teens
jan brown
Our sixteen year old and her boyfriend seem to be getting
"very close". I don't want to see her get pregnant. I'm
worried but don't know what to do. Should I talk to her about
birth control? If so, how?
lee carter
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*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
a.reed
Many, if not most teenagers experiment with sex without waiting for
the context of a caring relationship. If you have reason to believe
that your daughter would not engage in sexual experimentation except
with someone she is "very close" with, then you are to be congratulated
on her character. And given that you have reason to be proud of her
character, you would be seriously remiss if you don't give her what she
needs to live responsibly. Indeed, birth control is best discussed
before pregnancy becomes, at puberty, a real possibility. So let us hope
that you are not too late.
My wife is the school psychologist of an affluent suburban high school,
and she is often concerned about the consequences of unplanned
pregnancies. This is the most frequent cause of serious attempts at
suicide among teenage women, and a frequent trigger of deep depression
and serious mental disturbance. An abortion, or giving up a baby for
adoption, usually results in deep emotional trauma. Keeping a baby
at that age usually prevents the teenager from ever developing
emotionally and intellectually into a fully functional adult. The better
colleges uniformly view an unplanned pregnancy as a sign of
irresponsibility, and so taking time off from school, once pregnant, can
be a long-lasting impediment. I hope this scares you, because I know
that you have no time to lose.
As for how to talk with your daughter about birth control, sensible
advice would probably fill a book, so it may be best for you to read
one or more. I would recommend "Sex and Birth Control" by Lieberman and
Peck; "Youth and Sex: Pleasure and Responsibility" by Gordon Jensen,
and "Sex Without Shame" by Alayne Yates. The latter book is especially
useful, since the Yates, a psychiatrist and the mother of thirteen
children, writes as much from her own experience as from psychological
theory. Read quickly and talk with your daughter soon.
Adam Reed (ihnp4!npois!adam)
Pamela K. Whitehurst
Yes, very carefully. You don't want her to get the impression that
her parents expect her to have sex. You do want her to realize that if
she has sex in the next 40 years without taking precautions then she
will get pregnant.
> If so, how?
I have been trying to come up with a discussion based on the fact that
sometime in the next few years my daughter, (and yours) will be in a
situation where sexual intercourse is a possibility. I can tell her
my views, and the reasons I have them. (And definitely will!) But,
she, and her partner, will be the ones who say 'no' or 'yes'.
It may be a long time before she decides she needs this information,
but I would rather she has it years ahead of time than an hour late.
I intend to tell her what I know about different forms of birth control,
their drawbacks and effectiveness, to provide her with printed material
that she can keep until she is ready to read it, and to talk about where
she can go to obtain birth control supplies and what type of
questions she can expect them to ask.
Right now, the hardest part looks like what to do if parental permission
is required in order to obtain birth control supplies. Do I give her
permission ahead of time and risk loosing out on a chance to talk with her
when she is actually making an important decision, or do I have her
let me know when she needs it and risk her not being ready to
talk and taking a dumb chance?
I think I have a couple more years to think about this. She has actually
been introduced to the idea of birth control. The grade school had
information available to sixth graders, and the junior high
had some talk about it in the sex-ed films. A one-on-one discussion
is still the best.
--
P. K. Whitehurst
hplabs!oliveb!tymix!whitehur
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| General Disclaimer: The above opinions are my own and |
| do not necessarily reflect the opinions |
| of McDonnell Douglas Corporation. |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
dol...@uiucdcs.cs.uiuc.edu
On reading about the "problem" you feel you might have with your daughter,
my first response was to answer you on how I felt about it. But, I came
up with an idea that I feel may be of more help to you and your daughter.
I am going to let my oldest daughter, who is 18, respond instead.
Her ideas are her own and not necessarily mine.
Here is her reply:
"As a responsible 18 year old girl, I feel that my opinions may be helpful.
The worried mother tells little of her daughter's behavior and attitudes
as a whole. Also, how long have she and her boyfriend been seeing
one another? Anyway, my advice is this: There are basically two kinds
of teenage girls. There are some, like myself and my fourteen year old
sister, who are intelligent, mature, and moral as far as "boys and sex,"
drugs, and alcohol go. We are responsible in the sense that we don't
have sex, not in the sense that we take precautions first. Two young
people can get "close" without sex. (Speaking to the mother) If your
daughter is this type of person, (and you will have no doubts, if she is),
then the worst thing you can do is degrade her by assumptions.
DO NOT go to her and say "Well, I see you two are becoming close, so I
'assume' you will be thinking about sex, and I 'assume' you will proceed
without birth control unless I tell you otherwise."
If anything, show your daughter that you are not the enemy, but, indeed,
the helpful mother. Welcome the boy over and make their relationship
a calm one with the family, and if a problem should arise, communication
will be open. If your daughter starts to feel that, in your eyes, close
relationships are wrong, she will go behind your back and communications
will suffer. SEX DOES NOT DEFINE A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP.
On the other hand, over one-half of the girls I have known are not
responsible and mature. Other kids refer to them as "sluts."
They see no wrong in a little good sex (or a lot for that matter)
and are usually enjoying a rebellious period in their life. Some
are hopeless and talking to them is a pathetic waste of time. It is
enough to just throw some birth control their way, and hope they'll,
at least, use it. I don't believe your daughter fits under this
category since you say she is 16 and just now getting into a close
relationship.
Perhaps a good book for her would be helpful. Don't say "Here is a
book on birth control -- you will probably need it soon." If anything
find a book written for teens that answers all questions about sex,
boys, etc. so that she won't feel that you are hinting or assuming
something. Tell her that a friend of yours suggested it and that
you'd wished you'd had one when you were her age because it is
sometimes difficult to speak to parents concerning sex. Tell her to
never feel embarrassed or ashamed to come to you with any
questions and problems because together you can work them out.
Leave the lines of communication open and then leave well enough
alone. Teens have enough pressures without a parent's nose down
their backs. Show that you CARE, not that you SUSPECT.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to throw them
my way. I am majoring in child psychology and take great interest
in helping others."
Bear
about contraception. I was not going to respond because I am not a
parent and thought that this discussion should be left to parents.
However the 18 year old "responsible" daughter's self righteous advice
has left me shaking.
Who is she, by inuendo, to call those teens who practice sex sluts?
Or does she (or her classmates, although if she doesn't agree why quote
them?) only refer to the women as sluts? What stigmatization!
To suggest that a 16 year old would be insulted by contraceptive
literature (or for that matter, material) provided tactfully by a loving
and concerned parent is ridiculous. Besides, better to insult 99
teens than to have the 100th suffer the consequences of an unplanned
pregnancy. I am sadly aware that the teen pregnancy rate
(the highest amoung "developed" nations) is quite a bit higher than 1%.
--
Jerry Natowitz
ihnp4!houxm!hropus!jin (official)
ihnp4!opus!jin (temporary)
Institute for the Study of Non-existent Phenomena
sumo kindersley
good GRIEF! talk about self righteous!
the 18 year old's response was terrible, in my opinion. she said some very
good things (e.g. "sex does not define a close relationship" and that the
lines of communication must be opened and kept open by the mother). but the
incredible arrogance of deciding that any girl who has sex, or uses liquor
or drugs is irresponsible - i have only heard that kind of gall from extreme
religious types. which she isn't, clearly, or she would show some charity
even for those she considers inferior to her. she claimed that "there are
basically two kinds of teenage girls", that is, "intelligent, mature,
and moral" (like herself), and the "hopeless" girls who "see no wrong in a
little good sex". there are many other types - including those who have a
relationship with some commitment and also enjoy the closeness of a sexual
relationship, for instance.
whoever it was that posted the request in the first place, i advise you to
IGNORE that attitude problem of the 18 year old's and follow her advice on
a good overall book, and making sure that communication on this subject is
encouraged. AS WELL, please make sure that your daughter understands the
availability and NECESSITY of birth control methods if she does decide to
have sex. do not alienate her by adopting the above-criticised attitude.
my mother had an attitude like that of the 18yr old's posting. as a result
she never knew me after i started making my own decisions about that sort
of matter. now she is dead and she never did get my trust or confidence as
an adult. i prefer the attitude of my father after my mother was gone. he
didn't like the idea of us sleeping with someone outside of marriage, and
we knew that, but was willing to allow us the right to our own decisions.
as a result we didn't have to hide things from him.
and... why does a "mature" 18 year old refer to herself and what are
obviously women as "girls"?
Pamela K. Whitehurst
>I have been following this discussion on telling a 16 year old daughter
>about contraception. I was not going to respond because I am not a
>parent and thought that this discussion should be left to parents.
>However the 18 year old "responsible" daughter's self righteous advice
>has left me shaking.
>
>Who is she, by inuendo, to call those teens who practice sex sluts?
>Or does she (or her classmates, although if she doesn't agree why quote
>them?) only refer to the women as sluts? What stigmatization!
>To suggest that a 16 year old would be insulted by contraceptive
>literature (or for that matter, material) provided tactfully by a loving
>and concerned parent is ridiculous.
What the "18 year old responsible daughter" has shown us is: teenagers have
an opinion on sex. Her views may seem prudish but she, and others, have
formed that opinion of classmates who practice sex. Teenagers are not
usually tolerant of those who act different than their group. This
business of growing up can be difficult. One thing that makes it easier
is to say "I am good because I believe and act this way, just like my
friends." This, however, sometimes means those who do not act this way
are viewed as bad.
It takes time to have enough self-confidence to accept differences and
to realize that people are more than just one set of actions.
I guess one of the jobs of a teenager's parent is to help keep their
minds open (and our own).
There are 16 year olds who would be insulted by contraceptive literature
(MOM! How could you think I'd even want to do that!) no matter how
tactfully the loving and concerned parent approached the topic. This
does not get rid of the need to provide knowledge. It just makes it
more challenging.
C. Allen Grabert
really seen discussed. That is, what if the family's religious beliefs
state that premarital sex is improper? Not, 'If it feels good or if you
are with someone you love and you're protected, it's alright', but 'No
one may have sex until they are married because sex is specially
reserved for that time.' Is a mother in such a family doing wrong to
not talk to her daughter about contraception since that would imply that
the mother is condoning or expecting premarital sex? Should she tell
her daughter about contraception anyway because 'even though it's not
proper she is human and humans sometimes do things they shouldn't and
she should be protected just in case'? What if the parents believe that
they've raised their daughter to understand that she should wait until
marriage to have sex and also to come talk to them when she has
questions or conflicts between what they've taught her and what others
are telling her? (This ought to provoke a good discussion.)
--
"She's as beautiful, oh so beautiful, beautiful as a foot..."
Allen Grabert (...ittatc!bunker!allen)
Pamela K. Whitehurst
>[...] what if the family's religious beliefs
>state that premarital sex is improper?
>not talk to her daughter about contraception since that would imply that
>the mother is condoning or expecting premarital sex? Should she tell
>her daughter about contraception anyway because 'even though it's not
>proper she is human and humans sometimes do things they shouldn't and
>she should be protected just in case'?
It's just my belief but, contraceptives should be discussed when sex
is discussed. So far I have tried to keep the level of information about
contraceptives equivalent to the level of information about sex. (This
is where babies come from ... the mother decided to get pregnant)
Your questions seem to indicate that a mother who does not believe in
premarital sex will tell her daughter about sex. I am not sure she would.
However, if she tells her teenagers about sex she should also tell them
about the results of sex and how to control some of the results, before
they find out from someone else.
Religious beliefs that state premarital sex is improper have more
behind them than 'because you might get pregnant'. These are the
values that parents teach and (hopefully) children learn.
--
P. K. Whitehurst
...!hplabs!oliveb!tymix!whitehur
Victoria Rosly D'ull
> ......
> I am going to let my oldest daughter, who is 18, respond instead.
> Here is her reply:
>
> "As a responsible 18 year old girl, I feel that my opinions may be helpful.
> ......Anyway, my advice is this: There are basically two kinds
> of teenage girls. There are some, like myself and my fourteen year old
> sister, who are intelligent, mature, and moral as far as "boys and sex,"
> drugs, and alcohol go. We are responsible in the sense that we don't
> have sex, not in the sense that we take precautions first. Two young
> people can get "close" without sex.
>
> On the other hand, over one-half of the girls I have known are not
> responsible and mature. Other kids refer to them as "sluts."
> They see no wrong in a little good sex (or a lot for that matter)
> and are usually enjoying a rebellious period in their life.
Well, I've been avidly following the "teens and sex" discussion
so far, and I think I'll add my own $.02 worth of opinion. I'm a 17-year-
old girl myself, a junior (psychology major) at Johns Hopkins University.
I consider myself to be reasonably mature, intelligent, and responsible; I
have lived under my own supervision at school for three years and am not
putting on any interesting rebellions.
I also don't see any particular wrong in "a little good sex", as
this girl puts it, though I can't say I've ever been referred to as a "slut".
Certainly two young people can get "close" without sex; sometimes they can
also have a responsible relationship that includes it. Not all moral codes
preclude sex entirely, although for most young people a code of common sense
requires that precautions should go along with it.
> Some
> are hopeless and talking to them is a pathetic waste of time. It is
> enough to just throw some birth control their way, and hope they'll,
> at least, use it.
Oh, dear. Talking to your daughter with care and concern is never
a "pathetic waste of time". Any girl who is "hopeless" is very likely so
at least partially because she and her parents can't or won't communicate.
And how, for that matter, is it possible to "just throw some birth control
their way, and hope they'll, at least, use it"?? Leave a package of condoms
in their lunchbox? ("Mom, what the hell is THIS doing in here?") That sort
of behavior would be, at best, rather offensive -- "She thinks I'm having sex,
but she won't even talk to me".
>
> Perhaps a good book for her would be helpful......Tell her to
> never feel embarrassed or ashamed to come to you with any
> questions and problems because together you can work them out.
> Leave the lines of communication open and then leave well enough
> alone. Teens have enough pressures without a parent's nose down
> their backs. Show that you CARE, not that you SUSPECT.
>
This is very good advice. You obviously do care enough to want to
help your daughter with these matters, and simply reassuring her that you
are available and willing to talk may help her to come to you for any advice
she wants. Keep in mind, though, that these decisions must ultimately be
*her own* if she is going to abide by them wholeheartedly.
> If you have any other questions, please feel free to throw them
> my way. I am majoring in child psychology and take great interest
> in helping others."
Grown-up psychology here, but me, too :-).
Best of luck to both of you......
Victoria d'Ull
c...@ccice2.uucp
column". I just had to try to come up with two cents worth of
comments before I could bring myself to speak up (post).
It seems that I have lost the actual point which was in question
after reading some of the articles. I thought the question was
posed "What as a parent could I do?".
I have a 2 year old, I know it's a little early, which compelled
me to ponder "what would I do". I think I can still look back to my teen
years to find the answer ( may be able to do that in 15 years ?).
From observing my friend's past behavior and they're present state
of mind, allowed me to see some things which I would have missed
when I was that age. Time has a way of mellowing out the urgency found
in a teenager's life. It seems that those among my peer's who have
the most happy present life were those who had taken the road which
was the most 'right' for them. It also appears that those who
'did it for... ' are/had the most difficult time of it.
Each person has to do what is 'right' for them. I think the clue is
that we as parents, must support them in this matter. That does not
mean 'let them run wildin the streets'. If we can provide them with
the knowledge and guidance they need, they can then make they're own
choice happily.
Now for the nitty gritty stuff. If the 'unsigned' 18-year old poster
is happy with her lifestyle situation, more power to her. However,
at her age a ski weekend with the girls may turn into a
meeting with Mr. Right. A difficult choice will have to be made
here, no? I am assuming that rational thinking is still possible,
yet I have seem more than one of my friends waking up the
morning after with a scary feeling.
"Naw I can't get pregnant from just doing it once" is just another
one of those lies like the check ...
But nine month's later, Mr. Right is on his way south...
For as for the 'slut's ' described in her article, some of them
are very happily married to my friends (10+ years).
If your child is not comfortable with his/her sexuality and cannot
find help ( especially if you are not willing to see beyond yourself )
then somewhere down the road someone is going to 'pay the piper'
(shrink,lawer,etc).
Curtis (cjb@!rochester!ccice5!ccice2!)
Curtis (!rochester!ccice5!ccice2!cjb)
/*************************************************************************
| Disclaimer: I know nothing, I see less, and I learn from others...
|
| Therefore why would my employer want me representing them?
*************************************************************************/
P.S.
Oh yea, Then there's that girl I met not too long ago that
made turn off the lights and wait in the bathroom...
Riel Smit
>
>Your questions seem to indicate that a mother who does not believe in
>premarital sex will tell her daughter about sex. I am not sure she would.
>
who do not believe in premarital sex and who did/do tell their children
(and not just daugters) about sex.
By the way, must the mother tell the daughter and the father the son? My
parents both told me (at separate times) and each gave a different
perspective, which I think was valuable.
frye
parents. My parents beat me over the head with religion to
the point that I want nothing whatever to do with it now.
Especially if its used as an excuse to get around some job
someone just doesn't want to fool with in the first place.
When it comes to sex, I feel its a parents obligation to
tell their offspring everything they can including how to
prevent pregnancies. If a parent isn't open and honest, that
parent will eventually loose credibility. A parent can tell
a teenager that he/she would rather the kid doesn't have sex
outside marriage and still tell the whole 9 yards.
I have known parents to put their daughters on the pill when
someone in the neighborhood got raped too. Sure hate to bring
that topic up in this group, but facts is facts. There are
valid reasons for birth control (Pope be damned.) and a parent
should be a real parent and inform a kid of everything he/she
can. That includes family finances, politics, life insurance
sex, crime (both violent and none violent), and anything else
the kid should know. Too many people leave too much up to other
people when it comes to the education of their kids. Others think
stupid things like, "Oh, my little angel wouldn't do such a thing."
(Bet me!) I grew up with a few alledged little angels, so I know
better than that. Its your choice, be a good parent or a premature
grand parent. Religion has nothing to do with it unless the kid
is religious enough to follow its doctrines. I'm not because my
folks tried to scare hell out of me with it. I just treat people
as well as I can because I believe its the right way to be, and
people like it.
I've told a few people about this. I'll let you folks in on it too.
My parents are my friends now and have been since I was a teenybopper.
Before that, they had some wierd idea that I had to do everything they
told me to do. They'd force me to go to Bible school every Sunday.
One super cold Sunday I ended up freezing up a finger and my left eye,
and never made it to the church. What really bugged me was my folks tel-
ling me I had to go even though it was cold. They didn't want any excuses,
they just wanted me to go to church. I told them that sinse they'd lost
me an eye over their bull headedness, I wouldn't be going to church any-
more. There was nothing they could do after that to get me near a church
or do anything I didn't want to do. Now, I was 7 or 8 when I lost the use
of my eye. The summer after that, I went to church with my Grandad (Mom's
Dad, he was a Baptist Minister) when we visited him and Grandma in Missouri.
That bothered my folks a lot and they asked me why I wouldn't go with them.
I told 'em Grandad asked me to go and they never asked me anything. I had
never turned them down for anything else but Bible school and church. I
only turned them down once because it was so cold. That got me into a
world of trouble with them. I finally started to go and came back with a
frozen eye. Why should I listen to them anymore? They wouldn't listen to
me. I couldn't believe it the next summer. They'd enrolled me in a Bible
school over my summer vacation. Dad took me down there the first Sunday
and I sat there for a whole two minutes listening to a grumpy old fart
preach fire and brimstone at the top of his lungs to kids he didn't even
like. (He proved he didn't like 'em too. He was on us like ugly on a
gorilla for just being kids.) I climbed out a window and disappeared.
Well, my folks got mad and gave me hell. Next Sunday, Dad hauled me back
down there and I crawled out the window again. Weren't no way I was going
to stay in there. Its more fun outside. I got my tail warmed that time, but
next Sunday I did the window routine again. I missed it when some kid threw
a rock at that old fart and hit him up alongside his head(8-). My dad found
out from a neighbor about that. I told my Dad, "I tried to tell ya, but ya
wouldn't listen to me. I also told you I wasn't going to go down there.
Now do you believe me?" They tried a few more times to get me to go to
church and bible school, but I told them I had no desire to mess with that
or anything else related to it. Now, ya know why I believe in talking to
kids. Only thing is, you have to try to keep 'em alive long enough for
them to grow wise enough to understand you when you talk to them. That's
why I advise parents to only spank a kid if its absolutely called for.
For instance, you can't leta kid play in the street. His days are numbered
'til you get that point across. GET IT ACROSS! That goes for other places
that are just plain dangerous. Once they are old enough, listen to their
side of the story too. They do have one sometimes.
The part about getting a whippin' for not going to Sunday
school may just cause some of you folks to say, "Aha! That's
what I mean about spanking kids!" Well, it didn't bother me
much because, like I said. My folks didn't always know about
things I did that I would have had my butt spanked for. I
figure I'm up on 'em by at least 5 or 6 whippin's(8-). My
Dad got me once when I didn't deserve it and found out later
that he was wrong. He told me what I been tellin' you. He
missed me a couple of times he should have gotten me. Ummm,
at the time though, I didn't feel like tellin' him about
any of the times he'd missed me(8-). I mean, I ain't no fool.
See, I learned early that I shouldn't volunteer too much info.
Anyhow, be your kid(s) friend too if you can swing it. I
can't remember any of my childhood when I didn't like to have
friends, or my adulthood either. Friends tell you about things
and listen to you when you talk. Your kids will learn to respect
your attitudes if your a friend and a parent. Ummm, even your
sexual attitudes(8-). GET THOSE POINTS ACROSS TOO! You can do
it. I got faith in ya.
More mad ravings form,
Grizzly (who was a kid once).