SPOILER "New" diagrammed battle technique for 5.3 (5.2, 3.6?) rogue

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Mike Laman

Mar 21, 1986, 1:50:37 PM3/21/86
The following is a spoiler that explains a technique that I use to kill
Leprechauns and Nymphs in rogue version 5.3. I use this technique when
I don't think I can kill the beasty by ``better'' means. This technique
should work for 3.6 and 5.2, but we only have 5.3 running here so I can't
verify it.

Imagine we have a room that looks like this:


Let's pretend you would like to kill it by arrows/darts/shurikens and save
any "good" magic for later. Remember that this technique is also
good for Nymphs. Be warned, this technique uses information based on the
internals of rogue5.3. More specifically how monsters are advanced in movement
and how they are created. Don't read any farther if you want a sure fire
spoiler that works in this situation (and similar ones too,
of course). I have used this technique for over a year now and have told
this to other fellow roguers who use it now too.

We would like to kill the ``target'' monster with some projectiles,
but fear that it will hit us before we can kill it.
We know we could kill the target monster if 1) we have enough projectiles
and strength and 2) had a wimpy monster keeping the ``target'' monster
away from us. For example:


Now we could kill off the Leprechaun. Ok... How can we get in this position?
Obviously we would have to "bring" the wimpy monster into the room (or you could
create one, but you don't have any say on what type of monster you get).
We have gotten the target monster moved over next to us, too.

First we went and convinced a wimpy monster to follow us back to the room:


Now we get wimpy monster out of the doorway:


Move back toward the doorway:


Move in front of the doorway:


Ok, now we get the Leprechaun next to us by throwing a projectile at it.
If we want to use a bow, we would wield it first. Our screen looks like:


Now comes the $64,000 question. Which monster takes the roguer's place when I
move into the doorway?! It would be great if we knew for certain. This is
where some knowledge of rogue's internals comes into play.

First of all, rogue keeps a linked list of all monsters currently on the floor.
When you start a new level, the list contains all the monsters initially
created on the level. As time goes on while you play on the level, new
(wandering) monsters are created and added to the linked list of monsters.
the monsters get their turn to move. MONSTERS AT THE HEAD OF THE LIST MOVE
BEFORE MONSTERS FURTHER DOWN THE LIST. This implies that ALL monsters which
are created AFTER you start playing the level, will move BEFORE all monsters
created when the level was created. Look again at the last position:


If we are certain that the Emu was created AFTER the floor was generated
and that the Leprechaun was created WHEN the floor was generated,
then we are CERTAIN the the Emu will move BEFORE the Leprechaun
(since the Emu would be closer to the start of the monster list).
Leprechauns are NOT wandering monsters, in that they are only created when
a floor is generated or you make it (create scroll, polymorph).

Now you can understand the entire technique. When you come upon a Leprechaun
or Nymph (that you didn't create), remember where it is. Kill off the remaining
non-Leprechaun and non-Nymph monsters in the rooms. Look around for a wimpy
monster that you are sure was created after you started playing that level.
Take the wimpy monster over to the room where the target monster
is. Position yourself ``close enough'' to the door and awake the target
monster. Get into the doorway and kill off the target monster. Kill off the
wimpy monster. Use this same technique for all other Nymphs and Leprechauns
on the floor.

This is kind of a worst case scenario. You will find a number of variations
and small optimizations depending on the particular situation. I believe
you will find this technique quite useful and profitable. It is even more
profitable when you consider what would happen what would happen if you had
used this in games where you lost face to face with these beasties when
you could have instead been the winner. Then you would have had what you
lost PLUS your spoils for killing off the monster!


1. Pick wimpy monsters! You'll use up some hit points. You need a pretty
good feel for the "meanness" of monsters and how long you can ignore it's
hits. In other words, don't use a Troll :-).
2. Take into account your strength and the effectiveness of your projectiles,
so you have a good guestimate on how long it will take to kill off the
target monster.
3. Be sure the wimpy monster was created AFTER the target monster (that's
actually pretty easy).
4. Always keep in the back of you mind the possibility that a monster can
appear behind you. Try to minimize this. It has been VERY rare,
but possible.
5. If you're getting low on food, you may want to pass up a Leprechaun.
You might still want to go after a Nymph, since the Nymph may have
a piece of food. How lucky do you feel? Well, actually I could
tell a spoiler on food generation, but not here.
6. Minimize turns when the wimpy monster is beating you up. This may take
a little practice for some. It depends on how minimal you usually move.

Give yourself a little time to get this one down just right. I give you my
guarantee of complete satisfaction. If after 20 tries you are not completely
satisfied with this idea, then you still must be doing something wrong :-).
Impress your fellow rogue players. Be the first on your terminal to do it!
Have fun and enjoy your booty...

Mike Laman
UUCP: {ihnp4,sdcsvax}!ncr-sd!laman

Tom Tedrick

Mar 23, 1986, 4:54:31 AM3/23/86
>5. If you're getting low on food, you may want to pass up a Leprechaun.
> You might still want to go after a Nymph, since the Nymph may have
> a piece of food. How lucky do you feel? Well, actually I could
> tell a spoiler on food generation, but not here.

What? You lead me on like that and then leave me hanging?
PLEASE tell me the food spoiler!

I need all the help I can get since I have had a number of total
winners in 5.3 and now consider a game a failure if I don't get the
amulet, at least. And failure makes me angry! :-)


Andrew Lawson

Mar 24, 1986, 11:53:38 AM3/24/86
In article <4...@ncr-sd.UUCP> la...@ncr-sd.UUCP (Mike Laman) writes:
> Well, actually I could
> tell a spoiler on food generation, but not here.

Please do.

Drew Lawson
"Parts is parts." dr...@uky.csnet

Thomas Balough

Mar 26, 1986, 5:12:42 PM3/26/86
I'm a very new player of rogue/hack I haven't achieved higher than level 7
I prefer rogue because you are a much better fighter in rogue but the hack
-C / -F options are suitable too.

NE Way ... your trick for defeating a L is nice ... complicated ... but nice.
However, do you get the points for it?
When I ecounter a L in a one door room ... I back out one space and drop my
gold then sit on the door or one inside ( my gold is 2 - 3 spaces away )
Now it's hand to hand with the L ... he's dead meat if I have more than 8 hp
when he dies ... not only do I get his pot of gold, but the great news ...
welcome to level [present]+1 -more-
welcome to level [present+1]+1 -more-

Then I go back and pick up my (old) gold.

Does your method increase your experience two levels?

-balough (Thomas Balough) @ UCRiverside, Ca.

Mike Laman

Mar 27, 1986, 1:18:34 PM3/27/86

As my message said, my technique is for rogue version 5.3. It should work for
5.2 and 3.6 versions of rogue too. You are either confusing hack with rogue
(one can't drop gold in these versions of rogue) or are playing (heavily)
modified versions of rogue 5.3 (5.2 and 3.6). Just trying to quickly
clear up the confusion. Let's try not to flood net.games.rogue over this
misunderstanding. There are SOOOO many rogue (and rogue-like) versions,
that it will easily confuse novices. Even the ported versions to PCs
have some things altered too. Happy rogueing...

Mike Laman, System Roguer
UUCP: {ihnp4,sdcsvax}!ncr-sd!laman

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