Role Playing Games
phoenix
>>>Anybody out there interested in the Marvel Super Heroes game or the
>>>DC Heroes game?
>>
>
>One onther game to consider: Champions.
>
>Another SHRPG (SuperHero Role Playing Game) is: Villians and Vigilantees
> Gryphon
There is also "Champions"'s sister game, called something like "Golden
Age of Champions", which deals with the less ultra-high-powered heroes
of the '40's. I am uncertain whether Hero Games has released it yet,
but my fiance played-tested it at a north-eastern US sf-con a while ago.
The illustrations are by the fan-artist, Chris Cloutier.
--
The Phoenix
(Neither Bright, Dark, nor Young)
---"A man should live forever...or die trying."
---"There is no substitute for good manners...except fast reflexes."
Jim Gardner
>>>>Anybody out there interested in the Marvel Super Heroes game or the
>>>>DC Heroes game?
>>
>>One onther game to consider: Champions.
>>
>>Another SHRPG (SuperHero Role Playing Game) is: Villians and Vigilantees
>
>Age of Champions", which deals with the less ultra-high-powered heroes
>of the '40's. I am uncertain whether Hero Games has released it yet,
>but my fiance played-tested it at a north-eastern US sf-con a while ago.
> The Phoenix
The Golden Age of Champions is available, but it is not from Hero
Games. I wish I could tell you the company that produces it, but
I don't have my copy handy. The book may be of interest even to
those who aren't interested in role-playing, because it has a substantial
amount of source material on the late 30's/early 40's and the nature
of the world as displayed in comic books. For example, many of the
American superheroes of the time spent 1939-1941 fighting provocateurs
who wanted to draw the U.S. into the war. They couldn't fight Nazis,
because the U.S. was very scrupulously trying to avoid treating
Germany as an enemy; therefore, they fought British/French/Canadian
supervillains who wanted the U.S. to get involved. A strange time...at
least if "The Golden Age" book can be believed.
As an aside, I would encourage superhero comic fans to go out and buy
the Champions game, just to see a consistent world model for superheroes
and superpowers. It gives you a whole new perspective on comic book
conventions and cliches to see the genre captured so systematically.
It can help clarify why some comic book characters seem so hackneyed
(even when brand new), and why some seem to break existing molds.
Something to check out...
Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo
cs11...@ucla-cs.uucp
In article <25...@genat.UUCP> pho...@genat.UUCP () writes:
>>One onther game to consider: Champions.
>>
>>Another SHRPG (SuperHero Role Playing Game) is: Villians and Vigilantees
>There is also "Champions"'s sister game, called something like "Golden
>Age of Champions", which deals with the less ultra-high-powered heroes
>of the '40's. I am uncertain whether Hero Games has released it yet,
YES. I almost bought it at L.A.'s Orccon'86 week-two ago.
>but my fiance played-tested it at a north-eastern US sf-con a while ago.
>The illustrations are by the fan-artist, Chris Cloutier.
Champions and Golden Age of Champions are compatible with Justice, Inc.
and Danger International (a 30's cops and robbers and James Bond-type
games respectively). Hero Games claims ALL their games are compatible
includins Fantasy Hero. Anybody tried to mix fantasy with SF and SH?
Any comments?
And let's hear it for V&V!!! A game where NOBODY EVER dies and you move
your ENTIRE movement allowance at once (everyone is where they want to be
in the combat. EVERY ATTACK is from behind!:-). A game where the mix of
powers makes NO logical sense (a spell-using flying amoeba character,
a character with ice AND flame powers, other silly randomness). A game
where one can legally roll up a monstrously powerfull character and a
mostrously wimpy one (how does a ~1000 hp, ~5000 power, ~400-500 armour,
super-flight, power-blast and 20 points of invulnerability sound?That's
what you get if you happen to get more than one animal/plant powers whicich
add another 5-6 powers to the existant ones...). We had discarded a few
characters like that in the name of game balance as we have discarded the
characters who were even frailer than "normals"...
Actually, V&V (just like ANY OTHER GAME) can be fun when you have a
GOOD Game Master run a WELL THOUGHT OUT scenario for a group of
CO-OPERATIVE and CO-OPERATING GOOD players. Role Playing depends on
players, NOT on the Game System. It's nice when the System does not get
in the way of a long-term campaign game, but it's up to the Game Master
and the players to BALANCE the game's pluses and minuses.
(In fact I had an EXELLENT game of V&V at Orccon'86. Two and a half
hours of investigation and role-playing and 1/2 hour of combat at the
end. Was worth almost 1.5 levels of experience to my 4th level character,
mostly because there were only 6 of us where 10 were needed and we got
lucky... :@)
--
DISCLAMER: The opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of UCLA
or it's emloyees and faculty. The might not even be mine for all I know...
+---------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
| "VIOLATORS WILL BE TOAD !" |From the steam tunnels of UCLA
| The Dungeon Police | Oleg Kiselev, student again
+---------------------------------------+ ...{ WORLD }!ucla-cs!cs111olg
Jim Gardner
>Champions and Golden Age of Champions are compatible with Justice, Inc.
>and Danger International (a 30's cops and robbers and James Bond-type
>games respectively). Hero Games claims ALL their games are compatible
>includins Fantasy Hero. Anybody tried to mix fantasy with SF and SH?
>Any comments?
Yes, they are compatible and yes, we have tried it. The real trick
is that superheroes really are grossly more impressive than normals,
even normals who know magic. In terms of the Hero Games system, your
average superhero starts at about 250 points while Justice Inc.,
Fantasy Hero, and Danger International characters start at about 100
points. JI, FH, and DI characters have a bit of an edge, because they
get conventional weapons free, but superheroes are usually twice as
fast, a minimum of eight times as strong (on average), and equipped
with fancy powers like built-in energy blasts or flight or the ability
to turn desolid. Every superhero worth his/her salt has some way of
laughing off direct gunfire (either being dextrous enough to avoid
it or tough enough to take it). Of course, this is not true of anyone
with a claim of being normal. Sure, Danger International lets you
buy bulletproof vests, but they're bulky and obvious under most
circumstances; they slow you down, and they encourage head shots.
Given this reality, the GM must be very careful in mixing normal
player characters with superheroes. In any fight where a superhero
works up a sweat, a normal is in real trouble (unless equipped with
Champions style force fields or armour). In any fight that a normal
can handle, a superhero can clean up with one hand behind his cape.
This means that the GM has to figure out (a) how to equalize the
fight, or (b) how to run separate fights, one for supers and one
for normals. This takes a certain amount of ingenuity...not to
set up the situation, but to make sure that both the supers and
the normals voluntarily go where they're supposed to. What kind of
normal character would willingly leave the protection of a superhero
when he knows there are nasties around? And if it is obvious they
have to split up, why not split up into groups that have some supers
and some normals?
Of course, fighting isn't everything, and if the scenario can be run
without combat, the situation is more balanced. Normal characters
tend to have more skills than supers, so they are better investigators.
They also fit in better with everyday people, they have fewer
psychological or physical quirks, and they're better adjusted socially.
Sure, they may not be able to see through walls or break through doors,
but they can usually sneak around the corner quietly or pick the lock.
A group of really good players can work very well together. For those
who can play more than one character at once, giving everyone a super
and normal can be useful.
On the whole, however, a more homogeneous party works better in the
long run. We've had fun with mixing genres once in a while, but I
don't think it would work for extended periods. Has anyone out
there tried it?
cdri...@uokvax.uucp
I'd like to hear more about Jim Gardner's
(jaga...@watmath.UUCP) cross-genre gaming with the Hero System.
For anyone else interested in such, you might look into Champions
Organization Book III: The Blood provides an excellent link
between Fantasy Hero and Champions, and Justice Inc with a bit
more work. Danger International should also be possible,
although if your DI campaign doesn't have superheroes in it
you'll have to come up with a reason for having both that and
Champions. I.e. Parallel worlds (either DI agents investigating
a mysterious "Project Vulcan" or volunteering for it, that turns
out to be a crosstime gate, or The Blood or the Superheroes
stumble over the DI world), or taking care of the heroes, i.e.
you run JI in the 30s, DI in the 50s when there are no heroes,
and Champions with the Heroes emerging in the 70s. Conversely,
you could run Champions in the 40s and 50s, and have a reason for
them disappearing. The DI agents might even be investigating
why.
If the GM were good enough, I think this could make a great
scenario run in parallel, with one set of PCs in each genre,
running one genre in each session, but interweaving the
storylines to counterpoint each other. In particular, you have
to be skillful to be able to run events that will become history
already known by the future characters, without removing the
suspense or characters' free will.
I've wanted for a long time to run a DI scenario where one of the NPCs
claims to be a magician, and where the skeptical PCs keep thinking its
all done with tricks.
--Carl Rigney
USENET: {ihnp4,allegra!cbosgd}!okstate!uokvax!cdrigney
"The Krait never kills. But she sometimes lies." -- Krait
cca...@gitpyr.uucp
with mixing Champs with any of the other three games (Justice, Inc., Fantasy
Hero, and Danger International) and that is that Champs uses a slightly
different point scale than the others. Where Champs gives you 100 points as
a base the others only give you 75. Furthermore the value of disads in the
three lower base games is halved with each disad you take of a similar type
as opposed to with every other disad in Champs. Then too there are other
point differences. For example a competent DNPC in Champs has a base of
50 points while in the other games its 20 points. The most points a Champs
character can have before hitting diminshing returns is 290, in the other
games its 140. I've found that when mixing genres that Champs characters
shouldn't have more than 200 points, otherwise they'll blow everyone else
away. The other three games though are completely compatable and I often
allow my players to take skills/abilities from one for use in another if
its within conception and the genre.
--
Keith Conrad Vaglienti
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!ccastkv
In no way should my remarks be considered to reflect the opinions and/or
policies of the Georgia Institute of Technology nor GIT's Office of
Computing Services. Put another way, its-a not my bosses fault, monkey boy!
cdri...@uokvax.uucp
Unless I'm badly mistaken (and we all know that never happens :-) ),
_Golden Age of Champions_ is by Firebird, Ltd., the same company that
gave us the _Armory_. I agree with Jim Gardner's favorable review of
it - its a must for anyone running a campaign in the 30s/40s, and worth
looking at even if you're not running such a campaign.
Some people suggest that the Golden Age was a much better time for
superheroes, back when military technology didn't have 6000 round per
minute cannons and similar kill potential.
--Carl Rigney
USENET: {ihnp4,allegra!cbosgd}!okstate!uokvax!cdrigney
"Take THIS, Captain Nazi!"
"Tune in next week for the further adventures of... The Golden Agency!"
cs11...@ucla-cs.uucp
and frameworks for quite a while and have a few scenario ideas for that:
1) FRPG meets Danger International / 007 Spy System
Dimentional Gate zaps you into a Hi-Tech world of 1980's
You have to get back to your world while powerful spy
groups (and possibly The Mob) are trying to get something
you have away from you.
2) SFRPG meets FRPG
Your ship (crash-)lands on a unknown planet. The inhabitants
have the use of magic, you have your blast rifles....
3) DI meets SHRPG or SFRPG or FRPG
Your team is assigned to follow up on a series of mysterious
<somethings> and you find that you are facing <super powered
mutants/aliens from outer space/powerful magic of .....>
4) FRPG meets <SHRPG mixed with Toon/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles>
How come those goblins move SO FAST, fly, wear funny costumes,
punch SO HARD and fire Disintegration Rays at you?!
Meet.... The Goblin Defenders!
5) DI or FRPG or SHRPG or SFRPG meet....(drum roll)....
Cthulhu (gasps, then stunned silence)
Yes, yet ANOTHER bunch of suicidal/homicidal maniacs has
decided to tempt fate and bring a dreaded Elder God back...
You are going to die stopping them... or just die!
Actually, I would greatly appreciate some accounts of REAL games run in a
cross-system environments by competent GMs with co-operating players....
--
DISCLAMER: The opinions expressed above are not affiliated with UCLA.
+---------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
| "VIOLATORS WILL BE TOAD !" |From the steam tunnels of UCLA
| The Dungeon Police | Oleg Kiselev, student again
+---------------------------------------+ ...{ WORLD }!ucla-cs!oac6.oleg
Jim Gardner
>I have been looking forward to a possible compaign that mixes systems
>and frameworks for quite a while and have a few scenario ideas for that:
>Actually, I would greatly appreciate some accounts of REAL games run in a
>cross-system environments by competent GMs with co-operating players....
Okay, a thumbnail sketch of our most recent cross-over.
Our group runs in several different campaigns. Essentially, each
person in the group is GM for one campaign; we meet weekly, and alternate.
Usually one or two of the campaigns are in hiatus because the GM is
too busy to get something together, but anyway...
The campaigns:
One Justice Inc. campaign that takes place in the year 2059,
post-economic collapse.
One Fantasy Hero campaign taking place in Harn (classic medieval
setting).
Two Champions campaigns taking place in modern day (mostly local
environments).
A Danger International campaign that hops through dimensions via
naturally occurring "gates" (somewhat based on Farmer's "World of
Tiers").
We established the following basic plot:
In the year 2059, a mad scientist type would create a machine
that could punch out artificial gates between dimensions. The
JI heroes would follow the mad scientist through such a gate (either
accidentally or intentionally). They would reach the Fantasy
Hero world. From that point onward, they would pop from gate
to gate in an attempt to get back to their own time and place.
If they captured the mad scientist, they would attempt to use
his machine (which he had with him) to get back; if they didn't,
they would eventually find a gate he had made and go on to the
next world. They would hit the Champions campaigns after the
Fantasy Hero one. The characters from the Danger International
campaign could be used as needed, since they understood gate
travel. Also a number of stock villains from the Danger
International campaign were free to appear, because they would
naturally be eager to have the ability to make artificial gates
instead of being restricted to natural ones. The whole thing
would end up with the 2059 characters returning home and mopping
up anything that needed it.
GMs were free to do anything within that framework. We spent
about two four-hour sessions in each locale. The GMs also
discussed what kind of adventures they were going to conduct
in very general terms, so that each section would have a
different feel. (Example: One GM said, "I'm going to play it
for laughs." Another said, "I'm going for a big Dante's
Inferno thing.")
That's the basic set up. If enough people want details of the actual
adventures, I'll post them.