why wasn't JPJ there?) on Live Aid knows what I'm talking about.

I saw Santana,Knopfler, and heard Clapton at Live-Aid.I
see nothing wrong with saying that Page held his own against all of
these heavyweights.Musically,Live-Aid wasn't a spectacular event.In
this context I don't feel it fair to denounce Page because he didn't
tear the place down.For him the days of the screaming Marshall/Les-
Paul are over,but the fact remains that he is still one of rock's most
distinctive guitarists and anyone who claims that Mark Knopfler is
one of the greats,I feel, is compelled to say that Page is a great as
well.Both are blues-based with distinctive tones and twists and per-
sonally, I think Page is better.(NO FLAMES ON THIS POINT).


I drew one strong conclusion about Jimmy Page from Live-Aid;
he'd better see a doctor or he isn't long for this world.I had to pinch
myself to convince myself I wasn't seeing his ghost.


Larry Palena
sjuvax/lp102911

Alexander G. Burchell

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Oct 7, 1985, 11:49:16 AM10/7/85
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Hear hear, Doug!

For some particularly incredible examples of Robert Fripp's unique
and amazing guitar playing listen to the following:

King's Lead Hat (Before and After Science, Brian Eno)
Discipline (Discipline, King Crimson) (+ all KC albums)
Parade (Bewitched, Andy Summers and Robert Fripp)

Etc., Etc. The man is out of this world, and whenever I express
that opinion, I usually hear:

1) Who?
2) No, Eddie Van Halen is the world's best guitarist!
3) Right On!


Alex Burchell

UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,hplabs,ihnp4,zehntel}!tektronix!reed!agb
ARPA: I wish.

( Where's the fish? )
--

Alex Burchell

UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,hplabs,ihnp4,zehntel}!tektronix!reed!agb
ARPA: I wish.

( Where's the fish? )

Damballah Wedo

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Oct 7, 1985, 10:48:41 PM10/7/85
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> Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are Fred Frith
> and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.
>
> Doug Alan

You are so wrong. The GREATEST guitarist of ALL time was Diesibon "Fat
Muhfuh" Utawanga, and ANYBODY who disagrees just does not know what he is
talking about.

So there!

P. Kirsch

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Oct 8, 1985, 12:23:45 PM10/8/85
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Distribution:


Organization: Saint Josephs Univ. Phila., Pa.
Keywords:

After the ARMS concert last year Clapton remarked "You know, (Jeff) Beck really
is the best"


B
>Marcel Simon


--


Another wunnerful letter from the semi-intelligent rotting brain of:

Paul Kirsch
St. Joseph's University
Philadelphia, Pa

{ astrovax | allegra | bpa | burdvax } !sjuvax!kirsch

I'm outside right now...do you know where your children are ? (snicker)

Rich Rosen

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Oct 8, 1985, 12:51:49 PM10/8/85
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>> Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are Fred Frith
>> and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.
>> Doug Alan

(Wanna bet?)

> You are so wrong. The GREATEST guitarist of ALL time was Diesibon "Fat
> Muhfuh" Utawanga, and ANYBODY who disagrees just does not know what he is
> talking about. So there!

> Marcel-Franck Simon ihnp4!{mhuxr, hl3b5b}!mfs

Look, guys, Toejam Jawallaby (as I've already said, the acknowledged greatest
guitarist of all time) has spoken, and he said Ace Frehley of KISS (once) is
the best guitarist, and if you can't go by the opinion of the greatest
guitarist of all time as to who the best guitarist in the world is, what can
you go by?

(If you doubt the veracity of my statements about Jawallaby, one listen
to his classic album "Fingers to the Bone" on Final Records, or his
collaboration with Amguana Kikbhuti and Tim "Sleeveless" Henderson ["Night
Fish" on Specialty/JCL Records], will surely convince you otherwise.)
--
"Meanwhile, I was still thinking..."
Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

Barth Richards

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Oct 8, 1985, 2:18:42 PM10/8/85
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In article <54...@mit-eddie.UUCP> nes...@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes:
>> From: r...@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
>
>> It would be so IF that were true; unfortunately, Toejam Jawallaby named
>> Ace Frehley formerly of KISS as his choice. Which just shows to go ya...
>
>> (Why he did that is beyond me...)
>
>Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are Fred Frith
>and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.

Don't let either one of them find out the other is ranked among the top
two guitarists in the world. Neither one is overly fond of the other.

Two friends of mine are acquainted with Fred Frith and witnessed his disgust
when he was asked if he had ever been compared to Robert Fripp and what he
he thought about that if he had.


Barth Richards
Tellabs, Inc.
Lisle, IL

"If God's up there, we're his excrement."
-Ron Geesin

Barth Richards

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Oct 9, 1985, 2:05:09 PM10/9/85
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In article <19...@reed.UUCP> a...@reed.UUCP (Alexander G. Burchell) writes:

> Alex Burchell
>
>UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,hplabs,ihnp4,zehntel}!tektronix!reed!agb
>ARPA: I wish.
>
>( Where's the fish? )

^
|_______________
|
Fish is currently the lead singer of Marillion. At the
moment, he's probably sitting at home in Wales.

Damballah Wedo

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Oct 10, 1985, 9:22:04 AM10/10/85
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> > The GREATEST guitarist of ALL time was Diesibon "Fat
> > Muhfuh" Utawanga, and ANYBODY who disagrees just does not know what he is
> > talking about. So there!
>
> Look, guys, Toejam Jawallaby (as I've already said, the acknowledged greatest
> guitarist of all time) has spoken, and he said Ace Frehley of KISS (once) is
> the best guitarist, and if you can't go by the opinion of the greatest
> guitarist of all time as to who the best guitarist in the world is, what can
> you go by?
>
> Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr
You got to watch out. Toejam is well-known for putting people on, especially
the media. I have it on unimpeacheable sources that he was kidding when he
said that about Frehley. It is quite clear that the Fat Muhfuh had a profound
influence on both Frehley and Jawallaby, so even if he was kidding, Utawanga
is THE greatest super-guitarist is all time. Andrew Muhammad al Oteiba, in his
book FAT MUHFUH, A GIANT AMONG TALL MEN (Poinsettia State University Press,
1983) shows the Fat man's influence on Toejam in great detail.
--

Marcel-Franck Simon ihnp4!{mhuxr, hl3b5b}!mfs

" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n alle'

Rich Rosen

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Oct 10, 1985, 11:25:17 AM10/10/85
to
> I saw Santana,Knopfler, and heard Clapton at Live-Aid. I see nothing wrong

> with saying that Page held his own against all of these heavyweights.

Perhaps this says more about the status of those "heavyweights" than anything
else... :-?
--
"There! I've run rings 'round you logically!"
"Oh, intercourse the penguin!" Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

Alexander G. Burchell

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Oct 11, 1985, 5:39:26 PM10/11/85
to
-- EAT THIS --

Boy, do I agree with you there. Fripp's solo on "Baby's on Fire"
(Here Come the Warm Jets, Brian Eno) is one of the most amazing things I
*have ever heard* on vinyl. Even more amazing considering that he did it
in one take. Another one on that album is "Blank Frank", more truly stunning
stuff. It's a shame that he never cuts loose like that anymore -- I think
he preferrs technical displays of virtuousity now, rather than blazin' and
amazin' guitar, like in the good old days. While I like his 10 minute long
songs made up of 16th notes, I often long for more unrestrained music from
the Master...
Speaking of Eno's guitarist collaborators, in between tracks on
"Primitive Guitars" (Phil Manzanara, Guitarist for Roxy Music), you will
here some random bits of talking while some Eno albums are being produced,
i.e. You hear a snatch of some Eno song you recognize and then you'll here
"Boy, that really gets in the groove", or "I think we need a bit more echo
here" etc. An interesting peek into the creative process, and a great album
as well.

Alex Burchell

UUCP: ..!{decvax,ucbvax,hplabs,ihnp4,zehntel}!tektronix!reed!agb
ARPA: I wish.

( Find the Fish. Where, oh where, has that little fishy gone? )

Chris Granner

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Oct 12, 1985, 12:23:17 AM10/12/85
to
>>
>>Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are Fred Frith
>>and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.
>> Doug Alan
>> nes...@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
>
>Hey Doug--
>...
>
>--because it depends on your own personal tastes to decide who is *THE* best.
>
> Paul Kirsch
>

OK...

Speaking for MYSELF and MY OWN PERSONAL TASTES and with MY OWN OPINION

(instead of usually when I speak for everyone else)

In other words, could we have a little less criticism of an article which
states the author's thought without reminding the world that he's
referring to his own view of the world, as if he had a choice?

-cg (...!ihnp4!laidbak!chris)

oh-- Fripp.

"it is so clear you can see the spider chips on the cobwebs."

Doug Alan

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Oct 12, 1985, 9:47:12 PM10/12/85
to
> From: Barth Richards

>> [Me:] Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are


>> Fred Frith and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.

> Don't let either one of them find out the other is ranked among the top


> two guitarists in the world. Neither one is overly fond of the other.

What are their gripes with one another? One would think they'd each
respect each other, in that they are both such innovators....

"My house"
"Your house"
"My house
Well get out there's the door"

Doug Alan
nes...@mit-eddie.ARPA (or UUCP)

Gary Oberbrunner

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Oct 14, 1985, 1:33:20 PM10/14/85
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Yea Fripp!
For some truly DIFFERENT and amazing Robert Fripp, check out ``The Cheerful
Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp'' - a pre-Crimson (1968?) album. It has
some of the most seductively simple melodies Fripp ever wrote couching
entirely outrageous lyrics, as well as several unbelievable guitar solos.
The whole record is clearly in the middle-60's vein, but even then Fripp
shone through as a compositional and musical genius. His `power through
understatement' musical philosophy is clearer on this record than any
other I've heard, maybe because the surface simplicity of the music lulls
you into a false sense of security, so when he hits you you FEEL it.
Anyway, enough pontificating. The record is great - get it, you'll love it.

- Gary Oberbrunner
...{ihnp4,harvard,allegra}!masscomp!garyo

palena

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Oct 15, 1985, 11:36:55 AM10/15/85
to


Yeah,I love follow-ups.Somebody takes two lines from your
article,comes up with a cute rebuttal,and "runs rings 'round...etc."
I guess when you're presented with the opportunity to see Mick Jagger
trip over himself in a video of the 724th remake of "Dancin' in the
Streets",and then later (live,no less),attempt a rape of Tina Turner,
a couple of old farts like Page and Plant just won't do.I mean who
cares if it was the last time that "Stairway to Heaven" may ever be
performed by the two.I mean if Jones is a bit overweight that just
ruins the whole experience.

Just another timely contribution to
net.KateBush,

Larry Palena,
St. Joseph's Univ.

{ astrovax | allegra | bpa | burdvax } !sjuvax!lp102911

palena

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Oct 15, 1985, 11:45:12 AM10/15/85
to
In article <7...@mit-eddie.UUCP> nes...@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes:
>> From: Barth Richards
>
>>> [Me:] Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are
>>> Fred Frith and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.
>
>> Don't let either one of them find out the other is ranked among the top
>> two guitarists in the world. Neither one is overly fond of the other.
>
>What are their gripes with one another? One would think they'd each
>respect each other, in that they are both such innovators....
>

...and of course both have the tremendous honor of
being favorites of your's.

Just another timely contribution to
net.KateBush,

Larry Palena

P. Kirsch

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Oct 16, 1985, 1:27:36 PM10/16/85
to
In article <2...@laidbak.UUCP> the net writes:
>>>
>>>Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are Fred Frith
>>>and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.
>>> Doug Alan
>>> nes...@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
>>
>>Hey Doug--
>>...
>>
>>--because it depends on your own personal tastes to decide who is *THE* best.
>>
>> Paul Kirsch
>>
>
>OK...
>
>Speaking for MYSELF and MY OWN PERSONAL TASTES and with MY OWN OPINION
>
>(instead of usually when I speak for everyone else)
>
>In other words, could we have a little less criticism of an article which
>states the author's thought without reminding the world that he's
>referring to his own view of the world, as if he had a choice?
>
>-cg (...!ihnp4!laidbak!chris)


I REALIZE that he's giving his own view--what I was trying to point out is
that I think it's kind of ridiculous to have an argument about who is the
best guitarist because it IS such a personal judgement.

Comments like "Oh he's not as good as so and so" are what I'm talking
about. It's kind of a ridiculous thing to say because you can't prove
it--a comment like "so and so is also good" would be a lot more appropriate
than trying to say "so and so" is *THEE* best.


--


Another wunnerful letter from the semi-intelligent rotting brain of:

Paul Kirsch
St. Joseph's University
Philadelphia, Pa

{ astrovax | allegra | bpa | burdvax } !sjuvax!kirsch

Warning: Objects in Terminal Room are Closer than they Appear...

Barth Richards

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Oct 17, 1985, 1:42:12 PM10/17/85
to
In article <7...@mit-eddie.UUCP> nes...@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes:

>> From: Barth Richards
>
>>> [Me:] Clearly because they are all wrong! The best guitarists are


>>> Fred Frith and Robert Frip, and there can be *no* argument.
>

>> Don't let either one of them find out the other is ranked among the top
>> two guitarists in the world. Neither one is overly fond of the other.
>
>What are their gripes with one another? One would think they'd each
>respect each other, in that they are both such innovators....

I'm not exactly sure what their gripes are. You're right though; one would
think that they would have mutual respect.

I think Fred's (Frith) gripe has to do with the fact that Robert (Fripp) seems
to take himself a bit too seriously. Despite the fact that Fripp is a
phenominal and inventive guitarist, you really can't deny that he does
sometimes seem to have gone over the edge. (e.g.<no pun intended> the back
cover of LET THE POWER FALL, where he defines the laws by which "systems"
operate. Whether you agree with the theories he expresses on this subject or
not, you would have to say that this seems a little out of place, i.e.
pretentious) on an album cover.

I think Fripp's gripe might have to do with not liking ANYONE who says that
he takes himself too seriously.

I think that Fred is a bit irritated with the British music press. When Robert
came out with THE LEAGUE OF GENTLEMEN album the BMP thought it was less than
expected, and thought that Fred's album was fantastic. (I don't remember,
off-hand, which Frith came out at about the same time as THE L.O.G.) When it
came to publicity, however, the BMP lavished it on Fripp, with virtually none
going to Frith. So, I think that that might have added to the tension between
them.

Hope this helps to clear things up. (Then again, it may not.)


Barth Richards
Tellabs, Inc.
Lisle, IL

"Our time has come, age of the hammerheads
This is our mission, to be the DALEKS
of God"
-Shriekback, "Hammerheads"
from the album OIL AND GOLD

Rich Rosen

unread,
Oct 18, 1985, 10:44:38 AM10/18/85
to
>>> I saw Santana,Knopfler, and heard Clapton at Live-Aid. I see nothing wrong
>>> with saying that Page held his own against all of these heavyweights.

>>Perhaps this says more about the status of those "heavyweights" than anything
>>else... :-?

> Yeah,I love follow-ups.Somebody takes two lines from your

> article,comes up with a cute rebuttal,and "runs rings 'round...etc."
> I guess when you're presented with the opportunity to see Mick Jagger
> trip over himself in a video of the 724th remake of "Dancin' in the
> Streets",and then later (live,no less),attempt a rape of Tina Turner,
> a couple of old farts like Page and Plant just won't do.

Not when they simply weren't up to snuff. They're not "great" just because
you say they're great, or because you like to think they're great, or because
they were great. (I really have no idea what real point Mr. Palena is trying
to make.) Jimmy Page has a face and brain that have essentially turned to
liquid as a result of overuse of a certain drug. It shows in his playing.
The man is simply not the great guitarist he was when he recorded "Rock and
Roll", "Communications Breakdown", "Heartbreaker", "Immigrant Song", "The
Crunge". Nor is Clapton the same guitarist he was when he recorded "Layla",
"Tales of Brave Ulysses", "Little Wing", etc. To say that they are is to
denigrate the people who are really guitarists today. What Jagger does is
irrelevant, since if anything he qualifies as an even older fart.

> I mean who cares if it was the last time that "Stairway to Heaven" may ever
> be performed by the two.

If it wasn't performed well, indeed, who cares? (I might even be tempted to
say "Good riddance" after that performance.) Hey, I watched it too and was
impressed that they got back together and all, but on second watching I found
the whole set to be wanting.

> I mean if Jones is a bit overweight that just ruins the whole
> experience.

Strange set of values, there. I didn't like it merely because I didn't like
the performance. Jones' obesity (which I didn't notice and haven't noticed
yet in seeing interviews of him, so I have no idea what you're talking about)
was and is a non-issue.

> Just another timely contribution to
> net.KateBush,
> Larry Palena,

It's apparent where this person is coming from.

Rich Rosen

unread,
Oct 18, 1985, 7:12:35 PM10/18/85
to
> I think Fred's (Frith) gripe has to do with the fact that Robert (Fripp) seems
> to take himself a bit too seriously. Despite the fact that Fripp is a
> phenominal and inventive guitarist, you really can't deny that he does
> sometimes seem to have gone over the edge. (e.g.<no pun intended> the back
> cover of LET THE POWER FALL, where he defines the laws by which "systems"
> operate. Whether you agree with the theories he expresses on this subject or
> not, you would have to say that this seems a little out of place, i.e.
> pretentious) on an album cover.

I found Fripp's inclusion of such material to be quite interesting, especially
the way he relates it all to the music industry. It is applicable in the
world of government, business, and society, also, to be sure, but Fripp's
notions of the operations of systems apply directly to the "music business",
especially how bureaucracies eventually change their purpose from their
original intent to the end of preserving their own existence and maximizing
it, leading to musical dinsoaurs that flourished in the late 70s and still
flourish today. (If there's one thing I find more repulsive than Madonna,
it's Grace Slick whining like an old woman how "we built this city" to us
young whippersnappers. It seems THIS last generation is more obnoxious about
its music than the previous one, wherein our parents used to tell us "you
mean you don't know who Benny Goodman is?" Today, you get people like Scott
Muni playing "Layla" on the radio and saying "Well, if you don't know what that
is, too bad!") I digress. Fripp has always impressed me as one of the more
literate and intelligent people in modern "popular" music, and despite his
quirks, I find his inclusion of such material interesting.

Damballah Wedo

unread,
Oct 18, 1985, 10:51:02 PM10/18/85
to
> ... It seems THIS last generation is more obnoxious about

> its music than the previous one, wherein our parents used to tell us "you
> mean you don't know who Benny Goodman is?" Today, you get people like Scott
> Muni playing "Layla" on the radio and saying "Well, if you don't know what
> that is, too bad!")
> --
> Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr

Not to be perverse, especially since I gnerally agree with you, but not
having heard Eric Clapton (or/and Benny Goodman) disqualifies one from
having any sort of perspective on current musical developments. Surely
you would not say that current rock'n'roll exists outside the strem of
thirty years of rock history. A willingness on the part of current
musicians to acknowledge their influences might help them avoid the endless
recycling that plagues rock and pop. Like the sudden renewal of ersatz
psychedelia. Or the short lived rockabilly revival (remember the Stray
Cats?) Nice ideas that got bogged down because no one thought of acknowledging
the Byrds or Gene Vincent, and wound up redoing the work, until the
momentum died and the public turned to someone else.

You are right that as one generation of artists exhausts its talent, its
children will find other people to get excited about. That does not erase
the contributions of the elders.
--

Marcel-Franck Simon ihnp4!{mhuxr, hl3b5b}!mfs

" Sa ou pa konnin toujou pi fo pase' ou "

Rich Rosen

unread,
Oct 19, 1985, 9:00:21 PM10/19/85
to
>>> The GREATEST guitarist of ALL time was Diesibon "Fat
>>> Muhfuh" Utawanga, and ANYBODY who disagrees just does not know what he is
>>> talking about. So there!

>>Look, guys, Toejam Jawallaby (as I've already said, the acknowledged greatest
>>guitarist of all time) has spoken, and he said Ace Frehley of KISS (once) is
>>the best guitarist, and if you can't go by the opinion of the greatest
>>guitarist of all time as to who the best guitarist in the world is, what can
>>you go by?

> You got to watch out. Toejam is well-known for putting people on, especially


> the media. I have it on unimpeacheable sources that he was kidding when he
> said that about Frehley. It is quite clear that the Fat Muhfuh had a profound
> influence on both Frehley and Jawallaby, so even if he was kidding, Utawanga
> is THE greatest super-guitarist is all time.

Utawanga did develop the "fishslap" technique later resurrected by other
guitarists (including Carlo Huggins and Jackie Selgar). But it WAS Jawallaby
who took that technique to its logical conclusion (Utawanga never used it in
as electronic a fashion as Jawallaby). In addition, Jawallaby's inventiveness
in the arena of electronic guitar modulation preceded Jimi Hendrix and
Toshiro Mashimi by at least five years, with the development of the whizzbox
and the chrometone pedal which are now standard accessories (under other
names, of course) of every guitarist's ensemble. Jawallaby's music broke
new ground in a way that Utawanga never could. Furthermore, Jawallaby may
have been a bit of a practical joker (recalling the "secret note" on the
cover of his "Chimes Sender" album), but that behavior never extended itself
into his discussions about music. He was always serious about music, his
and others'.
--
Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen.
Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr

palena

unread,
Oct 23, 1985, 11:59:28 AM10/23/85
to
In article <18...@pyuxd.UUCP> r...@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes:
>> Yeah,I love follow-ups.Somebody takes two lines from your
>> article,comes up with a cute rebuttal,and "runs rings 'round...etc."
...etc...

>
>Not when they simply weren't up to snuff. They're not "great" just because
>you say they're great, or because you like to think they're great, or because
>they were great. (I really have no idea what real point Mr. Palena is trying
>to make.) Jimmy Page has a face and brain that have essentially turned to
>liquid as a result of overuse of a certain drug. It shows in his playing.

...I don't make points,I SCORE them.I learned my debating technique
at the Don Rickles School of Oratory and Rhetoric.Page doesn't look
the way he did because of drugs.That's just naivete' in the worst.
The fact is that he has always been of frail health.He turned down
his first chance to join the Yardbirds because he didn't think he
could survive the arduous touring.His terrible physical condition
is the result of his aggravating this with years and years of work-
ing with Zeppelin.He was involved in heroin,but kicked the habit
shortly after Bonham's death.If you don't believe this,all I can say
is that he has always looked that way,for at least the last six years.

>The man is simply not the great guitarist he was when he recorded "Rock and
>Roll", "Communications Breakdown", "Heartbreaker", "Immigrant Song", "The
>Crunge". Nor is Clapton the same guitarist he was when he recorded "Layla",

...while your ability to name Zeppelin tunes in admirable,your
opinion of Page still sucks and shows your ignorance."Immigrant
Song" is simply an octave lick with a few sliding bar-chords.He
can probably play that song as well today as he did in 1970...

>"Tales of Brave Ulysses", "Little Wing", etc. To say that they are is to
>denigrate the people who are really guitarists today.

..."the people who are really guitarists today" play the guitar
with their index fingers instead of picks.Most of them owe a great
deal to Page...


>
>> I mean who
>> cares if it was the last time that "Stairway to Heaven" may ever be
>> performed by the two.
>
>If it wasn't performed well, indeed, who cares?
>

...that song was a cultural icon,the ultimate statement of the hippie
generation (at least from the British point of view).Some people req-
uested radio stations to play it to coincide with teenager's funerals.
It was a momentous occasion to see the song's authors perform it to-
gether for probably the last time,even if they were a little out of
practice...

>> I mean if Jones is a bit overweight that just ruins the whole
>> experience.
>
>Strange set of values, there. I didn't like it merely because I didn't like
>the performance. Jones' obesity (which I didn't notice and haven't noticed

>yet in seeing interviews of him, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
>

...apologies are in order here.I know somebody asked the net if Jones
were at Live-Aid and received the response,"Yeah,he was the fat,ugly
guy playing bass."If you weren't responsible for this then I'm sorry
for the mix-up...

>> Just another timely contribution to
>> net.KateBush,
>> Larry Palena,
>
>It's apparent where this person is coming from.
>--

...PERSON!!?? PERSON!!?? I think you should know that the last dude
who called me a person is still looking for his head!!!...

I don't know how long this seriousness
streak is going to last,

Larry Palena,
lp102911@sjuvax

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